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Soupy
12-28-2004, 03:50 PM
I am wanting to start offering turf painting. What is the best Turf paint to use? Where can I get it? I am looking for a dye base paint. I'm not wanting to do anything fancy at first, just paint some dormant grass green. Maybe later I will get into stencils and different colors.

My main concern is the look of the Paint (dye). The second is cost when diluted.

Anyone use this stuff http://www.missouriturfpaint.com/paint_gpptrfcl.html or this stuff http://www.beckerunderwood.com/products/greenlawnger-Tu.shtml

walker-talker
12-28-2004, 05:18 PM
Lesco used to offer some lawn dye (at least last year they did). I was going to do this to my own lawn this year just to see how it looks. From previous thread I have read there was a problem with overlapping and streaks. I might have to give this a try this week while the temps are in the 60's. Honestly, I don't think in my area there is much of a demand for this, just because I have not seen any lawns with this done to them.

Smithers
12-28-2004, 05:24 PM
Lesco used to offer some lawn dye (at least last year they did).


ditto : payup

Soupy
12-28-2004, 05:33 PM
Lesco used to offer some lawn dye (at least last year they did). I was going to do this to my own lawn this year just to see how it looks. From previous thread I have read there was a problem with overlapping and streaks. I might have to give this a try this week while the temps are in the 60's. Honestly, I don't think in my area there is much of a demand for this, just because I have not seen any lawns with this done to them.


I have not seen this done in my area either. But I think if promoted right (and I know you know how to promote) it can be sold. Just another way to set your business apart from the rest. Now, i better not see any of my local competitors offering this service next year or I might have to send my goons out for a visit :)

I heard bad things about the lesco product too. I think they use a latex base paint. I am after a dye rather then a paint. I have read up on this a little and one golf superintendent recommended either Green Lawger or Green Graphic lawn paint. So now all I have to do is fine the best place to buy these two brands.

osc
12-28-2004, 05:33 PM
Find some Greenlawnger. That's what we use one golf courses.

Soupy
12-28-2004, 05:47 PM
Find some Greenlawnger. That's what we use one golf courses.

Can you give some opinions on this product.

out4now
12-28-2004, 06:09 PM
Are you going into stenciling sports fields too? What direction are you taking this? Just for residentials?

Envision
12-28-2004, 06:42 PM
I've used some to cover about 10 areas that a client had killed by using the wrong kind of weed killer in his yard. Let me search for the bottle in my shop and I'll get back to you.

It worked good, had to reapply it every couple of weeks. The hard part was getting the mix right to blend in with the existing grass. From a distance, you couldn't tell, and that was what they were most concerned with.

Tim.

Soupy
12-28-2004, 09:59 PM
Are you going into stenciling sports fields too? What direction are you taking this? Just for residential?

I'm wanting to use it for seasonal color of dormant grass. I will probably pick a couple of high profile lawns and give them a freebie (along with a yard sign) to promote the service. It will be done with a hand can, so there isn't much cost involved in trying to see were it goes.

As for the stenciling, I'm not sure about that. I was thinking I would offer it as a high priced novelty. I don't think I could be cost effective enough for a sports field.

out4now
12-28-2004, 10:16 PM
We looked into the paint machine to do the steciling and striping of the highschool football field and they didn't buy it. After I left they got a machine to just do the lines with. Could be a good business but schools would want you to donate it so not a money maker. We looked at dyes in stead of overseeding but when we worked it out it, wasn't going to save money in our situation. It's been awhile so I can't rember the exact cost of the paints and dyes but the machine they used to do the hash marks and endzone stuff was a Graco parking lot striper with a spray gun attached, Briggs engine and if I remeber correctly the cheif painter said it was around 3500 bucks that was quite some time ago. They used it to do a school mascot in front of the graduation stage one year, looked great. The sprayer for the dye that we looked at was a little trailer model and that was a couple grand too. It would be hard to get your money back out of it. Overseeding rye is a bigger money maker, scalp, seed, starter fert., throw mulch lots of labor(actaully very little if have the right tools) and then onto the $. You'd have to survey to see how much interest there is in the service before buying all the stuff. I tried looking back through some of my magazines for the name of the dye but I haven't found it yet. If I find it I'll PM it to you.

ed2hess
12-28-2004, 10:30 PM
We used the Lesco product and it was so-so....We overseed with rye grass in our area on commericial properties. Due to many factors sometimes you don't get good green coverage. We put the Lesco paint in a back pack sprayer and paint the holes. It just seems like I had to go over areas several times to get coverage. It wasn't bad however...just for small patches...5 x 5 ft areas. I don't want to get a $5000 sprayer Graco to do the job however. I think you would have a problem with overseeding up north...freeze knocks color out in south.

Soupy
12-28-2004, 10:34 PM
We looked into the paint machine to do the steciling and striping of the highschool football field and they didn't buy it. After I left they got a machine to just do the lines with. Could be a good business but schools would want you to donate it so not a money maker. We looked at dyes in stead of overseeding but when we worked it out it, wasn't going to save money in our situation. It's been awhile so I can't rember the exact cost of the paints and dyes but the machine they used to do the hash marks and endzone stuff was a Graco parking lot striper with a spray gun attached, Briggs engine and if I remeber correctly the cheif painter said it was around 3500 bucks that was quite some time ago. They used it to do a school mascot in front of the graduation stage one year, looked great. The sprayer for the dye that we looked at was a little trailer model and that was a couple grand too. It would be hard to get your money back out of it. Overseeding rye is a bigger money maker, scalp, seed, starter fert., throw mulch lots of labor(actaully very little if have the right tools) and then onto the $. You'd have to survey to see how much interest there is in the service before buying all the stuff. I tried looking back through some of my magazines for the name of the dye but I haven't found it yet. If I find it I'll PM it to you.

Yes, I know that it would not be cost effective to do sports fields. I don't even know if I would offer the stencil at all. But on a small scale everything I plan on doing can be done with hand cans or backpack sprayers. The cost to do 12K of the dormancy coloring would be around $40 and I would offer it for around $160. I am still trying to find the best place to buy the product but based on one place it is $40 and covers 12K. There isn't any real overhead cost to this, so if there is no work it's not a big deal.

Soupy
12-28-2004, 10:38 PM
We used the Lesco product and it was so-so....We overseed with rye grass in our area on commericial properties. Due to many factors sometimes you don't get good green coverage. We put the Lesco paint in a back pack sprayer and paint the holes. It just seems like I had to go over areas several times to get coverage. It wasn't bad however...just for small patches...5 x 5 ft areas. I don't want to get a $5000 sprayer Graco to do the job however. I think you would have a problem with overseeding up north...freeze knocks color out in south.

Was the Lesco product a paint (like I heard) or was it a dye?

Smithers
12-28-2004, 10:47 PM
out4now,

instead of PM soupy only, let us all know what the details. :cool: :cool:

ed2hess
12-28-2004, 10:59 PM
It is a turf paint....and the $40 gallon would NOT cover 12000sq.ft. I'll bet that the back pack sprayers don't have a fine enough nozzle on them to get good coverage. I have been thinking about doing curb painting and stripping in the winter...maybe I'lll get the machine so I can touch up our commericial lawns in addition. I am going over to parkinglotplanet.com and open a thread to see it any of those curb painting guys can help us.

Soupy
12-28-2004, 10:59 PM
out4now,

instead of PM soupy only, let us all know what the details. :cool: :cool:

Unless it is a miracle product. Then only let Soupy know about it :)

Soupy
12-28-2004, 11:02 PM
It is a turf paint....and the $40 gallon would NOT cover 12000sq.ft. I'll bet that the back pack sprayers don't have a fine enough nozzle on them to get good coverage. I have been thinking about doing curb painting and stripping in the winter...maybe I'lll get the machine so I can touch up our commericial lawns in addition. I am going over to parkinglotplanet.com and open a thread to see it any of those curb painting guys can help us.

That is why I don't want the paint. I want the dye. The sprayers should have no problem spraying a dye. The $40 dye I am talking about you mix like 1:15 ratio.

out4now
12-28-2004, 11:03 PM
That was what I was getting at at the end of my post. Doing it by hand takes a lot of time and coats, not easy to get good coverage. The upside down cans we used for touch ups took awhile to get consistent color. To do a large area they used the Graco to get uniformity. The Endzones took about 20 minutes with the Graco a piece to get them looking good enough that the color was really visable. Haven't used a BP sprayer to do it before be you might want to buy a gallon and try it to see how much it takes to get it uniform and how long. 12K square feet doesn't seem like much but we would go through a case of upside down just touching up the mascot emblem and it wasn't more than 112 sqaure feet. Area = pi * R^(2). took 2 guys about 15 minutes to do it, but we had to have define edges as well.

