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paponte
11-19-2004, 07:04 PM
Funny, today I had someone on this forum tell me that I overcharge, and that I am a rip off. I thought I would run with that thought, and ask everyone that participates in this forum a very simple but yet important question...


What Are We? :confused:

packerbacker
11-19-2004, 07:08 PM
Funny, today I had someone on this forum tell me that I overcharge, and that I am a rip off. I thought I would run with that thought, and ask everyone that participates in this forum a very simple but yet important question...


What Are We? :confused:






Who was it?

Expert Lawns
11-19-2004, 07:09 PM
competitors, yet colleagues

Smithers
11-19-2004, 07:10 PM
packerbacker, that was funny....funny...

paponte,

we are hardworking individuals, that know what we do best and should get compensated for it properly.

paponte
11-19-2004, 07:12 PM
competitors, yet colleagues

Nope. :)

paponte
11-19-2004, 07:13 PM
packerbacker, that was funny....funny...

paponte,

we are hardworking individuals, that know what we do best and should get compensated for it properly.


Close. :)

packerbacker
11-19-2004, 07:14 PM
packerbacker, that was funny....funny...

paponte,

we are hardworking individuals, that know what we do best and should get compensated for it properly.







I agree but say for a moment your not a LCO, your a common guy who calls a company to have his yard cleaned up and 8 hours later you get a bill for 1000 bucks, nobody can sit here and tell me they wouldnt be shocked. We have the right to set our prices but lets not f*** the system that makes us rich, or at least lower middle class in my case :)

dvmcmrhp52
11-19-2004, 07:15 PM
How about business owners trying to create profit?

ALarsh
11-19-2004, 07:17 PM
Highballers?

packerbacker
11-19-2004, 07:18 PM
Highballers?






Speaking of that i need a drink!

packerbacker
11-19-2004, 07:20 PM
How about business owners trying to create profit?





I would rather charge a few bucks less and know that i had a customer for next year then listen to them squable over the bill

paponte
11-19-2004, 07:32 PM
How about business owners trying to create profit?

Close, it's a 1 word answer. :)

paponte
11-19-2004, 07:33 PM
Highballers?


No, not even close. :)

packerbacker
11-19-2004, 07:33 PM
Close, it's a 1 word answer. :)






Can i have an L Pat?

paponte
11-19-2004, 07:34 PM
I would rather charge a few bucks less and know that i had a customer for next year then listen to them squable over the bill


Wrong answer. That is what we consider a "low baller". :nono:

packerbacker
11-19-2004, 07:36 PM
Wrong answer. That is what we consider a "low baller". :nono:





I like that smilie BUT after 11 years if ive learned to take a little hit on the wallet to keep a customer around.

paponte
11-19-2004, 07:41 PM
I like that smilie BUT after 11 years if ive learned to take a little hit on the wallet to keep a customer around.

Your just like the Energizer bunny, keeps going, and going, and going. I don't sell my price, I sell quality. Which actually incorporates into the answer of the original topic in this thread. :cool2:


What Are We?

packerbacker
11-19-2004, 07:45 PM
Your just like the Energizer bunny, keeps going, and going, and going. I don't sell my price, I sell quality. Which actually incorporates into the answer of the original topic in this thread. :cool2:


What Are We?





I mow lawns, im not paid to think :)

Anyhow, i havent been back here for a while and its nice to see we can still get a good converstion going. Im heading out for a beer, everyone have a good weekend.

dvmcmrhp52
11-19-2004, 07:46 PM
Proffessionals.

o-so-n-so
11-19-2004, 07:51 PM
Businessmen !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

paponte
11-19-2004, 07:53 PM
Proffessionals.


:blob3: !!BINGO!! :blob3:


We are professionals! It should show in our work, and we should be conpensated for our services. I don't ever want to hear we can't get the prices that we charge. It's the people with that attitude that drop their drawers and KILL the rates for all of us AND yourselves. :)

dvmcmrhp52
11-19-2004, 07:55 PM
:blob3: !!BINGO!! :blob3:


We are professionals! It should show in our work, and we should be conpensated for our services. I don't ever want to hear we can't get the prices that we charge. It's the people with that attitude that drop their drawers and KILL the rates fro all of us AND yourselves. :)




Agreed.
Each market has its limits, but it's up to us to push those limits to earn a living.

bobbygedd
11-19-2004, 08:04 PM
i say we are nothing more than scavengers, roaming the earth, bottom feeders, living off the crumbs of the "real people" on the planet. and then, somehow trying to be choosy about what crumbs we eat. then, having the nerve to tell our topfeeders, "more crumbs, i need more crumbs." professionals? ha, ha i say. next the paperboy will put on a uniform, tell me the "right way" to toss the newspaper, call himself an "npo" (news paper operation) then demand to be called a professional.

paponte
11-19-2004, 08:11 PM
i say we are nothing more than scavengers, roaming the earth, bottom feeders, living off the crumbs of the "real people" on the planet. and then, somehow trying to be choosy about what crumbs we eat. then, having the nerve to tell our topfeeders, "more crumbs, i need more crumbs." professionals? ha, ha i say. next the paperboy will put on a uniform, tell me the "right way" to toss the newspaper, call himself an "npo" (news paper operation) then demand to be called a professional.

bobblehead is the perfect example of what sets a professional apart from just another lawn boy. :)

bobbygedd
11-19-2004, 08:15 PM
thank you, thank you very much.

rodfather
11-19-2004, 08:28 PM
Good thread paul..btw, I need another mattress. Turfdude is catching up to me...LOL

rodfather
11-19-2004, 08:29 PM
Forgot, I think I am a professional...and I want to be compensated as well. Period

GreenMonster
11-19-2004, 09:48 PM
:blob3: !!BINGO!! :blob3:


We are professionals! :)

Damn! I knew it right off!

And if you come across as one, you shoud be able to get top market price for that clean-up!

Now, you guys that think two men, eight hours for a clean-up @ $800-$1000 bucks is raping the customer, think about how long it would a homeowner to do it themselves with rakes and brown bags. A weekend, two weekends? More? Their time is valuable to them -- that's why they're hiring you. Your time is valuable as well. Charge approriately for it.

paponte
11-19-2004, 10:07 PM
Now, you guys that think two men, eight hours for a clean-up @ $800-$1000 bucks is raping the customer, think about how long it would a homeowner to do it themselves with rakes and brown bags. A weekend, two weekends? More? Their time is valuable to them -- that's why they're hiring you. Your time is valuable as well. Charge approriately for it.

Why doesn't it take us that long? Cause we are professionals with professional equipment. GET PAID FOR IT!!

olderthandirt
11-19-2004, 11:56 PM
What makes us "Proffessionals" ? Is it our equipment, our knowledge, our lisc and ins?
Proffessional is what you call your self but is it really what we are? or are we just business owners trying to make a buck. If a home owner had the same equipment they could do most of the work we perform at about the same speed with a few exceptions. So I think all we are is the guys with all the equipment and the knowledge to make the job a little easier for ourself.

Mac

out4now
11-20-2004, 12:18 AM
From Ferris Beuller "Don't worry I'm a professional", "a professional what?"
Professional I think can be defined by doing what's required rather than doing it half way to get paid. jmy.02

Mo Green
11-20-2004, 10:13 AM
:blob3: !!BINGO!! :blob3:


We are professionals! It should show in our work, and we should be conpensated for our services. I don't ever want to hear we can't get the prices that we charge. It's the people with that attitude that drop their drawers and KILL the rates for all of us AND yourselves. :)
It doesn't really matter if we view ourselves as professionals, it matters how we are viewed by our customers. A garbage man, excuse me, a waste technician, may view himself as a professional, but to most he is still a garbage man. Just because he calls himself a professional doesn't mean he can charge you $500.00 to pick up your trash.

burnandreturn
11-20-2004, 12:29 PM
Being a "professional" only means you get paid. period. I listen to these posts of you "professionals" and get a laugh. Think about it for a minute.

