PDA

View Full Version : how do we report illegal lawn care operators


hank III
12-11-2004, 09:42 AM
i honestly am trying to find out how to and to whom do we report illegal lawn care operators. basically, the people whom have jobs and insurance,health,vacations,holiday's decent mones,retirement etc etc. getting stopped to many times and questioned and then seeing the same type of "professional" cutting grass and pockiting the rewards has gotten to me. why do we need commercal plates and others do not , pay taxes,insurance,health,retirement, etc etc. i am a legal business in this for at least 25yrs and cannot believe how many people are illegal but complain about the hard working hispanics/and the kids trying to help the neighbor. lots of questions but we are in this together hank III i also own a small janitorial business that gets me through the year hank III

geogunn
12-11-2004, 09:59 AM
hank--I don't know the answer to your question and I am not in NEW JERKEY either.

but if I were there, I'd make a deal with you.

I'd say you be the janitor and I'd be the lawn boy. surely there is room enough for both of us!

GEO :)

bobbygedd
12-11-2004, 10:21 AM
i wouldn't do it.

Garden Panzer
12-11-2004, 10:25 AM
Oh come on......
You NEVER EVER, even once jammed some cash in your pocket for cutting some lawn and forgot to add it to your records?
:rolleyes:

LawnBoy89
12-11-2004, 10:33 AM
You can start off by minding your own business, instead of putting other people out of business.

Harleyboy52
12-11-2004, 10:40 AM
I am one of the people who has a job with health insurance, paid vacation, holidays and retirement ( fire dept ), but I am a totally legal lawn boy. I have a business license, liability insurance and good equiptment. I have a lot of toys and I don't mind working hard to pay for them. There are 25 firefighters in my dept. that are lawn boys on their days off. One of them is making $5000. a month solo. I don't want to work that hard. I'll bet that 90% of the people on this site do something else along with their yard work. I think you said that you had a janitorial service also.

chimmygew
12-11-2004, 12:56 PM
The only time I turn people in is if they cost me a job. If I lose a job to someone who does not pay taxes, then they are taking food off my table and I'll turn them in in a heart beat. If they stay away from me and my jobs, I don't waste my time on 'em.

pjslawncare/landscap
12-11-2004, 12:58 PM
Contact the IRS to start with. I too get tired of these guys underbidding us because they dont pay insurance, taxes and licenses. And Lawnboy89, he is minding his own business. Doing his part to prevent the cheaters from taking his business is a smart thing to do in todays business world, get a clue

Norm Al
12-11-2004, 12:58 PM
call 911


actually the reporting of illegal activitys no matter what industry,,,,,seems to be a good nieghborly thing to do!

Fantasy Lawns
12-11-2004, 01:01 PM
Code enforcement doesn't work on weekends n usually not after 4pm during the regular work week .... so they are only out M-F like 8-4 when the normal LCO is usually out .....many of the part timers have a reg job n cut grass later in the day or on weekends

As far as "calling" someone that's not for me ..... the only time I was tempted to do this was when I say what must have been a 12 year old on a sulky behind a 54" pistol grip .... arms way up in air n "Dad" weed eating .... I stopped to let him know that didn't look safe n he told me to mind my business .... so I did n moved on ... hope that kids still alive

Shuter
12-11-2004, 01:21 PM
This comes up now and again. Hamk could you define "illegal operator"??????
If you know of operators not paying taxes, you must have done some homework. This means you have way too much time on your hands. Try using the energy you are using against others on improving your business and rep.

bobbygedd
12-11-2004, 01:52 PM
the problem with reporting people for wrong doing is, where do you stop? where will he stop? if he knows it was you, and decides to go "tit for tat" you could wipe each other out. or, if he has less than you, you will get the worst end of it. one thing i've learned, you can't do battle with someone that has nothing to lose.

rodfather
12-11-2004, 01:59 PM
You can start by calling the Dept. of Labor. But like Fantasy said, they only drive around from 8 - 4 and not on the weekend.

Tech man
12-11-2004, 02:16 PM
This is the way I see it, Alot of people dont have the money to pay for a Contractor who has insurance, employees to pay for,taxes ect ect.. How many of you guys drop your rates for lower income familys and senor citizens? If you have to get your equipment fixed and you have the choice to go to a a dealer who charges $60 dollars and hour or you find a qualified mechanic who will work for $20 an hour where do you go? I cant tell you how many time certified contractors have come to our shop and have asked one of us here if we were interested in side work , In reality, isnt that the same thing?

Critical Care
12-11-2004, 02:26 PM
If you have nothing to lose, nothing to gain, then I wouldn't worry about it. However, in my case I've worked hard and jumped through all the hoops for the licenses that I carry. Every year I pay big bucks to maintain these licenses, and needless to say I do get upset when I see some unlicensed person doing work that I could be doing.

DennisF
12-11-2004, 02:27 PM
How do you know they are illegal? The only thing an LCO has to do to be legal is obtain a license from the city or county that he operates in. There are no laws requiring him to have liability insurance. If he wants to operate without insurance, that's a risk he has to take. If he's not paying taxes that doesn't make him an illegal LCO...he's a tax cheat and nothing more.

Don't worry about LCO's that you assume are illegal. If they are illegal...they will disappear eventually. They always do.

bobbygedd
12-11-2004, 02:33 PM
what i find about most guys, is that most guys think it's a crime to work without ins, or pay under the table, but it's ok for them to apply without a permit, or pocket some cash. it's like a double standard thing. i bet every single guy on this board is doing something illegal, wether it be pocketing cash, applying without a license, breaking city ordinance, something, i garentee it

Critical Care
12-11-2004, 02:39 PM
Actually, Dennis, taxes make up part of the business's operating structure. If a business doesn't pay it's taxes, workman's comp., or other required expenses then it's operating illegally. For example, if I don't pay my taxes I could lose my landscape contractor's license.

