Formed or Fabricated Decks???

[Scott Campbell]

I was curious about the general opinion from everybody about the two basic decks on ztr's. Have any of you noticed a considerable difference between the two? Does one have better pick up than the other? How about longevitiy? Are formed decks more prone to crack? Is one a better mulching deck than the other?

[Eric ELM]

I like the Fabricated deck best. It has better lift to stand the grass up to get cut off at higher speeds in my opinion. The only mulching I do is leaves and I picked up leaves back when I used a Formed deck, so I can't compare that part. I have never had any cracking problems with either.
I hope this helps
Eric

[Kent Lawns]

Your talking about 2 different methods of manufacture.

In theory, it doesn't have any bearing on the questions you asked. This is important because one isn't better than the other in any way by being formed or fabbed.

In reality, forming a deck is faster and costs less. Fabrication more easily lends ifself to thicker, heavier gauge steel and generally more time is put into design, constuction and baffling. Heavier steels lends itself to making deeper decks, too.

In short, it is largely a matter of practicality that fabricated decks generally have more vacuum, longer life, less prone to cracking and have better mulching cababilities.

[bob]

Deck info, http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?threadid=3850

More info, http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?threadid=1246

[lawrence stone]

Stamped decks flow better. Since they move air=clippings better they don't build up as much lawn dukey to the deck.

Fab decks usually have corners where the clippings get hung up and build up.

[lee b]

Eric, have you seen the new 7-iron decks on JD ztr. They are extremely thick, 7-gauge steel, and don,t have a single corner to catch grass in. I would agree with you on all decks but these. They cut very good, as good as any fab. deck. JD uses a 4 million ton press to form these decks. The rest of the mower may not be quite as good as a dc or lazer, since they only offer Kohler engines. But I believe the deck is great. If JD does their homework and improves these mowers in other areas, engines, maybe 72' deck, higher blade speed, better seat, with their service; I think you'll see'em eat into other companys sales. Just my opinion and you know some stink.

[Eric ELM]

I have seen them at the dealer when they came out. They look a lot like the 60" deck I already have. I was amazed that John Deere didn't get into the ZTR market a long time ago. We have several dealers around here for them, but I haven't seen 1 JD ZTR out cutting yet. I didn't look under it, is it a belt drive or PTO drive?

[lee b]

Eric, the JD ztr uses belt drive. I don't know what the blade tip speed is and dealer doesn't either. From what I've seen {I haven't demoed one, just saw one cut alittle bit, in a rough spot} the JD will handle alot of grass and cuts fast and smooth. Ya'll have convinced me to go for a lazer, but I still have a soft spot for green paint. If JD will improve their engine choices and a few other minor details I believe they will have a very good mower. And I know nobody can beat their commitment to service. Plus in my situation the JD would be ideal, the dealership is only half a mile away from every property I mow.

[Eric ELM]

I'm surprised they use Kohlers on them. They used to use Kawasaki's or the Yanmar on about everything. It must of been what Kees was using on the tractor part of this machine. I wonder what they will use now that they bought Great Dane?

It's sort of like MTD uses the Kohler on their Pro ZTR, but they put a Kawasaki on the Lesco version. I wonder what they are putting on the Cub Caddet they build now?

[Grassman]

Lee, the only part of their midmount z that is built by JD is the 7Irn deck. The rest of the mower is built by KEES for JD. I don't know the prices of each, but I bet the regular KEES mower is just as good and substantionally cheaper. Russ

[lee b]

I believe Kees uses Kohlers and thats why their in JD's ztr. Both of my JD tractors have Kawasaki engines but they also offer a couple tractors with Briggs { they don't sell near as many of these}. I dearly love my kawasaki engines, especially the 20hp, the 27LC must be awesome. I also liked Kohlers until I started reading lawnsite and heard about the 25 disease.

[mmorgan]

lee, you have just scared me!! what is the 25 disease? I have not heard of that.
I own 2 JDM665's I agree that other engine choices would be better. I talked to a John Deere Rep. at Mid-Am in Chicago. They have no plans for a liquid cooled gas or a diesel engine option. They say a liquid cooled would cost to much pricing the mower out of competitivenes, and the diesel is just to loud. They will not make a 72 either. They say they will not sell enough of them to make it worth their while. I expressed my disappointment.
I feel the decks are great. I never have to scrape the underside of the deck and I change blades daily.
I would like to see a few improvements as well, but with few commercial dealers near me and my JD dealer on the edge of town who provides service unsurpassed by any, it is hard for me to look elsewhere. While at the show I looked at Grasshopper and a Scag. The Scag was shaft driven and I like that a lot. Problem is the Scag dealer closest to me is probly in Chicago!!
P.S. blade tip speed is 12,500

[Edited by mmorgan on 01-21-2001 at 12:47 PM]

[lee b]

Matthew, I only know what I've read on this forum about "Kohler disease". The best I can understand is that the gaskets on 25hp. Kohlers are prone to giving away. I believe that they have remedied the problem on newer engines. But their reputation has been tarnished somewhat. And if you're going to spend big bucks on a new mower you really want the best you can get. They may be great engines now, but, I always have a little apprehension about Kohlers compared to Kawasaki engines. I hope yours do great. I had a 12.5hp. Kohler on a JD mower that I used around my farm for 10 years and {I hate to admit this} that I only changed the oil in once in those 10 years. Everything else wore out so I parked it, BUT, the engine still runs great and never burnt a drop of oil in 10 years of constant abuse, I mowed 4 yards and around the farm with it every week. This speaks very highly of that particular engine.

[ncmow]

I myself was significantly impressed w/ the 7-Iron decks on the JDs. I demoed the M665 against a 61" Scag Advantage deck and a 72" Exmark w/ LC Kaw engine. Back in early fall, we took these three machines down to a hay field close to my house. These grass conditions were terrible. Myself and 2 friend were running lengths around 100 yds long. The deere was down and back before either of the other 2 mowers were at the end of their first pass. Their engines kept bogging down because they could not process or discharge the amount of grass as the JD. (Granted the Exmark was 72 incher). On top of that, the JD left a manicured looking cut. Just thought I let you guys in my personal experienc.

[Eric ELM]

Lee:
Usually if a Kohler 25 goes bad, it is in the first 30 hours. Some take 100 hours to go bad. If they hold up past 200, they just keep running fine from what most on this forum are saying. I've had great luck with Kohler, but I have never had a 25 HP Kohler. One good thing is they do have a 2 year warranty, so this does help.

Ncmow:
What is the price on this new JD mid mount?
Does it have hydro coolers?
Does it have a motor oil cooler?
I have never stopped to take a good look at one.

Eric

[lee b]

Eric, thanks for the info. If the problem with 25 hp. Kohlers usually shows up that quick, while its still under warranty, it doesn't sound that bad, because it ain't gonna cost you nothing but a little downtime. If the engine has no problem past this point, do they hold up well? I was quoted a price of $7000.00 on a new m665 last week, does that sound about right? I know they have hydro coolers, but don't know about auxillary engine cooling.

[ncmow]

Hey Eric,
Sorry so long in getting back to you. Yeah, they've got hydraulic and engine oil coolers and from what I have priced, $7k is an outstanding price. I've seen from $8K to $8.5K but of course the premium is parts and service.

[John DiMartino]

Ice,save your money,I have a 2000 Kohler 25HP-e-mail me privately i dont want to start on here again about it.It's the engine,and the company behind them-believe me dont buy it,you are rolling the dice and the odds are much worse than with 99% of the other choices.

[Eric ELM]

ncmow:

That does sound like a good price for one. I'm surprised they are that low in price. My JD diesel listed for $12,000 10 years ago, but I got it for $10,000. Let us know how they hold up.

Eric