Manually transplanting small trees

[shadybz]

Newbie to the forums, but from what I can tell there are alot of people here that really know their stuff. So thanks in advance!

I recently came across some concolor fir, serbian spruce, Norway spruce, and blue spruce all in the 1 foot to 4 foot range.

Here is the dilema. I need to dig these trees and replant them at my nursery. The trees, however, are too close to be dug with our skid steer without running over the trees i dont want.

Any ideas on the best way to do this? What do you think about using a16 inch Tree Toad? Do you think hand digging will work well? The soil is some what sandy and not real hard.

[sheshovel]

If your digging them from the wild,or from a national forest or park ,there are laws against this,here it is a $2000.00 fine if your caught digging or transporting a forest grown tree.If you are not,Then by what you discribe you will be damaging alot of good trees to get to the ones you want to make a buck on.I don't think that's a good thing at all.Sounds as though your "just came upon them"is somebody elses property and tree's or they are owned by the U.S.A. and they are not yours to take they are there for us to enjoy,all of us not just you.

[shadybz]

The trees are on 40 acres that used to be a seedling nursery. A developer just bought it and is turning it into a subdivision. I just hate to see all of those trees Bulldozed. So how about it, any ideas?

[activelandscaping]

I don't know what percentage of the trees you want to take, but you could always spade out a path and replant. I would take the Bobcat and a shovel, if their too tough to hand dig then you will need to sacrifice some time or some trees.

Don't know how much help this is, but I don't see any other viable options.

Best of luck,
Active

[GreenMonster]

I would take the Bobcat and a shovel, if their too tough to hand dig then you will need to sacrifice some time or some trees.

Don't know how much help this is, but I don't see any other viable options.

Best of luck,
Active

I did something similar a few years ago. A friend bought a house where the previous owner had a "hobby" tree farm. I hated to see them all go (they were putting in a horse paddock :rolleyes: ) so we made one trip and dug them out by hand. These where anywhere from 1'-7' trees. By hand was a lot of work, so we decided we would sacrifice some of them and came back with a dozer. We pseudo burlap wrapped them, and transplanted at my house, in-laws, and a friends. Sprayed em with wilt-pruf first.

I "harvested" 12 under 5', and all survived. I took 4 over 7', and 3 out of 4 made it. Now, some of the other folks with us, that didn't take as much care to keep a root ball, and wrap them up, their success rate was not nearly as good.

They were in rough shape -- literally, they hadn't been pruned in a long while. Now after three seasons of pruning for shape, they're looking pretty good.

[treedoc1]

http://www.freeplants.com/frame%20set.htm

then scroll the left hand menu to find the instructions

[sheshovel]

Newbie to the forums, but from what I can tell there are alot of people here that really know their stuff. So thanks in advance!

I recently came across some concolor fir, serbian spruce, Norway spruce, and blue spruce all in the 1 foot to 4 foot range.

Here is the dilema. I need to dig these trees and replant them at my nursery. The trees, however, are too close to be dug with our skid steer without running over the trees i dont want.

Any ideas on the best way to do this? What do you think about using a16 inch Tree Toad? Do you think hand digging will work well? The soil is some what sandy and not real hard.
Well then if that's the case I would hand dig the small 1'to3' trees with as big of a rootball as you can, have wet burlap on hand laying open on a tarp and just take tree immediatly from hole to burlap,tie,keep moist.digas many as you can and drag out of the area on tarp if feasible.That is if you want to keep from damaging the other trees in the way,if no othe option is available,if you hate to see the little ones go to waste,and the guy is clearing the land,why don't you make arrangements with him that will allow you to take them AFTER the big ones have ben removed by clearing?Sorry about my assuming in my last post.

[activelandscaping]

shadybz,
Location: Hudsonville,MI

Hudsonville Huh.............
Well, I guess you won't be busy cutting your lawn on Sunday.
You could always try the old Tom Sawyer approach..... " Free to good home......Dig 2 trees and take 1 with you..... ". :D

Best of luck,
Active

[Coffeecraver]

Many roots extend beyond the longest branches a distance equal
to two or more times the height of the tree.

When digging a plant to transplant it make sure you get enough roots.
The rule of thumb is for every 1" of trunk caliper you should have 12" of
root ball. The caliper of a tree is the diameter of the trunk approximately
6" off the ground.

You must duplicate their natural growing environments as closely as possible
if they are to thrive.

:)

[activelandscaping]

Pretty much what Coffee said.

I believe the recommended method, given enough time, is to cut 1/3 of the roots at the desired ball size then wait a specified period of time & cut another 1/3 etc.......... until you have a ball with feeder roots established ( w/o having moved the tree ). I have a feeling that this method is highly praised but rarely practiced. If, however, you have the time it's probably worth looking into.
Coffee might be able to elaborate, or correct my methodology should I be misinformed/misinforming.

Regards,
Active

[shadybz]

Thanks for the great advice guys! Has anybody had any success with putting them in pots? I was thinking it might be easier and quicker to put them in fiber pots, transport them to my nursery, and then put them in the ground to grow to specimen size. We have 90, 60, 45 inch tree spades so we can move some pretty big trees. I just have never tried hand digging anything small. Oh by the way, what kind of shovel do you recommend?

[AGLA]

One thing that I just can not get over is how machine dependent this generation of green industry people have become. I'm not saying it is bad, but it is very different than it used to be. I honestly was surprised to see no one comment on the possibility of digging 1' to 4' tall conifers by hand while I'm wondering why any other method could be more correct.

I guess I am getting old. But, when I see some landscapers rip, pull, and otherwise hack a plant ball and have no clue how to transplant without a tree spade, I should not be surprised. We, as an industry are loosing our skills. Almost all maintenance is run and gun. Volume is high, but the quality is low. I realize that there are more customers looking for run and gun for cost efficiency, but there is going to be no one left to do the high quality maintenance.

[MarcusLndscp]

Once again, I couldn't agree with you more AGLA. As we've discussed in the past, it is very easy for someone to call themselves a landscaper. Sometimes I'm not so sure if half of these guys have ever even heard the word horticulture. The thought of using a spade for trees this size, as stated, is not wrong but in the soil conditions described really wouldn't take all that long with a shovel. I have been fortunate enough to have been taught how to dig large trees by hand by an older gentleman a few years back and it is some fun to do. Then when you see that tree survive year after year without a sign of stress.......well it is quite rewarding. This year we've done quite a few Maples in the 8-14" caliper range, no spade just a good pair of loppers, shovel, maybe a pick axe. Now that's fun.
Just got back from Falmouth an hour ago...........went to the Pats game sunday and then went down for a visit with the family for the day. Hope all is going well with you.

[Staffordnurseries]

Early on with my christmas tree farm I let a transplant bed get away from me. Got many good trees out with a shovel, I chose the best ones and sacrificed the others. Those trees that survived well from one to two feet. Three of four foot high I couldnt get enough root out to support them so those were the ones I ignored. Bigger isnt alwys better or stronger, the bigger ones demand more to survive. The choice I made was grab the small ones with adequate roots. I took the position that I blew it by not transplanting faster, any saved were a gain

[sheshovel]

One thing that I just can not get over is how machine dependent this generation of green industry people have become. I'm not saying it is bad, but it is very different than it used to be. I honestly was surprised to see no one comment on the possibility of digging 1' to 4' tall conifers by hand while I'm wondering why any other method could be more correct.

I guess I am getting old. But, when I see some landscapers rip, pull, and otherwise hack a plant ball and have no clue how to transplant without a tree spade, I should not be surprised. We, as an industry are loosing our skills. Almost all maintenance is run and gun. Volume is high, but the quality is low. I realize that there are more customers looking for run and gun for cost efficiency, but there is going to be no one left to do the high quality maintenance. Sheshovel did reccomend hand digging read again!You won't see me doing anything else but handwork with hand tools in a garden,All hope is not lost,there are still some of us out there!

[sheshovel]

A good wooden handled /made in the U.S.A./tempered steel shovel/ that has the widest area where you put your foot to push shovel into the soil .Let the shovel do the work,Stand it upright and put your foot fully on it and push streight down into the soil,not at a side/slide angle.I use an older trenching spade with a handle that you can put your hand thru and grip it,, to cut my 1st cuts all around the tree,Thease slice roots very easy if SHARP.Then use my digging shovel to do the rest.Good luck !

[activelandscaping]

One thing that I just can not get over is how machine dependent this generation of green industry people have become. I'm not saying it is bad, but it is very different than it used to be. I honestly was surprised to see no one comment on the possibility of digging 1' to 4' tall conifers by hand while I'm wondering why any other method could be more correct.

Actually there were several references to hand digging, although I certainly do agree that we are becoming a little too machine dependent. I think it's a little tough sometimes to find the " top of the bell shaped curve" when deciding whether to use machinery or manpower. I think the less hand digging contractors do the more the top of the curve shifts to machine work. The muscle conditioning gained from everyday hand digging just isn't there anymore, fatigued workers slow the job down. In the summer we work 12 to 15 hour days and I have to take that into account when I task my workers.

Link: Tree Spades... (http://www.treecareindustry.org/content/pubs/November%202002%20TCI%20-%20Long-Lived%20Tree%20Spades.htm)

One big advantage of using a Tree Spade, especially in sandy (unstable) soils, is it's ability to keep the soil packed around the roots. This helps to prevent root desiccation during transport. It has been shown that trees transplanted using Tree Spades have a higher survivability rate than other methods. I have provided a link to that effect above. That being said, using a spade to dig a 2' or smaller tree would be insanity. You could have it out of the ground with a shovel before the Spade could be aligned.

This year we've done quite a few Maples in the 8-14" caliper range, no spade just a good pair of loppers, shovel, maybe a pick axe. Now that's fun.

MarcusLndscp,
I was curious as to which of the implements, in your list, you used to move a 4000 lb tree? I have heard of people doing some odd things for fun, but hand digging 2-4 yards of dirt never was among them. Should you ever run out of fun in VT let me know, I can line up all the fun you can handle here in MI. :)

Regards,
Active

[shadybz]

Good idea Marcus! I have some 10 inch caliper Locust I would love to see these guys move by hand. I also live in Michigan, so between the two of us we could keep them pretty busy. Some people just cant give in to modern technology. They continue to work hard, but not smart.

[MarcusLndscp]

I'm not saying we hand dig every tree a client wants moved.....we have used spades for some trees if access allows it, we have simply dug around trees with a back hoe or excavator and then moved it, hell we've in extreme cases done the old put the forks under it and rip it out method when we've had no other option. I think all AGLA and I were saying is that in our industry today we have all become so dependent on equipment that it is always our first choice. Some people I know will not do a job if they can't do it with equipment and I'm not so sure that's the right mind set to have. For instance earlier this year a client wanted 3 maples moved...the catch was that when we had dig safe come all the main power for the neighborhood, the cable, the telephone and fiberoptics all ran within feet of the trees and the utility companies would not allow us to put a backhoe in the ground. So you tell me.....you have a client willing to pay you to move them no matter what the cost. Would you used a piece of equipment? I think not. So instead here we go digging away by hand at two trees that were about 12" caliper and one about 8-10". The job went well, the client was pleased, the trees never skipped a beat, and the only piece of equipment we used was a loader to remove them from the holes.
Modern technology has advanced our industry in a very positive way...please don't get me wrong.....but when equipment is not an option why not use a wheel barrell and shovel??? You read questions on this sight from people asking about equipment and does anyone know one that is narrow enough to fit through a gate because there is no other access and they need to get 20 yards of soil in the back yard. So rather than doing a little physical labor they would rather go rent a piece of equipment for a day. We recently finished a 1200 sf flagstone patio that was surrounded by stone walls on two sides a river on one and a huge Concolor Fir on the other. The house also had a deck that came off the 2nd story and had all the posts holding it up so this was also a restriction since the two level patio with new walls in between were beneath the deck. So instead of turning down a $500,000 job (this was not the cost just for the patio and walls) we manually brought in 44 yards of gravel for the base, 28 tons of wall stone, 3 tri axle loads of flagging, 30 yards of soil etc etc. I don't know if it's just me but I think that's being smart.
In the end all I'm saying is be flexible and maybe even entertain a little physical labor to make your client happy.

[sheshovel]

Good idea Marcus! I have some 10 inch caliper Locust I would love to see these guys move by hand. I also live in Michigan, so between the two of us we could keep them pretty busy. Some people just cant give in to modern technology. They continue to work hard, but not smart.
You were speaking of 1'& 2' conifers,that has nothing to do with nor does it compare with
the locust trees you so abruptly bring up.
I said nothing
about not using equiptment when neccesary,But you were concerned with damaging the other trees in the way REMEMBER??That's why I said dig um by hand
,read before you judge.
And do not imply that we do not work smart
when we were trying to answer your questions and help to solve your problem.
I find that extreemly rude.

[Rollacosta]

imo the quickest and best way to dig out young trees would be using an air-spade and loppers

[shadybz]

An air spade is a great idea Rollacosta! I wish I had that advice earlier. I just got done hand digging 90 trees today. It took about 5 hours with 2 guys to get the job done. We hand dug them with a balling spade which is extremely sharp and has serrated edges for a clean cut. We then carefully put them into fiber pots and watered them thoroughly to get out any air pockets.

[jwholden]

You guys got me motivated to do some hand digging myself. My savior was that the soil was a nice sandy loam with minimal rocks. What a pleasure!

[activelandscaping]

You guys got me motivated to do some hand digging myself. My savior was that the soil was a nice sandy loam with minimal rocks. What a pleasure!

I have heard of sandy loam, but almost never see it. Nice root ball.

Ummm...............You may want to consider cutting back a little of the foliage though, cuts back on the water requirements of the plant. :)

Regards,
Active

[jwholden]

Cutting back the foliage would also stimulate tender new growth as we are going into winter. I don't cut back unless it is an overgrown shrub that needs to be cut back anyway, such as a forsythia. I'm sure that this statement will start a debate, but cutting back when translplanting is 'old school'.

[activelandscaping]

Cutting back the foliage would also stimulate tender new growth as we are going into winter. I don't cut back unless it is an overgrown shrub that needs to be cut back anyway, such as a forsythia. I'm sure that this statement will start a debate, but cutting back when transplanting is 'old school'.

Sorry about that. I thought, from the picture, it was a Rhododendron.

Regards,
Active

[jwholden]

Active,

It is a Rhodie, and a large one at that. I am moving it to screen the parking lot you see in the background.

[DUSTYCEDAR]

--------------

[JRSlawn]

Are sure that isn't a mullberry

[MarcusLndscp]

here we go with one sugar maple, by the way that's not me