Richard Martin
12-11-2004, 04:37 PM
i bet every single guy on this board is doing something illegal, wether it be pocketing cash, applying without a license, breaking city ordinance, something, i garentee it

Shhh... Those are dirty little secrets...

I actually take advantage of the little "illegal" guys. If someone wants me to give a bid and I don't like the property for whatever reason I tell the homeowner that I am booked up and I will see if I can find someone to do it for them. There are 2 or 3 guys locally that I can call. I still look good to the homeowner because I helped them out and the homeowner gets their grass cut.

fastlane
12-11-2004, 05:29 PM
Where I live if you have a sales tax # your're legal.

Gautreaux's LNG
12-11-2004, 05:51 PM
Got my start doing cash work.. had my licenses and insurance but was all cash design/install business for a couple of years. When I started doing commercial and maintenance I had to start reporting. Right up until the end I still did some cash business but reported about 90-95% of my income.

Wouldn't bother reporting a guy who you think is doing cash business. I would report a guy for being unlicensed or spraying w/o a pest. app. license.

dcondon
12-11-2004, 06:13 PM
If you do a great job, don't worry about the other people. The work will come to you!!!! As many people around here that cut grass I would have to worry all day long. We do help out Tiedeman and he helps us also. Not many LCO's will even wave in this area.

hardwork2
12-11-2004, 06:35 PM
From what I have seen from reading the responses'. It looks like you should take care of your business and let everyone else do the same. You being in jersey you should know what happens to rats. enough said

GrassBustersLawn
12-11-2004, 06:52 PM
I don't get it, with the "worry about your business, the other guy will go away" attitude. IT IS HIS BUSINESS & HE IS WORRYING ABOUT IT! Maybe, JUST MAYBE, if all the legal LCO's complained to the local authority about all the ILLEGAL OPS out there (and we all KNOW that at least 50% are uninsured, unlicensed and not paying taxes) then they might do something about it! But they'd probably invent some new "license" that would cost all of us legal ops another $100 a truck or mower or crew. :(

Also, the "other guy" usually doesn't go away until he tries to grow and has to start getting legal and then all of a sudden his scrubby beer money rates won't pay for the insurance & warehouse & licenses. And by that time there are 4 more scrubs fighting to pick up the scraps. Which continues to keep the market rates down for all of us "legal ops".

Mike

blankenshiplawncare
12-11-2004, 06:56 PM
How do you know they are illegal? The only thing an LCO has to do to be legal is obtain a license from the city or county that he operates in. There are no laws requiring him to have liability insurance. If he wants to operate without insurance, that's a risk he has to take. If he's not paying taxes that doesn't make him an illegal LCO...he's a tax cheat and nothing more.

Don't worry about LCO's that you assume are illegal. If they are illegal...they will disappear eventually. They always do.

I agree! I don't have a tax ID except my SSN#. I don't resell anything to my customers. I don't have to have insurance, workman's comp, pay quarterly taxes. I do if I want to take certain jobs though. (I have insurance and workman's comp btw) I pay my taxes at the end of the year as a sole proprietor. I mix the money I make at Circuit City on the weekends and the Air National Guard and the Lawn Care Business together and pay taxes on the total amount. I just don't see why people think that you have to have anything past a business license to operate a business. Maybe this differs in different states?. I don't think it is wise to do it without the other things like insurance and workman's comp but its not illegal, just stupid. You get my point.

DSIM
12-11-2004, 07:59 PM
In Texas, all you need is a tax permit and a assumed business name.

I think trying to call in on someone that you THINK is operating illegally is a bad idea.
What evidence is there that you could prove someone working illegally?
I say forget about it.

Turf Medic
12-11-2004, 08:10 PM
Contact the IRS to start with. I too get tired of these guys underbidding us because they dont pay insurance, taxes and licenses. And Lawnboy89, he is minding his own business. Doing his part to prevent the cheaters from taking his business is a smart thing to do in todays business world, get a clue


Unless things have changed dramatically over the last few years, make sure your house is in order before calling the IRS. They get so many bogus reports they usually won't do anything if the report is given anonomously, and they used to check out the person doing the reporting first.

lawnman_scott
12-11-2004, 08:12 PM
I think someone should bring up threads like this around april 1st when all of the "scrubs" or "here come the new guys" or "lowballer got my lawn" threads come up. So many people will cry like babies when they loose a lawn to someone they want to beleive is doing something wrong, but then do nothing about it.
Differnt states, counties and cities have different laws. All you have to have here is an occupational lisence, and all you have to do to find out if someone has one is go to the city hall and ask.

shortgut
12-12-2004, 01:15 AM
Why ?
I would not want anybody to drop a so call dime on me I really think that I have enough problems with the goverment as it is trying to do it legal with out somebody who out of a jealous fit or mad because they do not like me or my looks or my equipment or I'm in their so called turf I do not advertise at all All my yards which all we basically do is mow and weedeat we do not do extra stuff like fertlizer or install yards I do not have time my full time job is a schoolbus driver believe you me If you do not care for the kids you would not do this job cause many of the kids do not have any resect one for anybody or anything or themselves but it alone does not pay the medical bills I have due to cancer I was before the cancer took it toll on me I was a long distance trucker but after two years of staying home due to the after affects of the cancer I decided to try to go back to work but My old job was scared of me a libility to them incase I hurt myself or cause a accident and so they put me out on disability I ended up ok they give me a small under 150.00 a month disability but the insurance they had for me went from 80.00 a month to over 600.00 a month in a period foprm 1997 to 2003 was not able to afford it. So the school district had a add in the paper so I took the schoolbus driver job and they offered insurance so I put up with all the ungratfully kids for after they take taxes out ans also all the other stuff out it leaves me with about 175.00 for a month
Why report them? would you want someone to do you that way? Do not think you would

HOOLIE
12-12-2004, 01:45 AM
I don't see how any of us could know whether or not another guy is legit or without having some insider information. Just because another guy came in lower doesn't mean anything, he might just be a poor businessman.

Do we really need more government regulation, more licenses, fees, renewals to keep track of? Let the scrubs price themselves out of existence, IMO.

Critical Care
12-12-2004, 11:36 AM
I have a feeling that a lot of guys (professionals?) here are trying to slip under the radar, or are pleading ignorance. They don’t want to cast the first stone at someone else because of the fear that they will be detected. When you have more at stake, you have more to lose. Here is a quote from the Office of the Secretary of State (Oregon) regarding Workers’ Comp.

"When the Workers' Compensation Division discovers you don't have required workers' compensation coverage, you are subject to a fine. The penalty for a first offense is two times the amount of premium you should have paid for insurance, with a minimum of $1,000. If you continue to employ without coverage, the penalty is an additional $250 per day with no limit on the total fine. In addition, the Workers' Compensation Division will request a court injunction to force you to stay in compliance; if you disobey the injunction, you are subject to additional sanctions including jail time."

All it takes is for you to fire a lazy bum employee, and he could turn right around and bite you where the sun doesn’t shine by reporting you.

Randy Scott
12-12-2004, 11:52 AM
I have a feeling that a lot of guys (professionals?) here are trying to slip under the radar, or are pleading ignorance. They don’t want to cast the first stone at someone else because of the fear that they will be detected. When you have more at stake, you have more to lose.

Geez, you think? :) I think the biggest problem would be making false accusations about another company. Short of being on the inside and sneaking into someones filing cabinets, I wouldn't trust what any person says about another company that is supposedly illegal. How do you really know for 100%? You don't. So if you're prepared to drag yourself along with it, then go ahead.

Trust me, I would LOVE to rat on the basTURDS that are screwing this industry up. I can make assumptions about companies in my area, but how would I really get the proof. I wish there was a way to handle this problem, I just don't see how. I am open for suggestions though.

Critical Care
12-12-2004, 12:18 PM
Randy, you're right. False accusations don't get you far, but state agencies have people hired as auditors to look into these things. It's their job, and we can't make life too easy on them, eh?

Things that give people away in my state who try to work as landscape contractors... The pic at the bottom of my posts is of a sticker that needs to be on vehicles that perform landscape contractor work. If someone is doing that work without a sticker it's going to draw attention.

Landscape advertising without printing a license number draws attention.

And, the Internet is fair game for anyone who wants to get status details of a companies business license.

DFW Area Landscaper
12-12-2004, 12:46 PM
This subject has been brought up again. I brought it up about a year ago and almost everyone told me I was a fool for even asking about something like this.

I see LCO's and landscape companies with employees riding around in the back of pickups and cargo vans all the time. There is no doubt they are in violation of the law. Open and shut case. No need to audit any books or anything costly and time consuming like that. Police drive by and do absolutely nothing. The cost to comply with the law would be a crew cab as opposed to a regular cab. This is a very real and substantial cost.

So why doesn't the law work?

Lack of enforcement.

So why don't I turn them in and force the police to enforce the laws?

Because all of the other violations beyond that are only a hunch.

----When in Rome, Do as the Romans Do----

Later,
DFW Area Landscaper

Critical Care
12-12-2004, 02:43 PM
I don't think that traffic laws apply to whether or not a business is operating legally. Traffic violations target drivers, rather than companies. When I worked for another LCO I got nailed for driving too fast through a school zone. That was my problem, not the companies.

DFW, sometimes police are a bit lenient as long as you don't overdo it. Every year I guide some rafts down a stretch of whitewater, and have to drive back to the launching site with the back of my truck full of people. Law enforcement is thick in the area, and they're keeping an eye on you, but if you're not screwing up they won't stop you.

scaglawnsnj
12-12-2004, 04:43 PM
Simple Don't Report Them!! It's A Rude Ghester Toward Other Little Guys,they're Jus Trying To Make A Buck Too..there's Too Much Work In Nj To Even Worry About That Bull. Focuse On Advertizing Gmj Lawns Inc Fully Insured Pay Taxes

BryPaulD
12-12-2004, 04:48 PM
I'm sure everybody has their lil non legal secrets.......so let's rat on everybody. It'll be a big rat fest. Then we can all get jobs as cops or something ;) naaaah

YardPro
12-12-2004, 06:30 PM
Simple Don't Report Them!! It's A Rude Ghester Toward Other Little Guys,they're Jus Trying To Make A Buck Too..there's Too Much Work In Nj To Even Worry About That Bull. Focuse On Advertizing Gmj Lawns Inc Fully Insured Pay Taxes

form what bobby says there are too many scrubs beating down the price. You must be one of them.....

Pikey2574
12-12-2004, 06:43 PM
I see LCO's and landscape companies with employees riding around in the back of pickups and cargo vans all the time. There is no doubt they are in violation of the law. Open and shut case. No need to audit any books or anything costly and time consuming like that. Police drive by and do absolutely nothing. The cost to comply with the law would be a crew cab as opposed to a regular cab. This is a very real and substantial cost.




In texas you are allowed to ride in the bed of a pickup truck as long as you are over the age of 16 or maybe 18. So the LCOs arn't breaking the law.. Though a crew cab would at least show a company cared for its employees.

DFW Area Landscaper
12-12-2004, 07:33 PM
++++In texas you are allowed to ride in the bed of a pickup truck as long as you are over the age of 16 or maybe 18++++

We're getting a little off subject here, but that struck me as odd. I called the non-emergency number to the Lewisville police. I was told that unless the vehicle is in a parade, state law prohibits the carrying of passengers in the bed of a pickup or cargo van.

Later,
DFW Area Landscaper

Harleyboy52
12-12-2004, 08:38 PM
Man, Y'all are talking about Texas!! I figured in Texas you were SUPPOSED to ride in the back of a pickup. In N. C. the law is 16 and over it's OK.

bobbygedd
12-12-2004, 08:55 PM
form what bobby says there are too many scrubs beating down the price. You must be one of them.....
it's not the scrubs who drive down prices. it is the legitimate "professionals" that drive them down

Envy Lawn Service
12-12-2004, 10:10 PM
Boy-o-boy do I have a story for you guys! It's one I've been trying to keep to myself just as a nice jesture, and also to avoid all the questions I would not want to answer simply because I'm not in the business of making enimies....

But it's a story worthy of a thread of it's own. So I will post it sometime when I'm not trying to wind down for bed because it's sure to get me all wired up when I go to tell it.

Just know that I am one of those people that does have "insider information" sources.
I needed them badly when I was running my financial services brokerage. I used them to 'sniff out' illegal businesses prior to offering them my services. You can just imagine how ugly something like that could get.... nuff said there....

The point is I retained those sources for use in this business also. I figured it might come in handy sometime if I got a bad vibe about working for a certain company. I just never used it to 'sniff out' an LCO before, because I never really had a reason to until a while back....

MOW ED
12-13-2004, 07:19 AM
Truthfully. it looks like Hank III is playin all of ya. Take a hot topic and bring it up again to P1ss people off. Go and look at this guys other post whining about policemen and firefighters working side jobs. Just another ghost from the past stirring krap here. After 42 responses to his thread he hasn't come back.
I can see its gonna be a long winter. Pound sand Hank.

hank III
12-14-2004, 08:09 PM
kind sir the basic question is why do people whom have professional jobs with incomes,insurnace,retirement,paid holiday's,40 hr weeks etc.,etc. whom are setting the laws and our taxes are paying them think it is o.k. to put "our" income in their pockets. my friend I am busy and am not able to spend all day on this computer. thank you for the concern hank III I have read everyones comments and they have helped be tremendously. i have never bothered anyone but have helped others improve their business. thank you

Ol'time Lawncare
12-14-2004, 08:21 PM
Who the f*** has the time the report scrubs,theres more then enough work for all of use and some one has to call the cops, what a sissy, if the shoe fits were it!!! :angry:

dvmcmrhp52
12-14-2004, 08:35 PM
kind sir the basic question is why do people whom have professional jobs with incomes,insurnace,retirement,paid holiday's,40 hr weeks etc.,etc. whom are setting the laws and our taxes are paying them think it is o.k. to put "our" income in their pockets.



"our income in their pockets"?????

Please explain to me what makes a whiner like you think that no one but you is allowed to make money.
This is America fool, there are some VERY respectable people on this site with a full time income and benefits etc. that are running a partime lawncare business.
They are some of the finest people I have had the opportunity to converse with.
Sounds to me like you simply don't have what it takes to run a business so you will whine about those who happen to have it together a bit more than you.
It's called envy.

bobbygedd
12-14-2004, 08:38 PM
"our income in their pockets"?????


This is America fool, there are some VERY respectable people on this site with a full time income and benefits etc. that are running a partime lawncare business.
They are some of the finest people I have had the opportunity to converse with.

WOW, thanks dvm, for the fine compliments. how long have you felt this way about me?

dvmcmrhp52
12-14-2004, 08:43 PM
WOW, thanks dvm, for the fine compliments. how long have you felt this way about me?

You're welcome for the compliment................the feelings???????? we'll just leave that alone. I'm not quite ready for reversing roles.................. :waving:



Sometimes people just need a kick in the head to wake them up to reality. This dude has no clue.

Critical Care
12-14-2004, 08:54 PM
I wonder how most of you would feel if for some reason your clients began dropping you like a hot potato.

You ask them, "What's the matter? Is there something wrong with my service?"

But they reply, "No, it's not that, but Bun Busters Lawncare just offered us the same service that you're offering but for half the price."

You know that Bun Busters Lawncare is a low-balling fly-by-night illegal scrub outfit. Are you going to shrug your shoulders and just say, "Oh well, there's enough work for all of us."

bobbygedd
12-14-2004, 08:56 PM
chances are, a big company , that is legit, will lowball me faster than bunbusters

Ol'time Lawncare
12-14-2004, 09:04 PM
If your relationship is good with your customer,and i'm shore you all operate with a contracts , then why even worry about that scrub???

Smalltimer1
12-14-2004, 09:31 PM
i honestly am trying to find out how to and to whom do we report illegal lawn care operators. basically, the people whom have jobs and insurance,health,vacations,holiday's decent mones,retirement etc etc. getting stopped to many times and questioned and then seeing the same type of "professional" cutting grass and pockiting the rewards has gotten to me. why do we need commercal plates and others do not , pay taxes,insurance,health,retirement, etc etc. i am a legal business in this for at least 25yrs and cannot believe how many people are illegal but complain about the hard working hispanics/and the kids trying to help the neighbor. lots of questions but we are in this together hank III i also own a small janitorial business that gets me through the year hank III

You shouldn't be mowing--you should be with the IRS or something.

dvmcmrhp52
12-14-2004, 09:37 PM
I wonder how most of you would feel if for some reason your clients began dropping you like a hot potato.

You ask them, "What's the matter? Is there something wrong with my service?"

But they reply, "No, it's not that, but Bun Busters Lawncare just offered us the same service that you're offering but for half the price."

You know that Bun Busters Lawncare is a low-balling fly-by-night illegal scrub outfit. Are you going to shrug your shoulders and just say, "Oh well, there's enough work for all of us."



The question is: do you know this for sure or are you just envious of a business that is better run? Or a part time business that is run for the dreaded "extra cash"?
Trying to put down part time operators because you can't compete is just plain obnoxious. Learn to compete with them if you must or find a different clientele or add services, etc.
These are businesses we're talking about not government handouts.

By the way, just to be clear, I am not condoning illegal operations, I was set off by the "taking money out of OUR pocket" comment.

iluvbermuda
12-14-2004, 09:37 PM
If you are making a good living and he is not bothering you, then mind your own business. I mean, we shouldn't judge people. What are you going to do? Ask this guy if he has a city or county license? If you are a true professional and do a good job, then he is not gonna hurt your business. He will probably be doing the crap jobs that you don't even want. Maybe he is trying to support 4 kids on his own cause his wife left or even worse has passed away. Not to hammer you brother, but dam man, live and let live. I give work to other guys all the time. Why??? Because there is more than enough work for all of us. If we could all work together and not try to slash each others throat it would be a much better world.

bobbygedd
12-14-2004, 09:41 PM
if you are operating legally, and paying your taxes, you should be mad at the people who are supposed to be enforcing laws, they are the ones screwing you. if they did thier job, the one you are paying them to do, you wouldn't need to worry about it

caz1
12-14-2004, 10:14 PM
How do you know they are illegal? The only thing an LCO has to do to be legal is obtain a license from the city or county that he operates in. There are no laws requiring him to have liability insurance. If he wants to operate without insurance, that's a risk he has to take. If he's not paying taxes that doesn't make him an illegal LCO...he's a tax cheat and nothing more.

Don't worry about LCO's that you assume are illegal. If they are illegal...they will disappear eventually. They always do.


don't need a license at all for LCO's in my state or county or city

scaglawnsnj
01-04-2005, 07:06 PM
I find the term low baller funny. In fact i charge more then most about 10.00 per customer then most guys..the reason i know is a few older working class women, shew me a invoisesof their old landscapers my bill was 40.00 more a month then the big outfits. and they said its ok, i do such a wonderful job..my secret criss cross stripes.....makes a house look like a million bucks

grass-scapes
01-04-2005, 07:31 PM
what i find about most guys, is that most guys think it's a crime to work without ins, or pay under the table, but it's ok for them to apply without a permit, or pocket some cash. it's like a double standard thing. i bet every single guy on this board is doing something illegal, wether it be pocketing cash, applying without a license, breaking city ordinance, something, i garentee it

You'd lose.
I do everything by the book... I report all money made...yes, even cash. I have one job in another town and I have a license to operate in that city.
I have my pesticide license. I pay my employee(s) the way im supposed to. Im not perfect, but I do things by the book for MY protection.

bobbygedd
01-04-2005, 07:39 PM
You'd lose.
I do everything by the book... I report all money made...yes, even cash. I have one job in another town and I have a license to operate in that city.
I have my pesticide license. I pay my employee(s) the way im supposed to. Im not perfect, but I do things by the book for MY protection.
do u store your equipment at home, or at a rented facility? do u store pesticides?

Likestomow
01-04-2005, 08:06 PM
aaahhhh... what's the best backpack blower?

mownredneck
01-04-2005, 08:10 PM
talking about stuff that is illegal and costing other people money think about this: the next time you break the speed limit or "accidentally" run a red light, think about the person behind you that had to pay for a speeding ticket and seeing someone getting away with it, while they had to suffer! you are not perfect yourself. WHEN YOU POINT A FINGER YOU HAVE 4 MORE POINTING BACK AT YOU!

grass disaster
01-04-2005, 08:14 PM
in 04 i've paid in over 18k to uncle sam i really don't feel bad about pocketing $20(green) from my grandma.

rodzilla94
01-04-2005, 09:40 PM
hank my man let me ask you and all the other lco's a question i don't mean to be rude at all but let me give every one of you all that agree with him something to think about . Try to remember when you all started this biz you where new,half scared but willing to do this biz. eather full time or part time if any of you guys (the ones agreeing with hank) did one lawn just one without a license or ins. then you was a scrub don't stand on your soap boxes and tell people there ether scum or dogsh*t on the bottom of the shoes of so called real lco's we all start somewhere i see alot of people on this sight say they are or should i say have it all new trucks and equipment but we all started out as scrubs all of us no one can really sit there and tell me they had all the requirements ins. and licenses when they started . how can you start out with 1 or 2 clients and justify all that overhead. so what if these guys have nothing, mow with nothing but let me say i would rather see these guys on mowers than on welfare so i can keep them up. just remember we all started somewhere in the back of a car or pushed the mower down the street....I'm trying to say don't judge someone when we all started most likely the same way

grass-scapes
01-04-2005, 10:08 PM
do u store your equipment at home, or at a rented facility? do u store pesticides?
Yes, I do store pesticides.....Locked. Labeled. All msds sheets printed and hung nearby. And yes I store my equipment at home, but I don't have employees here, therefore, I am not breaking any ordinance.

and before you decide to rant about if I have this or that, if its illegal I don't do it...If its stupid, but not illegal..well, thats another story. Im not perfect, but I make every ATTEMPT to stay within the law in EVERY aspect of my life.

bobbygedd
01-05-2005, 05:37 AM
Yes, I do store pesticides.....Locked. Labeled. All msds sheets printed and hung nearby. And yes I store my equipment at home, but I don't have employees here, therefore, I am not breaking any ordinance.

and before you decide to rant about if I have this or that, if its illegal I don't do it...If its stupid, but not illegal..well, thats another story. Im not perfect, but I make every ATTEMPT to stay within the law in EVERY aspect of my life.
is your home zoned as a commercial zone? if you are calling clients from your home, storing equipment at your home, recieving mail at your home (checks, etc) then you are running a business from your home. is your property registered with the local fire dept as a pesticide storage facility? if you're storing pesticides there, it had better be, or you are in violation. the phone you use to call clients, is it registered as a business line? if it's not, you're breaking the law, if it is, you don't use the same phone for any personal calls do you? your truck, which is registered to your business, and insured commercially, is not used to go to the grocery store, or for any other personal use is it? you don't use fertilizers, lawn mowers, weedwackers, etc from your business to cut or treat your own lawn do you? your work shoes, raincoats, that you claim as clothing for your business, you don't wear them when you're not on the timeclock, do you? YOUR STATEMENT: "if it's stupid, and illegal, well...." OH, SO NOW you pick and choose which laws are convenient, and if they are not, then they are "stupid", and therfor don't apply to you? you're a funny guy dude.

grass-scapes
01-05-2005, 05:41 PM
is your home zoned as a commercial zone? if you are calling clients from your home, storing equipment at your home, recieving mail at your home (checks, etc) then you are running a business from your home. is your property registered with the local fire dept as a pesticide storage facility? if you're storing pesticides there, it had better be, or you are in violation. the phone you use to call clients, is it registered as a business line? if it's not, you're breaking the law, if it is, you don't use the same phone for any personal calls do you? your truck, which is registered to your business, and insured commercially, is not used to go to the grocery store, or for any other personal use is it? you don't use fertilizers, lawn mowers, weedwackers, etc from your business to cut or treat your own lawn do you? your work shoes, raincoats, that you claim as clothing for your business, you don't wear them when you're not on the timeclock, do you? YOUR STATEMENT: "if it's stupid, and illegal, well...." OH, SO NOW you pick and choose which laws are convenient, and if they are not, then they are "stupid", and therfor don't apply to you? you're a funny guy dude.In anwer to your questions, No, yes, No (po box), no (pesticides in trailer, locked and labeled) yes, no, in this state I can use truck registerd to me(sole proprietership) yes,no (I wear my regular clothes and Im not required to change because I don't HAVE a timeclock (see sole proprietership) when did I say some laws were stupid. I said I might be stupid when it comes to some things I follow the law. And I believe more people get laughs from YOU than from me. I know I do, thats for sure.

bobbygedd
01-05-2005, 08:22 PM
so, you are not zoned commercial, but you ARE running a business from your home. you ARE storing pesticides, but ARE NOT registered with the fire dept as a PESTICIDE STORAGE AREA? interesting, you are BREAKING THE LAW, and endangering the lives of the local fire dept, pd, and your neighbors

lawnman_scott
01-05-2005, 08:47 PM
so, you are not zoned commercial, but you ARE running a business from your home. you ARE storing pesticides, but ARE NOT registered with the fire dept as a PESTICIDE STORAGE AREA? interesting, you are BREAKING THE LAW, and endangering the lives of the local fire dept, pd, and your neighbors
Didnt you once say that those things are just tools, and since you dont have customers coming to the house your not running a business out of the home? Where do you store yours?

bobbygedd
01-05-2005, 08:57 PM
yes scott, that was MY FIGHT with city hall. and as always, victory was mine. he needs to take that up with the borough where he lives. as far as pesticides, no way i'll store them on my property, it opens up a whole new can of worms

Smalltimer1
01-05-2005, 11:13 PM
so, you are not zoned commercial, but you ARE running a business from your home. you ARE storing pesticides, but ARE NOT registered with the fire dept as a PESTICIDE STORAGE AREA? interesting, you are BREAKING THE LAW, and endangering the lives of the local fire dept, pd, and your neighbors

Some places do not require registration such as that. The place I live is not even incorporated as a town or city, there are no ordinances that say I can't keep my equipment here. I've got all my junk machines either in the woods, or behind the shed in the back yard. My primary equipment is kept under the carport, and my small equipment is kept in a small shop of mine in the back yard, locked up so they won't grow legs and walk away.

There's a guy that died with a heart attack down the street that was even more into it than I am, and he kept all his chemicals and stuff in a little 8'x10' metal building in his back yard and kept his equipment on the trailer or in his truck.

grass-scapes
01-05-2005, 11:37 PM
Some places do not require registration such as that. The place I live is not even incorporated as a town or city, there are no ordinances that say I can't keep my equipment here. I've got all my junk machines either in the woods, or behind the shed in the back yard. My primary equipment is kept under the carport, and my small equipment is kept in a small shop of mine in the back yard, locked up so they won't grow legs and walk away.

There's a guy that died with a heart attack down the street that was even more into it than I am, and he kept all his chemicals and stuff in a little 8'x10' metal building in his back yard and kept his equipment on the trailer or in his truck.
Thank you for explaining that to Bobby. Seems no one can get it through his skull....what may be an ordinance where he is, is not where I am...I am in an unincorporated part of the county, therefore I am not breaking the laws WHERE I AM. Do you understand now, Bobby?

bobbygedd
01-05-2005, 11:40 PM
yea, i understand just fine now. which one of you is a hatfield, and which one is a mccoy?

zoomer
01-06-2005, 12:28 AM
We recently had the same question posted on the Klingon Lawn Care board. The answer is that if Dr. Spock recommends the LCO, there is no problem.

Long live and prosper...

Smalltimer1
01-06-2005, 12:38 AM
The only places around here that have those kinds of ordinances are housing developments with homeowner's associations. There are several guys I know that have to stay on their toes as far as what they do with their equipment and stuff.

I went down in there back in June to put up flyers in one particular development, and less than a day later the president of the HOA had taken it down--so now I know who to really work on with my advertising. He's also the same guy who tried to run for mayor and the rest of the town knew about how he treats the folks in the development, and so he got only like 50 votes out of the 5000+ people who voted last year.

Smalltimer1
01-06-2005, 12:44 AM
yea, i understand just fine now. which one of you is a hatfield, and which one is a mccoy?

We are not uncivilized, just we live in an area where such things are not taken as serious as they are up north. You wouldn't believe the number of people that have moved down here from up in your neck of the woods in the past 10 years. A house that is $500,000 there, is only $200,000 here (relatively speaking). Essentially people are making money by moving south, and now everyone is suffering because we are losing farm land by the 100's of acres, and also not all the houses built are sold right off. A lot of the people who moved came for jobs, and those jobs laid them off around '99 or so, and every body was crying because it wasn't the way it was back up north. Heck we just sold off 35 acres 6 months ago, and now 40 houses are being built on what was a cow pasture just last year.

the scaper
01-06-2005, 01:09 AM
Wow, what a long thread. To the origional poster I can only say- minding your own friggin business will serve you the best! :)

grass-scapes
01-06-2005, 07:52 AM
Im sorry Bobby, but we all cant live in New Jerkey. I know you'd like it, because you could have even more problem clients that you could complain about on here.
By the way, Im a Hatfield. LOL

bobbygedd
01-06-2005, 08:46 AM
my god, a society where there are no laws, no ordinances, do what you want, act like you want, no one to stop you........how do i get there? they got beer there?

drodgers
01-06-2005, 08:59 AM
my god, a society where there are no laws, no ordinances, do what you want, act like you want, no one to stop you........
nobody said anything about no laws. they live in part of the county that does not have the regulations other areas do. Just because there is a law where you live doesn't mean it applies everywhere.

on the subject of reporting "illegal operations"...how do you know they are not legal? Just because they happen to be working with an older mower from the back of their truck? Or maybe it is beacause they drive and older truck and have older equipment. Do you stop and ask them if they working under the table unlicensed and uninsured? I do my lawn biz part time. I have a desire to take it full time, but it is not financially feasible at the present time. I run good stuff, have insurance, pay my taxes, have a local business license. But if you saw me out cutting maybe you would think I am working under the table since you don't see me day in a day out and I don't have a big fancy rig. I say mind your own business. You are the one that is going to cause a problem. If I were to get hassled by the local officials because someone like you reported me for being "illegal" I would probably be upset over the wasted time.

Smalltimer1
01-06-2005, 11:40 AM
my god, a society where there are no laws, no ordinances, do what you want, act like you want, no one to stop you........how do i get there? they got beer there?

There's plenty of law here. No guns can be discharged within the boundaries of this area. No big fireworks. Stuff like that.

bobbygedd
01-06-2005, 12:39 PM
i don't get these laws. YOU'RE NOT allowed to play with firecrackers, but you ARE ALLOWED to marry your siblings? i'm confused :dizzy:

Critical Care
01-06-2005, 04:08 PM
Not worried about operating illegally? Look at page 2 of this current publication and see what's happened to some guys out here.

http://www.oregon.gov/LCB/docs/Newsletter/december04newsletter.pdf

richard coffman
01-06-2005, 04:25 PM
reporting a company doing illegal business is walking on thin ice!!!. I'd stick to doing your own work and not worry about the lawn company down the road. this can cause problems , but if they find out is was you or it got leaked out and they want to get even, watch out cause it may happen. you have no idea what they may do (stirring up a bees nest). I'd say smile, wave and go on with your own business. not worth putting you or your business in the cross hairs.

Respectfully,

Richard/Owner ;) ;) ;)

richard coffman
01-06-2005, 04:47 PM
is your home zoned as a commercial zone? if you are calling clients from your home, storing equipment at your home, recieving mail at your home (checks, etc) then you are running a business from your home. is your property registered with the local fire dept as a pesticide storage facility? if you're storing pesticides there, it had better be, or you are in violation. the phone you use to call clients, is it registered as a business line? if it's not, you're breaking the law, if it is, you don't use the same phone for any personal calls do you? your truck, which is registered to your business, and insured commercially, is not used to go to the grocery store, or for any other personal use is it? you don't use fertilizers, lawn mowers, weedwackers, etc from your business to cut or treat your own lawn do you? your work shoes, raincoats, that you claim as clothing for your business, you don't wear them when you're not on the timeclock, do you? YOUR STATEMENT: "if it's stupid, and illegal, well...." OH, SO NOW you pick and choose which laws are convenient, and if they are not, then they are "stupid", and therfor don't apply to you? you're a funny guy dude.


Bobby, there are different laws in different states, there is no need to run a magnify glass over other people. Be happy that we're all hear to learn from another.

Respectfully,

Richard/Owner

bobbygedd
01-06-2005, 04:49 PM
richard, i'm glad you're here. i'm glad they are here. i'm just happy to be here, happy to be alive.

richard coffman
01-06-2005, 04:58 PM
richard, i'm glad you're here. i'm glad they are here. i'm just happy to be here, happy to be alive.

thanks Bobby. anyone got log cabin fever yet?? I'm half tempted to mow some snow down. LOL
:D :D

Turf Medic
01-06-2005, 05:02 PM
richard, i'm glad you're here. i'm glad they are here. i'm just happy to be here, happy to be alive.

So when do we all hold hands and sing Kum By Ya :cool2: :cool2: :cool2:

lawncutr
01-06-2005, 05:05 PM
Too many other things in life to worry about...what goes around comes around....I wouldn't want to report anothe guy cause he may go psychoafter learning that you turned him in...and yes your complaint IS a public record...I don't need no fool showing up on my porch at 4 AM with a lawnmower blade in one hand babbling about how he can't feed his kids now and it's all my fault

lawncutr
01-06-2005, 05:07 PM
Besides...the GOOD stable jobs that pay well are not looking for just some fool with a lawnmower to give them a good deal.

lawncutr
01-06-2005, 05:16 PM
There ought to be no more whining about how some scub took a job....little Juan Pablo is coming to a neighborhood near you soon...so you better saddle up and be prepared to work hard...cause he is more determined than Michael Moore at a hot dog eating contest.

bobbygedd
01-06-2005, 05:35 PM
thanks Bobby. anyone got log cabin fever yet?? I'm half tempted to mow some snow down. LOL
:D :D
i'm about to mow down a 12 pack, and do some bench presses. cabin fever? are u nuts. i like it here, it's quiet, warm, safe, nobody screwin with me

lawncutr
01-06-2005, 05:55 PM
Yeah...nice to be in that winter mode....eating a few twinkies.....benchpresses? are you crazy...you are suppose to be gaining weight in the winter....I love this forum...it keeps me from maxing out my credit cards on web porn....gotta stay focused...thats why I don't drink while looking at the computer....those websites just call to me enough as it is..I gotta have some restraint.

bobbygedd
01-06-2005, 06:14 PM
i only drink while looking at lawnsite. and also, when i'm not

Smalltimer1
01-06-2005, 06:33 PM
i don't get these laws. YOU'RE NOT allowed to play with firecrackers, but you ARE ALLOWED to marry your siblings? i'm confused :dizzy:


I'm sorry did I forget to mention I live in NC and not West Virginia??

Evergreenpros
01-06-2005, 06:38 PM
i honestly am trying to find out how to and to whom do we report illegal lawn care operators. basically, the people whom have jobs and insurance,health,vacations,holiday's decent mones,retirement etc etc. getting stopped to many times and questioned and then seeing the same type of "professional" cutting grass and pockiting the rewards has gotten to me. why do we need commercal plates and others do not , pay taxes,insurance,health,retirement, etc etc. i am a legal business in this for at least 25yrs and cannot believe how many people are illegal but complain about the hard working hispanics/and the kids trying to help the neighbor. lots of questions but we are in this together hank III i also own a small janitorial business that gets me through the year hank III


It's tough to prove. In the residential cleaning business over 80% of the work is done by "black market labor", leaving 20% to businesses and independents. I'd imagine residential lawn care is about the same.

It would be tough to even scratch the surface faced with those numbers. The only thing we can really do is express to potential customers that they are in fact hiring a company that pays it taxes and gives back to the community. You can't really blame customers though, when is the last time you bought a piece of equipment and asked the dealer to prove he paid all the appropriate taxes?

Critical Care
01-07-2005, 08:34 PM
Some of you may not worry about an illegally operating company moving in next door to you as long as there’s plenty of work to go around, right? It’s a bit like some poor Joe sneaking in at night and stealing a couple heads of lettuce out of your veggie garden. No biggie, you have a big garden, and the guy is desperate. But what happens if your garden isn’t that big and the guy rips you off of just about everything you’ve worked hard for?

Likewise, if you worked hard for your business, and then some illegally operating “poor Joe” sneaks in and steals your clients away from you, would you just throw your hands up into the air and say, “Oh pity me, but the poor chap does need the work!”

When it gets personal, you may think twice.

richard coffman
01-07-2005, 09:55 PM
i'm about to mow down a 12 pack, and do some bench presses. cabin fever? are u nuts. i like it here, it's quiet, warm, safe, nobody screwin with me

Bobby, I wouldn't mind livin in your neck of the wood during the winter months, here in Utah, there isn't much to do here except ski up in park city, drink, and just wait for march to come around. wish it would warm up here.

Respectfully,

Richard :drinkup: :drinkup: :drinkup:

richard coffman
01-07-2005, 10:03 PM
Some of you may not worry about an illegally operating company moving in next door to you as long as there’s plenty of work to go around, right? It’s a bit like some poor Joe sneaking in at night and stealing a couple heads of lettuce out of your veggie garden. No biggie, you have a big garden, and the guy is desperate. But what happens if your garden isn’t that big and the guy rips you off of just about everything you’ve worked hard for?

Likewise, if you worked hard for your business, and then some illegally operating “poor Joe” sneaks in and steals your clients away from you, would you just throw your hands up into the air and say, “Oh pity me, but the poor chap does need the work!”

When it gets personal, you may think twice.

it get's personal if someone's on my property tryin to steal something that's mine, I'd get a rope and string him up. if it's a customer, they come and go, but all you can do is do the best you can and hope they stay loyal to ya.

Critical Care
01-08-2005, 12:08 AM
The illegal operating business could also be laughing behind your back, "Dudes, we're gonna put this guy outa business!"

And, by the way, Richard... go Skyline Eagles! Spent a number of years back there...

Soupy
01-08-2005, 03:46 AM
Some of you may not worry about an illegally operating company moving in next door to you as long as there’s plenty of work to go around, right? It’s a bit like some poor Joe sneaking in at night and stealing a couple heads of lettuce out of your veggie garden. No biggie, you have a big garden, and the guy is desperate. But what happens if your garden isn’t that big and the guy rips you off of just about everything you’ve worked hard for?

Likewise, if you worked hard for your business, and then some illegally operating “poor Joe” sneaks in and steals your clients away from you, would you just throw your hands up into the air and say, “Oh pity me, but the poor chap does need the work!”

When it gets personal, you may think twice.

Good post. How about the neighbor hood kid that cuts a couple of lawns on saturday. We look at that as no big deal. But what if every kid in every neighborhood started doing it? Would we just close shop, or try to put a stop to it?

Likestomow
01-08-2005, 11:47 AM
Good post. How about the neighbor hood kid that cuts a couple of lawns on saturday. We look at that as no big deal. But what if every kid in every neighborhood started doing it? Would we just close shop, or try to put a stop to it?

Good post, but just how would you begin stopping all those kids, anyway? Maybe you could begin a national outcry!

Soupy
01-08-2005, 12:06 PM
Good post, but just how would you begin stopping all those kids, anyway? Maybe you could begin a national outcry!

Believe me if it got to where I had too. I would find a way. I would start by making sure the law was enforced. It is against the law to hire children. Most don't frown on a little grass cutting but it would fall under the child labor act. I would call and report this activity, by collecting as many address as possible with photos.

Keep in mind that I am talking hypothetical. I would never take such extreme measure unless it got to were every body was doing it. This will never happen, so it is just a worse case scenario.

wildbilly1113
01-08-2005, 12:52 PM
Hey Smalltimer 1,I live in WV. and we don't marry our siblings but my wife's uncle did marry his first cousin! Like Bobby said this life is too short to worry about things like this and what goes around will come around.Do your best and God will do the rest!

Rollacosta
01-08-2005, 12:58 PM
Hank looks like you have touched a nerve with some on here ! i'm with you if i see ilegals working i'm going to report the scum :angry: