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Green Dreams
10-24-2004, 11:48 AM
I set up an internet ad on Google (adwords.com) awhile back. You can have your ad pop up on the right side in a limited area and pay 5 cents a click. I even used some guerilla tactics I learned from Mega Lawn Co.

You will be asked to put in keywords. Lawn, Lawn Care, Mowing in "my town", are some examples. I don't mow, but you see where I'm going.

Mega Lawn Co's ads pop up everywhere. Enter a competitor and, Wham...there they are. So I took their startegy and used "Mega Lawn Cos" as some of my keywords. You can even monitor the results. One fella told me how he found me..."I just moved here and was looking up Mega Lawn Co and I saw the negative websites on them. Then, I saw your ad, so I called ..."

Now, I'm not setting the world on fire, but I have gotten 4 customers from it. Those four customers cost me about $15 total. My old boss used to say he paid $100 a customer....

Rex Mann
10-24-2004, 03:29 PM
I do the same thing with google adwords. I use my competitors names, vendors names and anything you can think of. We have about 80 keywords right now.

Peace,


Rex

ArizonaPavers.Com (http://arizonapavers.com)

tonygreek
10-24-2004, 04:33 PM
Rex and Green,

I just wanted to make sure you are fully aware that if the company names you are using are trademarked, you are opening yourself up for infringement. At this point in time, Google leaves it up to self-policing, and it requires a trademark owner to bring it to their attention, but I would not be surprised to see it become a bigger legal issue, as has been seen with Meta Tags.

Tony

Rex Mann
10-24-2004, 06:59 PM
Yeah, I already had to deal with HD on an issue. And, they were none-to-pleased!

Peace,

Rex

ArizonaPavers.Com (http://arizonapavers.com)

pilotcoplawnboy
10-25-2004, 08:42 PM
Rex Mann, I noticed what appears to be a small grammatical error on your website.

Please contact us if you have any quetions or complete our Free Estimate and we weĚll call you soon to discuss your needs.

tonygreek
10-25-2004, 09:13 PM
as well as the intro of the About Us:

"RM Stonescaping located in Phoenix, Arizona." throw an "is" in there.

also, you might think about disabling that right click disable script you've got in there that shows us the contact info for ClearImaging, assumedly your web designer. not only are those things annoying, which while you may want to prevent images being taken (which is easily worked around btw), you are preventing people from opening one of your links in another window. many of your visitors will try this and instead be forced to view an ad directing us to who built your site.

btw, very nice site.

which "very small liberal arts college in ohio" are you a product of?

Tony

mdvaden
10-27-2004, 01:12 AM
There is no danger on the trademark names as keywords.

Because they are totally hidden in an archive of keywords that is concealed.

They should not be popping up in the actual ads.

tonygreek
10-27-2004, 10:05 AM
Mdvaden, "no danger on the trademark names as keywords" is absolutely 100% false. I'd be curious to know how you've formulated that thought?

They are not totally hidden and although technically do not show up in the actual ads, they are the precipitator of the ad being generated. Totally hidden would not allow say, "Anderson Windows" to search for their product on google and pull up, say "Marvin Windows". Product features or services, by generic name are different than searching for specific trademarked names. If you do not have an actual positive business use ("fair use" or permission) to use the trademarked name, you are guilty of infringement.

Google and Overture do not police this, yet, and it falls on the trademark owner to seek action. The ironic thing about this is that it actually increases the likelyhood that you are sued. Google and Overture have simply removed the burdon of trademark enforcement and handed it over to the trademark owner's lawyers. Which would you rather have? An email from Google telling you they've removed the keyword, or a TRO from a court and a subpoena calling you in for your lawsuit?

Tony

mdvaden
10-27-2004, 09:02 PM
It looks like someone could only access trademark names only randomly, hit or miss, one ad at a time by trying to view the ad page source.

Google is requesting key "WORDS" not key titles. That can alter advertising significantly.