Garden Panzer
12-28-2004, 11:10 PM
Wouldn't it be easier to ROTOTILL the lawn under and just put in some layered plantings?
I mean, don't you think you'll look silly painting the lawn green? It just seems kinda something you shouldn't bother trying to do.....

example: rival LCO tells a shopper, ' That guy has to paint his lawns....'

BUT HEY, GO FOR IT!


:drinkup:

Soupy
12-28-2004, 11:14 PM
That was what I was getting at at the end of my post. Doing it by hand takes a lot of time and coats, not easy to get good coverage. The upside down cans we used for touch ups took awhile to get consistent color. To do a large area they used the Graco to get uniformity. The Endzones took about 20 minutes with the Graco a piece to get them looking good enough that the color was really visable. Haven't used a BP sprayer to do it before be you might want to buy a gallon and try it to see how much it takes to get it uniform and how long. 12K square feet doesn't seem like much but we would go through a case of upside down just touching up the mascot emblem and it wasn't more than 112 sqaure feet. Area = pi * R^(2). took 2 guys about 15 minutes to do it, but we had to have define edges as well.

I'm talking about using a die that comes in 1 gallon, 2.5 gallon or 5 gallon buckets. It mixes around 1 part die and 15 parts water. I would use a sprayer made for spraying deck stain that has the proper tips.

We used to own a softball complex and I know how the cans work for making lines. We also used lime and chalked the lines too. The lime was cheaper due to grass growing.

The stencils that I am talking about are used the same way. You use a hand sprayer and color it in. Like I said, I would only offer the stencil if the customer really wanted his team logo (on a smaller scale) painted in his front lawn. He would most likely want this during playoffs or something and would pay for it (whatever the cost). The whole stencil thing was just going to be a novelty option that would come at a cost and probably not sell.

My main plan is to color dormant turf.

SodKing
12-28-2004, 11:15 PM
I have "painted" several areas in lawns over the past few years. One was before a wedding and the homeowner wasn't happy with the natural color ("Couldn't it be greener?") another was at the edge of a driveway where the salt killed the grass, the home owner was having an important client to their house and wanted the yard to look more even in color. The last one I painted was my own golf green at my house, I didn't like the dormant color of the bentgrass.

BTW I use the Lesco Turf Paint product

out4now
12-28-2004, 11:19 PM
We are talking right past each other. I get it that you're just doing the dormant turf but what I was trying to figure out was how you were applying. Can't comment on the woodstaining aparatus, never used one. I was just trying to give you an idea of how long it takes with the upside cans becasue I thought that that was what you were using. It wouldn't really matter what color paint, it would take the same amount of time depending on the equipment. Still can't find the product I was looking for, Becker Underwood does have the Green Lawnger already mentioned but that wasn't the one we looked at specifically.

Soupy
12-28-2004, 11:23 PM
Wouldn't it be easier to ROTOTILL the lawn under and just put in some layered plantings?
I mean, don't you think you'll look silly painting the lawn green? It just seems kinda something you shouldn't bother trying to do.....

example: rival LCO tells a shopper, ' That guy has to paint his lawns....'

BUT HEY, GO FOR IT!


:drinkup:

Again, this is for warm season grass that goes dormant. The turf die would give it color during the winter. When you have several lawns on one street and they all have brown grass. I will come in and paint it with a natural turf color and make your neighbors envious.

My reputation isn't going to be tainted by my rivals. I will probably have some of their customers calling me wanting me to paint their brown grass green.

This is not a new concept. Golf courses around the world do it all the time. It is not expensive and looks natural unless you are standing on it. But still it looks better then brown grass.

Garden Panzer
12-28-2004, 11:27 PM
Why not just over seed with winter rye? If $40 for a gallon that won't do 12k....
I thought on warm season one did the following in mid fall or so...


spray growth regs on turf
scalp turf
seed with winter rye
watch grow


:drinkup:

Soupy
12-28-2004, 11:27 PM
Read these two articles:
http://www.sptimes.com/News/061500/TampaBay/The_great_lawn_coveru.shtml
http://www.gcsaa.org/gcm/2004/dec04/12turf.asp

Soupy
12-28-2004, 11:31 PM
Why not just over seed with winter rye? If $40 for a gallon that won't do 12k....
I thought on warm season one did the following in mid fall or so...


spray growth regs on turf
scalp turf
seed with winter rye
watch grow


:drinkup:

Because were I live the overseeding doesn't always work. Yes, 15 gallons of dye will cover 12,000 sq ft. The gallon is a concentrate!

We only overseed cool season turf.

out4now
12-28-2004, 11:34 PM
It was Grennzit by Cleary Chemical. Don't know if they still make it or not.

Soupy
12-28-2004, 11:48 PM
It was Grennzit by Cleary Chemical. Don't know if they still make it or not.

Cool, thanks. I will do a google search.

Soupy
12-29-2004, 12:01 AM
I did a search and had no results. I found the label to Green Lawger and it does between 4-12K per gallon. It said for dormant turf to mix one gallon with 7-9 gallons of water. Applied at 1-2 gallons per K. So it looks like for dormant color it will get 4-8K coverage. I'm hoping closer to 8K.

Edit: I forgot to add the link to the Green Lawnger label. http://www.beckerunderwood.com/labels/greenlawnger.html

The other stuff I was looking at said 12K coverage in the description, But I don't know what the dormant coverage is yet.


If anyone has more info. I would appreciate it.

Thanks,
Soupy

Garden Panzer
12-29-2004, 12:07 AM
Oh yea, soupy.. you are in that region that makes it abiy harder to grow turf... in fact thr head groundskeeper in seattle baseball, M's, used to reside and work in your town.

:drinkup:

out4now
12-29-2004, 12:08 AM
http://clearychemical.com/select_product.php?cat=50 for Cleary.

Jodi you can remove it if it conflicts with the sponsors.

Soupy
12-29-2004, 12:22 AM
http://clearychemical.com/select_product.php?cat=50 for Cleary.

Jodi you can remove it if it conflicts with the sponsors.

It looks like you would only get 3K per gallon out of that stuff. I wonder how much it cost and where to find it. I don't care if takes more as long as the cost is the same. EDIT: It is $124 for 2.5 Gal. That would be $15 per K. The Green lawnger would be around $6 per K

Here is a picture of what I want to achieve.

Soupy
12-29-2004, 12:32 AM
Ok, Product will cost $6K. What do you think a reasonable price would be per K apllying with a hand can? If this service would take off, then I might concider useing a Perma green or something. But for now it is the hand can.

I am thinking maybe $15-$20 per K. What do you guys think?

Smithers
12-29-2004, 12:46 AM
soupy, i am a little confused....you guys were talking about a few products, not just one.

Which one did you like, and which one are you going to go with at the end?

Is it costing you $6/1K feet? if that is the case, yes, i think 5-4 times mark up will be fine. That's how much i'd do.

remember that you might have to buy a special sprayer and clean the pump after each use.

is the one that OUT4NOW gave the best one? what happened to all the other ones in this thread? they are no good? :sleeping: :sleeping:

Soupy
12-29-2004, 12:58 AM
I think Green lawnger is the best option to start with. I'm just basing this on reviews. The article I posted earlier has a golf superintendent recommending it. I still need to get more info on this product http://www.missouriturfpaint.com/paint_gpptrfcl.html The product that Out4Now mentioned is almost 3 times as expensive per K.

The Green Lawnger should be roughly $6 per 1,000 sq ft. You think this service will go for $24-$30 per K? That would be $240-$300 for a 10K lawn. I'm thinking I could probably sell a 10K lawn for $200. That would be roughly $140 profit. I would be happy with a little less. Of course supply and demand will have to be factored once the phone starts to ring, or not ring :)

Soupy
12-30-2004, 03:10 AM
http://www.dmregister.com/opinion/stories/c5917686/22162544.html This is a morale booster for anyone thinking about giving this service a try.

JimLewis
12-30-2004, 03:57 AM
Edit: I forgot to add the link to the Green Lawnger label. http://www.beckerunderwood.com/labels/greenlawnger.html

That's what we use too - Green Lawnger. Great stuff, IMO!

Soupy
12-30-2004, 04:17 AM
That's what we use too - Green Lawnger. Great stuff, IMO!

Jim, If you don't mind me asking, How much do you charge for this service? You can PM if you don't want it to be public knowledge.

Thanks,
Soupy

JimLewis
12-30-2004, 03:22 PM
I don't use the Green Lawnger stuff all that often. So I don't have any set pricing.

One instance where we used it was right before a wedding. A customer of mine wanted me to "green up" their lawn in 4 days. I laughed. There was no fertilizer or even iron that would get the perfect lush green they wanted THAT fast. So I told them about the Green Lawnger stuff and they said to go ahead and do it. I just charged hourly plus materials for that job. Now, the lawn was already green. It wasn't dormant. It just wasn't quite as dark green as he wanted it. This stuff really did the trick. It looked amazing when we were done and he told me later that he got tons of compliments on his lawn during the wedding.

I have used it for a dormant lawn on a home where the renter didn't water the lawn during the summer and the lawn went dormant. It looked pretty good! It went from yellow to green in one day. The neighbors were scratching their heads wondering how that happened.

Otherwise, we usually use it to patch up lawns. For instance, if a dog has been urinating on a lawn and there are circles of yellow dead grass all over. We'll paint those areas with Green Lawnger and overseed the areas at the same time. Then, while the seed is coming in, at least the lawn still looks good during that time. Then I also get the customer some pills for their dog to take that nuetralizes the urine so that won't happen again.

Anyway, we have always charged just time and materials for using this stuff. We don't really get dorman lawns much around here. So that's not a normal use for this product here.

ed2hess
12-30-2004, 07:19 PM
That's what we use too - Green Lawnger. Great stuff, IMO!
Jim,
Is Missouri Turf Paint the only place to buy Green Lawnger? You have to buy 4 gallon at a time with them. Have you ever used Lesco Paint...Have you tried to paint small patches with back pack sprayer?

JimLewis
12-30-2004, 07:38 PM
I've never heard of that place. No, I buy it locally at a store in Tigard, Oregon called the Professional Turf Center. You can also get it at Horizon. It's sold all over. Just contact the manufacturer and ask them where a local supplier is. Just because you don't see it on shelves, doesn't mean that some of your local suppliers can't get it for you.

And it comes in other sizes too. I can buy 1 and 2.5 gallon jugs. I usually buy the 2.5 gal. and it lasts us a long time.

osc
12-30-2004, 07:54 PM
Wow this thread grew since the other day. I bought Green lawnger from a company called Turfgrass South in Northern Kentucky. They have a salesman that calls on us. Many golf course fert distributors carry this product.

I have no idea what to charge but like everthing else, as much as you can.

Smithers
12-30-2004, 08:16 PM
jim, how much area can you cover with the 2.5 gallons?

Also, how do you protect the sidewalks? do you put tarp on the edging?

Soupy
12-30-2004, 08:58 PM
jim, how much area can you cover with the 2.5 gallons?

Also, how do you protect the sidewalks? do you put tarp on the edging?

I have read that a good way to apply around sidewalks and edges is to carry a good size peice of cardboard and use it as a shield/guide.

I found this thread and "avery" (which seems to have experience with this product) said he gets around 5,000 sq. ft per gallon. He supplied a before and after picture. Check it out We can not confuse effeincy of mowing with effiency of profit.

Soupy
12-30-2004, 09:03 PM
Jim,
Is Missouri Turf Paint the only place to buy Green Lawnger? You have to buy 4 gallon at a time with them. Have you ever used Lesco Paint...Have you tried to paint small patches with back pack sprayer?

That link I posted is a different product (it could be the same but it is labeled different). I emailed them for info on it. I have found a place on-line that sells Green Lawnger for $40 per gallon. If you beg I will give you the link :p Just kidding here it is http://www.forestry-suppliers.com/product_pages/view_catalog_page.asp?id=7013 They are closed until Jan 3rd. I plan on ordering and trying it soon.

I forgot to mention that Shipping listed in the checkout is $9, but I have not confirmed that it will not change. They have a note that shipping could change do to restriction on some products.

Soupy
12-30-2004, 09:52 PM
I have read that a good way to apply around sidewalks and edges is to carry a good size peice of cardboard and use it as a shield/guide.

I found this thread and "avery" (which seems to have experience with this product) said he gets around 5,000 sq. ft per gallon. He supplied a before and after picture. Check it out We can not confuse effeincy of mowing with effiency of profit.

Wow! I don't know how that last sentance got there. I posted that in another thread. Anyway the link about Green Lawnger that was suppose to be in it's place is http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=58109&highlight=green+lawnger

Smithers
12-30-2004, 10:29 PM
thanks soupy. i was just going to ask you for the avery thread.

you are the man!!

tracyalan
08-12-2009, 02:42 PM
I have used a few different lawn paints that are on the market. Depending on the area and how you mix the products, you need the one that works best in your area. I have used "Green Lawnger" and I like it. you can order it from "www.gemplers.com" and see what you do think of it. also here are some more products and places to order. EZ Green Grass Paint this works well too and can be ordered as a mixed or Concentrate.
"www.ezgreengrasspaint.com" I have also used and really like TIAB = Turf In A Bottle "www.bestgrasspaint.com" you can control the color really well with this and get the result that you are looking for. There are alot of others out there, I have used a few others but these are the 3 that I use on a normal basis. "www.tlyardworks.com"
Tracy

frotis
08-12-2009, 03:24 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAnDNt9nT3E

topsites
10-14-2009, 12:57 PM
Personally speaking I wouldn't be fooling with this stuff,
I'd rather see yellow Zoysia than a dead lawn come spring...

skennedy
12-09-2009, 01:09 PM
I didn't go through all the threads, but most of the golf course supers I spoke to and work with reccomend the Pioneer Paint product "Match Play" and the Ultra Dwarf + is the most popular to color/paint/dye bermuda. They have blends for all types of grass that go dormant. We are just adding this to our business model and are searching for a good supplier that maybe isn't so expensive. Please advise if this thread is not dead!

tracyalan
12-09-2009, 06:56 PM
Please check out: www.speclawn.com Talk with Ben. He can provide you with any information that you may need.
Also check out: www.bestgrasspaint.com Talk with Jeremy.
These are the two best lines out there and between them both, you can find what you need and a great price.

skennedy
12-10-2009, 10:22 AM
Thanks Tracy! I have checked out the speclawn site and will take your advice for the other supplier as well. Do you use either?

Thanks again for your ideas!

tracyalan
12-10-2009, 10:43 AM
I use them both and have had great results.
I have also used: Green Lawnger, Grass B Green, Salarogen & a couple of other smaller brands. I was a die hard user of Green Lawnger and really liked it till I tried what Ben & Jeremy had. Now that is all that I use and have not had any problems. I spray alot of yards to take care of "doggie spots" and can mix to match any lawn with great results.

skennedy
12-10-2009, 10:54 AM
Cool. The Becker Underwood product is good. We tested it and like the results, but we got our supplier for our mulch and pine straw colorant to help us blend a propietary green for bermuda grass here in the south east. Testing that one out right now as we speak. Great to get your opinions since you have used everything on the market.

How do you custom blend to match? Just the amount of colorant/dye you dilute?

Thanks so much for your expertise.

tracyalan
12-10-2009, 11:00 AM
Here (Colorado) most have K. Blue & Fescue, but I have to match some wierd blends at times. The more you do this the better you will get with looking at the grass and then mixing, but I also have broken it down to a small batch amounts that I can blen to what I need, then make a larger batch and spray what I need to.
www.bestgrasspaint.com "Jeremy" they have great pine straw and mulch dyes. I have used them and love the results. I never would have thought that the results would be as good as they were, but I saw for myself and now offer this service as well.

skennedy
12-10-2009, 11:07 AM
The mulch and pine straw is our core biz. We spent a long time getting the a good color for the pine straw. We have a pretty good match for the long leaf lob lolly pine needle and are starting a retail sales program with a local Garden/Nursery center. They have asked us about the green and this is how it led me down this path.

If you don't mind I may pick your brain later to get your thoughts and send you some pictures of our process and see where we can do better.

Thanks again. I know I say that alot, but really mean it. This has already been a tremendous help.

tracyalan
12-10-2009, 11:13 AM
Feel free, you can PM me if you want or just email me directly. I would be willing to provide you with any information that i know.