Most automobile mechanics have more money tied up in one toolbox setup than a LCO has in all the equipment on a sixteen foot trailer. For around $20 to $25 thousand dollars of specialized equipment your have a real good start on running a LCO. That wouldn't even come close on a auto repair shop.
We all complain about getting charged $50 a hour for our auto! What's it take to clean up leaves? Remember they are comparing you to the kid with a rake and trash bags. What they would have to pay them or you. Forget that and you are deluding yourself. The reference to the garbage man was right on. Waste management consultant, perfect!

lawnguyland
11-20-2004, 01:35 PM
Sometimes we are outdoor maids and janitors.
The rest of the time we are accountants, human resources managers, purchasers, certified pesticide applicators, salesmen, landscape designers, horticulturists, marketers, investors, CEOs, mechanics, office managers and much, much more all rolled into one. So pay me. And like it.

gogetter
11-20-2004, 05:16 PM
What's it take to clean up leaves? Remember they are comparing you to the kid with a rake and trash bags. What they would have to pay them or you. Forget that and you are deluding yourself.

I'm not sure I see where you're going with this point. Can you explain further?

paponte
11-20-2004, 05:40 PM
I would have to disagree with those saying we are not professionals. The job we do I have yet to see a homeowner do, never the less most other so called LCO's out there. As far as mechanics, give me their equipment and shop and I bet most of the guys on here could do what they do also. The whole garbage man thing, THEY ARE MAKING MORE THAN MOST OF THE GUYS ON HERE based on prices I have been hearing. Here's what Webster has to say about professionals:

pro∑fes∑sion∑al ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pr-fsh-nl)

adj.

1. Of, relating to, engaged in, or suitable for a profession: lawyers, doctors, and other professional people.

2. Conforming to the standards of a profession: professional behavior.

3. Engaging in a given activity as a source of livelihood or as a career: a professional writer.

4. Performed by persons receiving pay: professional football.

5. Having or showing great skill; expert: a professional repair job.

n.

6. A person following a profession, especially a learned profession.

7. One who earns a living in a given or implied occupation: hired a professional to decorate the house.

8. A skilled practitioner; an expert.

YardPro
11-20-2004, 05:52 PM
we are businesspeople.
our business is providing ladscape services.

charge what the market will bear. personally I am happy to see people getting what i feel are astronomical prices. That means i can start charging more money. also i can use them for people gettting bids.
they are the ones i like to be compared against.

i for one would rather do less work for more money.
I love what i do but don't do it for love,.....that's called a hobby.

lawnguyland
11-20-2004, 06:14 PM
We are...St. John's

Mo Green
11-20-2004, 06:16 PM
What does that mean? I don't get it.

bobbygedd
11-20-2004, 07:56 PM
i am #8................

cutnedge
11-20-2004, 09:26 PM
We might as well face it: Webster has put us in the same category as the world's first professionals. We're lawnho's payup

mtdman
11-20-2004, 11:12 PM
Problem is here, we are professional lawn boys. That's it. Why? Because people still have this idear of the kid down the street raking the lawn for some milk and cookies and $5. That's what we compete with. And all the joe weekenders and scrubs that litter this business prevent us from rising to the level of professionals. No orgainization, no standarization, etc.

Just sayin'.

:D

paponte
11-21-2004, 12:04 AM
That's what we compete with. And all the joe weekenders and scrubs that litter this business prevent us from rising to the level of professionals. No orgainization, no standarization, etc.

I agree, but also disagree. I think these weekend warriors separate us more, and make us look even more professional. Funny thing, I got stopped by consumer affairs the other day and had to go through the whole smeal with them. after they checked me all out the guy tells me "sorry for your time, I know it's money". You know what? I didn't mind a bit, I was actually happy that they were out checking for proper Lic. Reg. Ins. Maybe it will make some guys wake up and smell the coffee. Lower overhead my @ss. Can't be all that lower. Everyone pays lic, ins. fees etc. I bet most pay for rent or storage also. Everyone wants a landscaper, but no one wants to live next to one.

YardPro
11-21-2004, 07:46 AM
Everyone wants a landscaper, but no one wants to live next to one.


that's classic.
i was rotflmao.
i have a few friends in the business that work from thier home. thier house looks like sanford and son.
parts mowers, ladders, clipping piles, etc.
neighbors don't like it one bit............

EGLS
11-21-2004, 08:58 AM
The way I see it we can consider ourself professional and make a professional salary. Ex. Just say Ted down the street works at a large manufactoring company and makes 100,000 salary. If I work just as hard a have just a much experince or more I am not going to short change myself no matter if a customer thinks I am too high or not.

Cheesedawg1
11-21-2004, 09:43 AM
The way I see it we can consider ourself professional and make a professional salary. Ex. Just say Ted down the street works at a large manufactoring company and makes 100,000 salary. If I work just as hard a have just a much experince or more I am not going to short change myself no matter if a customer thinks I am too high or not.


I hear you on that.

HOMER
11-21-2004, 10:12 AM
I don't know that I can fully agree that we're "professionals".

I think that we can conduct our businesses in a professional manner, interact with our customers in a highly respectable manner, use computer generated invoices vs. hand written and maintain an image that sets us apart from the regular "lawnboy". I think in doing that we can get a higher rate for our services and get more respect than the average JoeBobby.

I think if I addressed myself to a new customer as a professional lawn technician I might get a chuckle out of them, especially if I were standing in the doorway of a $750,000.00 home where the husband, with the 8 years of school and residency, was performing brain surgery that day.

I am what I am...it is what it is. I really don't need a label, I own a lawn maintenance business and I provide a service that's needed. I try to do the best I can most of the time. I have to admit that at times I feel like a yard monkey.........I wonder how much potential I really might have had if only I would have applied myself more in school, could it have been my $750,000.00 house one of ya'll were standing in front of?

We'll never know for sure, too much water under the proverbial bridge. What I do know is that I can't run around saying I'm a professional without a plack on the wall to back it up. I can conduct myself as a professional business owner and hope that one day I can obtain great things.........until then, my customers like me for who I am, my family respects my hard work philosophy and I urge my children to reach for the stars and be whatever it is they want to be.

I am what I am and it is what it is!

muddstopper
11-21-2004, 10:59 AM
What I do know is that I can't run around saying I'm a professional without a plack on the wall to back it up.

A professional will have plaques on their wall. Business license are displayed in your office same as a doctors office or other professional business. If you have completed a course and recieved a certificate that says you are certified to operate a mower or other piece of equipment, or to apply pesticides, you have another plaque to hang on your wall, Same as that doctors plaque that says he is certified to practice medicine.You carry liability insurance, same as the malpractice insurance that doctors carry. You make your living doing lawncare, the doctors make theirs doing people care. You both maintain a place of business. Both can employee other employes. Both can call in another specalist to take care of something that they have less knowledge in. The only real difference is the amount of time it takes to learn the respective trades and the cost involved entering that trade.

You are right in not calling yourself a professional, if your business isnt legit, and had the proper training and recieved the proper certificates or dont carry the proper insurance. Without that you are just another lawnboy. With it you are a Professional.

HOMER
11-21-2004, 11:26 AM
My perception vs. yours.

paponte
11-21-2004, 12:13 PM
Great post muddstopper. Wouldn't any of you feel soo much better if you could all call yourselves a true professional? Want a plaque on the wall? as well as a new title? Why not take a CLT, or CLP exam? Take your pesticide exam?

Despite what anyone thinks, you CAN be a professional in this, and any other field. Facts are facts,. Maybe if everyone had these views on the business, this field of work would be a much better and higher paying line of work. Fact is that any homeowner can do anything themselves if they really put their mind into it. Unfortunately, then will never do it as well as a true professional.

Maybe it sounds cocky and I don't want to come across like that, but don't ever compare my company nor ANY of my employees with little Johnny the lawn boy. I will take one on the chin before you degrade the professionals I have working for me. On the flip side, if you don't perform or carry yourself as a professional don't plan on staying for too long. :)

bobbygedd
11-21-2004, 12:23 PM
after reviewing this board several million times, i conclude, that 999 out of 1000 lawnboys ARE NOT professionals. in fact, out of these 25,ooo members, i'm sad to say, there are only 4 professionals here. mac, rodfather, sean addams, and myself.......and the first three......i'm not that sure about

packerbacker
11-21-2004, 12:58 PM
after reviewing this board several million times, i conclude, that 999 out of 1000 lawnboys ARE NOT professionals. in fact, out of these 25,ooo members, i'm sad to say, there are only 4 professionals here. mac, rodfather, sean addams, and myself.......and the first three......i'm not that sure about







What about me bobby?????????? :cry:

bobbygedd
11-21-2004, 12:59 PM
no, not you. especially not you. after that last proverbial assuault on me, i'm thinking my paperboy is more of a professional than you

HOMER
11-21-2004, 01:00 PM
Bobby,

Please tell me you don't believe that! :rolleyes:

packerbacker
11-21-2004, 01:02 PM
no, not you. especially not you. after that last proverbial assuault on me, i'm thinking my paperboy is more of a professional than you




ROFLMAO, im sorry i forgot that I WAS the one who started calling YOU names and insulting YOU.


Get a clue champ.

1MajorTom
11-21-2004, 01:03 PM
Bobby,
You sorta remind me of my local pizza delivery guy. He comes to the door to collect his money, just like you still do with your clients. ;)

2004F550
11-21-2004, 01:14 PM
I don't even see what the hell the problem is. If you can charge it, get it, its way to goddamn hard to make money charging what most competeing a##holes charge. People like this piss me off. It has whats ruined all businesses. For example now in my area, just because everybody and their brother can get financing now, they all think their big excavating contractors, they go around, with their cheap sh*& and ruin the market for legitmate business's like my families that have been around doing quality work and have been building up the local markets for 30 years. Same guys that ruin snowplowing, they can rent loaders now for no money and do parking lots for nothing, just to say their doing them.
After seeing what the real LEGITIMATE business's in our field have done, and then to see these little punks come in and ruin the market with their two man crews, cheap equipment, and poor quality work etc. Its disgusting. :realmad: :realmad: :realmad: anyway just a little rant

packerbacker
11-21-2004, 01:16 PM
I don't even see what the hell the problem is. If you can charge it get, its way to goddamn hard to make money charging what most competeing a##holes charge. People like this piss me off. It has whats ruined all businesses. For example now in my area, just because everybody and their brother can get financing now, they all think their big excavating contractors, they go around, with their cheap sh*& and ruin the market for legitmate business's like my families that have been around doing quality work and have been building up the local markets for 30 years. Same guys that ruin snowplowing, they can rent loaders now for no money and do parking lots for nothing, just to say their doing them.
After seeing what the real LEGITIMATE business's in our field have done, and then to see these little punks come in and ruin the market with their two man crews, cheap equipment, and poor quality work etc. Its disgusting. :realmad: :realmad: :realmad: anyway just a little rant





I agree with the poor quality of work and the cheap equipment but are saying that having 2 guys go out is a bad thing?

2004F550
11-21-2004, 01:33 PM
no....just got caught up in the rant.......2 guys can be very effective

packerbacker
11-21-2004, 01:36 PM
no....just got caught up in the rant.......2 guys can be very effective





Just making sure. When i used to work for another company i talked the guy into organizing all his 48 inch or bigger yards onto 1 list so 1 guy could mow the whole thing and 1 guy trims. It turned out to be very good and easier on the wallet for payroll


But continue on with your rant :)

bobbygedd
11-21-2004, 01:58 PM
Bobby,
You sorta remind me of my local pizza delivery guy. He comes to the door to collect his money, just like you still do with your clients. ;)
really? my pizza guy gives me a bill, and says i can pay when i want. and if i don't want to pay extra for mushrooms, he just stacks them around the edge, and doesn't charge me.

1MajorTom
11-21-2004, 02:17 PM
Bobby, I know you like the quick cash in your hand, but may I suggest maybe mailing out your invoices? you'll feel less like a pizza boy knocking at the door, I guarantee it. Of course, you can always charge your customers a postage stamp surcharge. :p

bobbygedd
11-21-2004, 02:20 PM
you are acting like a fool...i mean, a woman...i mean, a fool.....ah, what's the difference?

rodfather
11-21-2004, 03:22 PM
Someone needs to put a fork in this thread (hint hint)...it's done IMO. What started out as a great thread that produced some positive responses has spiralled down into sarcasim, venting, and name calling. Period

paponte
11-21-2004, 03:30 PM
Someone needs to put a fork in this thread (hint hint)...it's done IMO. What started out as a great thread that produced some positive responses has spiralled down into sarcasim, venting, and name calling. Period

I would have to second that. Bobblehead has that effect on people for some stragne reason.

