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View Full Version : How Far Do You Push Your DEMO Mowers?


TheKingNJ
10-18-2004, 08:13 PM
Well today I demo'd an EVERRIDE WARRIOR.
I was nice to it at first.
Didn't like it much compared to my Ferris is3000.
They my buddy though it would be a good idea to see how it worked as a brush hog.

So The deck belt poped off, burnt a little, so we fixed it, then it poped off again, the poor design of the idle pully with no belt springs back and rubbs on the deck guard causing sparks and a very annoying noise.
so we fixed that and then there was much play in the belt so we figured it's better off just bring it it back to the dealer as is. also with one of the grooves worn out of the belt it would not stay on the pully anyway.
As a result of the pully hitting the deck guard, the pullie grinded away the top ridge, and grinded a little hole in the deck guard.
THINK MY DEALER WILL BE MAD TOMMAROW WHEN I BRING IT BACK?

Overall Review of the mower besides that
bad
poor traction.
Hard to turn.
No gas gadgues.
narrow wheel base
don't like the deck lift and hight control
stiff ride
poor belt design
very loud.
Back fired when shut off, this mower only had 19 hours on it.
good
I like how the parking break is built into the controls, kick in when they are open.

^ all of this is a result of being compaired with a Ferris is3000 with same 25 hp kawi motor.

Aside from my problems with it wich i will admit was a result of abuse, i was not thrilled with the mower and do not plan on buying one.

Next plan on demoing a toro

TheKingNJ
10-18-2004, 08:17 PM
more pics of the poor belt design

xcopterdoc
10-18-2004, 08:43 PM
Yup... he'll be pissed! And you all wonder why your dealer doesnt demo mowers, doesnt give out "loaners" or charges to do so. Go figure.....

lawnman_scott
10-18-2004, 08:46 PM
When we hear about some 16 year old kid cant get a dealer to give him a demo and he cant figure why, maybe you can explain to him why they will tend to shy away from a teen.

Flex-Deck
10-18-2004, 08:52 PM
Another example. Thanks Brad

tonygreek
10-18-2004, 09:09 PM
So when you say "which I'll admit was a result of abuse", are you just admitting it to us OR the dealer?

With the traffic on this site, I'm surprised what people will "admit". Think any of the shop's buddies are on here? Nahhhh.... I wouldn't expect a bill.

Tony,
Nowhere near New Jersey

TheKingNJ
10-18-2004, 09:19 PM
Well not that I will be blame placing tomarrow morning but the my buddy is a very good friend of the owner of the dealer that i demo'd the mower. He even had the bright idea of putting a FOR SALE sign on the mower and putting it infront of his house so when the owner of the shop left his work and passed his house he would see it.(we ruled that out as a bad idea becasue he was see that field being mowed, not like he wouldn't next time he drove buy.) We will ofcouse offer to pay for the belt that was desrtoyed and the pully if needed to be replaced or anything elce. I've spent my share of thousands of dollars there.
But anyway, what in the world does this have to do with demoing mowers out to teens?

Envy Lawn Service
10-18-2004, 09:25 PM
All other things aside.... did you ever stop to think that maybe the tension pulley might be flipped over center? Could have been that way to start with or could have sprung over center when the belt hopped off.

You should take a second look at it and the belt routing before returning it.

TheKingNJ
10-18-2004, 09:33 PM
yeah i examined it well, i'm not sure.
I'm no mechanic but i'm no idiot either.
something was defiantly not right with it. But i sill don't like the design, I think that the pulley should not be able to touch any other part of the mower no matter what is messed up with it. I'm really not to familiar with repairing mowers other that my ferris and that is a whole different design.

Turf Medic
10-18-2004, 09:34 PM
Well not that I will be blame placing tomarrow morning but the my buddy is a very good friend of the owner of the dealer that i demo'd the mower. He even had the bright idea of putting a FOR SALE sign on the mower and putting it infront of his house so when the owner of the shop left his work and passed his house he would see it.(we ruled that out as a bad idea becasue he was see that field being mowed, not like he wouldn't next time he drove buy.) We will ofcouse offer to pay for the belt that was desrtoyed and the pully if needed to be replaced or anything elce. I've spent my share of thousands of dollars there.
But anyway, what in the world does this have to do with demoing mowers out to teens?

Quite possibly the fact that your profile lists your age as 19, even though you are the ripe old age of 20 :D.

I think if you are going to demo any thing you run the demo like you owned the item. The question you have to ask yourself is "if I had paid for this mower already would I be treating it like this". I know it's fun to give it the acid test, but IMO when the belt came off the first time you should have known that it was not designed to do what you wanted it to do, time to end the demo and return to dealer.

Your justification, "I've spent my share of thousands of dollars there" is bs, if one of your customers has you do a several thousand dollar install, you obviously won't have a problem if their kid decides to paint the side of your truck, or abuses a piece of your equipment.

Flex-Deck
10-18-2004, 09:41 PM
yeah i examined it well, i'm not sure.
I'm no mechanic but i'm no idiot either.
something was defiantly not right with it. But i sill don't like the design, I think that the pulley should not be able to touch any other part of the mower no matter what is messed up with it. I'm really not to familiar with repairing mowers other that my ferris and that is a whole different design.

Whoa - It is obvious you are not a mechanic. I would also imagine that the tighner pulley-drive pulleys on the deck you demo'd are very similar to ferris, and all mower decks are basically the same. They all have a back bend pulley that maintains tension on the belt as it drives the spindle, wheather it be three spindles or two.

When you get to be 30 - maybe 40 years of age, you will look back at the demo you did and say "Wow - I was really nieve, and it was stupid to abuse the mower the way I did"

I think most of us that are over 30 can say we did some real stupid things at the age of 20 (I am 58) and that is all I have to say.

Thanks Brad

TheKingNJ
10-18-2004, 09:44 PM
Your justification, "I've spent my share of thousands of dollars there" is bs, if one of your customers has you do a several thousand dollar install, you obviously won't have a problem if their kid decides to paint the side of your truck, or abuses a piece of your equipment.
wow before i was debating writing "I've spent my share of thousands of dollars there" does not justify it but i though it would have been a little more incriminating on my behalf.
but what ever, i'll pay for what ever needed and everything done with.
i knew this thead would get you guys all hot and i knew i would here just one more reason these stupid kids shouldn't be in the business. And it's not like i jumped the damn thing or took it mudbogging, i used it for cutting grass, that field there is no rocks, stups or ruts. once again not to justify anything i did.
But anyway, next i'm off to a toro with a turbo force.
I gotta find another mower to buy for the spring.

TheKingNJ
10-18-2004, 09:46 PM
Whoa - It is obvious you are not a mechanic. I would also imagine that the tighner pulley-drive pulleys on the deck you demo'd are very similar to ferris, and all mower decks are basically the same. They all have a back bend pulley that maintains tension on the belt as it drives the spindle, wheather it be three spindles or two.


Thanks Brad

Jeeze i'm going to be Up here all night defending myself.
No The tighner pully on my ferris is verry different then what is on the everride, would you like me to take a picture??

Flex-Deck
10-18-2004, 09:51 PM
Yes - I would like very detailed picture of both mower set-ups. Thanks Brad

all ferris
10-18-2004, 09:54 PM
Are you in the market for a new mower or are you demoing the mower just because? If I was that dealer I would have made you sign something saying that if you broke it you bought it. You should have used the mower for it's intended purpose, finish cutting and not brush hog. I have seen the dealer I use tell customers to get out of his building for stunts such as this. I think you used bad judement.

Flex-Deck
10-18-2004, 10:01 PM
Are you in the market for a new mower or are you demoing the mower just because? If I was that dealer I would have made you sign something saying that if you broke it you bought it. You should have used the mower for it's intended purpose, finish cutting and not brush hog. I have seen the dealer I use tell customers to get out of his building for stunts such as this. I think you used bad judement.

Amen!!!!!!!! Thanks Brad - PS - Still waiting for the pics of the pulleys.

TheKingNJ
10-18-2004, 10:16 PM
no i am intending on buying another mower, i was going to take them tomarrow but i will leave the yankee game and do it now.
do you think they cut those socks into the field or they use something to stipe the grass afterwards?

TheKingNJ
10-18-2004, 10:28 PM
Flex deck, you should know what your talking about before you doubt me.
notice the MAJOR DIFFERENCES betweens the systems that ferris uses and everride.

Flex-Deck
10-18-2004, 10:39 PM
Flex deck, you should know what your talking about before you doubt me.
notice the MAJOR DIFFERENCES betweens the systems that ferris uses and everride.

