Would you reccomend a ZTR?

[bigz1001]

First, my mowing conditions. Atleast once a week (some times twice) I mow 3 acres of yard. The terrain is somewhat rough in areas and does have some areas with slope (nothing major, but this is West Virginia). My lawn for the most part is very open without that many obsticals.

We have lived at this home for 8 years and riding mower #3 is getting ready to kick the bucket. We have been purchasing Craftsman riders in an assortment of setups. The current one is a Kohler engine, hydrostatic drive, and I believe a 50 inch deck. In this current mower the deck is absolutely wore out and will have to be replaced, also the front axle seems to be messed up as well. The common problem with all mowers (except the one where the hydro transmission went out) is that the deck wears out and we are left with a mower that runs fine, but at the cost to replace a deck, it seems to be cheaper just to replace with a new mower. Also, in an effort to lengthen the life of the current mower, we haven't mowed at near the fastest setting.

So, I pose my question again, would you reccomend a commercial ZTR? Currently it takes a solid 3 hours to mow the lawn, and at atleast once a week, time is money. Will these mowers last long enough to justify the extra cost over the craftsman even with time decreased?

[Simplyhere]

Well, depends. You can expect to pay (for really good "used", or low-end new) about $6K for a ZTR - say something in the 20hp/52" cut range. You can anticipate the ZTR cutting 40% off of your mowing time, based on my own, similar residential experience. So, that means you'll be using the mower 1 hour and 48 minutes per week. To be "conservative," let's say you average mowing 1.5 times per week (30 week season, you mow twice a week one-half of the time). So, 108 multiplied by 1.5 is 162 minutes, average, or 2.7 hours per week.

If, with good maintenance, the ZTR can be expected to last 1200 hours (and it should, because it's residential and not subject to the harsh conditions of a professional), that's 1200/2.7 hours per week, or 444 weeks of useful mower life that you can use (remember, this is assuming you mow your three acress 1.5 times each week). Hmmm, o'kay, 444 weeks, assuming 30 mowing weeks per year is 14.8 years, which we'll round to 15 years. Say $6000 purchase price (assuming equal maintenance needs from mower to mower) divided by 15 years, or $400 cost per year - for gross costs only. Remember, we're not adding in maintenance costs, as these would vary.

Now, take the average price of your Craftsman mowers, divided by the average number of years you've been able to use them (remember, we're considering maintenance equal in terms of need and price), and if the amount of money is equal to or greater than the amount of money you'll pay, per years, for the ZTR, and purchase capital is not an issue, TAKE THE ZTR, as you will save time on your mowing, and have more fun doing it.

Hope this helps.

[wvbill]

bigz...
Where abouts in West Virginia? I'm in the Eastern Panhandle near the VA border...

I just went through the same thing as you. I've got 3.5 Acres of ex-pasture (rough in spots), no significant hills. We built the house in 1998 and I've mowed with the same Craftsman 46" 20hp mower since then. Until this summer when the deck wore out and I finally got tired of spending 3 1/2 hours on the mower each week (twice a week in spring and fall sometimes).

I ended up replacing the Craftsman with a 52" Country Clipper JaZee ZTR that I got for $5,600. I've cut the mowing time down to an hour and fourty five minutes and it's SO MUCH more FUN than plugging along on the Craftsman!

Do a search for my earlier posts where I describe my comparison shopping for this mower. I think it's an excellent value - a step above the "homeowner grade" ZTRs but without the high $$ of the commercial grade.

[mpm32]

I have around 2.25 acres of grass to cut on my property with lots of obstacles. It took me 4 hours to cut the lawn with my craftsman 42" deck on almost the fastest speed. When I trimmed it added an addition 1.5 hours. This year I hired someone to cut my lawn because it was killing a lot of my weekend. They used a 52" ztr and it took him 1 hr. I went out and got a used Scag STHM 3-wheeler with a 61" deck. It now takes me just under an hour to cut my lawn. And because of the front mount deck, I have to do much less trimming. It is also much more fun and the quality of the cut is even better than the cut when the lawn guy was cutting it for me. I think he was just doing a cut and run and not giving me his best cut.

I figured that by buying a used well cared for machine and using it just one hour a week it should last me quite a long time. Nothing is better than a commercial quality machine.

