What is your favorite ZTR?

[snake1040]

Looking to buy a new mower and decide what to get so I thought I would see what the people in the field are using not what the dealer tells me. I would like to know where you mow and what, what the mower is and why you like it.

[accuratelawn]

Snake,<br>Look at past posts on this subject.<br>Look at all posts, on just last 10 days.<br>EXMARK!

[yardsmith]

my vote goes to the bobcat 200. You get 61&quot; cut & 25 hp Kohler for $7000. It's similar to eaxmark & scag style, but with engineering improv. over the exmark.<br>Check out other posts for other info.<p>----------<br>Smitty ô¿ô<p>

[yardsmith]

my vote goes to the bobcat 200. It's owned by Textron. You get 61&quot; cut & 25 hp Kohler for $7000. It's similar to eaxmark & scag style, but with engineering improv. over the exmark.<br>Check out other posts for other info.<p>----------<br>Smitty ô¿ô<br>

[Lazer]

Engineering improv. over the Exmark?! Please. Where? What one aspect is better? <p>If your shopping price, a Toro 62&quot; Z Master 23hp Kohler can be bought for 5800.00<br>

[Grassboy]

Hey Lazer, Is the Toro Zmaster a good mower? I am thinking of buying one. How much would a 48&quot;rider(or the nearest size to it)cost?

[Lazer]

It's the same as the Exmark w/ a Toro deck & different deck frame. (Uses different gas tanks, too)<p>I didn't think &quot;Toro&quot; had a 48&quot;, I thought they were 44&quot; and 52&quot;.

[yardsmith]

The bad part about the lazer is that the engine has a horiz. shaft, meaning the belts have to go from the engine, down towards the ground, & make a 90* turn to go under the mower & run all the deck pulleys & hydros. That means 2- 90* bends for every revolution of the belt, which means twice as much wear on the belts, & replacing them sooner. It also eats from your HP to do that extra work.<br>The bobcat has vertical shaft & all the pulleys are under the mower, running parallel with each other. More efficient design.<br>Also, lazers did not have oil coolers up until a year ago or so. That is why you were required/&quot;recommended&quot; to run synthetic oil.<br>Lazers have gotten better, But I still favor the bobcat or bunton. (my opinion from demo's).<p>----------<br>Smitty ô¿ô<br>

[bdemir]

Smitty i just purchased a used dixie 60&quot; 22hp kohler for $3700. It has an oil and hydro cooler plus a turbo and has two hydro filters and two oil filters for the engine. It is also has the more efficient vertical shaft and I think it is a good mahcine.

[Lazer]

Lazers still don't have Hydro oil coolers and you HAVE to run Mobil 1 oil.

[AB Lawn Care]

Snake1040<p>I would suggest you look into a walker.Yes the can not cut as fast as a exmark or dixie but what they lack in speed they make up in versatility.Look at the discussion started on &quot;walkers are they all that?&quot;that should give you an idea of why I and others use walkers.One key factor is how close the dealer is and how good of service they provide.I have a great dealer in my area with a huge supply of parts for my walker.I don't care what mower you own,if you do not have good dealer service than I would suggest an you find a mower that has a good dealer support.<p>Hope this helps!<p>from:Adam<br>AB Lawn Care

[Keith]

I am going to be different, I am going to say the Kees ZTMax :) Why, because it's a Lazer with different fuel tanks. It has a two gallon hydro tank with a small cooler. However I haven't heard of Lazers having a big problem with hydro failures. As far as the mule drive belt system, I wasn't too sure about it the first time I looked at it, but I haven't found it to cause any problems. <p>The real reason I chose it was the lack of Exmark dealers or rather lack of Exmark dealers I wanted to deal with. It also liked the warranty.

[yardsmith]

hey bdemir-<br> Sounds like you got a good deal! Last spring I got hold of a used steiner 220 with low hrs. & a 60&quot; rear discharge deck for $3000. Man you oughta see the way it stripes! It also holds a hill like nothing else. I can mow across the side of a hill I'd be hesitant to try the walk-behind on. That is one of the main reason I never got into Dixie's too much because they sit up too high for what my route requires. I need something with a lower center of gravity. <br>If you have relatively flat or some rolling terrain, then a dixie runs like you know what. <br>All depends on what your route dictates; that's why there are so many mowers on the market.<p>----------<br>Smitty ô¿ô<p>

[SNOWMAN]

I have run exmark lazers for years now only one belt to replace. Yes they only need 1 <br>quart of syn. oil for the hydros.<br>Demo all of the above its your decission.<br>I have used rhem all once you have been in the business for a while the companies come to you and leave machines with you to try and give your oppions.<br>But I still use the exmark Lazer time is money and you cant sacrifice finished quality!<br>AS for the toro version look at the two decks its a no brainer, why do you think one of the largest manufactures of lawncare equip. bought out exmark!<br>

[A CUT ABOVE]

I agree with Keith. I bought a 61&quot; ZT Max about 6 months ago. I have zero problems. I also bought the Kees because there was not an Exmark dealer nearby that I wanted to deal with. It really is pretty much an Exmark with different gas tanks and a little different deck frame design. Also about $1000 less than Exmark.

[Eric ELM]

As I've said before, the best mower is the one you own. It is the only way you can justify buying it. <p>Snowman, I find it hard to believe that your mower only has 1 quart of oil in the Hydro. They must have a great cooling sytem to keep 1 quart cool. This would have to mean there is no reserve tank. My cooler and filters hold that much, plus the two pumps have to hold another quart and then the two wheel motors have to hold another quart. I am going to have to take another look at them the next time I go to my Dealer. I will demo one at my dealers open house in a couple weeks. He sells them both, but every time I get near a Lazer, he tells me, &quot;you don't want one of them, you already have the best&quot;. I will also ask him why he uses over 30 Dixie Choppers for his lawn business instead of Lazers, since they are cheaper and as you guys say, better. My dealer must be CRAZY! :)<p>----------<br>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.townserver.com/elm/&quot;&gt;Eric@ELM&lt;/a&gt;<br>

[SNOWMAN]

The reason most dealers push on brand over the other is the profit margin in his pocket!

[Lazer]

SNOW,<br>You and I both like eXmarks, but as far as dealer preference, I think there's more factors than just profit margins. What about parts availability? Required floorplan space? Minimium unit orders? At some point customer satisfaction has to play a role and if a dealer really doesn't believe in his product, it'll show.<br>

[Evan528]

Eric, its true..the exmark toro uses only one quart of hydrolic fluid....its one of the advantages!

[Lazer]

Eric, the RESERVIOR holds 1 quart. With the wheel motors, filter and 3/8&quot; lines, there is probably 2-3 quarts.<p>It uses a special oil - (Mobil 1 motor oil) which doesn't break down in the extreme heat with no cooler.

[bdemir]

amsoil is used in choppers and that also is a very good synthetic oil.Sythetic oil will lengthen the life of any transmission or engine.I still believe an oil coller will make it last longer but who knows?<br>

[Eric ELM]

Bdemir, Dixie Chopper uses Shaeffer oil in their hydraulics which they feel is better than Mobil 1, but we won't get into a what's the best oil argument now. They do use an Amsoil by pass filter, which filters down to 1 micron in size plus the regular oil filter. I also feel that oil coolers have to help at least some what, to make the system last longer. If not, it sure looks cool. :)<p>Lazer: I sure appreciate you sticking up for me when I'm getting blasted. After 2 guys said Lazers had a 1 quart hydraulic system, I wanted to believe them, but I was having a hard time. <p>Snowman and Evan, are you 2 wrong on the 1 quart system? If the 1 quart system isn't one of the advantages, what are some of the other advantages. <p>Here is one for you as long as we are getting into hydraulic system advantages. Choppers use a quad-loop hrydraulic system which the only lawn mower company to use them. This system is used on 100 HP and above on other aplications. It seems like over kill, but should hold up for years with only 20 to 50 HP powering them. I know my old Choppers still have the original sytems with zero problems. They might hold a little more oil, but is that a disadvantage? I don't think so.<br>Thanks again Lazer, your a true mow bro. :)<p>----------<br>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.townserver.com/elm/&quot;&gt;Eric@ELM&lt;/a&gt;<p>

[Lazer]

Eric,<br>Don't quote me on the exact size of the Exmark hydro system. You're not supposed to change the oil anyway.<p>To change ALL the oil, you'd need to empty the reservior, filter, hoses, pumps and wheel motors. <p>Nobody does that.<p>The advantage of Exmarks system is it's smaller, has less fittings to potentially leak and no cooler to clean or damage. Less maintenance perhaps? It certainly costs less to build.<p>I think the fact that the oil is sythetic is what really makes a difference. Sythetic oil won't break down at higher temps like organic oil does.<p>

[Keith]

Synthetic oil reduces friction in moving parts. That alone should also reduce the operating temperture a few degrees.<br>

[bdemir]

Sorry bout that i wasnt sure about the amsoil but cant you mix any type of synthetic oil into the hydro system along with the oil that is alreaady in there?<br>

[steve]

I Bought a FERRIS Pro Cut Z With IS Independent Suspension with a 23HP Kawasaki and 61&quot; Deck.<p>And I Have Is 2 words to say about it -- &quot;It's Awesome&quot;!!!!!!!!<p>I Think Everybody on this board has to try it out. You'll want to junk those Exmarks, Encores, Scags, and all those other Junks!!!

[Eric ELM]

The Shaeffer oil is synthetic oil also. I can't find it around here. My dealer said to use the Mobil 1 if you can't find it when you change filters. That is supposed to be the next best thing, according to them.<p>----------<br>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.townserver.com/elm/&quot;&gt;Eric@ELM&lt;/a&gt;<br>

[Lazer]

Steve,<br>We don't have a good Ferris dealer network here. The one Ferris dealer here is a total dufus.<br>But from what I've seen and heard, I think Ferris is on to something.

[Evan528]

About 6 months ago when i was looking to purchase a ztr i demoed thats ferris i/s. i wasnt too impressed. rode good but nothing that great to me. about a hour later i was the proud owner of a toro z master....great cut and smooth ride.

[snake1040]

I rode an IS ferris at a recent show it was a great mower rode very smooth the controls were very smooth. I would have to say even without the IS technology the ferris is one of the smoothest mowers I have ever riden. The only problem with them is like lazer said there are no dealers and I heard you can hardly get parts for them.

[snake1040]

the way everyone talks I need to go try out a dixie chopper. I have recently overlooked them for they are to big and I am afraid people will run me off there yards with it.

[weve]

The oil used in Dixie Chopper's hydraulic system is Shaeffer's Supreme 7000 15W-40. It is a para-synthetic motor oil blended from pure paraffin base oils and synthetic base stocks. It withstands a higher heat range than conventional oils and flows easier in cold weather than a conventional 5W-30 oil. I can get this oil locally or through my Dixie Chopper dealer.<p>----------<br>Larry<br>

[tjg]

I'm in Oklahoma and have always used Grasshoppers 6 different models all together right now I run two 99' 725 25hp Kohlers w/ 52&quot; decks could use 72&quot;. The Grasshoppers have never caused any problems in the past 5 years. I plan to continue to use them. Very few guys here use the exmarks,Dixie Choppers,and Lazers, one guy I know does have a Kees Z Max w/ 61&quot; deck it seems to scalp everywhere,my Grasshoppers don't near as bad.<p>----------<br>T.J. Greenfield<br>

[Keith]

Well I own both. I have Kees ZTMax w/25 Kohler 61&quot; deck and a 721 Grasshopper 21 Kubota 52&quot; deck.<p>Neither scalp too often. It can be avoided with either machine. <br>

[tjg]

Well I met Kubota and not Kohler,forgot one thing Keith is your 721 a Kubota diesel,I had two new ones in 98 and one gave me problems w/overheating, was woundering about your.I agree 99% I can avoid scalping. He may have some new help or he could have been in a hurry.<p>----------<br>T.J. Greenfield<br>

[docshank]

tjg,<p>I run a Grasshopper 721D G2 with 61&quot; deck, and have never had any overheating problems. I really like the Kubota engines (best little powerplants made as far as I'm concerned). ;)<p>----------<br>Doc Shank<br>

[Keith]

TJ, my Grasshopper has the 21 Gas Kubota. It is a damn good engine. Never had any real overheating problem. After it had been used for about four years, it started running a little hotter than it used to. It had a little grass and dirt build-up that had gotten past the radiator screen over that period of time. I took the radiator out and cleaned the fins with compressed air and that cooled it off.<p>I am not real pleased with Grasshopper's service and that is why I haven't bought another one.

[SNOWMAN]

I used grasshoppers 725 liquid cooled can't say any thing bad about the mower but the cut will never match the lazer.<br>Once I started running the lazer replaced all my Grasshoppers with exmark lazers.

[tjg]

Would like to try one of the Exmark Lazers, but no one deals w/ them around here mainly just the Grasshoppers are the most common.The main plant wear they are made is within 3.5hrs form here.<p>----------<br>T.J. Greenfield<br>

[tjg]

Would like to try one of the Exmark Lazers, but no one deals w/ them around here mainly just the Grasshoppers are the most common.The main plant wear they are made is within 3.5hrs form here.<p>----------<br>T.J. Greenfield<br>

[docshank]

tjg,<p>Have you demoed one of Grasshopper's new mid-mount mowers yet? I haven't drove one of them, but I have taken a look at one that was in my dealer's showroom. It looks like a very well built machine (well thought out design too). It has a newly designed deck also (1&quot; deeper and has anti-scalp wheels front and back). The only thing I don't like about it is it's not offered with a Kubota engine.<p>----------<br>Doc Shank<br>

[WOLF]

tjg,<p>Try diamond p forest products in Tulsa. They carry the exmark brand.<br>

[tjg]

Doc Shank I haven't tried the new mid mount yet,one reason they don't offer a liquid cooled Kubota, also the one I seen was still in the crate it was about the first one even out ,I was dealing w/ the main Distributor for Ok.,Ks,and part of Texas just 30 miles west of me. I DO plan to try one soon. Wolf I'll have to check out the place in Tulsa Saturday going there anyways to pick-up 6 pallets of fescue sod. To everyone about the little overheating deal it wasn't a BIG problem but even the dealer said it was unusal.It was taking care of when I traded it in. <p>----------<br>T.J. Greenfield<br>

[cjcland]

i was looking at the dixie chopper site and they had a twin engine diesel (2 25hp) is that enough? i think you could mulch logs with that<p>----------<br>CJC Landscape Management<br>Winter Haven, Florida

[sue]

i have a question for smitty? i would like to know where you buy a bobcat z200 for 7,000? we were quoted 12,000 here for the same exact mower? <br> sue

[gorrell]

Sue, I think he's in the ball park on the $7000 figure. I could have bought one last fall at Outdoor Equipment's open house in St. Louis. Thanks, Lynn

[Retro67]

Sue-<p>Call Arlington Power in the Chicago Suburbs 847-253-5727. Same mower for $6349. Call 1- 877-DO-Russo they have it for $6380. Both dealers carry other popular brands. Arlington carries Ferris which is my preference.&lt;p&gt; If you keep letting the dealers take advantage, they will take your money til you stop giving it to them.&lt;p&gt;John

[fdew]

snake1040 was saying that it might be hard to get parts for Ferris. I don't know if this is good or bad news but Ferris has been bought by Simplicity. Simplicity is selling the whole ferris line under the name &quot;Durby, Built by Ferris Industries . . . a Simplicity Company&quot; This should at least make it easer to get parts. See<br>http://www.simplicitymfg.com/derby/index.htm<p>Frank

[Retro67]

I checked out the Derby brand mowers. Can see both the Ferris and Simplicity in them. I'll bet they will sell well in the homeowners market. The suggested prices are lower than the Ferris line, so they are obviously built with the homeowner in mind. They are probably better than some commercial units.&lt;p&gt;I can get any part within 24 hours. Maybe can't get it covered by warranty in 24 hours, but I've yet to have a problem. Many times a fumbling dealer ends up making a company be the scapegoat when the dealer doesn't follow through with his responsibilities to follow up your parts order, repair, etc. I don't have anything against dealers, just inefficiency. The world is full of it and I have a hard time accepting that fact.&lt;p&gt; I understand why people complain that their competition does such a poor job. Look around you. It's not just people in our occupation, it's everywhere. Some people just don't have a clue when it comes to taking care of responsibilities in an effective manner. If I had a dime for every person that I solicited that promised to call me back and didn't, I'd stop mowing and start collecting dimes.&lt;p&gt;John<br>

[MowerUp]

I have a great dane and really like it. It has about 80 hours and I bought it new. I would like to hear from other Great Dane owners.<br>

[walkerrider]

I would second the walker advise. I have tried the Lazer thought it was a great machine but needed to bag and I didn't what the extra luggage you need on the exmark. Didn't like the toro decks. Scag cougar looked nice but would like to see a little track time coming off their previous failure. Chose Walker MT48GHS w/ 25Hp Kohler. Im counting on the Kohler problems being solved. So far the machine has lived up to it reputation. Great cut, great bagging system and smooth solid feel. Great in tight areas and speed can be bumped up with a spped kit.

[grasscapeinc]

Hey Eric, does your chopper dealer sell 10w-40 synthetic?

[grasscapeinc]

Hey Eric, does your chopper dealer sell 10w-40 synthetic?

[columbiaplower]

One word EXMARK<br>in my opinion exmark is the industry leader.<br>dixie chopper is my second choice.<p>-Nick<br>

[TylerAssociatesLLC]

one that is productive and reliable

[AGG Lawn Maintenance]

I used to have a Hustler 400 with the high lift back vac 72&quot; deck. It was good in its day. Now its too hard to get parts for it in my area. Takes up too much space on a trailer too. Now a days they make more compact ztr mowers. Exmark and Bobcat ZTR's <br>are big around here. I like Bobcat I can get parts from three dealers right in town, and another four out of town along my cutting routes. One dealer even gives you a loaner mower till the fix yours. Walker ZTR's are also good if you have those retirement complexs with 5,000 sq feet, no fences and about 1,000 homes per complex. But I think it breaks down to preference with the Scags,Bobcat,Exmark etc. I would go with one where you can get parts at a couple different places in your area, and fast repairs also. Down time will kill you!!! Thats why after all the years I had the Hustler I sold it. The dealer in my area stopped selling them. I would have had to drive 30-40 miles for the nearest dealer.<br>Travis <br>AG&G Lawn Maintenance :) <br>

[1stclasslawns]

I also have recently bought a Great Dane! LOVE IT!!!!!! <br>If it were any better I couldnt stand it.<br>I looked at a bunch the only one I didnt look at was the ferris cause nobody handel them around here.<br>I chose the Dane because of local severice. Only them and snapper in town. Skag was second chioce dealer 30 min away. No chopper dealers with in an hours drive and exmarks are the same, thats on a good day. <br>But the Dane is somthing else.<br>Jim

[coldbrook landscapin]

well i must be the only one here in this bussiness using a kubota.. mines a gf1800 4 wheel drive 18horse power with a 52 inch deck with a 12 bushel bagger unit... love the diesel over gas any day lots more tork works very well in wet grass and even picks up pine needles with ease.. with the 5 gallon tank it will give me up to 12 hours before refueling. the only problem i can see with it is the price this one cost me close to 16,000 dollars before finance charges !! could of got two z's