Don't patronize me: -
1. You do not even have a belt on the ferris, so what does that show
2. It is obvious from the 3rd picture that you ran either a branch or some sort of debris thru the evenride belt - because it got twisted and the flat side was running thru some of the v pulleys (note the frayed back side. - You must remember that you are 20 - I am 58 - I will tell you the same thing I told my kids. You probably will never do anything that I have not alreay done or thought of doing. I have had belts do the same thing, and it usually happens in rough circumstances - like mowing tree branches and tall stuff that allows debris to get into the belt system.

TheKingNJ
10-18-2004, 10:48 PM
Whoa - It is obvious you are not a mechanic. I would also imagine that the tighner pulley-drive pulleys on the deck you demo'd are very similar to ferris, and all mower decks are basically the same. They all have a back bend pulley that maintains tension on the belt as it drives the spindle, wheather it be three spindles or two.

Thanks Brad

ANYWAY my point is my ferris system is much different then the everride warrior. Are you still going to disagree and still tell me that I wrong? and how you would imagine that they are very similar?
I would think with you being 58 and having sooo much more life expenence then me you would know that you should know what you are talking about before you speak.

anyway. now I didn't want the bagger on, so they pulled it off and left the bagging motor on? I noticed that belt poped off. is they bad to just leave the mower unit on.

dkeisala
10-18-2004, 10:52 PM
A mower is not intended to be a brush hog, as I'm sure you know. So why attempt, after treating it as a brush hog, to explain the consequential breakdowns as being related to poor design rather than your poor judgement as to the proper use of the piece of equipment that was loaned to you (and blatantly abused) as a demo?

Flex-Deck
10-18-2004, 10:55 PM
It is obvious that one should not even try to discuss - defend - propose -
argue - try to explain - assess - or dissect the ingrained attutude of nievity.

ScCo
10-18-2004, 11:02 PM
perosnally I don't see the need to demo machines past the point of which I use the machines I own.

Demoing a machine is supposed to show you how well the machine can function in the properties that you maintain. Not to see what you can put one through before it breaks.

paying to fix what you break isn't really the point. the point is you shouldn't abuse something (especially that you don't own) just to see how much it can take before it breaks.

impactlandscaping
10-18-2004, 11:47 PM
When I demo a piece of equipment, I treat it like my own, because I have got some really good deals on demo items over the years. Would you go test drive a new $35K truck and take it mudbogging and drag racing and then go sign the papers to buy it??

lawnman_scott
10-19-2004, 12:00 AM
i knew this thead would get you guys all hot and i knew i would here just one more reason these stupid kids shouldn't be in the business.
No actually I was thinking about when a kid comes on here and says he cant get any respect from a dealer, wont even talk to them about a mower much less a demo. What do you think your dealer will say if a 17y/o kid comes in next week asking about a demo? Do you do alot of bush hogging with your Ferris?

Mowman29
10-19-2004, 12:44 AM
We have and IS1000Z and it been in the shop 8 times this year. Mind you when we started the season it already had 20 hours on it. before it got to 45 hours it was in the shop. The hydraulic pumps started to fail. They replaced one of them $1200. and a week trying to get parts. got it back ran it for 15 hours the other one broke and shot oil everywhere. The dealer replaced both pumps this time totaling $2800. Then parts all over the mower was braking rollers on the deck. choke cables went thru 3 this year alone need a 4th. Front tires both split in half 2 weeks apart. Then this is when I got mad the spindles on the mower deck froze up I had proper maintenance on greasing the mower weekly. at this point I had 125 hours on this mower. in the shop again all under the 2 year warranty.they had a bad design is what ferris said about the spindles they replaced them for free another $800 worth of parts. they are going to replace them again this December with the new design. They loaned us a an IS3000 with a 27hp Kohler. Ever time we had it in the shop. We put 75 hrs on that mower and it used less fuel and we had no problems at all with it but it was sometimes under powered to mow thick grass. Our 25hp Kaw. has more power than the 27hp Kohler so he mower Would not even be able to keep the mower running. He just plain abused the Demo unit he got this job and then asked the dealer to demo something and he just plain broke a new machine so he wouldn't't break his. You see how dumb he is he ask if the Boston baseball field was rest riped to put the soxs in the infield after it was mowed. Not a Pro a young kid trying to make all our lives harder by under cutting prices and taking on jobs he can't do without tearing up DEMO's !!!!! :realmad: :realmad: :realmad: :realmad: :realmad: :realmad: :realmad:

sawman65
10-19-2004, 07:08 AM
us dealers are listing,
i dont demo or loan mowers anymore.i rent them. with the rent deducted from
the mower sale price.

