Basement Flooding. Sod to blame?

[javadoc]

Hi there, hoping the I could get some assistance on a problem we are having. I know this isn't so much a lawn type of issue, but I am hoping that some landscaping professionals could chime in w/their experience with regard to my following problem.

The wife and I had a house built this past spring, and the house came with an unfinished basement affording us about 1,200sf of future liveable space. Now, the lay of the land around the house is a that we are on the side of a slight hill. There is a house up the street (uphill) from us, and it sits about 4ft higher in elevation than our house (just to give a picture of what's going on). I mention the house b/c water I'm sure drains from his lot to mine and probably contributes to the burden of my onsite drainage.

Now, back in September, two months after construction was complete and we moved in, we had record setting rains in the area. I think we had 7inches in 2days. This resulted in water creeping into my basement at the junction of the slab and basement (concrete block) walls in a few areas, most remarkably one area of the perimeter, but not all around the basement wall area. The water wasn't deep but it was pervasive and covered about 200sf of floor space at some points, before I could ShopVac it up, every few hours.

I of course called the builder, who blamed the fact that I had sod grass (Kentucky Bluegrass sod) installed on site the first week of September, and it hadn't yet rooted in. This was the cause of the flooding, he said, because the sod wasn't allowing water to drain away from the house. His expert opinion was derived from when he lifted a piece of sod once (after 7" of rain) and found standing water under it. Working for an architectural firm, I've consulted a vast number of construction and landscaping professionals that I have contact with, and every single one says he's wrong, and some say worse, but the builder maintains this reasoning, still, even faced with a mountain of professionals saying that he is incorrect.

I have given him many chances to fix the problem but he maintains, instists, that the problem is that the sod, not being rooted into the top soil, is hindering site drainage and causing water to build up along the side of the foundation wall and find its way into the joint of the wall and slab.

Anyway, I've been battling my builder to fix the problem ever since. Even now, when we've had snow on the ground, and the weather warms up a bit and melts some snow, I have water flowing across my basement floor.

I want the builder to dig up around the foundation and figure out what's broken, but he refuses b/c he says my sod's to blame.

Any ideas of what to do? Could he be correct? I am about ready call my lawyer, but that may cost me as much as hiring a contractor to fix the problem myself. Thank you so much if you can help me.

Signed,

Waterlogged :)

[SSmith]

You're being duped, my friend. You need to call the builder up and demand the problem be fixed or start to look for a lawyer.


BTW...It has to be a crack in the foundation doesn't it???

[KCLandscape]

How about some pictures?
Did the builder put in a drain system around the foundation?
Sounds like bad grading!

[SSmith]

It does sound like bad grading....

Blaming the leak on the sod seems pretty assanine.

[javadoc]

Well, there could be an issue with grading, and I've pointed it out. Being as how the grade of the lot is sloping, the area where the water penetration is worst is where I would suspect water from the neighbor's lot is draining into mine. I've pointed this out as well, but the guy keeps blaming the sod.

Pictures? I have literally thousands of pictures of construction, and some from just about every time I have water. I'll post some links, after I get back from a lunch meeting.

However, nobody thinks this could be the sod's fault? Hmmmm... funny, that doesn't surprise me.

Thanks for the replies guys!

[javadoc]

Pictures... hope it's okay to hotlink to this site. If not, let me know.

This is a bit of the flooding from last night. Like I said, not deep water, but a constant problem:

http://www.javadocs.net/housepix/kidronflooding/pb112904080.jpg

http://www.javadocs.net/housepix/kidronflooding/pb112904081.jpg

[SodKing]

I of course called the builder, who blamed the fact that I had sod grass (Kentucky Bluegrass sod) installed on site the first week of September, and it hadn't yet rooted in.


Now I have heard it all...

Ask your builder what he installed for perimeter drains. Obviously, being down hill your house is going to be in the way of the water flowing down hill. When it hits your foundation, it will slow down and soak into the soil surrounding your house. Perimeter drains handle this issue by moving the water around your house and dump it out on the low side of the house. I have even seen perimeter drains that hook into municiple sewer systems though this practice was discontinued in most cities. You could have bare dirt and the soil grading and perimeter drains should be able to handle surface water.

[SodKing]

it also looks like the slab was not cut or cured correctly. That crack in the second picture shouldn't be there.

[Grassmechanic]

Sounds like you have a sub surface drainage issue, i.e. not enough pea stone, crushed drain tile, etc. Is your sump pump working correctly? If I were you and could not get any satisfaction from the builder, I'd go see the Building Inspector in your local jurisdiction. Your local municipality is responsible in this situation also, as they have approved and inspected the work. Also, you may have to contact a real estate attorney.

