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View Full Version : Why a stander?


Mo Green
11-17-2004, 09:44 PM
I've heard alot of guys talking about running standers. Why use one instead of a ZTR? I've never used a stander and wanted to know what their advantages are over ZTRs.

CharlieBingo
11-17-2004, 09:48 PM
Visibility, easier on lower back,more compact & manueverible,safer on hills.

Mo Green
11-17-2004, 09:53 PM
Good answer. Thanks.

FosterLawnscaping
11-17-2004, 09:59 PM
My 52 inch super surfer takes up less room on the trailer than my 48 inch walk behind or a ztr. But like he said, great on hills and great visibility. Plus you develop good sea-legs.

wissel_landscaping
11-17-2004, 10:06 PM
easy to bail out if you get in a situation.

proenterprises
11-17-2004, 10:12 PM
easy to bail out if you get in a situation.


very true, try bailing out of a zrt, tough!

impactlandscaping
11-17-2004, 10:46 PM
A must have for "unfriendly" landscaping layouts..areas where Z's can't get to, a Stander can get in and out much faster and with higher productivity than a walk behind. I take mine everywhere I took the WB's and then some. I can fit 2 48" Standers on my 10' Hydroseeding trailer w/ breathing room, and will have 3 of them on a 14' trailer come spring.If you have a Wright dealer or JD dealer, try a demo and see for yourself. I love my Standers..

EastProLawn
11-17-2004, 10:52 PM
easy to bail out if you get in a situation.You said it, I have a Stander and I love it, I had to bail once, thank god it was a Stander. :)

smlavin
11-17-2004, 10:54 PM
Impact,

Why did you choose to go with 48" over 54'? Will 48" squeeeeeeeze through 48" gates that a 54" could never do or is there some other reason?

I like the wider tires and trim side on a 54" but not if a 48" will actually go through most 4ft gates.

Thanks

impactlandscaping
11-17-2004, 11:03 PM
We actually had two clients with gates that were too small to get the new mowers through, so I offered to split the cost of a new gate with them 50 / 50..only one took me up on it, the other didn't mind paying the whole bill. I got a really great deal on my Standers this June, and 48 was the choice based on that..I plan on buying a new 23 / 52" in March or April , and both gates are now double 4 ft opposed gates that swing out to 8', so we are limitless to equipment back there now. And no, it won't fit thru a single 4 ft gate...we tried before while demoing..I had trouble getting my 48" Snapper WB thru 4' gates.

GreenMonster
11-18-2004, 12:10 AM
I think standers are a great compromise. For me, I have some wide open mowing that wasn't much fun with the 60" w/b, even with the velkie. However, I have a lot of tight areas and lots of obstacles, where a ztr would be too big. So, the stander for me (j.d.) was a great medium. It's MUCH faster in the tight areas that I have than the w/b. I shaved 50% my mowing time on some properties!

impactlandscaping
11-18-2004, 10:53 AM
. I shaved 50% my mowing time on some properties!


Same here...can't believe it until you see it.Some are down even more than that<a href='http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb008_ZSXXXXXX44US' target='_blank'><img src='http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_11.gif' border=0></a>

PrecisionLawnsInc
11-18-2004, 11:08 AM
After owning our stander for a full season now I consider it to be the best tight area mower on the market. It simply goes places that other mowers of its size cant due to its short length. I dont think there is a better mower for commercial cutters on residential lawns. When we expand in to two crews I would like to have a residential only crew with 2 48 in standers and a 32 inch velke mower. We currently have a 36 inch stander and my only complaint is I think its too much weight for the narrow tires and therefore tracks too bad (in fescue lawns, bluegrass and zoysia are never a problem). I belive that a pair of 48 inch standers can be taken into any yard regardless of size and theres no gate a 32 incher wont get through. I know that there is going to be a 32 inch stander soon but unless they shed some weight from it I would settle for the less maneuverability of a walk so I'm not leaving tracks.

Also part of our tracking problem is due to the fact we cut at 3 inches. I think if we were to go a little lower (maybe 2.75 or 2.5) it wouldnt be as bad but its still grow and we are still mowing because we have cut it higher.

SOOOOO, to sum it up I dont think the 42 inch and bigger standers can be beaten. :cool2:

Ty

smlavin
11-18-2004, 09:27 PM
Precision,

Your experience and conviction about the stander is very interesting. From most everything I have read the standers are really impressive but I live in an area with a lot of 48" gates on residential lawns. Would you still feel the 48" stander would have the advantage over a 44" Mini Z (which could do both front and back) if half of your properties forced you to swap mowers and get out the 32" with velky for the back yards?

I am thinking that maybe the efficiency has to do with crew size. For example, does a solo operator with one 44" mower that can go anywhere have an advantage over a guy with a 48" stander to do front lawns with but who has to go back to the trailer and switch mowers to do the back? While the set-up you are talking about appears to have advantages for a 2 or 3 man crew because there is no mower swapping.