J.Gordon
10-19-2004, 09:43 AM
I take care of my dealerís equipment, as I would like them to do with mine. When my dealer gave me a Super Z to demo, I brought it back with both tanks full and clean. They didnít have to do anything else to it to sell it or another demo. If or when you noticed any problems with the machine, you should have repaired it yourself or called the dealer and not operated it any more!
This kind of stuff hurts everyone! If I were a dealer and anyone did this to my equipment they would not be back in my shop again, and I would make a special point to inform the other dealers in the area.
Remember do unto others as you would have them do unto you!

Gravely_Man
10-19-2004, 10:01 AM
When I demo something I do tend to push it to see it limits but I by no means abuse the piece of equipment. I also return all demos cleaned up and full of gas for the next person. Using a finish mower as a bush hog is just a bad idea. Hopefully this will not hurt others in your area who would like to demo equipment from this particular dealer.


Gravely_Man

jsaunders
10-19-2004, 01:49 PM
NJ King- Why not get another Ferris? Are you not happy about the cut?
About cutting the tall grass/ I would have tried it as well. I cut acouple of over grown jobs every year and i want a mower that could handle it as well. Now if you were really beating it- it's on your conscience. Joel

MMLawn
10-19-2004, 02:00 PM
One thing I have learned as I have gotten older and that is that life is a fulltime learning gig. I look back on stuff I did when I was in my teens, twenties and even thirty and think how stupid! Now that I am in my forties I'm sure at 50 & 60 and look back and say the same about some of the things I did in my forties too. ;)

TheKingNJ
10-19-2004, 04:14 PM
NJ King- Why not get another Ferris? Are you not happy about the cut?
About cutting the tall grass/ I would have tried it as well. I cut acouple of over grown jobs every year and i want a mower that could handle it as well. Now if you were really beating it- it's on your conscience. Joel

I Love my ferris and would like to get another one. I went well out of my way to get it. Why i am venturing into other mowers is because the closest ferris dealer a an hour away from me, bobcat, everride, toro and alot of other mowers are 1000 bucks cheaper and i don't have much experence on other mowers then an eXmark or a Ferris so I want to look around before I buy my next mower.

Yes i filled it to the brim with gas and cleaned the mower out nicely.

lawncutr
10-19-2004, 04:43 PM
Don't be "that guy" who goes full bore with the mower really low into really tall grass and expect the mower to take it......

lafrance4078
10-19-2004, 06:53 PM
I am going to buy a new mower this fall. I have gone to all of the local dealers and looked at their mowers. I have tested each one on the dealers property. This way I can see which ones I liked better. I am now completly ready to buy. I have called my top two choices and set up a side by side demo on one of my accounts property. I told both dealers what I was doing and they both were excited to be able to see how their mower stacked up against another brand. I then called my customer and made sure that it would be ok to do the demo on her property. She also was very excited to see where her money goes that she pays me. Long story short, both dealers will be present for the demo. I told them that I will be treating there mowers as I treat mine. They both are still very excited about the demo. I feel like there is no need to kill these mowers on some land that I don't mow everyday. If I have a rough property to mow, I use my oldest easiest to fix mower on it. I would never take a brand new mower out to mow it. I hope that this demo goes as well as I think it will. I will be sure to let you all know.

energy
10-19-2004, 10:02 PM
THEKINGNJ, you are a chump. That is a brand new mower that you pretty much DEMOlished. How would you feel if i did that to your ferris? You are the reason that these dealers are so uptight about letting people demo their products. So what if you intend on replacing the worn out items? I would back hand you if you ever disrespected one of my items like that. Grow up Chump.

Smalltimer1
10-19-2004, 11:44 PM
When I've tested machines, I run them in the exact manner that I normally run mine. However, since I am in to repair more than mowing, I will say that the NJ kid is plain tearing up something that ain't his.

