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turf hokie
12-07-2004, 05:48 AM
I just wanted to follow up on the problem that I was having with my PG. If you guys remember the machine was changing it's calibration all by itself.

Well, after all the ranting and raving I did here, I just wanted to follow up with the progress that was made for me.

Lesco, where I bought the machine, bent over backwards for me and they will have my business for a long time. They went into the field with me to get the info. that PG was requesting to go back to PG and find a solution to my problem. They got Tom on the phone (the owner-CEO) who didn't deny the problem, they simply had not run into it before. So after some back and forth b/t Lesco and PG we have come up with what seems to be an amicable solution to get the machine back to 100%. PG was very cordial and adamant about finding out what they could do to fix the problem. The PG has a place in my business and I wanted to find a solution and not just abandon the machine. So I was very happy when all involved came up with a fix.

So after all the down time, frustration and venting on this site. I thought it was only right to openly say thankyou to all involved, especially to LESCO who heavily went to bat for me. There is something to be said about vendor relationships, sometimes it not always about price.

Thankyou and now I will get off my box.

James Cormier
12-07-2004, 10:12 AM
I just wanted to follow up on the problem that I was having with my PG. If you guys remember the machine was changing it's calibration all by itself.

Well, after all the ranting and raving I did here, I just wanted to follow up with the progress that was made for me.

Lesco, where I bought the machine, bent over backwards for me and they will have my business for a long time. They went into the field with me to get the info. that PG was requesting to go back to PG and find a solution to my problem. They got Tom on the phone (the owner-CEO) who didn't deny the problem, they simply had not run into it before. So after some back and forth b/t Lesco and PG we have come up with what seems to be an amicable solution to get the machine back to 100%. PG was very cordial and adamant about finding out what they could do to fix the problem. The PG has a place in my business and I wanted to find a solution and not just abandon the machine. So I was very happy when all involved came up with a fix.

So after all the down time, frustration and venting on this site. I thought it was only right to openly say thankyou to all involved, especially to LESCO who heavily went to bat for me. There is something to be said about vendor relationships, sometimes it not always about price.

Thankyou and now I will get off my box.

Never ran into the problem before, Thats simply not true, From day one with my ultra it didnt spread lime or fert-a-lime, well it spread it fine, but the slide never shuts. Just run 1 or 2 bags thru and the slide plate is stuck, Everbody in my area has the same problem, When I brought it up to PG, they told me they never tested it with lime, so they where clueless on why it happens.

Turf , whats the amicable solution you came up with?

DUSTYCEDAR
12-07-2004, 10:23 AM
yeah i would like to hear what they did to fix it

lush&green
12-07-2004, 12:05 PM
Yeah yeah!!! Spit it out!

qps
12-07-2004, 05:41 PM
I just wanted to follow up on the problem that I was having with my PG. If you guys remember the machine was changing it's calibration all by itself.

Well, after all the ranting and raving I did here, I just wanted to follow up with the progress that was made for me.

Lesco, where I bought the machine, bent over backwards for me and they will have my business for a long time. They went into the field with me to get the info. that PG was requesting to go back to PG and find a solution to my problem. They got Tom on the phone (the owner-CEO) who didn't deny the problem, they simply had not run into it before. So after some back and forth b/t Lesco and PG we have come up with what seems to be an amicable solution to get the machine back to 100%. PG was very cordial and adamant about finding out what they could do to fix the problem. The PG has a place in my business and I wanted to find a solution and not just abandon the machine. So I was very happy when all involved came up with a fix.

So after all the down time, frustration and venting on this site. I thought it was only right to openly say thankyou to all involved, especially to LESCO who heavily went to bat for me. There is something to be said about vendor relationships, sometimes it not always about price.

Thankyou and now I will get off my box.

After all that, please don't tell me you keep it :dizzy:

turf hokie
12-07-2004, 09:11 PM
They are going to mount the new magnum 150# hopper on my unit. The untra and centri were originally tested for the frame to handle a 150# of product. It also has a more direct slide plate shut-off mechanism more similar to the Lesco 80# hopper. Less linkage to be loose and get play in it. It will be a prototype that they have been looking at since the inception of the magnum. If my machine performs as my mechanic at Lesco and PG feel this design will, it will become an upgrade for the centri and ultra units. So this may benefit all of us in the long run.