[geogunn]

sir--positive perimeter drainage will have to be re-installed at your house.

it has nothing to do with the sod. good luck.

GEO

[NickN]

No way would sod cause that.I gotta ask though,did he pour the concrete first for the basement or did he lay the block and then pour the concrete inside the block?
The blocks need to be installed ON the concrete slab.If he layed the block,then poured the concrete,there would be a seam in-between them for water to get in.Also,he should have sealed the blocks and he should have installed drainage around the perimeter.
Now,if for some reason you can't get this guy to fix your problem,there are some solutions.
First,if the water is coming in at the area where the first course of blocks meet the slab,you can install a heavy vinyl membrane that starts a foot or so on the floor and goes up the block a foot or more.This can be installed inside.
Second,if the leak is up above where the block meets the slab,try a product called Damtite.It's a heavy duty concrete sealer.Just make sure your blocks are as dry as possible before installing.
Lastly,and most costly,is to dig down to the foundation outside the basement and install a vinyl membrane there.It's known as "wrapping" and most builders should know what you're talking about.

[Tvov]

I think we had 7inches in 2days. This resulted in water creeping into my basement at the junction of the slab and basement (concrete block) walls in a few areas, most remarkably one area of the perimeter, but not all around the basement wall area. The water wasn't deep but it was pervasive and covered about 200sf of floor space at some points, before I could ShopVac it up, every few hours.
:)

7 inches in 2 days?? Wow. With that amount of rain, even a drainage system might have trouble handling it. I am surprised that is all you got in the basement. Is this the only leaking/flooding problem you've had? If it is the only time you've had problems, the builder could claim he graded the property correctly, but the storm was exteme conditions.

Whatever happens, it is always good to have some sort of drain around a house.

[javadoc]

Actually, the heavy rain in September was the first rain we had experienced since construction was completed. There was water in the same 'problem areas' during construction, and this was blamed on the final grade not yet being completed.

The water is definitely appearing at the joint of the slab and the first course of block. The footing was poured, then the block walls constructed in the fall of last year. Further into the spring, the slab was poured, after the ground had thawed. We joined the project as home buyers just after the backfill was performed, but I had seen the drain tile system that ran the perimeter of the house, and then flowed down to a lowpoint in the back of the lot. The big question that I've posed is whether proper gravel fill was placed on top of the tile prior to backfill. I've been assured that this is the case, but I really cannot trust the guy.

My landscaper, a very talented guy with 15yrs of experience in our area, assures me that the sod couldn't possibly cause the flooding, and the theory just doesn't hold water (pun) to me either. I was worried about laying sod that late in the season, but he promised that the lawn would root in and the seams 'heal' up next spring. I tend to believe him.

Last night I had some lengthy conversations with the builder, and I think he's changed his tune. He said he wants to wait for temps to drop a bit and hopefully we get a few inches of snow, to protect the front lawn when he brings a backhoe on site to dig up the perimeter and investigate the problem. I guess this is progress. I know the foundation waterproofer (they used some spray-on product and not bituthane sheeting...) and the backfilling contractor wanted to start work weeks ago.

Thank you all for your great input. I really appreciate it. If you want, I'll post back any developments.

[Up North]

Like everyone else has said it certainly has nothing to do with the sod. It likely is a combination of the grade to the lot and the drainage system. When you have 7 inches of rain in two days and you're in an area where water will be draining to, such as a downhill location...you're going to end up with the 7 inch rainfall as well as the runoff from the higher elevation areas. They may need to regrade your lot to direct runoff away from the house as much as possible as most drainage systems can only handle so much water before they will backup.

Good luck and it looks as if the builder has finally wised up and is going to work with you on the problem, that's good.

Buck

[javadoc]

We were communicating via email today, and he wants to wait till spring, and use sandbags, or some other kind of barrier system to control the flooding, and put a sump pump down there on the floor. What that says to me is that I'm going to have to remove everything that I have stored in the basement and charge the builder for the storage costs.

His reasoning for waiting is that he wants to see if the surrounding fill will compact with a winter season and see what happens in the spring. This will set back my plans to finish the basement a year.

It's just so frustrating. I suppose I really shouldn't be calling a lawyer at this point b/c he's actually responsive.

[geogunn]

javadoc--it is good the guy is responding but waiting 'till spring will not correct the problem.

and sealers may work for a while but they age and leak eventually.

the only solution is a pervious french drain to channel that water from around the foundation to a downgrade outlet.

he probably installed a drain of some kind but it is not draining properly and is allowing water to pond against the foundation in a low spot.

there are quick fixes and there are solutions. I'd say the longer you wait, the less responsive this guy is going to be. JMO........let us know how it goes for you.

GEO :)

[work_it]

it also looks like the slab was not cut or cured correctly. That crack in the second picture shouldn't be there.
I agree, and that would be of huge concern to me if I had bought that house. Due to your house being built on a slope that crack is only going to get worse over time. Even if he fixes the drainage problems around the parimeter a crack like that can/will become a huge problem. Also take into consideration that a crack in the foundation will affect the resale value.

[Martino]

We were communicating via email today, and he wants to wait till spring, and use sandbags, or some other kind of barrier system to control the flooding, and put a sump pump down there on the floor. What that says to me is that I'm going to have to remove everything that I have stored in the basement and charge the builder for the storage costs.

His reasoning for waiting is that he wants to see if the surrounding fill will compact with a winter season and see what happens in the spring. This will set back my plans to finish the basement a year.

It's just so frustrating. I suppose I really shouldn't be calling a lawyer at this point b/c he's actually responsive.

Javadoc:

Sorry to hear of your problems.........we, too, had frustrating problems with our builder and that is the reason for this post.

One of our issues was an improperly poured concrete driveway that began to spall and expose aggregate in less than a year. We initially got no satisfactory response from the builder, and I, at my expense, had an expert analysis done that determined that either a "hot" load of concrete was used, or the concrete was not properly "worked." The builder finally consented to "fix" the problem, which consisted of the application of some sort of top dressing on the concrete, which allegedly was supposed to be stronger than the concrete itself. Well, suffice to say that this band-aid did not work and the spalling continued, uprooting this top dressing along with the concrete. Only after serving the builder with papers threatening a lawsuit, did he agree to replace the driveway at his cost. He then sent a driveway contractor out to take measurements, etc., and both the contractor and builder recommended holding off the tear-out/installation until spring, as we were entering into winter by this time. We agreed, as this builder was not a "fly by night" outfit and had a lot of homes under construction in some great areas of town. The following spring, the contractor called and scheduled the job for a Tuesday. The Thursday before that Tuesday, you guessed it, the builder went out of business. When I contacted the builder and raised hell, he basically told us to sue him, if we wished, but we'd be wasting our time because he owed literally millions to banks and suppliers who were secured creditors. Ultimately, we ended up replacing the driveway at our cost.

Moral of the story:

Be wary when a homebuilder tells you to wait until spring.

I do not mean to cast any aspersions on your builder, who hopefully is a trustworthy business person and will take care of the problem. I simply wanted to tell our tale of "waiting til spring." Your situation may dictate waiting due to your location in Alaska, but perhaps you could get the builder to put some funds in escrow in case the unforeseen occurs.

[sheshovel]

This guy's giving you the runaround,
request in writing that he digs down around the perimetor to check the drainage he installed and to look for cracks in the foundation walls.
Request that he repair any problems or potential problems with the wall and drainage .
Also to install a membraine(or wrap)to protect from water .Give him a reasonable time frame ,but lock it in. Tell him if he cannot take care of theses problems in a timely manner,then he will be contacted by your lawyer. Then have it noterized and sent via signed reciept'

Record all phone conversations and keep copy of all messages left on machine by him.Document every conversation and every request by you.If he does not comply,take him to court and be your own lawyer.

[Critical Care]

My feelings are…

I wonder if the builder is hoping for an “out of sight and out of mind” situation where by springtime you may have forgotten all about this problem or have simply shrugged it off?

And... if no other problems occur during the winter, will you still feel as strongly about taking remedial action as you do now?

[Paul Corsetti]

We do total land maint. that includes cement work of all types. I can tell you that concrete is not water tight. It will leak water if water is standing up along a wall or under a floor. 1 the grade should be sloped away from the home,2 the side of the home with a house higher than yours should have a path or a way for the water to get away(drain or swail) ,3 all the walls should be coated with a water sealer, not a wter proofer, sealer seals the block and joints,best if put on inside and out, but just always keep in your mind concrete will leak water it is porus . Find out what the work that was done to your home was and then ask why it was not done to keep water out, because one of these steps were not completed, there is one other thing that could have happened and that is if a large crack has opened up due to settlement, I was told by my grandfather a mater mason that concrete is always going to crack and you cant stop it. If you have cracks ask for the compaction tests on the job, if they all passed try to seal the cracks and look for leaks again, good luck