I'm only 18, and I try to treat my fellow man as I would like to be treated. I have earned a reputation for quality work and when I price something, I am taken seriously. The Ford dealer about 2 weeks ago let me test a 2004 F-250 XL Power Stroke for 2 weekends (a $30,000 truck)--why did they let me? Because #1, they know I take care of my truck and they know that I will take care of theirs. #2, because I needed a truck to pull my trailers around with while my old F-250 was getting a new cam, lifters, and pushrods. I do not goof around like most teenagers do.

I have several credentials that will help explain my background.

1. Dekalb Agricultural Accomplishment Achievement Award, 2004.
2. 2nd place State Star in Agribusiness for NCFFA 2004.
3. 2nd place State Ag Mechanics Proficiency 2004.
4. Eagle Scout, certified 5/26/2003

When I take on a job, I take them seriously. When I borrow a tool or piece of equipment, I treat it like my own. I don't play when it comes to machinery or business.

MOW ED
10-20-2004, 08:40 AM
I must admit that I was so excited about the speed of the Hustler Super Z that I did some rear wheel stands out on the street. Man she comes down hard on those front casters. I have a video of it and I will try and attatch it here second thought, its too big for here.

Pecker
10-20-2004, 10:26 AM
I just think its a shame that someone would do that to a demo machine. That's exactly why I would never buy a demo. In fact, I try to stay away from used equipment anyway for the same reason. Its no fair to the dealer and really really not fair to the unlucky soul who thinks he's getting a good deal on that demo mower. That mower will probably be a curse to whoever ends up with it. But don't worry. . .one of these days you'll have to answer for what you did to that mower and it ain't going to be pretty. Count on it.

MOW ED
10-20-2004, 06:37 PM
:cry: :realmad: :cry:


:cool2: You should see what I do with the Exmark demo Peck-r. I'll send you a video of that one too if you want........ :waving:

all ferris
10-20-2004, 07:19 PM
Don't patronize me: -
1. You do not even have a belt on the ferris, so what does that show.


Flex, The guy is right in saying that these are 2 different setups.

There is a belt on the ferris. The ferris setup is less cluttered and less complicated

Flex-Deck
10-20-2004, 07:28 PM
THEKINGNJ, you are a chump. That is a brand new mower that you pretty much DEMOlished. How would you feel if i did that to your ferris? You are the reason that these dealers are so uptight about letting people demo their products. So what if you intend on replacing the worn out items? I would back hand you if you ever disrespected one of my items like that. Grow up Chump.

I agree 100% energy - then there are posts saying the ferris is some special arrangement - bull - mower systems that run 2 or 3 blades all AND I MEAN all have a tightner system on the back (Non power side) with a tension sysem, (normally springs) and if the run a V belt, I would almost bet my house that the tightner pulley is flat, as the V runs in the spindle drive pulleys. They probably even have one more flat for the back side to actually run one of the spindles and keep the belt on over 180 degrees to eliminate slippage.

Please, give me a break - I am not stupid, although once in a while I say stupid things. this thread is not one of them.

Belt systems are simple - Put the pulleys in line, keep the belt tight, and DO NOT LET A 19 YEAR OLD BASHER DEMO THE UNIT> Thanks Brad

ace56320
10-20-2004, 07:39 PM
I am a dealer, and a customer of mine was having carb issuses with his exmark yesterday and asked if he could use our demo. I said ok. when an employee brought it back to me today the qds dump bagger was badly bent. this could only happen for flat out abuse! what should i do now? call the owner and tell him he need to fork out 300 bucks to fix the machine? people like this do make it hard to justify demoing units. (it also looked like it was half covered in mud ):angry:

Flex-Deck
10-20-2004, 07:49 PM
I am a dealer, and a customer of mine was having carb issuses with his exmark yesterday and asked if he could use our demo. I said ok. when an employee brought it back to me today the qds dump bagger was badly bent. this could only happen for flat out abuse! what should i do now? call the owner and tell him he need to fork out 300 bucks to fix the machine? people like this do make it hard to justify demoing units. (it also looked like it was half covered in mud ):angry:

Thanks Ace - I will not group age groups as this thread has 17 yr. olds that seem responsible and 42 yr olds that may not be.

All I can say is that I would bet that the abusers of demos also probably throw their beer and pop cans and McDonalds cups and French Fry Containers, and thier Box -Flip Top Camel Cig Packs in the ditch while driving down the highway. That gives us people that care about our mowing jobs something to pick up. YEH _ YEH _ YEH - JUst can not imagine mowing without having to carry a large container for all THAT TRASH.