[Travis Followell]

You will definately be better off with a COMMERCIAL ztr. I would not recommend a residential ztr to anyone. They aren't built any better than a lawn tractor. If you get a commercial ztr with regular maintenance it would last you 2000 hours at the least and should even run more. With an air cooled engine you should expect even 3000 hours out of a mower. Some good brands to look at would be Cb cadet Commercial, Dixie Chopper, Hustler, Grasshopper, Bobcat, Scag, Exmark, Ferris, John Deere, Bad Boy, and Great Dane just to name a few.

[bigz1001]

Now that you mention it nd after doing some searching my available dealers within a half hour drive are Dixie Chopper as well as Exmark. I agree with choosing a commercial grade mower. But my question lies in, where to start? Lazer XP, HP, Z, and about a million other abbreviations. And Several diffrent series of Dixie Chopper. From browsing websites in an attempt to gather some information. Where to start? It seems like I need around 23HP and 52-60 inch deck. What models should a look at? And what models to stay away from? I like the hydraulic pumps and drives on the Chopper, we happen to use the same brands on some of our mining equipment.

[dvmcmrhp52]

Once you learn how to operate a good quality ZTR you will be able to cut your lawn in 1.5 hours without a problem other than during the heavy spring growth.

We have exmarks so obviously that's what I would recommend.
The lazer Z HP is a great machine for commercial use but also for homeowners looking to buy their last mower.
A 23 horse 52" HP will serve you well, it has better trim capabilities than a Lazer Z 60" (full size lazer) meaning the deck sticks out further beyond the left rear wheel,(trim side)
and will as mentioned last a homeowner 2000 hours easily with proper care. Commercial cutters routinely get 2000 hours with MUCH more abuse than any homeowner will give their own machine.
Buy a Z over a craftsman rider for 3 acres????
Absolutely, as long as your budget alows............

[dauski]

I was in the same position a couple of months age. I have a little over 3 acres and was spending 4 hours a week mowing the grass. I purchased a Cub Tank M60 and have cut my mowing time down to 1 1/2 hours.

[mowhigh]

Any of the brands mentioned would more than meet your needs. But try it out on your own turf before you decide. I demoed 9 different makes (Scag and Hustler were favorites) before trying the JAZee (posted by wvbill, although the price was much less). Although billed as an 'estate' mower, it was as rugged as the others and handled the extremely overgrown back section (3-4' tall) best of all. When mowing my neighbor's manicured turf all the ZTRs could be used at top speed. But on my own rugged terrain, none could mow that much faster than my previous John Deere (an ole fashioned lawn tractor, before cheapened to Home Depot standards, which lasted 15 years). The JAZee dealer (www.countryclipper.com) suggested the fully commercial Charger with a pivoting front axle, which was a little smoother (helped much more to reduce the tire pressure). I was already sold on the JAZee's flip-up deck (easy cleaning) and convenient single joystick control, so moving up to the 52" 23hp (choice of Kohler or Kawi) for well under $6k was a no brainer. Depending on the roughness of your terrain, you might also check out Ferris; or add a suspension seat to whatever you end up getting. Good luck!

[CathyLynn]

We all seem to agree that a commercial grade machine is the way to go!

The are really few differences between the major players. For rough terrain you may want a heavier frame--A Scag or the Ferris with IS. The Exmark is also a fine machine.

No matter what your dealer tells you about the Country Clipper it is not designed well and the deck will fall apart under constant use. We used to be the dealer in Indpls but had a lot of warranty issues that CC would never resolve. The joystick seems nice but gives you very poor slope control compared to all teh other major brands. The hydro oil filters hang real low with no protection= bad news.. Few commercial people with other choices available to them use them! None around here!

The other guys are being conservative in their life expectancy for a resodentially owned and cared for machine!

[DLS1]

Whatever you buy make sure it has several springs built into the seat. The ZTR has a lot more speed that a Craftsman and the more speed the more bouncing. ZTR's cut real good at fast speeds and you will be mowing real fast in open areas. The springs on the seat will make a big difference in comfort.

Check out a Hustler Super Mini Z 25hp/52" deck which has the springs in the seat.
Hustler has a seat you turn a knob to adjust the springs tension.

[bigz1001]

I have been out actively looking at several of the mowers mentioned in this post, first a few questions and then some thoughts. In speaking to the Dixie Chopper dealer in my area he informed me that a Kohler labeled as 27hp would only dyno out at 21.3 or so hp, compared to the Generac I believe which lists as 27hp is truely 27hp (he also talked very poorly of the kawasaki engine, any truth to this claim?).
I never had really believed everything I have read in these posts about the dealer making the diffrence. My local Exmark dealer is also The Cub Commercial Dealer and Husqvara(sp). And basically he doesn't seem interested in selling me what I am interested in buying. I told him from the start that I was not interested in a Husky and that I was a 50in or larger deck. The only Exmark he was interested in talking about was the CT, but that didn't last for long. He then tried to interest me in a 48in tank which I was not truely interested in either(and notably the only one he had in stock), the only mower he was willing to order for me and actively pursue a demo was the Husky. So, I think Exmark still makes a fine mower, but I am not interested in this dealer.
So far of mowers I have looked at and dealers I have spoken with, the Scag Wildcat and Dixie Chopper Coatesville classic seem to be my best options, both dealers were very informative and very friendly, neither crossed the line of trash talking the other's product either(minus the engine questions I asked earlier.)
The Chopper Dealer is bringing a mower over Monday afternoon to allow me to test on my yard. It is a XG2703-60. He has quoted me a price of $7,400 for this mower.
I also am intested in the Scag Wildcat. This dealer is about 45 minutes away, but seems to have a very good product, and is willing to bring one to my house during this week as well to try out. He has quoted me a price of $8,499.
So far these seem to be my options (Hustler dealer is well over an hour away), thoughts, opinions? And information on this engine information?

[DLS1]

I also am intested in the Scag Wildcat. This dealer is about 45 minutes away, but seems to have a very good product, and is willing to bring one to my house during this week as well to try out. He has quoted me a price of $8,499.
So far these seem to be my options (Hustler dealer is well over an hour away), thoughts, opinions?

Not sure why you wouldn't check out the Hustler dealer if it is only 15 minutes farther than other dealer. Your talking a lot of money for a mower so it seems strange to me that you wouldn'y go another 15 minutes time to check out another brand of mower.

Good luck with whatever you buy.

[bigz1001]

Diffrence in being that the Dealer is located in Virginia and I am not. I also frequently visit the Summersville area(location of the scag dealer) and not the area of the Hustler.

[Travis Followell]

I personally have had no experience with kawasaki engines. I have heard from some people that they are good and some people don't like them. If you search and find some posts by Sawman 65 he is a dealer and he calls the kawasaki's- Kawajunkie's. if I found a mower with a kaw. engine that I really liked I wouldn't hesitate to buy it because I know there good engines. I guess different peoples opinions of them are based on their experience with them. I have always used Kohlers and they are very good engines. Can't say either way about the Generac. I have also heard good and bad things about them but again I wouldn't hesitate to get one.

The price quoted for the Dixie Chopper is a very good price.$7400 isn't bad at all. The price for the Scag is a little high though. maybe way to high. Its probibly the list price because I can go to my dealer and get one for $7400. The Scag is a good mower but I would go with the DC if it was me. of course domo first and see which one you like best but the DC is definately the better deal and when you demo it I think you will like it.

[dvmcmrhp52]

BigZ,
I'd go back to the Exmark dealer and TELL him what YOU want to demo.................
If he isn't willing to cooperate talk to Terry in the Exmark forum here at Lawnsite.
Dealers DO make the difference.......every now and then they need to be reminded WHY they are still in business.

I'm not a chopper fan,(dixie) but I will say this, The dealer is trash talking other motors for obvious reasons.......Dixie uses generacs...............

Scag and hustler both make good quality machines as well, but I wouldn't exclude the exmark...........

[CathyLynn]

At this time of the year you shoul dbe able toi get the Scag Wildcat for 7400 to 7800 --cash talks! The Scag may be a better machine for you because it is quite aq bit hevier than the Dixie. The machines both top out at the same speed which really won't do you much good on anything less than real smooth lawn conditions.

Each engine has its strong and weak points, and, like Chevy, Ford, Dodge, it's a matter of personal preference. For a residential user, not subjecting the machine to the abuse common among commercial owners, any engine would be just fine!

Remember you only have 3 acres--you don't really need a fire breathing gas guzzling engine for what amounts to about 75 minutes work each time!

[DLS1]

Hey bigz1001, I just noticed your profile says you are 20 years old.

Looks like you are living with your parents and trying to convince your parents to buy a ztr since you are cutting the lawn. :) :) :)

[bigz1001]

Just read the next post...