Thanks for all the great input that was given. :)

bobbygedd
11-21-2004, 03:48 PM
i didn't do anything

packerbacker
11-21-2004, 04:12 PM
you are acting like a fool...i mean, a woman...i mean, a fool.....ah, what's the difference?





Pot meet kettle

bobbygedd
11-21-2004, 06:01 PM
skull meet shovel

HOMER
11-21-2004, 06:11 PM
OK,

I'll have to admit that , yes-----------you can be a professional.

You have to earn the right to be called that though, and to those that have "earned" that through classes, college degrees, ceu's, pesticide licenses etc. then I have to give you props. I chose the path of least resistance so in a way I was more or less writing about what I have accomplished in the last 8 years. If I had a particular weed to get rid of in one of my lawns I would have to call someone that had taken the time to study, pass tests, study more, invest in the chemicals and application equipment, just to get the job done right. If I wanted to help a customer with a certain plant that needed to be placed in a certain spot then I would call on my friend who just graduated from Auburn with a degree in landscapeing.......a true professional. He did the time and spent the $$$$ to earn that title.

So there it is. There are those that can and should be viewed as professionals in their chosen fields, then there are those that are doing this line of work to make a living.........I still think there is a differnce. The latter can still maintain that image that sets them apart from the "lawnboy" crowd and that perception will yield them more than a Sanford and Son outfit......but at the end of the day they are still less than "professional".

Myself included.

SCAG POWER
11-21-2004, 06:20 PM
Crown & Pepsi will doooooooooooooooo.

As to what we do we take an yard that has not had any thing done to it and in a matter of hours make it look good.

We run a business pay the high price of gas, tks GW. keep all equipment running cover all the bases during the day live through the heat when there is no shade to hide under put up slack suppilers that over charge us to get the materials to our work site, devlope action plans for growth sales collect the money and if we are not to worn out at the end of week take the wife out to dinner.

We charge just what it exactly cost to do the job rite the first time and we don't take short cuts. ;)

HOMER
11-21-2004, 06:30 PM
Man, I'm out of breath after that.

packerbacker
11-21-2004, 07:03 PM
skull meet shovel






ROFLAMO, did you just threaten me ? i didnt know i was talking to an internet tough guy!

bobbygedd
11-21-2004, 07:16 PM
ROFLAMO, did you just threaten me ? i didnt know i was talking to an internet tough guy!



well, here i am, do i look like one?

http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14342&stc=1

packerbacker
11-21-2004, 07:19 PM
well, here i am, do i look like one?

http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14342&stc=1







LOL, hell yes you do. You look just like it! Now get back behind that monitor and threaten some more!

packerbacker
11-21-2004, 07:21 PM
The good news is though you have a SWEET mullet! 1984 called, they want their hair back!

bobbygedd
11-21-2004, 07:28 PM
that's not a mullet

packerbacker
11-21-2004, 07:36 PM
that's not a mullet







Sure its not. Keep telling yourself that... bye bobby, have a good week!

HOMER
11-21-2004, 07:52 PM
The good news is though you have a SWEET mullet! 1984 called, they want their hair back!


Now that made me laugh! :D

GreenMonster
11-21-2004, 08:46 PM
Well, all you guys that think you aren't professionals, make sure your customers know that too. That way, they can walk all over you and expect you to work for peanuts.

paponte
11-21-2004, 09:33 PM
LOL!! Look, it's a damn fly with a mullet!! LMAO!! :D

bobbygedd
11-21-2004, 09:44 PM
you're just jealous

YardPro
11-21-2004, 10:22 PM
The good news is though you have a SWEET mullet! 1984 called, they want their hair back!

rotflmao....
now that was funny
it's a receeding hairline mullet to boot.

you're pretty buff bobby, which shortcoming are you compensating for????

Mo Green
11-22-2004, 09:32 AM
As far as the mullet goes, I think most people that live in Jersey are still living in the 80s. It's not his fault, he's just trying to fit in. And, it doesn't look like a full blown mullet yet, but it has potential. Let's just call it a JUNIOR MULLET for now, until we can further track its growth pattern and progress.