For example, if Collier Arbor Care registered that name, it appers to be no problem to list 3 individual words:

"Collier's Arbor Care"
"Collier's Tree Service"
"Collier's Tree"

Rex Mann
10-27-2004, 09:28 PM
Tony,

Ashland University BSBA in Hotel Restaurant Management.

I appreciate the heads up on the spelling and grammatical issues.

As far as the Clear Imaging goes, I pay nothing for hosting my site and I paid nothing to have it built. One of my vendors paid for it and also pays the hosting fee. So, that right click thing does not bother me.

Peace,

Rex

ArizonaPavers.Com (http://arizonapavers.com)

mdvaden
10-27-2004, 11:15 PM
Looks like you did a few things to the site since the last time I was there.

I'm wondering if my browser if being funky, due to some symbols in text. Does your web person convert Word docs with a Mac computer?

Also, read your "contact" box text again.

I think I'm down to one misspelled word on my home page now. There's few on the other pages and in advice, but irrelevant considering the volume of text I have.

Every time I have 3 words corrected, it seems I've tossed 5000 words on with a few more slight errors.

I think by Articles page alone has about 30,000 words or more. I read it, and if it sounds good, I just go with it unless something jumps right out.

Like your picture on there. I had good results in newspaper ads when another arborist and I teamed up and did one ad together with both of our photos. My carpet cleaning business friend has his photo in his website - I liked the look, so added myself on my home page in an informal setting.

Next spring, I plan to redo my resume page to include a photo while I'm wearing a suit. And I'm going to do the resume totally different. I've been in this so long, I probably can get by with 3 short paragraphs.

Nice suit - Men's Wearhouse?

tonygreek
10-27-2004, 11:35 PM
Rex: For free, i'd probably learn to live with that too.

As for Ashland, you can imagine how exciting it was to get stranded their one night with no hotel/motels available. I was a freshman in highschool, and the familiy truckster died at the nearby rest area, towed to a garage late at night and the waaay too nice owner said he'd put us up at his house. We didn't want to put him through it, so we actually slept in the gas station's garage. Grandma, being the pampered woman she was, got the luxury of sleeping across the bench seat of the tow truck.... :D Short story, long... you should really think about using that degree to become the Hotelier de Ashland so the wayward have a place to sleep.

Tony

tonygreek
10-27-2004, 11:44 PM
mdvaden, it's not hit or miss when you look at how the ad generates, although i think we may have slipped off of the same topic.

to see if someone is infringing upon my mark, i just search on my mark, ie "chemlawn". i search chemlawn and come back with a competitor's ad. how so? clearly they have used my trademarked name as an adword. it's really no different than doing a standard search on yahoo or google. the data just comes from a different bucket, if you will. the content bucket supplies the standard link results you see, and the adwords bucket generates the page'd advertising links. if i, as chemlawn, see that, it tells me it's time to have my legal retainer fees to provide some ROI.

tony

Rex Mann
10-28-2004, 12:02 AM
Thanks for pointing out the errors in my site. I hope to have them corrected very soon.

BTW: its a Hugo Boss

Peace,

Rex

LasVegasPavers.Com (http://lasvegaspavers.com)

mdvaden
10-28-2004, 02:22 AM
Okay, let's see if this is what you mean:

If I use a Keyword in my google account word list, say ie. "Collier Arbor Care", the best Collier can do is type that into a search box.

Then when google ads pop up on the screen, Mr. Collier has to right click on the ad's, view the source, and read the source page text to try and find his name.

Correct?

Now that may be a 50 / 50 thing. I know for a fact that my ads pop up about every other search. Because of my daily spending limit, and competition from other bidders.

But I'm guessing that's partly what you mean - the ad won't display the competitors name, but hit and miss, or mostly hit, he can work his way toward the text.

[ TONY...ADDING EDIT HERE - For fun, I just used your ie. Chemlawn example and searched on Googles page box for "Chemlawn" - sure enough, I right clicked the ads, then clicked view source and the Chemlawn name appears i the tags. Now I can try my own !! By the way, are your really Greek ]

tonygreek
10-28-2004, 10:19 AM
i think we are angling towards each other's point. there's no reason to view any code to see if someone uses your company trademark as an adword. if you search on chemlawn, and another company's ad shows up, the only way that would happen is if they are using your trademarked name as the adword. i don't believe they serve the textual ads based on category matching for a specific trademarked name search.

and nope, not greek. it's a nickname and i'm actually slovenian.

cheers.

mdvaden
10-28-2004, 11:28 AM
Thanks, just curious... My Dad is from Athens, Greece.

I was born in Vancouver B.C., but have lived in Oregon since I was 3 years old. My citizenship is US, but my mom has kept her citizenship as Canadian all these years (dad too, I think - Canadian that is).

mdvaden
11-23-2004, 12:37 AM
Was thinking of this thread today as I tweaked my google ads.

It occured to me, if a name was trademarked like Jersey Tree Service, we could put in google keyword phrases like:

Service Tree Jersey

Google has the option do do a "broad match" which means if someone typed Jersey Tree Service, the google ad would still pop up - recognizing all three keywords, which, arranged out of order, would not be a registered name.

Green Dreams
12-20-2004, 12:26 PM
This Lawsuit Was Thrown Out...

Auto insurance company Geico has sued Google and Overture Services for allegedly violating its trademarks in search-related advertisements, in the latest legal salvo against the Internet companies.

Geico, a subsidiary of Berkshire Hathaway, the investment company owned by Warren Buffett, filed suit against Google and Yahoo-owned Overture on May 4, in federal court in Alexandria, Va.

The insurer charged the two companies with infringing on its trademarks when they sold them as keywords to Geico's rivals, so that the protected terms could appear in sponsored search results. According to the suit, that practice causes consumer confusion, in violation of the Lanham Act, the primary federal law covering trademark registration and protection.

"This practice deliberately misleads consumers and allows Geico's competitors and these defendants to illegally exploit for their own commercial purposes Geico's investment of hundreds of millions of dollars in its brand," company spokeswoman Janice Minshall wrote in an e-mail.

The insurer is seeking damages and an injunction against Google's and Overture's use of its service marks in their advertising programs.

Geico, the largest direct marketer of auto insurance in the United States, is the most high-profile American company to have filed a complaint against Google and Overture over their ad-selling practices. It launched its lawsuit only weeks after Google announced plans to limit concessions made to trademark owners regarding their rights to keywords sold in its popular ad program.

The suit also comes only weeks after Google filed to raise $2.7 billion in an initial public offering. In its S-1 filing, the company highlighted the financial risks it would face if it were forced to limit sales of keyword ads to generic words. Roughly 95 percent of Google's $1 billion in annual revenue comes from search-related advertising, according to its filing.

Complaints abound about misuse of trademarks in search engine ads. Google and Overture have built billion-dollar businesses by marrying text ads with search results; the technique has been effective because Web searching is such a common method for people to find products and services. Consequently, more companies have sought control over their brand names and trademarked terms in paid search. Businesses including American Blind and Wallpaper Factory have filed trademark complaints against search engines.

Still, U.S. law is unclear about how far search engines must go to make sure trademarks aren't infringed upon.

Google did not immediately respond to requests for comment. In the past, representatives from the company have said that trademark law allows for the use of registered marks, as long as there is no likelihood of consumer confusion.

An Overture representative said the company cannot comment on pending litigation. But Overture employs a fair-use policy for evaluating requests from trademark owners.

"In cases in which an advertiser has bid on a term that may be the trademark of another, Overture allows the bids only if the advertiser presents content on its Web site that (a) refers to the trademark...without creating a likelihood of consumer confusion...or (b) uses the term in a generic or merely descriptive manner," according to a notice posted on the company's Web site.

In contrast, Google has adopted a more hands-off approach, opting to review fewer trademark complaints. In April, the search company began allowing U.S. and Canadian advertisers to bid on any keyword, including trademarked terms, in its sponsored listings service.

Keyword policy
Previously, Google had granted requests from advertisers, including 1-800 Contacts and eBay, to bar competitors from bidding on their trademarked names. Google will now only review trademark complaints that relate to text appearing in sponsored listings on its Web site and those of its partners.

According to Geico's complaint, the insurer considered Google's policy change before pursuing legal action: "Google's recent change in trademark policy constitutes a deliberate decision to use the registered trademarks of other companies, including Geico, for the financial benefit of Google and to the detriment of (others)."

Google faces a number of lawsuits similar to Geico's. Louis Vuitton sued Google and its French subsidiary for similar alleged trademark infringement, and a French court ordered Google to cease the practice and pay a fine. In January, American Blind and Wallpaper Factory filed suit against Google in a New York federal court, alleging trademark infringement.

In an effort to preempt American Blind's suit, Google late last year asked a U.S. District Court judge in San Jose, Calif., for a declaratory judgment in the dispute. American Blind still insists, though, that Google stop selling keyword phrases that the company claims violate its trademarks.

Overture faces two pending U.S. trademark suits, one filed by JR Cigar and another by Pets Warehouse.

Paid search is one of the fastest-growing and most closely watched segments of the online advertising business. According to Jupiter Research, paid search will grow from $1.6 billion in sales in 2003 to $2.1 billion this year, and it will continue to grow at a compound annual rate of 20 percent through 2008.

At least some of that growth could be jeopardized if legal rulings bar Google and other search engines from selling off well-known terms such as "Wells Fargo" in their ad programs, legal experts have said.

Research shows that many inquiries at search engines are for brand names or trademarked terms. Within the finance category, for example, more than half the total searches are for branded keywords such as Wells Fargo, according to ComScore Networks, a market research company.

"This is yet another reminder we have to question the core revenue-generating practices of Google and Overture and whether it's sustainable as a legal proposition," said Eric Goldman, an assistant professor of law at Marquette University Law School.

tonygreek
12-20-2004, 09:21 PM
the case was not thrown out. part of the suit had a ruling issued (and therefore subject to appeal) that google was not violating the trademark, but allowed the rest of the case (using a trademarked name in the ad copy itself) to continue on.

i think that google will still be having to repeatedly defend itself against these cases until they, in my opinion, inevitably lose. so far, the rulings have not been definitive on the matter (read: not broad enough to dissuade others or appeals). if they lose, their stock price could be destroyed. it'll be interesting, because no doubt bershire-hathaway (geico's owner) has the pockets and the seeming desire to keep this one going.

JustMowIt
12-29-2004, 08:35 AM
as well as the intro of the About Us:

"RM Stonescaping located in Phoenix, Arizona." throw an "is" in there.

also, you might think about disabling that right click disable script Tony

Tony:

I use 2003 Frontpage. How do you do disable the right click??
justmowit.com

tonygreek
12-29-2004, 11:42 AM
justmowit, i'm not an advocate of the "right click disable". i think it kills usability in that if i want to launch another page from a link in your site, i right click/open in new window and can view multiple pages at once. if you want it to protect your images, you can do that just for images. just search the web for javascript help/script sites and you'll find the scripts you want. just search "right click disabled" and you'll probably be on your way.

tony

Green Dreams
02-09-2005, 03:14 PM
I saw a frenchie court is on Googles arse about this issue. Like I said before...I do/did it, but I got the idea from large lawn co that would love to do it to me...

AintNoFun
02-09-2005, 06:04 PM
green dreams, any udpated progress on getting more accounts?

Green Dreams
02-09-2005, 09:32 PM
A few...they trickle in from the web...