James-
They did this change on the magnum to address the slide plate issue of not closing all the way.

My problem was not with the plate not shutting, the plate was recalibrating itself. For example my last round was 32-5-7 at a lesco guide of 14. After 7 minutes, the Lesco guys timed it, the Pg had adjusted itself to a lesco guide of 10.

James Cormier
12-08-2004, 09:42 AM
They are going to mount the new magnum 150# hopper on my unit. The untra and centri were originally tested for the frame to handle a 150# of product. It also has a more direct slide plate shut-off mechanism more similar to the Lesco 80# hopper. Less linkage to be loose and get play in it. It will be a prototype that they have been looking at since the inception of the magnum. If my machine performs as my mechanic at Lesco and PG feel this design will, it will become an upgrade for the centri and ultra units. So this may benefit all of us in the long run.

James-
They did this change on the magnum to address the slide plate issue of not closing all the way.

My problem was not with the plate not shutting, the plate was recalibrating itself. For example my last round was 32-5-7 at a lesco guide of 14. After 7 minutes, the Lesco guys timed it, the Pg had adjusted itself to a lesco guide of 10.

Very interesting, I have a feeling PG might not have like that info to get out, because in fairness we all have that problem with our machines, not just yours, The reason for the recalibrating was because of the material causing the slide plate to stick either open or closed, that is why my arm eventually broke.

Now when they came up with the ultra model they gave up with everyone with centri's, didnt offer upgrades to those machines, Now they come up with the magnum and they will abandon all ultra owners. Thats why the big pull to get the new machine is the chance to win a trip to Hawaii

ForeverGreen
12-08-2004, 07:30 PM
Looked at the new Magnum at the Columbus Oh show today and must say it will be no fun to work on, was considering it due to the Honda and looks like the hopper will work the same as the old Lesco (ULTRA) one to me.Lots of plastic for the additional $700.00 over the old Magnum.Rope start only and no one could tell me if this engine had the "oil alert" built in as I believe it does and will be shutting down on slopes. Give this unit a year at best in the field to see what is weak. Two aisles over was LT Rich and a good crowd of people and most complaining about their experiences with PG. I have run my PG for 160 hours to date with 3 new batteries 2 starters 3 clutches 4 drive belts and 1 new trans axle.(pump should go anytime) All were warranted,I dont seem to have the slide plate or shut off problem but feel I need to clean hopper (hose out) every day before shutdown. I run a lot of 4-4.5 lb per 1m sq on setting 5, (28-3-10 Scotts /Anderson etc etc)Have run with the hopper extension from day one and always 150 lb fert and 8 gallon water to start. Mine does spray 11- 12 ft but have to have the tip screens very,very cleanWill also demo a z JR prior to spring,Always looking to improve the equipment , As mentioned on this site before LT Rich is willing to use any combo of engines hoppers booms tanks etc you want for your operation. I talkes with them for 45 minutes from a sales person who also builds some of the machines. He really knew his "stuff" Perhaps PG will start to listen to the concerns in the field at some point but seem to have a lot of unhappy ULTRA owners. I have read for many months about the PG and Z spray concerns and comments and saw it for myself today at the Turf Show . Ted, ForeverGreen "Lawns and Ponds"www.cleanponds.com

James Cormier
12-08-2004, 08:39 PM
Good post Ted, My comment on the slide plate was only when using Lime or Fertalime. You ( operator ) cant get thru one bag with out this problem, so cleaning it is not the answer to that problem.

I would like to send my PG to Tom Rich, and have him upgrade the machine with hydro drive, better hopper & sprayer size, and a few other tweeks.

ForeverGreen
12-08-2004, 10:07 PM
Ran a few pallets of gypsum and had a lot of fines collect and collection on spinner but my pull type Spyker does the same thing. Had a lot of "CRUNCH" having the meter set on 10 on PG and setting to "mulch" on Spyker I would not want to do that often, I dont spread much lime as Im usually trying to reduce PH and only use 6 LB elemental sulfur per 1M sq to knock the ph about .5 at a time. I have a lot of 7.7-7.9 high cec low OM soils. I expect that if I keep the PG I will encounter more of the same as everyone with more hours on.My reservation on the Z with the spyker prior to buying the PG was all the trouble I had getting a pattern with the pull unit that only saw limited lawns in the early days.The pattern adjustment had a lot of slop in the slide plate and advanced at a slight angle and was a"pain" to get calibrated. I noticed today while looking at the Z's the slide plate is the same but LT Rich folks stated that it did not seem to be a problem. I believe the cost difference is about $1600 from the new PG to the z JR (o5 with stainless frame) and I can see that much just in hydros, booms,tanks and pump. I bought mine with the 100HR or 6 month deal which I think was a safe bet for both of us.At 11.5 months I replaced a lot of "stuff" to get me into the upcoming season. I just finished installing dual Briggs 3.5 qt fuel tanks that also act as fenders so I can get more than 3 dumps of fert to a tank of fuel. I will say that within 60 days there will be negative responses from a Magnum owners starting in the south southwest (hope Im wrong) as the industry really needs good machines that give a great ROI.I think the buyback is 30 days on the Magnum so will be tough for a lot of us to really test prior to spring (perhaps icemelt) if winter ever gets here !!James do you still have the scooters that I saw on one of the other pages ?? Ted

James Cormier
12-09-2004, 07:43 AM
Ted, I only have the ducati now, all the rest where sold.Im a one bike guy, the ducati is my 19th in the last 22years.

So they still offer the buy back on the magnum? Well the best bet would be to wait till rd 1 rush is over then get one, and really work the piss out of it for 28 days.

On the ultra,
When I called to find out why the spreader dosnt spread lime, they said, we dont spread alot of lime around our parts, so we never ran it thru..........Good R&D. I hope they did more than drive the magnum around the parking lot.

I would like to see photos of you gas tank mods, if you have them, post them up.

Jim

ForeverGreen
12-09-2004, 09:41 AM
Yes Ill get some pics, After I had the tanks mounted exactly 1 inch higher than the exsisting fuel tank discharge I removed the brackets to get them powder coated and will have them back in a few days.I was going to make the brackets out of stainless but "mild" is easier for me to work with.Mounting was low so not to raise float in carb bowl for flooding. I have a Briggs dealer in the area that sold me the tanks and suggested the mounting procedures. He also commented that ,that engine on a mower always has a problem restarting when hot after shutdown, especially if piston was TDC vs BDC as it needed stroke to restart. He was surprised to see it on this type of machine. He is able to warrant this engine for two years for me..Also commented that he considered it a throw away motor after a few hundred hours vs resleeving etc once the compression starts to lower.I hate buying a machine from one place and have to ask for warranty on the engine from someone else.But that is what the fine print states in the PG warranty, I do know they did supply some engine parts to keep some folks "happy"I also have them plumbed so that exsisting tank is a spare only. So now when I run out of fuel I should have enough to get back to the truck for more.This is probably one of the few machines youll find that has a warranty set up that is better for the manufacturer than the consumer, Also most warranty repairs are done by the owner to get the machine rolling again as you well know so a ton is saved on labor.I just had a hypro pump rebuit by C&S Turf here in Ohio and the labor rate was $70.00 per hour (seemed like enough)I also just bought an 05 Ford diesel with a 100,000 mile warranty on power train and like all vehicles will take it back to the dealer for any and "all" warranty concerns.even though probably a hundred different companies (and countries) built parts for it.Concerning the Magnum I would check with my local Honda dealer to be sure they are receptive to working on this engine and wet clutch. I realize Honda is a great motor but they are making different versions too.ie drive belt for timing instead of gear to gear etc etc. I own 7 Honda motors from sprayers to bed edgers trash pumps and generators and can tell you that the Lowes Honda driven pressure washer and the honda on a Brown bededger are very similar on the outside and have some differences internally.(still a good motor) Perhaps someone that works on Honda motors will chime in on this.I think you mentioned before that we will see many companies get into this market which will make everyone build a better product including PG. Two years ago when I talked to PG about buying this Ultra I wanted to know why it did not have a Honda on it as I hated Briggs as I had bought hundreds of Briggs motors over the years (25 years in ag fert) and had many many problems with the product and the Company.PG stated that they had a Honda engine at one point and had seal problems of some sort and went on to another engine prior to the Briggs,Not sure what the Centuri has.Briggs always blamed diaphram failure in the carbs on todays fuel. The honda engines did not have this problem but ran an additional $200 on a flow max pump over the Briggs, no big deal until you are buying 25-30 per year.One of the people I met at the Z spray site yesterday in Columbus stated that he bought his PG in late May and asked PG about getting a Honda engine and was not told of the Magnum, he asked PG about trading his Ultra in which has only 26 hours on it and they offered their website classified section to him.He had already had starter and battery problems.I suggested he tune into this site !!Another thing I noticed on this Briggs is that the recoil is riveted on and not bolted and not sure if the rivets are mild or aluminum, I expect these recoils to start flying off the engines as everyone gives up on the starters and pulls the ole rope on a regular basis as the fert eats away at this area.Sorry for the long post and remember the motto "It beats walking ,right?">>>>>>>. :) Ted

turf hokie
12-09-2004, 09:44 AM
James-
My machine recailibrated itself empty or full. When it had material in the hopper it happened much faster.

As far as the upgrade on the magnum with the change in mechanisms to open the hopper. I don't think I leaked anything that someone with half an idea about spreaders wouldn't have been able to figure out. My Lesco mechanic was trying to figure out how to make the change before we knew that the magnum had addressed the problem.

I'm in the mode that they addressed the problem.And if they have changed the new magnum to address problems that they had with the ultra, then that is fine with me. To me it is them taking the info they have gathered and putting it into use, you know finding a better way.

Every machine, mower, blower etc has it's quirks (quoted from a mechanic who has been there). I look at how the company responds and addresses them. And so far PG is doing the right thing by me.

James Cormier
12-09-2004, 10:55 AM
Ted, My old eyes have a problem reading these post, It would be much easier if you broke up your post into paragraphs, I like the long posts, and you got great info to read, just a little hard in one big clump :)

ForeverGreen
12-12-2004, 05:37 PM
Fuel Tank mods, for PG per previous post, Should be about 4 X capacity now !! "Jim get your glasses for those old eyes"

ForeverGreen
12-12-2004, 05:42 PM
More PG pics of dual fuel tanks with painted brackets prior to removal for powder coating.

ForeverGreen
12-12-2004, 05:48 PM
Last PG pics of dual B& S fuel tanks and brackets, sorry about the multiple posts but 5 "per" is the limit and James wanted them on 3 pages instead of 1 :) PS James you have a great looking website, we seem to have a lot of the same equipment !!

James Cormier
12-16-2004, 05:24 PM
Last PG pics of dual B& S fuel tanks and brackets, sorry about the multiple posts but 5 "per" is the limit and James wanted them on 3 pages instead of 1 :) PS James you have a great looking website, we seem to have a lot of the same equipment !!

Ted, nice work, Im going to steal your idea here, thanks for taking so many photo's, Or better yet, make them and sell me a set that will save me a trip to the welder....great idea, I bet you could sell them to every ultra user.

James Cormier
12-16-2004, 05:30 PM
Ted, how do you get those pgs to float? Checked out your website, am I missing something here? My grandparents have a cottage on Lake Ontario, at sodus Bay, 10 years ago there was no weeds, now i will not swim, its nasty, can you help them?

ForeverGreen
12-16-2004, 07:59 PM
James, Thus the reason for so many pics so everyone can (borrow the idea ) and improve the PG.Try to keep the outlets within 1- 1 1/4 inch above the exsisting fuel outlet and I dont think you will have any float problems. I'm not sure what the cost of the tanks are as I felt fortunate to find the right style that would tuck inside the wheelbase for added protection and did not ask my Briggs dealer. Also note one of the pics where the shifter is mounted and be sure to pull stick back in high as you may want to angle your bracket to accommodate this area.

ForeverGreen
12-16-2004, 08:21 PM
James, You wont find a lot of mention of the lawncare side of the operation on the website, I operate in a 25-30 mile radius in NW Ohio and dont do a lot of advertising. I hate to say we dont advertise at all but Im to the point that seems like the clients find us mostly by word of mouth.Always tell our customers that we are small and going to try to stay that way.Have done the millions $$ in annual sales and lots of employees in the past on the ag side of the industry,for a National Co,now Im mostly a one man band and a lot smaller scale.Started the pond and lake aeration business a few years back and its a great little business without a lot of players. I dont do snow either but looks like you have a great plow setup.I talk (and sell) to pond and lake managers, fisheries biologists from all over the world.Seems Nutrient Management in ag or lawns or ponds all have a lot in common. Ted

ForeverGreen
12-17-2004, 09:43 PM
Thought I would share the problem and "fix" for the brakeing system on my PG Ultra, have not been able to keep brakes adjusted before this fix.In the first pic the stainless brake shaft (under the sulkey) needed to have the pictured stub welded to it to prevent the movement from side to side, this needed to be done on both sides.The side play was about 3/8 of an inch. The next 3 pics show the stainless washers on the brake shoe that "were" 3/4 inch OD and rubbed on the drum causing the shoe to not enguage on the drum. These washers were replaced with 1/2 inch OD washers and now I have full contact and both sides brake great. If the brake shaft (under the sulkey) moves 1/8 inch (side ways) or more I dont think you will ever keep these brakes adjusted as they will push the brake pad side ways every time and provide poor brakeing.

ForeverGreen
12-17-2004, 10:02 PM
PG Ultra has 7 inch wide platform on sulkey, Size 9 boot is 12 inches equals tired feet !! I see the new PG Magnum has a larger platform with friction tape VS a grate and may be a problem when the tape comes off.Added 2 inches to the back and filler plates on the front.Pic 27 was another weak area as the round stock hitting the flat stock on the handle lock constantly bends (doubled the thickness) and now works great.Pic 17 is another shot of tab that needed to be welded to the brake shaft to keep from sliding side ways.I realize the brakes arent used much but seems since they are there they might as well "work" PS James feel free to borrow these too !! Ted

James Cormier
12-17-2004, 10:46 PM
PS James feel free to borrow these too !! Ted


Ted, Thank you for taking the time to post all those photos' and welcome to the site, I look forward to reading what you got to say, as long as you keep it short... :D

americanlawn
04-05-2007, 09:20 PM
Good post Ted, My comment on the slide plate was only when using Lime or Fertalime. You ( operator ) cant get thru one bag with out this problem, so cleaning it is not the answer to that problem.

I would like to send my PG to Tom Rich, and have him upgrade the machine with hydro drive, better hopper & sprayer size, and a few other tweeks.

Me too. Hydro drive is what all zero-turn mowers offer. There's a reason. Heck -- even LESCO ride-ons have it.

Our PG units have shelled out so many parts & wiring during the past four years that I given up counting.

I don't even want to remember the money we lost in downtime & parts.

These things are like vacuum cleaners: they last a year --- then the waranty is over, just when you need it.

Sad deal. Now they want me to upgrade to a Magnum.

Every part they send includes a flyer for a new Magnum. hmmmmm

americanlawn
04-05-2007, 09:39 PM
Many vacuum cleaners last about a year. Then the warranty is over.

When you order parts, they send you flyers about their "new" product.

Perma Green is exactly the same way.

I am not complaining about the PG personel or LESCO because they are top notch.

It's the product...a maze of cheezy thin wires that constantly corrode, cheap battery system, pumps shelling out. (Shurflo actually is a great pump - but somehow PG seems to do an efficient job of ruining them). clutches shelling out, clogged nozzels, nozzle diaphrams last but a week, shifter sucks on a regular basis, and many other worn parts that have to be replaced.

I need to buy stock in PG, just for the parts income!

We have two 3-year-old units. Both are down. We are still awaiting parts.

Same o same o. It's getting old.

I won't even get in the poor weed control, cuz it's another chapter from hell.

I'm stuck between a hard place & a rock.

I WILL be making a change.