[bigz1001]

Hey bigz1001, I just noticed your profile says you are 20 years old.

Looks like you are living with your parents and trying to convince your parents to buy a ztr since you are cutting the lawn. :) :) :)

Wow, not going to consider a Hustler so we have to attempt to make this a personal attack? As a matter of fact I am 21 years old. I graduated High School at 17 and went to School at West Virginia University to get a degree in Mining Engineering, I graduated in May and make $72k a year plus company benefits and a company vehicle. Being a Mining Engineering Major I have worked in Underground ground coal mines on the "Weekend Warrior" shift during the semester (12 Hour shift, Fri., Sat., and Sun. at $18 per hour) and worked Mon.-Thur. during the semester while taking classes over the summer. So actually I had $82k in the bank by the time I graduated and I own my own home at 21. I guess teenagers and young adults are worthless anymore huh?

P.S.-You are correct on one fact, my experience with Craftsman lawnmowers was at my parents house (who live up the street and mow about 1.5 acers) and the previous homeowner.

[DLS1]

Wow, not going to consider a Hustler so we have to attempt to make this a personal attack? As a matter of fact I am 21 years old. I graduated High School at 17 and went to School at West Virginia University to get a degree in Mining Engineering, I graduated in May and make $72k a year plus company benefits and a company vehicle. Being a Mining Engineering Major I have worked in Underground ground coal mines on the "Weekend Warrior" shift during the semester (12 Hour shift, Fri., Sat., and Sun. at $18 per hour) and worked Mon.-Thur. during the semester while taking classes over the summer. So actually I had $82k in the bank by the time I graduated and I own my own home at 21. I guess teenagers and young adults are worthless anymore huh?

P.S.-You are correct on one fact, my experience with Craftsman lawnmowers was at my parents house (who live up the street and mow about 1.5 acers) and the previous homeowner.


Hey guy you see the 3 smiley faces. Without a smiley face it is a personal attack.

I don't care what you buy. My self worth is not wrapped up in what brands other people buy or letting other people know how much money I make.

:) :) :)

[CathyLynn]

Looks to me like you have it all together! Right guys????????????????

[msdprx14]

Does anyone know anything about the Snapper Fast Cut with a 20hp motor and 50" cut? The company I work for has recovered one that was stolen and is selling it to the highest bidder. It looks to be in great shape with 51hrs on meter. I know it isn't the best ZTR on the market, but it looks like it could do for residential use. I have about 10 acres to cut. Some of it hilly. What is the most I should bid on it?

[txchopper]

mmmmm, after reading all the posts, I too would have taken the 20' year old remark as an attack.. smiley face or no smiley face.. As for the obvious reason the Chopper dealer was promoting Generac " because Chopper uses Generac". This remark is true, but they also use Kaw., Kohler and Yanmar engines. In the past few years Honda ,also, had a shot. Kaw. is lacking in the "oil pump" department. This pump does not have enough pressure to allow the use of the "second Amsoil" filter. The 27 Generac has really been bullet proof which is prolly why Cub Cadet is, also, using this engine. And we all know the Chopper offers 5 lifetime warranty items on the mentioned model "xg-2700". Hopes this helps in clearing up some of the mis-information.

[out4now]

ZTR will be faster than a tractor but if you need implements of any kind can't use them really with the ZTR. If you would only need a tractor a few times a year then buy a ZTR and rent a tractor when needed. Anything commericial built will be good. Deere has a 7 Iron deck that would be good if you have a good dealer there check it out and demo some mowers before you spend yor money. Exmark, Toro, Scag all make good machines. You may want to level out the yard some, easier on mower and easier on you.

[ThreeWide]

When you narrow things down to a couple of different machines, what sets them apart is your local dealer. Which dealer will be easy to work with when you have a maintenance problem? Which dealer would you be most comfortable doing business with? You want one who stands behind the products they sell.

Even if you have the best machine in the world, a lousy local dealer can give you headaches.

[ensor]

Turfunlimited,

How do you like your Gravely Pro G? I am considering getting one and was wondering how you like yours.

Thanks

[ThreeWide]

Its the first machine in that class that I've owned, so I have nothing to compare it to. This mower is a 'tweener for me, since I use the Exmark on larger open areas and reels on smaller properties. I use it mainly on slopes that are too tricky for the ZTR.

Overall I think the machine is built like a tank. The only complaint I have is the constant squealing of the belts/brakes when going down slopes or turning.