Pushing across a street

[columbiaplower]

i was told by a resident that i was not suppose to push across a street when plwing driveways. ive heard about this before but never had any problems. what about all of you? if u cant do this than that would make alot more work.

[cat320]

Well if they catch you in mas you get a fine it's a big no no here.And it will cost you if the cop doesn't like you.

[John DiMartino]

Cant do that anywhere legally,I wont do it,keep the snow on your side of the road.If there were an accident caused by the snow being in the road,or because you pushed the salt /sand off the road,you are liable and will be held accountable for it.Hope you have that 1 mill coverage.Dont take this personally,but pushing snow across the road is a sign of an amatuer,profesionals do not do it,at least its that way here.

[cat320]

I never had to push across the road in any of my drives or lots a good plower can do it with out pushing across.

[Leroy]

A few years back some of the local governments were making noise about pushing across roadways. I don't know if there are any ordinances against it but we don't do it, you're asking for trouble sooner or later.

[nsmilligan]

It's illegal here. The DOT guys will sometimes report you, or if the police see you they'll ticket you. Cause an accident and you're in deep caw-caw!

Bill

[4 Saisons]

same thing here. once in a storm at one customer, they are two wall each side of the driveway and a little place for the snow, so i try to put some between the street and the sidewalk. In the afternoon the guys with the bombardier had to back up twice to clean the sidewalk....2 days later he had a notice in the letter box explaining the next time is a fine...Don't need to tell you that I received a phone call fews minutes latter.

All snow must remain on property regardless residential, commercial or industrial. Even if the lot of the others side of the street is vacancy (execpt if you are allowed by the owner(and have it on paper)). Prohibited on all ciy ground.

[John Allin]

Due to the regionality of the snow industry, and the fact that standards change from region to region, I would respectfully submit that making specific references to what is considered "professional" and being an "amatuer" might be construed as being narrow minded. In some markets that get boo koo snow, going across the street with snow is not the "no-no" you might think it to be.

Now... I've never heard that actually LEAVING snow in the street is allowed anywhere, but I do know that in some selected markets taking it across the street is not considered unprofessional, but necessary (and in some cases, encouraged) in order to survive some storms and their aftermath.

Some might be offended by such a broad statement. Keep in mind that what is banned in one region may be accepted in others.

Just a thought from a plower that considers himself a professional, and in a market that gets several 24"+ snowfalls a season (and at least one 36-42" snowfall every other year) and where not taking snow across the street can mean that a resident can be snowbound for a couple weeks.....

It's not illegal here to take it across the street, but it is illegal to leave it in the street.

[PINEISLAND1]

With the Boss v, it is a great thing to be able to carry snow and deposit it where ever it makes most sense. Sometimes that means across the street. On my private roads, almost all of the driveways snow goes across. It makes the most sense, and is safer because it reduces the visibility problem of huge piles on each side of the drive, right at the road. Now in towns, you gotta abide by local law. But I don't see it as a "pro/amatuer" issue.

[John DiMartino]

John,like i said,i didnt mean to offend anyone,but here you are not allowed to push snow across the street for any reason.It is illegal,you of all people should know that,due to you removing salt/or sand from the road.I know for a fact this is the case here,now on unplowed backroads or in come cases yes you are right,but like I said,here it isnt necessary,and 99% of those doing it are not commercial plowers,they are personal use/and helping neighbors out.Maybe laws in the snow belt are different or relaxed more,but here they are strictly enforced,traffic is so bad here,anything that slows it down or could cause an accident gets you a nice fine.

[TLS]

I have a few accounts that have open fields across the street. In those cases, YES the snow does get pushed across. I always leave the street cleaner than it was anyway, so why would it matter? I have seen some scrubs push into the street and leave a pile as they raise and go from the driveway!!! Thats a NO-NO for sure. If its someone elses property across the street, or its a highly travelled street, I totally avoid it. As for driveways, 95% of mine are side loading garages anyway (by choice) so I just push straight in.

[Eric ELM]

It's a no no here. I've seen the cops sit and watch me to make sure I didn't push any across the street.

[BRL]

"Cant do that anywhere legally"
John,
There isn't a federal law regarding this, so each state or locality makes their own laws. So it is certainly possible that many areas or towns do not have such a law, & many others may not be as strict about enforcing that law if they have one. For the record, I have no idea if there is such a law in my town or state. I used to do it in rare cases, but since reading the last thread on this before this season, I don't do it anymore, & I've had to work at getting subs working for me to not do it. I hope this now makes me a professional ;)

[cat320]

Well what about homowners that snowblower there driveway into the street.They should get a fine >you wanna hear something funny my local fire dept. was shoveling the snow into the street on the side where they park there personal cars isn't that funny.

[Matt]

Again there are some things acceptable in certain parts of the country that aren't elsewhere. In areas that get large amounts of snow this is pretty widly practiced, now weather or not it is legal I have never investigated. I do know that I have done it and been observed by all police agencies in our area with nothing said and nothing received in the mail. In 99% of the cases the road is cleaner when we get done than when we started. The contractors that leave a obstacle course in the road are the ones that give all of us a bad image. The one that I see here doing it the most and leaving the road a mess is one of the largest in the area, he must think his size gives him the right. I think we all need to set a positive example of the snowplowing industry around the country and that is what the members of SIMA are striving to acheive.

[Yardworks]

I do it in some cases and as long as no one complains I'm going to keep doing it. I have heard that our local ordinances state that snow must stay on the property where it fell. But in the country and certain spots in town it saves a lot of time.

[Mike Nelson]

We don't have to do alot of "across the street jobs" anymore,but when I personally had to I made sure that the road was cleaned and salted when I was through.
Just trying to keep everybody smiling!

[thelawnguy]

Its illegal in most towns around here, one because the slobs dont clean up after themselves and when it refreezes its a hazard second theres lots of sidewalks 2 ft from the curb and I know I wouldnt want the guy across the street burying my sidewalk under 4 feet of packed snow.

[John Allin]

When I stated "can't to it anywhere legally" - I was referring to leaving snow in the street. That's an obstacle and I cannot imagine any municipality thinking that leaving snow in the street is good, or legal. Try putting your garbage cans in the middle of the road and an accident taking place because of it....

No... my take on it all was that in some markets taking snow across the street is fine and legal... but leaving in the street to freeze and/or cause accidents cannot possibly be legal (or professional).

Guess I'm going to have to consult a lawyer before posting such things again....

[SLC1]

You can't do it in our town. It is a $35.00 fine if you are caught pushing across the road and the cops do give out tickets.

[4 Saisons]

I got a 50$ fine last summer for roller skating in the street. Can't figure "playing" with a plow.

[Edited by 4 Saisons on 01-19-2001 at 01:00 PM]

[Remsen1]

I don't plow accross the street on a regular basis, but sometimes I am plowing drives on town roads that haven't been plowed yet. (It's kind of annoying because I have to come back after the town plow to punch through the snowbank), but if I am plowing before the town has plowed, I'll push it right across the street and leave a nice little clean spot as I scrape across the road. Then the town plow wing will erase the evidence of the snowbank I deposited. Under these circumstances I am not being unprofessional I am just taking advantage of the situation and saving precious room for stacking snow. I'm pretty sure that it is not legal, but given the amount of snow that we get (typically 6'+ per year) it is accepted and I have never heard of any such law being enforced.

[DanG]

As far as I know in NY it's against the law for private contractors to even drop their plow on the street.

Hers something that happened to me because of this reason last year.

In the little hick town where I live I had a problem with a driver on the village DPW because of other plowers doing it.

He saw me plowing down a steep driveway towards the road (too steep to plow up)and stopped the village truck(Ford F600 & spreader and 10' plow) to watch me.
When I got to the end of the drive he blocked me in. I waited for him to move,and then I went to talk to him.

He said that they(the town) were sick and tired of guys plowing snow into/across the streets and leaving it there.And if they caught guys doing it they were going to have the cops issue tickets.

I told him I wasn't going to do that.

I proceeded to get back in my truck & picked up the plow and started to go through the pile I had left so I could push it onto the lawn near the driveway.

Thats when I heard him release the air-brakes and the truck started to roll toward me. I got the heck out of his way and then got out of my truck and got in his face on the side of his truck, needless to say I was a just a little PO'd.

He said that the super wanted to talk to me and he had thought I was trying to leave.

I told him that was no reason to try to hit my truck.

The super pulled up and he left, I told him what his employee tried to do. He said he'd talk to him about it.

The next day after thinking about it I reported it to the mayor(she didn't know about it) & I told her that she needed to talk to him about it because if he had done it(hit my truck) I would've sued the town.

The guy ended up with a written reprimand in his employee file and she also had him stop at my house to apologize for his actions.
He glares at me everytime he sees me now thou ...

Oh I think it cost him a promotion too.

Dan

D.G. Enterprises

[columbiaplower]

Well i guess i should have been more informitive in my opening post. When i do this i do it the right way. i NEVER leave it in the street,and i always push it far back off the road. Also i resalt no matter what. i also know where the sidewalks are and watch out for them. I have seen many other plowers do this. I cosider myself a pro and all the others ive seen do it pro also. I see this as being safer than leaving large piles around end of driveway

[thelawnguy]

Keep them eyes open, Dan...

[thelawnguy]

Here are some rules posted at the website of a nearby town which I service customers in:

Snow Removal:

Streets: It is the Town's (State's if State Highway e.g. Route 3 Maple Street) responsibility to clear snow from streets and make them passable for public use. First the Town opens the road, making one swipe down the middle from each side of the road. Once they've done this throughout the whole town they then go back and widen the road. Residents shouldn't clear their driveway aprons until the roads have been widened or the aprons will fill in with heavy wet snow from the streets.
Sidewalks: It is the owners responsibility to clear the snow from the sidewalks within 24 hours after the snow or ice storm ends.
Fire Hydrants: It is the owners responsibility to clear around the fire hydrant within 24 hours after the snow storm ends. The accumulation cannot be left more than four inches below the bottom of the lowest outlet on any fire hydrant. And within a radius of three feet from the center of such hydrant.
Driveways: When you or your landscaper clears your driveway they cannot push the snow across the street and deposit it in front of your neighbors house. The Town must push back snow as far as it can. This practice can occasionally deposit large quantities of snow on the driveway apron. This can't be avoided. One thing residents can do to minimize the snow on their driveway apron is to pile shoveled snow to the right as you face the street. That way the shoveled snow will be carried down the street and not pushed back into the driveway.
Mailboxes: The Town is not responsible for damage to improperly installed or poorly maintained mail boxes. The Town will only repair mail boxes it directly hits not those that fall over as a result of a snow load.
Sand: Sand is available for residents to use on their sidewalks and driveways. You can pick it up at two locations, the Transfer Station at 100 Marsh Street and beyond the tennis courts at Millwoods Park. Sand is available in the Transfer Station the beginning of November and in Millwoods Park once we finish picking up leaves from Curbside(normally, the beginning of December).
DO NOT THROW SNOW INTO THE STREET AS IT IS ILLEGAL: Per Town Ordinance "No person shall lay, throw, blow, place or plow or cause to be laid, thrown, blown, placed or plowed on or into any public street or way any snow or ice from any private property, public or private sidewalk or public right-of-way. If, in the removal of snow or ice from any such property , sidewalk or way, it is necessary to temporarily place snow or ice on any public street or way, such snow or ice shall immediately be removed from the public street or way by and at the expense of the person causing such deposit. The penalty for each violation shall be $50 and each and every 24 hours period of failure or neglect to comply with the provisions of this section shall be deemed a separate offense or violation."

[Leroy]

Well I'm new to this BB and I learned a few things. I've seen so many sloppy amateurs plowing around here that I generally got a bad taste for most people in this business without even knowing them. That's one of the reasons I joined SIMA. This thread has shown me that a lot of you guys really care about what you do and how it is perceived. My ignorance about different areas of the country limits what I should post (a good lesson learned). I have learned over the years that this is a tuff job. Most homeowners and businessmen wake up in the morning and take for granted that their street is plowed and their parking lot is clean. If you can push across the road and then take care of the road (no trailers, replace any salt you pushed) then I guess for you guys it's O.K.) If you're in a built up area or the law prohibits it, Then it's pretty clear what you can't do. Bottom line is do what is safe!! Do what reflects well upon you or your company, and do what keeps the customer happy within reason. Hope everybody has a profitable and safe season.

P.S. JAA I don't reckon you need a lawyer before you post.

[FIREMAN]

DPW guys have radios in thier trucks, call cops, cops hate to work in the cold, cops write lots of tickets for what we call push outs, town is happy, sees $$ and actually gets double returns on each ticket written...one to contractor 75.00 per offense(up to 3) then loss of permit to work(landscape/ plow) in town for 12 months. resident you plow for pays 50.00 also each time. One guy I see alot bought a business that has 45 accounts in town,,he did not know the law here...he pushed out 37 driveways by the time the cops cuaght up to him...needless to say ignorance is no excuse..also needless to say there are 45 plowing contarcts availible for the rest of the season..and until january of next year...poor guy...

[4 Saisons]

Remove the permit...this is really a good thing. This the way to pro service. No cheap B.S by that way.

Permit will be necessary here next years and i hople they will be controlled like FIREMAN's city.

[Rooster]

In Overland Park, KS the City says you can plow across the street, just don't leave snow in the street. Several surrounding cities, have the same rule.

On my street, since I don't want to wait 2 days for the plow to come by, I plow my street, no problems from the city. Sometimes the city plow truck will make it a point to come by and throw a little salt on the hill, since I clean it off for him early, makes his job easier, neighbors really like it too.

[John DiMartino]

The problem with pushing across the street,when the road is clear is that most guys do not clean up the spill off the sides,I see it here all the time.I have had cops watch me plow too,just waiting for me to push snow in the street.Some of my accounts are on the same road as a Truckstops or america,the Cops cruise this road in the snow,since truckers always park on thew shoulder when the lot fills up,or the close I84,in blizzards.These cops have orders to write tickets for any violation reguarding,parking and removing snow.

[UNCLE BOB]

CANT PUSH ACROSS PUBLIC ROADS HERE IN MD.

[jammin]

sometimes you get no choice here the snow can pile up very fast this december seven of my drives ran out of room, i mean totally out of room. The driveway points were four feet tall,so too avoid loosing sight clearance for customers cars, i pushed across street leaving road clear and not damaging lawns on neighbors properties. It is not illegal, here to push across streets.Some villages do pass thie own ordinances,so a good plower should as i have check it out before they do it.I dont think it is about amatuaer or pro this becomes neccessary .When the law changes then out come the loaders and i will make more money any way.The biggest offenders i have seen are the homeowners with garden tractors they push it right uot in the road.Cause an accident and lawsuits will appear.

[yardsmith]

We get alot of wannabe plowers here; guys with plows think that makes them pros. I have a few that I push across; helps keep their visibility open when leaving their driveway. I get SOOOOOOOOOOOO sick of seeing the lazy hillbillies slop snow all across the road & don't make an extra pass to clean it up. I ALWAYS make sure it looks nice, & it cleans the snow that was in the street too.
Actually, when I see a drive that has snow left in the street, I drop my plow while driving down the road & throw it back in their drive just at the precise moment-YES! ;)
I live on a secondary street, so when I get home in the morning, I usually hurry up & down my street to clean it out. That is one no no where I live, but I can't stand waiting all day for the city. Hey, it made some guy less work to do. I don't think the 'man' would see it that way, but life goes on.

[66Construction]

I'm from Albany NY and I see a lot of guys push across the street. I do very few driveways and rarely push across the street. However I've seen guys pile 4' snowbanks across the street from parking lots. I even had a customer ask me why I dont push the snow from their driveway across the street. I haven't heard of anyone getting a ticket for this but a cop did yell at one of my guys for snowblowing a sidewalk with the chute pointed into the street. Common sence would tell you not to do that. The average winter here is 64" and I dont see what's to be gained by pushing across the street....the farther you push the snow the longer the job takes.

[DanG]

66 Construction,

Most likely we plow in the same areas.

I cover from downtown Albany near Columbia & James all the way up to near St. Peters Hospital(South Manning).

I also do a bunch over in Rensselaer County.

Dan

[66Construction]

Dan G

I plow around Western ave Central ave. The A couple banks out in water ford and Troy down towards the end of 787.
It's nice to see someone else on here from the same area.
I live right over by Saint Peters and do about 12 driveways over there. I dont go down town much I bid a few lots and some sidewalk jobs down there but didn't have any luck.

[CCLC]

I don't even consider this as an option on any road other than 15-25 mph subdivision streets. We just make sure that we clean up when we are done and the person across the street doesn't have a problem with a pile of snow in his/her yard. Most of the time they are understanding since they want their snow pushed across the road as well.

[DanG]

66 Construction,

Yes it's good to see someone else from around here.
I'm doing about 10-12 driveways over near St. Petes.
Seems like I have one or two on every street. (Fleetwood, South Main, South Allen, South Manning, and up as far as Holmesdale)
I also have one job down in Troy, Do you know where Woodside church is?It's just down the hill from HVCC near what used to be firehouse auto parts.

Looks like we might have some work for this weekend,They say 1-2 " but look what happened last time we ended up with 6".

Dan