Tonyr
10-20-2004, 09:01 PM
Interesting thread!


I personally believe a demo is a must before buying a machine of this/these values, I demoed a Hustler super Z, Ferris IS3000 and Toro Z588E which I bought. I asked Toro for a 3 day demo.....I had to promise that I would purchase if nothing went wrong, so I did....I demoed this mower on the roughest job I would take on, no probs! (long grass, dry and wet)

I sent a report back to Toro about what I had done and how it went, they said keep it for another few days then after a dealer checked how I was looking after it, I reported again, and though it had a couple little mechanical bugs they fixed free, I bought it and have never been happier and you can see by pics on my web site I do some rough work.

I had a new machine to demo, i bought it, and to this day except for some branch scratches on the deck looks brand new, bought last feb.

In saying that, these mowers are not slashers/bush hogs regardless of whether they can or not, so we can't expect dealers to keep doing warrantee work if we are mistreating mowers like this. Common sense....

I can understand dealers not lending machines, catch 22, it costs them yet I wouldn't buy a mower I couldn't demo....damned if ya do, damned if ya don't...

At the end of the day, anything you don't own should be treated very respectively, dealers should impose that any damage other than design faults be repaired at the expense of the client. Abusing demoes and loaners is just disrespectful that stuffs it up for all of us in the long run.

Just my opinion of course....if ya demo a z500 series Toro and it breaks/ fails, please let us know....these are well built tough machines.

Pecker
10-20-2004, 10:32 PM
:cry: :realmad: :cry:


:cool2: You should see what I do with the Exmark demo Peck-r. I'll send you a video of that one too if you want........ :waving:

Might as well. Lets see it.

MOW ED
10-21-2004, 07:34 AM
This is a thread that really gets people going, I am not a person who abuses equipment. So anyone doesn't get the wrong idea, I guess I will elaborate on my experience. No I didn't do anything to an Exmark. We sure get excited here sometimes.
I was completely excited and impressed with the Hustler Super Z. I was amazed that the machine had so much power. It was like driving a heavily built go cart on steroids. I take pictures of all demos that I use so I have reference. I mowed lots of grass with that machine and was very impressed with it (as a matter of fact I wrote quite a review here). Now after drivin a Walker for 7 years, I was amazed at the fact that I could pull the sticks and the thing did a wheelie. I never thought that to be possible. It was the little boy in me that really thought it was cool. Now I didn't go and bounce the thing down the road or take it for a swim, I did 2 wheelies. That machine was returned to the dealer as clean and solid as I got it and I even told him how I was impressed that it could do a wheelie because it was so powerful.
As far as abusing equipment goes, my intent was not to break that mower, and amazingly enough they made the thing out of steel and iron and not glass so it is fine. That mower and company sold itself to me because it is a wel built machine. Had something went wrong with it, I would have paid for it but it certainly was not my intention to break the mower and I didn't.
So my friends just learn that you can get the wrong idea by what is written here, sometimes it is fun to yank someones bobber just to get a reaction. You have to be responsible for your actions, simple enough and to maliciously abuse something is wrong.
Now this 42 year old has to go and be responsible and get to work again.

grass_cuttin_fool
10-21-2004, 08:02 AM
I wouldnt have tried to use a demo to bush hog over grown grass. When someone abuses equipment like this ( no matter the age) it makes it hard for everyone to get a demo. And think about it like this, the dealer is going to be out of some money for repairs and maybe sell this mower at a discount. See how good you feel about it when a customer cheats you out of your hard earned money, doesnt seem so nice does it?

John Gamba
10-21-2004, 08:29 AM
Whoa -
I think most of us that are over 30 can say we did some real stupid things at the age of 20 (I am 58) and that is all I have to say.

Thanks Brad

Amen to that Brad.
John

qualitylandscaping
10-21-2004, 08:48 AM
I think you should make the mower perform in the conditions you will need it to perform. If you want to use it as a brush hog fine, just treat the mower like you would if you owned it.

Our fire dept. got a 6wheel amphibious vehicle to try out last year. The dealer said beat the thing to pieces if you want to. We had it knocking over small trees, breaking through ice on the water, running over stumps, rocks, etc. Climbing huge hills. Taking really sharp turns going full speed.

If your going to buy a product, you need to make sure it will stand up to long term use :drinkup: