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Guthrie&Co
12-19-2004, 11:34 PM
just wondering if anyone else notices "hat racked" trees in their area. i see it all the time and i wonder who is doing it. mostly i see it in rual areas. it looks horrible and eventually will kill the tree.

trying 2b organic
12-19-2004, 11:37 PM
I havnt heard that expression. Do you mean balling them out as if they were a small boxwood? Making hard pruning cuts at the end of branches instead of thining cuts at the trunk? Someone is saving a buck by paying the lawnguy to do an arborists work. jk :blush:

out4now
12-19-2004, 11:37 PM
See lots of lion's tailing here and guys still topping trees. Here you don't have to be a certified arborist to engage in tree work.

captaingreen
12-19-2004, 11:39 PM
Ya, it's a shame. I'm seeing less and less of it here. Even our city has begun using contour pruning, it is becoming more widely practiced with continuing education to the public in this area. :D :D :D :D

Guthrie&Co
12-19-2004, 11:41 PM
in most cases heading back or thinning out would have been the better choicein my opinion. prunning trees in that mannor will kill then most of the time and the horenous suckes that come out in the new growth. everytime i see it i get on my soapbox.

The Yard Barber, Inc.
12-19-2004, 11:44 PM
The power line guys are the worst for that because they just don't care. They just get into their little cherry pickers and wack away.

out4now
12-19-2004, 11:50 PM
I assume you're refering to Asplundh or Nelson? There are reasons they do what they do.(besides lazyness) Actaully Asplundh crews get a bonus if they can get a customer to remove a tree. Fewer wounds to heal and less power disruption and lessen the amount of future trimming.

LLandscaping
12-19-2004, 11:55 PM
I have seen trees that have all of the limbs cut off and there was just the base of the tree left. I wonder why they will not just cut the whole tree down.

Guthrie&Co
12-19-2004, 11:55 PM
well they must not think very well or often enough. as far as for less trimming in the future, i dont agree with that because of the 500 suckers that will come on with the new growth due to the poor cut. then you have alot more pruning to do as well as a ugly tree.

captaingreen
12-19-2004, 11:59 PM
Exactly. They need to be practicing contour or directional pruning, where they only prune the larger branches growing in the direction of the powerline or structure, resulting in less cuts and less suckering. I think the reason they leave a "totem pole" is to keep from having to dispose of it, less labor.

out4now
12-20-2004, 12:04 AM
Here they will make one large cut versus several smaller cuts just to elimnate that problem of all the suckers. The people to blame are the people that plant trees under power lines to begin with. I know a spot here where Valley Crest did a whole city block of Chineese Elms directly under the power lines and all had to V cut to allow for the 10 ft clearence. If a lot has to be removed like I said they try and talk the people into it so they get a bonus and don't have to come come back. If the customer doesn't go for it then they have to leave what's left of it.

Guthrie&Co
12-20-2004, 10:13 AM
sounds like a problem with misinformation. to do it thr right way is to plant a variety of shrubs and trees that you dont have to prune. now i know thats not to good on the money making end but for a homeowner that does everything himself it would be a better policy. just plant the correct cultivar then you wont have to worry with pruning.

out4now
12-20-2004, 11:01 AM
Sort of, you're still missing the point, the only reason they do prune anything is because it has encroached too far in proximity to the lines. If people would take a minute to just look around before planting this practice wouldn't even have to happen. Both our utility providers have guides on what to plant and how far from the lines to be before digging. Utility arborists have a job to do because others didn't do what they should have in the first place. Think about how houses are built they run power lines long before any landscaping is done. Asplundh is more than happy to answer questions from customers about what they do. People can also contact the Utility Arborists Association. Public needs education not the guys correcting other peoples mistakes, they just follow the rule book.

Garden Panzer
12-20-2004, 02:49 PM
check out www.plantamnesty.org
they write letters to tree toppers, and work to stop chopping of heads off trees, they're not roses.....
:rolleyes:

Frontier-Lawn
12-20-2004, 03:40 PM
check out www.plantamnesty.org
they write letters to tree toppers, and work to stop chopping of heads off trees, they're not roses.....
:rolleyes:

thats how they do crapemertile trees here in sarasota. loop off the top!! yearly

Guthrie&Co
12-20-2004, 08:50 PM
from what i can remember that is how you trim crapmyrltes. they wont flower on anything but new growth. but dont hold me to it.

MSYardman
12-20-2004, 09:17 PM
Google Crape Murder and you see a lot of explanations.

Envy Lawn Service
12-20-2004, 09:46 PM
:eek: Personally I like the roadway and power line right of way cutting that I see. I especially like the looks of a pine with the entire offending side shaved off it. Talk about scenic beauty....

Garden Panzer
12-20-2004, 09:56 PM
I've topped trees, and I've logged greenbelts, too. I'm not proud of needing to cash that check...
but-
people really need to get the right plant in the right place thing down right.... it saves allot of this topping stuff. I pitch to chop down rosebush-trees when I bid new work...and kinda frown on even possion of a rosebushtree....
:)

Olylawnboy
12-20-2004, 10:31 PM
Before it's all said and done, what does "hat racked" mean anyway? I havn't any idea of what that could mean. Would you clue me in please? Thanks....

Guthrie&Co
12-20-2004, 10:49 PM
to hat rack a tree is a expession used for the appearance of the tree. to get a hat racked tree you just cut the limb in the middle or just wherever. the right way to cut it is to cut it in the middle of the shoulder which is where comes out from the tree's trunk.

Olylawnboy
12-20-2004, 11:04 PM
But can you describe the apperance of a hat rack? I just can't see it yet. Thanks :blush:

Olylawnboy
12-20-2004, 11:05 PM
Do you mean top it from the center?

out4now
12-20-2004, 11:13 PM
Hat racking is where branches are cut back with heading cuts but not to the proper location. Biggest problem in this thread is that somehow people are confusing the issue. I don't condone topping or drastic pruning in an aesthetic situation but for utility line clearance there is often no alternative. Trees can become energized when in close proximity to lines, start fires and disrupt power grids. Personally I like my power on every day. Line clearing is done for a reason. And in many arbor culture books, and training programs they have special sections that tell you the whys of the practices and in extreme cases the best possible thing for the tree given the conditions. Removal is always the best but homeowners do not always go for it. Some company's still hat rack because even though it is worse for the tree than heading back all the way to the trunk to limit the amount of exposed surface area they do it to satisfy the tree owner. The 10 ft rule applies to the entire radius above, below and to the sides of the line. If people want the utility companies to stop this far out get ready to pay huge electric bills an sit with no power every time the wind blows. Here's a PDF from a utility company that will show you what all utility companies should be doing to educate public. http://www.pepco.com/pdf/TreeTrim_br_10_04.pdf also direct from Arborculture 3rd ed.by Harris and Clark "severe height reduction may be the only alternative when trees are directly under lines" And from the NAA(now TCI) literature "If it looks las though it is necessary to shorten all the branches on a limb to obtain clearance it may be preferable to remove the whole limb at the trunk or parent limb. Trees beside and or growing into or toward the utility space should remove entire branches or head back to lateral branch that is growing away" While it would be nice to maintain the aestetic of a tree it is not always possible. I think utlity clearers get a bad rap just for trying to fix mistakes others have made and shouldn't be ridiculed for doing what is really benefiting the public.

Guthrie&Co
12-20-2004, 11:17 PM
thanks out4now you said it much better than i could have on a computer

Frontier-Lawn
12-20-2004, 11:29 PM
from what i can remember that is how you trim crapmyrltes. they wont flower on anything but new growth. but dont hold me to it.
i wont my mom never cuts hers and it always has flowers

Guthrie&Co
12-20-2004, 11:47 PM
i wont my mom never cuts hers and it always has flowers
well smarty :dizzy: . a crapemyrtle flowers on new growth you have new growth every year. so to an extent you will have flowers every year scince every year you have new growth

Olylawnboy
12-21-2004, 12:01 AM
Thanks guys, I get it now :waving: