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toxic man
01-02-2005, 01:05 AM
I have read so much about the use of liquid iron and how green it makes the grass. Are there any substitiutions for the liquid iron for the desired effect? What component of granular iron is most like the ones in a liquid form? Is there any substitute for a liquid iron feeding? I would really like my lawns to stand out in a BIG way, and have the best lawns as possible.

My program is all granular with weed control performed by liquid.

As always

Thank you in advance!

Lou,
Weed Solutions

ThreeWide
01-02-2005, 08:40 AM
Sounds as if you are asking how to apply iron in your program if most of your applications are granular.

A number of Lesco granular fertilizers have a percentage of Iron in the blend, some as much as 10%. You might also work with your supplier to get a custom blend that includes a good portion of Iron. This is would be the easiest way to incorporate Iron in your program.

To get the best results, the liquid form is more effective. Cheleated Iron or Ferrous Sulfate will often produce visible results 24 hours after application.

But since your programs are granular, you will be adding extra labor and cost by spraying Iron during the same stop. Unless you switch to all liquid programs, consider making liquid iron apps an additional service that your higher end clients would be willing to pay for.

Ric
01-02-2005, 11:48 AM
Toxic man

Yes there is a granule that gives the same if not better response than Liquid Iron. IRONITE, however it does take a little longer to show response, it last much longer. Now Cost might be a factor you may want to consider.

toxic man
01-02-2005, 04:55 PM
Hey guys thanks for the tips. Now, can you get a chelated iron in a granular form. I have done a search for pricing on ironite and cannot find one? The label says 5lb/k how long will this last? And what is milogranite?

Thanks
lou

Ric
01-02-2005, 06:24 PM
what is milogranite?

Lou

Surely you Jest. What is Milorganite? It is good old Pollock Poop straight from the City famous for polish immigrates and Beer. You can read all about in in the Tree Hugger forum just below this one. They love Poop of all kinds in that Forum.

Neal Wolbert
01-02-2005, 10:46 PM
Ric, Does Ironite last longer than 3 weeks? I don't mean from the date of application but from the date of green up. Quality chelated liquid micronutrient products can easily deliver 21 -28 days greening during the growing season, much longer in the winter and responses are usually visible within a few minutes, not hours. Product cost...$.50-$1.00/1000 sq. ft. depending on rate. If you can spray weeds you can spray micros. Neal

ThreeWide
01-03-2005, 09:24 AM
I've been through this drill once before, and had difficulty finding Ironite through anyone other than retail channels. In fact, Home Depot was the only supplier anywhere in my area.

Lesco sells a granular product they call Iron Plus, but the cost is $1.90 per 1,000 sq ft. You can see why the liquid products are much better from a cost perspective.

Also take this for what it's worth....this is just something I was told.....

Another local LCO fert specialist who has a lot more experience than I recently said one of his clients had been using Ironite regularly. He stated that the Ironite created problems because it added too much boron into the soil. For that reason, he is not suggesting Ironite.

Ric
01-03-2005, 09:25 AM
Neal

Every area is going to have a different Response time and a different residual time. Depends on the Metabolism of the turf and the CEC of the soil,Etc. It also depends on the turf species. Liquid Iron will turn Bahia dark green as you spray it, St Augustine doesn't response as quick or as dark a green. Our sandy soils won't last as long as clay, but we seem to get more than 60 days of dark green out of Ironite. However it is not cheap per thousand cost.

Ric
01-03-2005, 10:09 AM
PS.

On turf Slow Release Granules are a better way to apply Fertilizer and preventive pesticides. Slower response time but longer residual. The only need for Liquids are post emerge herbicides and acute pest control as in active insects or fungus. Most lawn mowing-pesticide operations really have no need for a large spray tank other than to look the part. A small 25 gallon spot sprayer is all that is needed and then only if you are treating large areas. Back packs can do most spot treatment jobs.

Now Fungicide is the one exception that really is easier to apply with a large pump that Agitates the tank. Granule do not work fast enough, in fact they generally can't be up taken by the diseased plant. However Systemic Liquids can get in foliar and start the cure. If you don't have a large pump and wish not to buy one, Then Cleary's 3336 fungicide can be used even in a back pack.

Shrubs and Trees are a different story and require more spray pesticides than turf. However granular Merit is now labeled for ornamentals and can make up for a lot of spraying. You can in fact get away with a hose end sprayer and Insecticidal soap and Hort oil in most cases.

Now all this no spray talk is coming from a guy that uses Cab over spray trucks with PTO driven Hydra cell pumps with multiply tanks and hose reels. The advantage in spray is production, yet Granules can be spread faster. However spray tanks can mix a cocktail and apply multiply products at the same time. However you have to have a large volume to pay the difference between a $ 350 spreader and $ 60,000 spray truck.

Cost of Material: Yes granules are more expensive in general and especially Combined products. However once again look at the Equipment costs.

Ric
01-03-2005, 10:23 AM
I've been through this drill once before, and had difficulty finding Ironite through anyone other than retail channels. In fact, Home Depot was the only supplier anywhere in my area.

Lesco sells a granular product they call Iron Plus, but the cost is $1.90 per 1,000 sq ft. You can see why the liquid products are much better from a cost perspective.

Also take this for what it's worth....this is just something I was told.....

Another local LCO fert specialist who has a lot more experience than I recently said one of his clients had been using Ironite regularly. He stated that the Ironite created problems because it added too much boron into the soil. For that reason, he is not suggesting Ironite.


Turf Unlimited

I missed you post the first time around, maybe I was typing.

Yes what works for you might not work for me and Vice-a verse-a. We are all in different Cold hardness zones and have different soil. We each must find out what works for us, at a cost we can make a profit. Can we charge more and use more expensive products and still compete??? The trick is not making the grass grow dark green. It is doing it at a profit.

BTW I have a wholesale source for Ironite. However it is still expensive per thousand compared to $ .20 per thousand for liquid iron.

lawnguy26
08-04-2005, 11:35 PM
PS.

On turf Slow Release Granules are a better way to apply Fertilizer and preventive pesticides. Slower response time but longer residual. The only need for Liquids are post emerge herbicides and acute pest control as in active insects or fungus.

One variable that contributes to insect resistance is insecticides being applied at small, or inadequate, doses.

Companies that have used granular Talstar over several years are now having chinchbug resistance to Talstar applications. Including liquid apps. applied at the highest rate.

Insecticides in granular, water-soluble forms release small amounts of AI with light, infrequent waterings thus contributing to resistance.

As far as a quick, long term green-up. Apply a good slow release, complete fertilizer, with 3% or more Iron; a certain percentage being chelated, with a liquid app. of Iron and Manganese Sulfate. You could even add a little sulfur to make the Fe more readily available for the plant. I can apply a liquid Iron and Manganese Sulfate application for $0.19/1000 and get a great green-up for mid-summer applications.

Ric
08-05-2005, 12:23 AM
26

you make a good case for rotating insecticide types. Unfortunately we are losing more organo Phosphates each day to improper use.

GREENITUP
08-05-2005, 07:07 AM
Toxic - One more small issue to ponder if you take the liquid iron road - I don't know how many sq/ft you are looking to treat, but iron is hell on the internal moving parts of any pump. It greens up great, but be prepared to rebuild your pump if you do a lot of spraying. Good luck.

Behzad Khosropanah
03-25-2007, 02:50 AM
I am intending to manufacture liquid iron chelate I have tested on lawn the responce was excelent ,always use chelated iron as other source are not available readily to the turfs.
bary

Behzad Khosropanah
03-25-2007, 07:10 AM
I have read so much about the use of liquid iron and how green it makes the grass. Are there any substitiutions for the liquid iron for the desired effect? What component of granular iron is most like the ones in a liquid form? Is there any substitute for a liquid iron feeding? I would really like my lawns to stand out in a BIG way, and have the best lawns as possible.

My program is all granular with weed control performed by liquid.

As always

Thank you in advance!

Lou,
Weed Solutions

You may use liquid chelate iron ,do it once you will see the result,always use concentrated one i.e.400 grams solid/one liter chelated iron use one ml per one liter of water apply early morning or evening It should give you 6 ppm concentration.then it gives a good result.
wish you all the best
Dr.behzad khosropanah

Behzad Khosropanah
03-25-2007, 07:19 AM
I am searching for an angle investor for an excellent business i.e.manufacturing the chelated micronutrient fertilizers in Canada .Investors welcome.
Best regards
Dr.Behzad khosropanah

xpnd
03-25-2007, 12:42 PM
The question you should be asking yourself is, "What sales techniques can I employ to have customers pay me to make this application rather than what product should I give away to my customers which will result in a decrease to my profit margin?"

The best business definition of quality which you will not find in any dictionary is very simple. Meet but do not exceed your customers expectations. Adopting this definition requires just one thing. Setting your pride aside!!. A customer asks me to mow his weed infested sickly yellow lawn every week. He does not want to pay for weed control/fert services nor does he have the expectation that I will give these services away. He is happy with the price, we are dependable and he pays on time. What do I care how his lawn looks to me or his neighbors? I get my money and he is happy. Everyone wins.

If the majority of your customers are fat and happy with their lawns and your phone is still ringing, why are you considering increasing your operations cost without reimbursement? I have a lot of pride, but pride doesn't pay the bills.

If there are a few customers that want a better looking lawn, take the time to talk to them. Explain what they want is not possible with traditional lawn care but if they would like to be part of your advanced turf management program for a moderate additional cost to the traditional program, you could take care of their higher expectations and give them a yard that they and their neighbors will drool over.

Offer to do a demo on their FRONT yard not the back. Only do half of the front. When you create a treatment line where one side develops that rich dark green color and the other half looks sickly yellow in comparison, for no other reason than to avoid questions from their neighbors, they will pay you to do the entire lawn.

Now you have your hook. When anyone asks you about the quality of that lawn you can simply say, "Oh, they're on my advanced turf management plan. It costs a bit more but I think it is worth it." Any one that asks the home owners will get a similar answer of, "I pay extra, but it is worth it." You have just received independent validation of your services and the new client is ready to pay for what you were initially thinking about giving away for free. That's how it should work.

My advice is to spend your energy and time thinking of ways to improve the turf at the customer's expense not at yours.

Also use liquid. generally it is cheaper, more inclusive of trace minerals and elements and provides the shock and awe of almost overnight results. It also does not last as long as some of the granular products but more trips may translate to more work but also more money. You need to be careful around the houses and concrete with liquid but with granular you need to blow off all the concrete. I prefer liquid.

Neal Wolbert
03-25-2007, 02:46 PM
xpnd,
I think we should start a thread asking liquid applicators to weigh in on info just like you shared. Your approach is sound and appears to not exclude anyone who is in need of a pro. I would differ on one point however, that being liquids don't last as long as dry. That should be a good platform to start an interesting discussion. Your thoughts?
Neal

Duekster
03-25-2007, 03:06 PM
The question you should be asking yourself is, "What sales techniques can I employ to have customers pay me to make this application rather than what product should I give away to my customers which will result in a decrease to my profit margin?"

The best business definition of quality which you will not find in any dictionary is very simple. Meet but do not exceed your customers expectations. Adopting this definition requires just one thing. Setting your pride aside!!. A customer asks me to mow his weed infested sickly yellow lawn every week. He does not want to pay for weed control/fert services nor does he have the expectation that I will give these services away. He is happy with the price, we are dependable and he pays on time. What do I care how his lawn looks to me or his neighbors? I get my money and he is happy. Everyone wins.

If the majority of your customers are fat and happy with their lawns and your phone is still ringing, why are you considering increasing your operations cost without reimbursement? I have a lot of pride, but pride doesn't pay the bills.

If there are a few customers that want a better looking lawn, take the time to talk to them. Explain what they want is not possible with traditional lawn care but if they would like to be part of your advanced turf management program for a moderate additional cost to the traditional program, you could take care of their higher expectations and give them a yard that they and their neighbors will drool over.

Offer to do a demo on their FRONT yard not the back. Only do half of the front. When you create a treatment line where one side develops that rich dark green color and the other half looks sickly yellow in comparison, for no other reason than to avoid questions from their neighbors, they will pay you to do the entire lawn.

Now you have your hook. When anyone asks you about the quality of that lawn you can simply say, "Oh, they're on my advanced turf management plan. It costs a bit more but I think it is worth it." Any one that asks the home owners will get a similar answer of, "I pay extra, but it is worth it." You have just received independent validation of your services and the new client is ready to pay for what you were initially thinking about giving away for free. That's how it should work.

My advice is to spend your energy and time thinking of ways to improve the turf at the customer's expense not at yours.

Also use liquid. generally it is cheaper, more inclusive of trace minerals and elements and provides the shock and awe of almost overnight results. It also does not last as long as some of the granular products but more trips may translate to more work but also more money. You need to be careful around the houses and concrete with liquid but with granular you need to blow off all the concrete. I prefer liquid.


Good points all of them.

xpnd
03-25-2007, 03:19 PM
xpnd,
I think we should start a thread asking liquid applicators to weigh in on info just like you shared. Your approach is sound and appears to not exclude anyone who is in need of a pro. I would differ on one point however, that being liquids don't last as long as dry. That should be a good platform to start an interesting discussion. Your thoughts?
Neal

Liquid versus granular. That is a bottomless pit of emotional discussion. I prefer liquid because I mix my own "soup" of not only majors, but minors and micros as I find suppliers for them. I no longer use the 2.5 gallon premix product.

Weather you go liquid or granular largely is dependent on your soil type. Here in TX where I am, I consider a granualr app to be largely ineffective due to the high reactivity of our soil. We have everything the plants need in our soil but it is unavailable. By making foliar apps I exclude the soil and its cation/ion exchange and get it directly to the plant so it can be used and not tied up in the soil.

Different strokes for different folks.

Duekster
03-25-2007, 03:28 PM
Liquid versus granular. That is a bottomless pit of emotional discussion. I prefer liquid because I mix my own "soup" of not only majors, but minors and micros as I find suppliers for them. I no longer use the 2.5 gallon premix product.

Weather you go liquid or granular largely is dependent on your soil type. Here in TX where I am, I consider a granualr app to be largely ineffective due to the high reactivity of our soil. We have everything the plants need in our soil but it is unavailable. By making foliar apps I exclude the soil and its cation/ion exchange and get it directly to the plant so it can be used and not tied up in the soil.

Different strokes for different folks.

I like to spray because the product is spread more uniform. I have considered adding a granular slow release fertilization into the program around June/July to slide through August.