Thoughts?

jim dailey
11-18-2004, 09:57 PM
I agree with all that has been said of the stander speed and manueverability. I love the heck out of it over the w/b. The increase in sight is great. And, being able to bail, if necessary, is great also. BUT...the gate situation. I don't understand it. I get thru 48" gates with my 52" GD surfer, no problem. Open the gate and sneak up on it with the OFFSET DECK from the left of the machine. Slowly hook a 90 degree left-hand turn, watching out for the right front tire. Go slowly. If need be, remove the RH half of the gate. BINGO, you are in.

Envision
11-18-2004, 10:29 PM
I agree with several points on the Stander, having migrated to it from a w/b. The only bad thing I can think of is that you sit up higher and sometimes it is hard to get under/around trees without hitting your head, however you have the ability to 'bail' if needed - haven't done this one but it may happen!

As for the 48" gate, the stander is about 49" wide. With that in mind, I mow several properties where there are so called 48" gates, but I have yet to find one that is right at 48". With hinges and the gaps that are placed, most are 50" plus - primarily on wooden privacy fences. Chain-link fences are a different beast, and most those have 36" gates.

Itsgottobegreen
11-19-2004, 12:07 AM
It's MUCH faster in the tight areas that I have than the w/b. I shaved 50% my mowing time on some properties!

I can agree with that. Big time. I got rid of my two 48" walkbehinds. They were so slow compared to the stander. I keep asking myself why didn't I get them sooner.

A must have for "unfriendly" landscaping layouts..areas where Z's can't get to, a Stander can get in and out much faster and with higher productivity than a walk behind. I take mine everywhere I took the WB's and then some.

I can fit 3- 48" Standers on a 14' trailer

I love my Standers..

Dame! Impact you beat me to another stander post. Basically what he said. I really do love my standers.

I got all three of my standers on my 14' trailer with out a problem. I wouldn't run anything else. I can go from a 3 acre lawn to a postage stamp lawn with out a problem. I just can't wait for the 32" stander in the spring. I just got to have one.

PrecisionLawnsInc
11-19-2004, 03:16 AM
smlavin,

Here is my logic. Swaping mowers takes up at minimum 2 minutes. Think of how much grass you can mow with 2 people on 48 inch standers in 2 minutes. With the 48 inch with you are never too big or too small for any lawn. The way I see it is I dont want to pull around mowers I'm not going to use. Also I've seen pictures of many of the jobs some of you guys on here do and they are pretty big. We dont have much in the way of large acreage. Most of our yards are your typical 8-12k square feet subdivision lawns. The reason I like the stander over a mini-z is short wheelbase, I can turn it around in a very small area(side of a house). The reason I would pick the 32 inch velke is that all of the gates we have with the exception of one are the narow 38 inch and 36 inch type. The velke looks like the most maneuverable of the walks due to the way the controls are set up,just like a stander or a Z. Also this setup is based on a 3 man crew with 2 cuting and 1 triming and blowing on most lawns.

Ty

PrecisionLawnsInc
11-19-2004, 03:19 AM
I almost forgot. A stander is lighter and takes up a smaller footprint than a walk or a Z. So I will be able to pull a smaller trailer and burn less gas. Admit it... We are all hurting at the gas pump right now.'

Ty

ICE
11-19-2004, 03:35 AM
Ok, the stander sounds like a good machine, minus the extra height where you may be smacking your head on some lower branches. I have a 48 wb that I can just duck under ( I get below the handle bars) the branches. Handle bar level is about three foot approx. How would you do this with a stander?
Also, how do they tread on slopes? I take it that you can bail easily, but do they hold a slope well?

Envy Lawn Service
11-19-2004, 04:03 AM
60" Wright Sentar (for sale $7500, only 39 hours)

WHY?


On to other things... I totally 100% agree about the short wheelbase/overall length issue. Walkbehind a full size Z owners will just never understand until they try Standers and Mini Z's in tight areas.

But I've heard mixed reviews on hilling ability, turf tearing and cut quality. Come to think of it, I don't think I have ever even seen a picture posted of the cut from a stander type machine. OK guys, where are the pictures at?

Itsgottobegreen
11-19-2004, 09:23 AM
I lost a major acreage account. Its too wide for any of my other accounts. I was going to trade it for a 52" model. But I got a 52" Stander 23 hp for $5000 cash brand new in the crate. I couldn't pass it up. If it was a 52" sentar I would keep it. I love the machine. Its operates just like the stander, except it has a seat and a floating deck.

I will get you some pictures when I go out cutting today.

As for the hills. I got some pictures of that too. They can hold a hill extremely well if you know what your doing. The bail ability is a big factor. One of the reason why I bought it in the first place.

smlavin
11-19-2004, 09:30 AM
Thanks to all who are posting here! This thread contains a lot of good information that is helping me a lot.

From the information I have read so far. I take it that a 48" stander will go into almost all of my properties back yards. That is good news. I also understand that Jim Dailey manages to get his 52" GD into most back yards with 4' gates. Very Impressive!

So I was sold on the stander until Envy comes along and totally confuses me. (Pretty easy to do :blush: ) Because he says standers and the mizi z's have a big advantage over full size z's for my size properties.

So is a mini z really about as maneuverable as a stander? Both will allow me to do most of my jobs with one mower. If so then it really comes down to 3 issues. 1/Stand or sit. 2/ Hill holding ability of the mini z seems greater than a stander. 3/ Standers allow for smaller trailers.

Am I missing any thing else that I should consider?

Thanks guys. You have been most helpful! :waving:

PrecisionLawnsInc
11-19-2004, 04:07 PM
OK guys, where are the pictures at?

Check the pictures forums on here. I have some posted. On one of the lawns you can see what I mean by the 36 inch leaving tracks.

Ty

PrecisionLawnsInc
11-19-2004, 04:11 PM
Hey Itsgottobegreen,

What do you think of the sentar as far as large Z's go. I really like our Z-Master but like the idea of the Sentar being 300 pounds lighter (from what Wright claims) and Shorter. The only thing I dont know about is it doesnt seem like you can stand straight up like on a Stander and the seat doenst look very comfortable (no back). I demoed a Sentar for a few minutes before we bought our stander and wasnt sure what to think since I had never used the stander before (geting used to the controls and all).

Ty

bobbygedd
11-19-2004, 04:31 PM
i almost bought one. dealer talked me out of it saying it's murder on your knees and hips. also heard this from other who have used one. any comments on this?thanx

Fareway Lawncare
11-19-2004, 04:32 PM
Could not use the 36" at all on our Props...Way too much Rutting & the Fixed deck was a Pain in the Azz....Also did not Mulch Well but I Only Had the Block-Off Plate so Hard to tell For Sure.

From What I Understand Wright Will be using the New Narrower 32" Stander Tractor on the 36" & Adding Larger Drive Tires which Should Help....The 32" will Probably be Horrible for rutting unless they Have a Magic Pill.

txlawnking
11-19-2004, 05:27 PM
In a few words.. I Loved mine! I recently sold my 52" Surfer to some dudes up in northern Illinois.. I'm gonna miss mowing my own lawn with it!!

Everybody's already hit the major advantages of Standers.. But Bobby, you asked if they really are hard on your joints, and legs or back?? I say the complete opposite. That thing was the least fatiguing mower I've used.. way faster than even a hydro walk ( in fact as far as outright speed goes, they aren't much slower than even the fastest ztr's eg: dixie's and Hustlers ) more manueverable than anything but a 21" ( heck it's even more maueverable than a 21 if the 21 doesn't have swivel front wheels.. ).

I could go on extolling the many virtues of em' But I will coment on the one thing that ALL of the stand up type mowers lack: POWER!!!! They don't make a 52" or bigger mower of this type with more than 23 hp to the best of my knowledge.. Manufacturers are you listening??!!! More power!! at least 25!! Either way, I believe that the manuverability, speed, and overall flat out EFFICIENCY of the Stand up type mowers cant be beat.. Just hope the 32" Stander can cut the mustard..Can't wait..

smlavin
11-19-2004, 06:12 PM
According to John Deere's website the 48" stander is 53.5" wide with the cute up. This doesn't sound right. Anyone know if this was a misprint?

Envy Lawn Service
11-19-2004, 06:46 PM
So I was sold on the stander until Envy comes along and totally confuses me. (Pretty easy to do :blush: ) Because he says standers and the mizi z's have a big advantage over full size z's for my size properties.

So is a mini z really about as maneuverable as a stander? Both will allow me to do most of my jobs with one mower. If so then it really comes down to 3 issues. 1/Stand or sit. 2/ Hill holding ability of the mini z seems greater than a stander. 3/ Standers allow for smaller trailers.

Dang, sorry to confuse you. God knows I know how that is. Decisions like this are very hard for me also. I nearly pulled my hair out trying to decide between walkbehinds, standers and ZTRs, much less the brand.

However, rationalizing my decision between the three was much easier for me. See, I'm not exactly a healthy guy. I have diabetes, which can be a real challenge to deal with in this business. Embarassing as it is, I just didn't figure I was man enough to stand on my feet all day in the blistering sun. Sometimes I'm mowing hours on end.

So all-in-all, I chickened out on the walkbehinds and standers. My preference there would have been the shorter standers without question. However, none of the ones on the market really seemed to fit the bill for my needs. So I went with the compact ZTR, with 72" overall length for tight places.

However, if I had the physical conditioning and could find a stander package that fit the bill, I sure would like to try one for a season because they are so compact.... Plus I have a bad back and these are 'said' to be easier on the back.

GreenMonster
11-19-2004, 06:49 PM
i almost bought one. dealer talked me out of it saying it's murder on your knees and hips. also heard this from other who have used one. any comments on this?thanx

Bobby, I think your dealer did you a disservice. How can a stander be harder on the knees and hips than a w/b with a sulky? Mine is a lot more comfortable than that w/b set-up. And, it has to be much easier than a w/b WITHOUT a velkie :confused:

Factor in the time savings of the stander over the w/b and I think it is a purchase that is very easy to justify.

Envy Lawn Service
11-19-2004, 07:03 PM
According to John Deere's website the 48" stander is 53.5" wide with the cute up. This doesn't sound right. Anyone know if this was a misprint?
I can't find a spec on that. But it doesn't really sound right. The cutting width is 48" and it has 3/4" thick steel welded to the trim side. So 48.75" plus some clearance inside the deck for the blade sweep.... I'm gonna say 49" or 50" wide. But it may have some chute built into the deck itself. I never really paid that close of attention to the John Deere's I demoed....

GreenMonster
11-19-2004, 07:07 PM
See Envy, that's smart. You considered ALL the factors before choosing your machine. No one machine is right for everyone, that's why there are so many choices.

You shouldn't be embarrassed by your condition. Lots of people with lesser problems sit on their azz and let the state pay their salary.

Yes, I have a bad back too, and prefer the stander over the ZTR.

smlavin
11-19-2004, 11:00 PM
Envy, Thanks for the input. I am leaning toward the stander over the mini z at this point (feet and knees are good - my back is not so good) but I don't think I could go wrong with either choice as long as that 48" deck isn't really 53.5" wide. I'm with you thinking it has to be around 49.5".

MacLawnCo
11-20-2004, 11:59 AM
first do a search: http://lawnsite.com/search.php?searchid=85047

next, i question why one would choose a 48 over a 52. in my experince, my 48 doesnt cut as well as my 52. Im just now starting to really appreciate my machine. Funny thing is that it took me about 250 hours to find out how to set up the deck for a good cut.

what i want to emphasize is that a stander isnt to replace a z, but rather a wb. It does that well. Demo one and see.

green_man
11-20-2004, 01:03 PM
the blade tip speed is higher on the 52 vs. the 48. the longer the blade, the faster the tip is turning (assuming everything else is equal). better cut, more suction. the 42" stander uses two 21" blades that really scream - cuts through anything and sucks it right up.

smlavin
11-20-2004, 01:37 PM
MacLawnCo,
I respect your input but here is what I am thinking.

The only advantage I see a 48" has over a 52" is that it will go thru 4' gates. Jim Dailey get his 52" thru 4' gates but Deere makes a 54" and that extra 2" could prove fatal to this effort.

Every other advantage that I can think of goes to the 52". Higher blade tip speed, better trim, wider drive tires and fewer passes per lawn. Admittedly these are all BIG advantages BUT not if I can't get this size deck in the rear of my properties. Any time gained with the 52" is lost if I then have to switch to a 32" w/b for the rear of the properties.

green man,
This is definitely something to consider that I have overlooked. Thanks.

Itsgottobegreen
11-20-2004, 02:13 PM
Yes, I have a bad back too, and prefer the stander over the ZTR.

Same here, it sucks being 19 with a bad back. I can stand on my stander for 8 to 10 hours with out a problem. But 3 hours on a ZTR and my back is in pain. Because your back is bent when you sit, so all the pressure is at one point. On a stander your back is straight. So the pressure is spread evenly on your back.

PrecisionLawnsInc
11-22-2004, 12:04 PM
I could go on extolling the many virtues of em' But I will coment on the one thing that ALL of the stand up type mowers lack: POWER!!!! They don't make a 52" or bigger mower of this type with more than 23 hp to the best of my knowledge.. Manufacturers are you listening??!!! More power!! at least 25!! Either way, I believe that the manuverability, speed, and overall flat out EFFICIENCY of the Stand up type mowers cant be beat.. Just hope the 32" Stander can cut the mustard..Can't wait..

txlawnking,

Wright makes both the 52 and 61 inch Standers with an available 25 horse kawi. Your prayers are answered :D Time for a new Stander.

And about the 36 inch stander being used on the new 32 inch platform and use bigger tires.... WOOOHOOO! That would get rid of my one (big) complaint and truely make it the best gated yard mower hands down (in my opinion).

Ty

Goodguy001
11-22-2004, 12:20 PM
The 48" Stander is 49" wide.

smlavin
11-22-2004, 02:20 PM
Thanks Goodguy001! That sounds right and really answers my concerns about getting into backyards.