PDA

View Full Version : Chevy to a Ford


sgoalie23
01-02-2005, 02:20 PM
I am going to be commuting to Fairfield University next year. Right now i have a 1999 Chevy Silverado 2500 6.0L V8. I am getting about 10-12 mpg. I am looking to buy a used F-350 7.3 diesel between 1999 and 2003. Currently I put on about 30,000 miles a year. Do you think i should make the switch or just tough out the horrific gas mileage. Also I am going to be purchasing a 18 or 20 foot trailer. I will also be putting a plow on the ford, since i already have one on the chevy. Will the extra torque, power, and better gas mileage justify the cost of a F-350. Also do you have any suggestions or comments as to what trailer is good for hauling two ZTR's and one walkbehind?

Smalltimer1
01-02-2005, 02:24 PM
If you do get the 99-03 F-250/F-350, then make sure you put something like a Banks Transcommand in it. That will help the transmission shift better and overall extend its life. I myself am going through almost the same thing with my F-250. It only gets 10mpg with the 7.5L V8 and I've got my eyes set on a F-250 6-Liter Power Stroke with the Torqshift auto.

dcondon
01-02-2005, 03:34 PM
Ford all the way!!!!!!!!!!! I would go with the F-250 6-Liter Power Stroke. Especially if your going to be pulling a trailer. :waving:

UNISCAPER
01-02-2005, 07:27 PM
1999-2003 Fords posess a charming and delightful transmission that is lucky if it gets 70,000 miles without rebuilding. That transmission does not have a pump that circulates oil when it is running in reverse, and if you are backing up a hill under load, you are going to blow your tranny every time. The tranny is the weakest link on the truck.

If you are looking to trade brands because of fuel savings, I do not know of one person getting over 13 with an F-250 and a 366 cubic inch diesel in it. I have two freinds with 04 and 05 F-350's, both with over 10,000 miles, and niether one of them gets past 13MPG on a good day running with the wind, empty. Do not install any chip or other means of power boosting technolgy if it is under factory warrantee. Ford has cracked down severely on trucks that have been tweeked and has begun rejecting warrantee claims on those that were modified. If you are just changing brands because you like a Ford over a Chevy, you won't be disappointed. If all you are doing it for is fuel milage, you are in for a large dissapointment and you are going to spend alot of money to accomplish nothing.

On the other hand, our Chevy Duramax/Allison is getting 14.5 around town, pulling trailers or empty, and the best I ever got was 18.2 MPG on the highway. Try that with any other 1 ton truck.

John P.
01-02-2005, 09:31 PM
Are you going to sell the cehvy if so .............lets talk :cool2:

Gilla Gorilla
01-02-2005, 09:43 PM
If you do go with the Ford I would recommend that you get one with the 3:73 gears instead of the 4:10's that I have in my dually. The best mileage to date is 12.5 mpg and I am running a power tuner, 4 inch exhaust and cold air induction.
I did get between 1 to 2 mpg better with these mods though but with the 4:10's at 65mph I am running 2000rpm and around 2200 to 2300 at around 70 mph.

Good luck and if you are looking for power then you have chosen the correct brand. FORD!!!

Bill Davis
01-02-2005, 09:46 PM
I have never heard of the entire transmission having to be replaced or rebuilt at 70,000. I have a 99 Ford diesel with 162,000 with no problems and I have an 01 1 ton with 73,000 and no problems. I do like the Chevys though. The only reason I would not get one is because I dont particularly care for the interior. It just feels to much like a car to me. That isnt saying its not a good truck. I have many friends that love their Chevys but I will stick to ford for the simple reason that it hasnt left me stranded yet.

Bill Davis
01-02-2005, 09:51 PM
Gilla, Is the tuner you have just a chip or is it an actual tuner?
I spent the extra money this year and got rid of my chip and got the bully dog box that goes on your dash. It is especially nice on the interstate when I am running empty. I to have the cold air and have been very happy with it except that I have to clean it every month. I guess that means it's working though :)

UNISCAPER
01-02-2005, 11:24 PM
You must be hanging in the wrong places...We have gone through a dozen ford trannies, and when our soon to be sold F-450 was in for a complete rebuild at 30,000 miles, the Ford dealer had 18 trannies go bad in one week, all on 04 and 05 trucks.

PLM-1
01-03-2005, 12:01 AM
14.5 in the duramax? A buddy of mine gets in the 20s empty and about 15 towing...Never seen a ford do that!

Smalltimer1
01-03-2005, 12:23 AM
The 6-Liter I drove got 22mpg empty, and I drove it for 300 miles on a combination of stop and go and open road. Some people have had great luck with Ford transmissions, some have not. Some like to blow their bad times out of proportion. Never heard of a tranny going at 30,000 myself, other than Dodges which is normal for them. Ford E40D/4R100's usually run to about 100-120,000 normally when properly maintained. If anyone gets any less from them, then they are beating up on them.

Don't see why people think the Allison is the end all, its not. They were talking about that on Trucks TV and did a Allison rebuild today on there saying they were troublesome when under load and needed help to keep up with the motor.

Bill Davis
01-03-2005, 12:24 AM
Well, maybe the trannies are not as good in the newer trucks. I dont have an explanation for that. Im just saying that I have had zero trouble in more than one truck. I just dont think its fair to say that at 30,000 miles you will lose your tranny. I dont think Fords would be the best selling truck if they were always blowing the trannies in the first year.

UNISCAPER
01-03-2005, 11:23 AM
Our region is filled with 5,6&7° grades and lots of hills. That is about what anyone gets. I have never heard anyone in a Duramax getting over 18. Also, mine is a 3500, just a tad heavier than a 2500HD.

grass_cuttin_fool
01-03-2005, 01:08 PM
I cant comment on the trucks but far as the trailer goes, each mower takes about 6 foot of space so I would be in search of an 18- 20 foot trailer

Gilla Gorilla
01-03-2005, 11:28 PM
Hey there Bill, I go the Diablo Sport Predator tuner that has four settings. You just plug it up to the DLC when you want to change the tunes. I usually run it in the 60 hp mode when towing the mowers but since im not cutting now it stays in the 85 hp mode and man is that thing fun to drive. Nothing like flooring a 8,000 pound vehicle and getting the rear tires to spin some without having to power brake it. LOL :D

I would like to see the Bully Dog and the Edge Juice in action I like how the Edge Juice can be adjusted when driving down the road with the push of a button.

Bill Davis
01-04-2005, 12:22 AM
The Bully Dog equipment is nice. The cold air induction I have is actually mfg. by Street Performance and Acessories. Like I said it works great but it does take a lot of cleaning.

Gravel Rat
01-04-2005, 01:53 AM
Keep the chevy and buy yourself a small commuter car it will be cheaper in the long run. A P/U truck will never get good mileage as a small car especially a diesel VW. I really don't think you will gain much going with a Ford PSD especially if you are looking at getting better fuel mileage.

My preference is Ford if I was going to be doing nothing but commuting I would even consider getting a used Ford Ranger. I commute to work in my 89 F-450 it gets about 11mpg I don't commute every day but when I do its usually 62kms (38.5 miles) round trip. I thought about buying a small beater car but that is extra insurance but the expense of buying the vehical.

UNISCAPER
01-04-2005, 11:43 AM
Gilla:

Is that Diablo in a Ford or Chevy? Because if it is in a Ford, and you scatter a tranny, best be saving your pennies.

Bill D. Transmission nuber 2 went yesterday backing up in the rain. First one went 29,000 miles, this one went at 33,000. But ask all the die hard Ford brand truck owners. There is nothing wrong with thier product.

The service manager one again said, "We should have made a contract with Allison like we did with the class 5 and 6 trucks."

As far as Small timer claiming 22MPG, I would ask how those trucks are being used. Is it flat where you are? Are they pulling loads up mountain grades? I have 6 friends who own new Fords. Not one has ever passed the high 13MPG mark. Not one. My friend who just got an 05 F-350 pulls a 13,000 lb toy box out to the dessert. He gets 7MPG while under load. When I am loaded with the 3500 Chevy, pulling a 12,000 trailer with Cat and implements I'm still showing 11.

Accounts here are not comparing to accounts of people I se and talk to every day. So, it must be the terrain right?

Bill Davis
01-04-2005, 12:54 PM
uniscaper: exactly which truck do you own? Im just curious to see what year it is?

Smalltimer1
01-04-2005, 03:58 PM
As far as Small timer claiming 22MPG, I would ask how those trucks are being used. Is it flat where you are? Are they pulling loads up mountain grades? I have 6 friends who own new Fords. Not one has ever passed the high 13MPG mark. Not one. My friend who just got an 05 F-350 pulls a 13,000 lb toy box out to the dessert. He gets 7MPG while under load. When I am loaded with the 3500 Chevy, pulling a 12,000 trailer with Cat and implements I'm still showing 11.

Accounts here are not comparing to accounts of people I se and talk to every day. So, it must be the terrain right?

Where I live is right at the fall line, after a certain point, all water goes to the Atlantic Ocean, west of that line it goes to the Mississippi River. There is a relatively big change in elevation, on the eastern side it is roughly 250 ft. above sea level, and here it is around 425 ft. I drive across it almost daily both ways. That truck was a F-250 XL 6-Liter Regular Cab Longbed 4x2 3.73 axle. It was empty mind you, but when I did have my trailer on it, it was only about 2 or 3,000 lbs. and that really didn't make any difference. It maybe dropped to 18 or so with that. Most of the folks I know that tow regularly with a 6-Liter get about 11-14 mpg towing 18-22 empty (on SRW trucks) 17-19 DRW. The ones with Duramax's only get about 8-10 loaded 15-17 empty this info is from a good friend of mine in construction work.

Of course you are in Ca. where they have special mix diesel fuel for emissions purposes. It may be a regional fuel quality difference causing that kind of mileage.

sgoalie23
01-04-2005, 04:09 PM
Another question. What different brands of open trailers are there besides big tex.

j fisher
01-04-2005, 09:49 PM
18 mpg with a Duromax? I must have a lemon. 2001 2500 6.6 Duromax. I'm only getting around 13 mpg. Of course thats on the job, pulling equipment trailer in stop and go city traffic. Still it's better than the 9 mpg I get in my 97 F250 5.8 gas.

UNISCAPER
01-04-2005, 11:26 PM
Small Timer and Bill:

First, Smalltimer, thats is what I am trying to get to the bottom of. Deisel fuel to my knowledge is not different than other states, but, the hills and grades are killing us. We typically pull 6° grades that last for a minimum of 3/4 of a mile to over 3 miles.

Bill:

I have had a '78 F-350, '94 F-350 with 444 cubic inch diesel. E4OD went through 3 trannies 43,000 miles, traded truck for GMC K2500 that went 146,000 before the first tranny went after 4 plow seasons. That truck was when we were in the midwest. '91 Superduty F-450 E4OD, 5 trannies, 73,000 miles. 2002 F-450 superduty. First tranny went at 29,000, the second at 32-33,000 miles. All of our trucks have a large cooler the size of the radiator and oil is changed as per the HD service schedule.

This does not include the questions I have asked the service manager of the Ford dealer we buy from. 18 TS trannies in one week. Another dealership, 5 trannies in one week. Ford is not honoring warrantees where the trucks have a chip installed. This in my opinion tells me thier tranny is not built heavy enough to accept the torque thier engine puts out. Also, I have many friends and peers who are contractors. We usually get together at Cruise Nights, where we talk shop slam down a few beers, and basically see what the other thinks about things like, TRUCKS. I get my date from them. I have no truck preference. Personally, I like the Ford F-450-550 better than the GM 4500-5500, but I am sick and tired of Ford not being able to make truck that will do what I need it to do. After this year, we will have 2 4500 Chevies,
Duramax Allison equipped, our peterbuilt 335 with 450HP Cat and 13 speed Fuller, a Mack Granite with a 450HP and an 8 speed and another Mack Granite single axle 33,000 GVW with a 475 HP and an 8 speed comming. The heavy trucks are all roll off bodies.

Part of this problem may be my fault, which is why we are steppinjg up our fleet weights. But, it is completely unacceptable for Ford to install a transmission that clearly belongs in a Bronco into a 2 ton truck. It was a bad decision, and a worthless transmission that has cost us valuable production hours. What cracks me up is all the guys tooting thier horns about milage, about how great thier trannies are, and I can't get one tranny to last 50,000 miles. but hey its a Ford thier great right? Loose thier tranny and they got a great truck, at least in my book

Our entire fleet is going to GM because Ford does not perform for what we do.

Smalltimer1
01-05-2005, 12:30 AM
Small Timer and Bill:

First, Smalltimer, thats is what I am trying to get to the bottom of. Deisel fuel to my knowledge is not different than other states, but, the hills and grades are killing us. We typically pull 6° grades that last for a minimum of 3/4 of a mile to over 3 miles.

Bill:

I have had a '78 F-350, '94 F-350 with 444 cubic inch diesel. E4OD went through 3 trannies 43,000 miles, traded truck for GMC K2500 that went 146,000 before the first tranny went after 4 plow seasons. That truck was when we were in the midwest. '91 Superduty F-450 E4OD, 5 trannies, 73,000 miles. 2002 F-450 superduty. First tranny went at 29,000, the second at 32-33,000 miles. All of our trucks have a large cooler the size of the radiator and oil is changed as per the HD service schedule.

This does not include the questions I have asked the service manager of the Ford dealer we buy from. 18 TS trannies in one week. Another dealership, 5 trannies in one week. Ford is not honoring warrantees where the trucks have a chip installed. This in my opinion tells me thier tranny is not built heavy enough to accept the torque thier engine puts out. Also, I have many friends and peers who are contractors. We usually get together at Cruise Nights, where we talk shop slam down a few beers, and basically see what the other thinks about things like, TRUCKS. I get my date from them. I have no truck preference. Personally, I like the Ford F-450-550 better than the GM 4500-5500, but I am sick and tired of Ford not being able to make truck that will do what I need it to do. After this year, we will have 2 4500 Chevies,
Duramax Allison equipped, our peterbuilt 335 with 450HP Cat and 13 speed Fuller, a Mack Granite with a 450HP and an 8 speed and another Mack Granite single axle 33,000 GVW with a 475 HP and an 8 speed comming. The heavy trucks are all roll off bodies.

Part of this problem may be my fault, which is why we are steppinjg up our fleet weights. But, it is completely unacceptable for Ford to install a transmission that clearly belongs in a Bronco into a 2 ton truck. It was a bad decision, and a worthless transmission that has cost us valuable production hours. What cracks me up is all the guys tooting thier horns about milage, about how great thier trannies are, and I can't get one tranny to last 50,000 miles. but hey its a Ford thier great right? Loose thier tranny and they got a great truck, at least in my book

Our entire fleet is going to GM because Ford does not perform for what we do.

Your reasons are the same why we are dumping GM's. Lost another injection pump on the Chevy farm truck yesterday, 6th at 135,000 miles, just got out of the shop with a fresh 700R4 as well (#4). The truck's a money pit, farm can't operate on Chevy power no more, can't trust them for nothing.

By the way California does have a special winter blend diesel fuel, hear about how it kills mileage from the RV crowd who travel out your way.

Gilla Gorilla
01-05-2005, 10:04 AM
Hey Uniscaper I am just turning 70k on my 2002 F350 7.3 4X4 CC DRW
and the tranny is holding up great. I actually love how the Diablo had the three different shift options when I install a tune into the pcm. As far as not getting warrantied by Ford ( IF ) the tranny goes because I had it programmed, that is false.
When I put this tuned program into my pcm the Diablo stores the factory tune so it can be reinstalled if I have to take it back to the dealer for a EEC or tranny problem. The tuners are nothing like a chip that gets plugged into the pcm and leaves a P0603 pcm tampered with code. When I reinstall the factory tune it does not leave that code when the WDS at the ford dealer is hooked up to pull the fault codes out with.

Besides I worked at this Ford dealership for over 10 years and am still great friends with three of the diesel techs between both location of the dealership.
I guess membership does have its privileges. LOL

And about these dealers telling you that they have had 18 TS trannies sh!t the bed. They would not be talking about the RECALL that ford came out with on the TS trannies now would they??? They could just be a little upset about it because Ford is only paying 5.6 hours for R & R and install of one piece inside the trans.

UNISCAPER
01-05-2005, 11:22 AM
Gilla, Ok, your Diablo is on an 02. The 02 computer network does not show history as it does on the 04-05's. If you remove the computer for any reason, if you install a chip or tuner such as your Diablo, it will record it, iand if you have a claim, Ford will void yor claim. Ford has had a load of TS trannies go bad. First run stuff, but keep in mind, these trucks with fasiled trannies were running chips. I know the owner of the transmission shop I use and trust had one lemon lawed. By lemon lawing a vehicle in CA. the manufacturer can avoid very costly recalls not to mention bad publicity. Lemon laws can be agreed to by the manufacturer, or have to be pushed in court. Typically, manufacturers settle prior to court action, actually right after they get served with notice to appear they will settle out. These transmission issues in Fords eye are something they would like to keep isolated at the time being much like any other manufacturer would do.
Back to chips and tuners. If thier tranny fails because of added torque provided from a chip, don't you think the same effect is going to occur when pulling a trailer? Or working in mud? Or after the parts which all mechanical equipment uses wear? They are thinking like if they get the truck past warrantee so what. The problem is they can't over the warrantee period. Since Ford has not had a transmission that was worth a darn since they took the C-6 out, I'm hoping for the end users they got it right this time. I like thier trucks, but the rubber bands tey use in the trannies need to be made bigger of they should send me a herd of siberian milking goats to pull the thing around when it breaks.

Back to the F-450. Ford designed the E4OD and it's glorified cousin which is in our truck with an oil pump that does not circulate fluid when in reverse. THIS WAS JUST PLAIN STUIPID! I get off the road, and to a job with a load on and need to dump it. Ideally, they want me to let the truck sit for a few minutes before I back up....So let me get this straight...I'm paying good labor to let a truck sit with guys in it idling? I don't think that is acceptable. So, I'll just pull it backwards with my Chevy. Kidding here... Instead I kind of reroute how the truck is driven. If we can find a way to roll forward and use the slope to glide down, we do that rather than backing up the hill.

How you guys are getting the miles you are to me is unheard of. At least around this neck of the woods. And when Ford service managers who see all this stuff coem in daily tell me that Ford should have gone with a deal using the Allison tranny when they had it on the table....I didn't need to hear any more. I hope someday they get it right. I really do. And who knows, if we have the same problems with the GM units down the road, I'll be saying the same things about them. So then because the illustrious EPA dictates fuel milage to the manufacturers, which inturn created the need to manufacturers to add computer and electronics to thier transmissions, we the end users get stuck with out of control repair bills, and unreliable trucks. Then at that point you really have to weigh out weather you deal with manual shift and the clutch issues associated with them, or the failures of the automatics.

Smalltimer1
01-05-2005, 11:24 AM
I've heard worse things about the Allison around here, and been burned by 5 Allisons.

Like I said earlier, if the Allison was so great then why did they do a how-to on a Rebuild of the Allison 1000 transmission last week?

Shift solenoids, valving, all sorts of stuff that makes it go bad.

I've never heard of anyone losing transmissions as much as you in a Ford. You must really beat the hell out of them and baby your Allisons because from what I've seen they're no silver dollar either.

Gilla Gorilla
01-05-2005, 12:33 PM
Uniscaper I can kindof relate to your situation with the front pump leaking out when backing up with a trailer or under a load. In 2003 I had a customer come into the deaership when I was the service advisor and said that his truck left him stranded 1 1/2 hours from the dealership when he was backing up his trailer that was 7k total package up a hill and it started having fluid pour out from the front of the trans.
We spent a lot of time on it, replaced the front seal, pump and torque converter. We had never had a complaint like this. After I read two months ago about your 450 tranny going bad when backing up and what you were told about the pump in reverse I called my old team leader and he said that he had not heard that. But he did not doubt that Ford would do something that stuppid. And actually them have done some dumber things also. LOL

I think the biggest problem with Ford at our dealership was that they wanted us after a while to just replace the trannys for a couple of years then they went back to having us overhaul them. Man was that a big cluster F. We really didnt have any dedicated trans guy at that time but they do now.

Oh well Im glad I dont have to deal with that crap any more.

UNISCAPER
01-05-2005, 03:01 PM
Smalltimer:

The Allisons you compare are ones from a 1983 Vaccum shift 3208 Cat powered C-70 series truck that worked on your grandfather farm. They were vaccum shift by design, and depending on application were problematic. However, when we used thier design in garbage packer trucks that stoped and started up and down hills 8-12 hours a day 6 days a week, and they don't scatter after 5 years, I'm inclinded to say either you are leaving something out of your equation, or you are beating your trucks. And, it is entirely possible that you simply got a lemon. In production occasionally, there is always one that should not not gotten through inspection.

Solenoids on the new design Allison, yes when they were first introduced, they had issues. And, in that run, there are a number of them that had not been given the updates as when those that broke went down. This is exactly why I never buy a new design of any brand until a few years. I was very skeptical of GM's new diesel, the Duramax, given the junk they made for so many years prior. They even make a 468 cubic inch variety available in the 45-55500 series truck. In the beginning, they had some injector issues. Those are too solved. The same as when Ford first introduced the downstroked stroke, the 366 cuic inch version of the 444. They had so many electrical issues they were considering a recall and decided agaisnt it.

As far as beating trucks, if you call using a 1 ton 4x4 pick-up to pull trailers with skid steers, and plowing snow beating the truck, well then I guess that is what we did. If you call backing a trailer up a hill with an F-450 into a parking spot, well, I guess that too is beating the truck. And if you call driving the truck down the road at highway speeds beating the truck, well then I guess that is beating the truck.
So, let me ask, if I put the trucks on a 20 ton dovetail flatbed and pull them all over behind my Chevy 3500 Duramax/Allison, would you call driving them up the ramp to chain them down to the trailer beating the truck too?

Don't take this as me being a smartass. You can kind of get the jist of my point here. We have done nothing more than what we expect out of a vehicle for this purpose. And this is the purpose the Ford dealerships claim an F-450 will perform. After all, Ford chose to place this transmission in a 2 ton F-450 series truck, not me. So, do I drive a 450 around parading it looking bad so everyone can be impressed with the braun of my truck, or do I use it for it's intended purpose and replace transmissions every 6 months or so?

Gilla:

The chief tech at our Ford dealership told me that when in service school, they were told the oil did not flow in reverse. I do not beleive you will find a service bulletain on this because as soon as they print it, they admit they screwed up and would have to replace everything rolling around that had those particular trannies in them. That would explain the leaking pump, the oil expands and pushes through the seals from being so hot. But, even with a large external cooler, because the pump does not flow in reverse, the cooler does you no good.
So, I just get off the higway with a load of broiken concrete...I pull over the scale, they check me, I back into the pile to dump..Tranny goes squirt....Then I had no gears when I put the truck into drive to move forward. It just cooked again.

Back to the Allison. Many internal parts can be interchanged with the old turbo 400, which falls into the catagory of C-6, 727 Torqueflight and T-400....Unstoppable. The only thing that screws us all is the ridiculous cost of electrically activated parts which have no business in any transmission.

Scag48
01-05-2005, 11:39 PM
I don't know what this is all about. We have 130,000 on a '99 Ford F-350 7.3. No problems whatsoever. Get about 17 MPG on the highway loaded. No problems here, long live Ford. I myself drive a '00 GMC Sierra 2500HD 6.0 Vortec and with a K&N air filter and Flowmaster muffler I only get about 16 on the highway unloaded, about 13 in town with the mowing trailer. Needless to say the next truck I buy will be diesel and it's going to be a Ford, can't beat 'em.

pottstim
01-06-2005, 05:16 PM
Just read this over at Plowsite.com about Ford having problems with TorqueShift transmission housings cracking. :dizzy: Take a look.

http://plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=21456

UNISCAPER
01-06-2005, 06:34 PM
Gee what a freekin surprise! Brand lovers crack me up! This is EXACTLY the kind of thing I have been talking about. I want to see some of
Fords new super tranny after 4 heavy plow seasons and 4 seasons pulling lawn equipment.

D Felix
01-06-2005, 06:46 PM
Our '00 F350 at work just turned 90k, no tranny problems.... While we don't have 5+% extended grades around here, we do have many hills, some of which are steep. In the spring, the truck is used on a daily basis to haul 15+ yards of mulch on a trailer. The load gets a little lighter later on in the season, but it's still pulling a trailer 80% of the time, or better.

Bill- I'm wondering if you drive with the OD off while pulling a load? I've been told that the owner's manual says to drive with it off if you are carrying a load, unless you are on a flat highway...................

I'm not a committed Ford guy (I'd rather have a Dodge), but I'd MUCH rather have a Ford than a Chevy. If I wanted to drive a car, I'd buy a car!


Dan

UNISCAPER
01-06-2005, 06:52 PM
Dan:

Yes, the OD button is turned off under load on slopes. And, I even instructed the guys in English and Spanish as to how and when that button should be on or off. And, occasionally, it has been checked, and I have never caught them with it where I would not have it, so that tells me they are doing what they are supposed to be doing!

Smalltimer1
01-06-2005, 07:48 PM
Just read this over at Plowsite.com about Ford having problems with TorqueShift transmission housings cracking. :dizzy: Take a look.

http://plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=21456


http://www.gm-diesel.com/diesel/vbull/showthread.php?p=88171#post88171

http://www.sportruck.com/tech/archive/3021.html

http://www.rv.net/forums/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/529544.cfm

http://www.trailerlife.com/forums/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/567022/gotomsg/579102.cfm

http://www.trailerlife.com/forums/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/309066/gotomsg/309466.cfm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
My 2001 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD 4X4 with an Allison transmission looses power while driving:

The engine loses power while driving. The battery light comes on, the oil pressure starts to drop, the tachometer drops to zero, the voltage stays around 14 volts. The loss of power is about 2 to 5 seconds.

At highway speeds the engine restarts itself. At slow speed you have to use the starter.

Does anyone have any ideas why?

Dallas Leier, daleier@aol.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

So the Allison is bulletproof? :confused:

UNISCAPER
01-06-2005, 08:29 PM
In all of those links, they refer to model production year 01. There is mention of an 02, and I'm betting that came from that same batch. Unlike Ford, GM saw the problems recognized them and has since corrected them.
Ford on the other hand has been building more unreliable junk by the day.

But Ford's new TS tranny is bulletproof isn't it? Yet Ford, your truck of dying choice has had issues from 1994 when the E4OD was brought in, until now when they are still having problems. It must have been that French guy who was chairman and CEO who is to blame...:) payup As I said before, Ford makes a great truck with a rubber band transmission. They never should have placed the E4OD and it's glorified version into an F-450. That was just plain stupid.

We have never had transmission issues until we added the electronic shift Fords to our fleet. That's why they are going bye bye real fast. Those who snow plow had best have a spare sitting ready to go to work for when thier truck goes down. :cool2:

Smalltimer, you should go ask Ford if they want to pay you to market for them, it would be a great way to pay for your new truck. I had another thought on your grandfathers 70 series with the 3208 and the Allison. :help: If he geared it too high, any automatic will blow left and right. You mentoned you had issues with a 700R4. That is the LIGHT duty GM automatic. If your farm is a hard on trucks as you say, the truck should have had an L80E in it and you would not have the problems. And your dealer should have known this when it was sold to your grandfather. ;)

As I said before, we ran a combination of Cat/Allison in a fleet of about 1,200 garbage trucks and they would run for 5 years and more before ever needing to be replaced. Stop start all day 6 days a week. Driving up and down a 1500 foot grade into the dump 2 times a day packing 50,000 lbs. The 3208/Allison combo is actually one the most popular garbage truck power combinations and if they had all the problems you grandfather had, they were geared too high. Once the rear end was speced out right, there were never any problems. :blob3:
That Allison is in no way related to the Allisons connected to the Duramax in the first place. :angry: You take one model year and one tranny that is no way close to what I am talking about and toot your Ford horn. On the other hand, I'm talking about 3 Ford model year trannies over 11 years that can't pull a booger out of a wet bucket of snot. You need to get past your brand sensitive pride and look at reality. Ford transmissions in our application do not hold up. That's fact. If they work for others on level flat ground, never having to plow snow, or run through goopy mud or never loaded to capacity, great. THEY DON'T WORK HERE! You mentioned abuse in an earlier post. Do you have an answer for what I replied in that regard? These are trucks, made to work, made to produce income, as advertised. What do you want people to do run them around with no load looking bad just to say we got a truck? Ford transmissions in our application do not work for what the manufacturer intended them to do. Nothing more needs to be said. :sleeping:

mrusk
01-06-2005, 08:45 PM
UNISCAPER- I am going to be buying a 1 ton truck within the next month. I had my mind set on getting the ford with the PSD and torqshift, however because of your post i am severly doubting and secound guessing my decision. This truck is going to be pulling a full 18 ft enclosed mowing trailer half the time and will have a load in the bed(dump body) the other half, and will plow during the window. Do you agree that i should go Chevy?

Matt

UNISCAPER
01-06-2005, 09:48 PM
Matt:

First consider this. Your usage. 18' trailer, mowers, all day? Stop/start, all day? Hills? traffic?

In Illinois we had very gradual hills, mostly flat. And, we plowed snow. This is where the first issues occured. Then out here in the hills, 3 mile long 6° grades, day in day out....It is killing the Ford trucks. Gas rigs of all brands and sizes bog down to 50 pulling those grades.

I never ever buy anything that is new. Duramax and Allison, new concept in 2000. Now, bugs are gone. Ford has a new tranny, I hope in time they get it right. Still too new for me to consder one. And too much money lost if the truck goes down. Sure, warrantees fix problems, but the reality is they don't pay you back for lost revenue.

We have a 4500 and 5500 Chevy with a Dmax and Allison combo. Both have roll off dump bodies. And, we have an 02 F-450. I love the Ford cab and the truck has aluminum wheels and a billet grille, looks pretty tricked out, but I cannot accept or afford the downtime any longer.

The 4500 turns tighter than the 450, it has a heavier frame, and the engine tranny combo I feel is more sound. The cab is much quieter than the Ford. The only thing I am changing is we are putting upswept exhaust on the trucks rather than down below so when the guys have to work around it and it idles, the gaases don't gag them. You can get a 4500 cab and chassis in the $30,000 range depending on options.

Ford has to work through the usually bugs of a new design. They have had everything from electrical issues on the engines to serious transmission issues when they hooked the downsized PSD to the new transmission. There was even a brief rumor of a recall but they got things somewhat under control....And now the transmission housings are cracking apart under load.

I am so sick of Ford trucks hard parts comming unglued that it is going to be a long time before they ever come into our fleet again. Yeah they fix the trucks under warrantee, but, a) what happens after that expires, and b) what is Ford going to do to compensate the truck sitting idle so much?

The question remains "Why do they sell more trucks?" This is a good one. Think about the years GM made those junk diesels and the stigma that is still surrounding them. In comparison, the Japs bombed us in 1941, and it took 30 years before Americans began buying thier products again. Same goes for the bad rap about GM trucks. The mere mention of GM and diesel in the same sentence makes the hair on alot of folks backs stand up....
I myself was very skeptical about the Duramax when it first came onto the market, I wished they cut a deal with Caterpillar and not Isuzu, and, much the same as I am with Ford, I am cautiously optimisitic that eventually, thier transmission woes will subside. IN TIME....

I want to see an Ford F-3 or 450 pick up that pulled an 18 foot loaded down trailer of lawn equipment and plowed heavy snow for 4 full seasons before I make a complete decision as to weather I would own another one. Or, an F-450 that was used to haul with for 4 years in our area.

In your position Matt, I would run to the GM dealer and get a Duramax/Allison. With 20,000 miles in 6 months, our 3500 4x4 just pulls and pulls. Hit the tow package button, and you don't even feel the trailer behind you. It pulls a 16' Wells Cargo loaded with tols and fittings, or a 20' flatdeck with a Cat MTL and a 6 way blade. total weight, 11,400 lbs.
I can drop a full pallet of Keystone Country Manor retaining walls in the bed at a weight of 2,800 lbs and it drops the truck 4 inches, but the load does not even strain the acceleration. Our 450 is going bye bye and getting replaced with a Mack Granite single axle truck, so we are not running to capacity all the time. That too may be why we are loosing hard parts so often, but, we are talking about a truck that is suppoed to do what we do with it.

And don't make your decision soley on my post. I am not a brand addict, but you may really find a Ford suites your application better than a GM product. Right now, the only way I would buy another Ford is if it was stick shift, and I would install a Jake brake. Manual shift and employees, sometimes not so good an idea.
If you are going to drop 40K on a truck, you deserve 2 things. First, every option and color YOU want. Don't let some salesman talk you into something different because it is on the lot. Second, at least 200,000 relatively trouble free miles. No matter what brand you buy.

I hope this helps.

mrusk
01-06-2005, 10:46 PM
hmmm
I can't go 4500. Thats to big of a truck to drive around in all the time. So i need a 3500. The chevy has a 11,400 gvwr and the Ford has a 13,000 gvwr. So with the ford I legally have a greater payload of 1,600 in the bed?

Decisions, decisions.

Matt

Scag48
01-07-2005, 12:12 AM
Uniscaper-I had an '82 GMC Sierra 1500 with the 6.2 litre UN-TURBO diesel and it was a pile. In the future, it's that experience that I had with that truck that will stop me from buying a GM product with a diesel engine and I won't buy another gas truck again, just costs too much to run them compared to diesels. I guess that's why I'm going to stick with Ford. The frames are great, built for anything. We haul 25,000 on our goosneck no problem, the truck hardly squats even with an additional 1,500 pounds of tools in the bed. We've had good luck with our Ford, that's enough to make me keep buying them. The way I figure it, you'll never change anyone's loyalty to one brand. If you're having good luck with a certain product, you aren't going to switch no matter how good the competition's product may be. Now, I drive a GMC right now as my high school/work vehicle. Sure the 6.0 litre gas has alot of power and with a flowmaster muffler it turns heads, but for a hardcore work vehicle I won't use anything but Ford diesels until I start having problems like you're having with yours, which hasn't happened thus far. Good luck in the future.

UNISCAPER
01-07-2005, 12:13 AM
Ok, now I'm seeing where you are comming from Matt.
I use the old school method. A 350, or 3500 series truck regardless of posted GVW should carry no more than 2 tons, ideally, 1.5 tons. Manufacturers use bogus formulas all the time to boast GVW and towing capacites. Example....An F-150 Ford, and a Sneeze-On Titan brag about a 9500lb towing capacity. Matter of fact, when Ford first released the F-150 it had a lower pulling capacity. They quickly reformulated the pulling weight when Nissan announced it's 9500 kb rating. Do you really think that a 1/2 ton truck will pull day in day out, a 4.75 ton object all day and be able to stop and start effectively and endure the test of the load? Answer, nope...The way they rate GVW is to pump a few things here, remove a thing or two there until they get the rating equation they need to market the truck. It is used more as a sales tool than it is a guage to what you can really carry. They do the same thing with air quality statistics. On a side note, the new generation two strokes are actually polluting less than the four strokes do. In an effort to push the new design stats were slanted to gain a favorable rating. Back to trucks....I always worry about stopping with a load more than I worry about carrying that load. AS far as the 4500 comparing to the 3500, or the 450 to the 350, with the Ford, the cab is identical. With the Chevy, cab and roofline of the 4500 is different, fiberglass toss up nose, (much easier to change oil and filters) etc. Width wise, unless you were considering a single wheel rear, they are so close it ain't funny. Both run 19.5" tires, and the rear end is the same width. What you really gain with a 4 series is stopping capability under load and a little more carrying capacity.

Anyhow, regardless of the GVW, either truck will carry the same. Wheelbase is what state D.O.T. measures when they run your weight, at least in our state..

mrusk
01-07-2005, 07:52 AM
So your saying that the chevy 4500s are just as easy to drive and won't feel like i am driving a big rig? hmm I am going to have to go test drive one of them.

By all means, when i have aload in the back of the truck, i want to be within the legal capacity of the truck. God forbid if i were to get into a accident of some kind, i wouldn't want the insurance company walking away from me or anything like that. I've heard plenty of stories like that.

Matt

Smalltimer1
01-07-2005, 10:03 AM
In all of those links, they refer to model production year 01. There is mention of an 02, and I'm betting that came from that same batch. Unlike Ford, GM saw the problems recognized them and has since corrected them.
Ford on the other hand has been building more unreliable junk by the day.

But Ford's new TS tranny is bulletproof isn't it? Yet Ford, your truck of dying choice has had issues from 1994 when the E4OD was brought in, until now when they are still having problems. It must have been that French guy who was chairman and CEO who is to blame...:) payup As I said before, Ford makes a great truck with a rubber band transmission. They never should have placed the E4OD and it's glorified version into an F-450. That was just plain stupid.

We have never had transmission issues until we added the electronic shift Fords to our fleet. That's why they are going bye bye real fast. Those who snow plow had best have a spare sitting ready to go to work for when thier truck goes down. :cool2:

Smalltimer, you should go ask Ford if they want to pay you to market for them, it would be a great way to pay for your new truck. I had another thought on your grandfathers 70 series with the 3208 and the Allison. :help: If he geared it too high, any automatic will blow left and right. You mentoned you had issues with a 700R4. That is the LIGHT duty GM automatic. If your farm is a hard on trucks as you say, the truck should have had an L80E in it and you would not have the problems. And your dealer should have known this when it was sold to your grandfather. ;)

As I said before, we ran a combination of Cat/Allison in a fleet of about 1,200 garbage trucks and they would run for 5 years and more before ever needing to be replaced. Stop start all day 6 days a week. Driving up and down a 1500 foot grade into the dump 2 times a day packing 50,000 lbs. The 3208/Allison combo is actually one the most popular garbage truck power combinations and if they had all the problems you grandfather had, they were geared too high. Once the rear end was speced out right, there were never any problems. :blob3:
That Allison is in no way related to the Allisons connected to the Duramax in the first place. :angry: You take one model year and one tranny that is no way close to what I am talking about and toot your Ford horn. On the other hand, I'm talking about 3 Ford model year trannies over 11 years that can't pull a booger out of a wet bucket of snot. You need to get past your brand sensitive pride and look at reality. Ford transmissions in our application do not hold up. That's fact. If they work for others on level flat ground, never having to plow snow, or run through goopy mud or never loaded to capacity, great. THEY DON'T WORK HERE! You mentioned abuse in an earlier post. Do you have an answer for what I replied in that regard? These are trucks, made to work, made to produce income, as advertised. What do you want people to do run them around with no load looking bad just to say we got a truck? Ford transmissions in our application do not work for what the manufacturer intended them to do. Nothing more needs to be said. :sleeping:


Very funny what you say, the Ford dealer I've dealt with has has 0/ZERO/NADA/ZILCH TS replacements, just A4LD's and the occasional E40D/4R100/AOD, however the local Chevy dealer has crates upon crates of Allison replacements waiting to be installed behind their shop, which is beside our church parking lot within plain sight, right NOW. On their service line, there are about 8 Duramax/Allison trucks waiting for the replacements, all 04's and 05's, well at least thats how many there were when I was at church on Sunday.

UNISCAPER
01-07-2005, 10:56 AM
Interesting Small Timer. What dealer is it? I would love to talk to them and get an objective opinion.

UNISCAPER
01-07-2005, 11:25 AM
I with ya Scag. And even then, there is always a few who had no problems. For example, I ran into an older guy at the San Diego Auto show last week end. By the way, if ever in San Diego and it is on, save your money, this was the lamest new auto show I have ever seen. Not one manufacturer had a diesel truck displayed, very few concept cars, and no scantily clad bimbos pushing thier wares!

Anyhow, we get into this conversation. And, in passing, he (the older guy I met) tells me he owned one of those 6.2 junks. Get this....He just traded it this year for a V-6 Duramax/Allison powered Suburban. The truck was a 1984 Suburban with 300,000 miles on it and never had the heads off!

Scag48
01-07-2005, 09:37 PM
Wow, there's no doubt in my mind that the engine wouldn't physically run that long being diesel, but everything around it probably fell apart, much like my 6.2. In a year and a half I put a water pump, fuel pump, tranny, alternator, starter and some other various parts into that engine. The tranny cost almost as much as the truck was worth and when I replaced it, it had only been 2 years since it had a fresh on put in. Pretty crappy trucks. But on the upside, it did get good fuel mileage and that's all that truck was created to do. The funny thing is that mileage was the only driving factor in creating that diesel and that towing capacity and power wasn't their emphasis at all, GM actually encouraged you NOT to tow alot with the truck when you bought it BRAND NEW. Funny isn't it?

mrusk
01-09-2005, 05:01 PM
This week i am going to go test drive a chevy 4500 4x4 dmax. I matched the specs between the 4500 and the f450 and all the dimensions are within 1/2 an inch. The only difference is the cab on the chevy is 10ins higher. I guess the cab just makes the truck look bigger than it really is.

Matt

UNISCAPER
01-09-2005, 07:37 PM
The reason for the hieght difference is so you can get in wearing a hardhat and not have to remove it. It is the same reason that you saw one variety of the 65-7500 series with the bubble in the middle of the roof. The cab doors were the same as what the pick up trucks ran, but that bubble made all the difference in the world on certain jobs. When GM designed the 4500 series, they just raised to roof and did away with the problem.

Good luck with your test drive.

Albemarle Lawn
01-11-2005, 07:44 PM
V6 duramax?

Is GM offering a diesel Suburban again?


I just bought a C5500 crew. Nice truck, only complaint is the chintzy interior materials and all the squeaks, thuds, and rattles. Plastic quality is just rotten, in the first week the seat adjuster and clipboard in the console both broke off in my hand.

UNISCAPER
01-11-2005, 07:56 PM
Al the more reason yuppified crap has no business in a truck! LOL. I would much rather fix plastic than buy transmissions. And yes, GM has a V-6 Duramax offered in the suburban.

UNISCAPER
01-13-2005, 09:02 PM
I thought this may be of interest....It came from Groundtradesxchange.com, posted in a thread called "Trucks". Here a guy buys a truck so it can make him money and it has been sitting since before Christmas. I can only hope and pray for him that he is not a one truck operator.

I still maintain if you are buying a truck, stay away from Ford until they fix all thier goofs. The Allison transmission is the best one on the market.

"There's been a lot of discussion over on a snowplowing forum I and some others belong to about the new 2004 F-350 transmissions. Dozens (hundreds?) of plow trucks are blowing up their transmissions due to a manufacturing screw-up by Ford. Now is not the time to buy a new F-350 if you're out looking to buy. Thank god I've got an '04 Dodge and a '04 GMC, or I'd be screwed like many others are (including a buddy of mine who's brand new '04 died the night of our first big storm (Dec.22) and still doesn't have it back."

Smalltimer1
01-13-2005, 10:19 PM
More GM foul ups:

Gas Engine knocks

www.pistonslap.com

http://www.pistonslap.com/photos.htm

http://forums.vmag.com/ptsierra/messages/768.html

http://www.mylemon.com/Piston%20Slap.html

http://www.seattlesilverado.com/slapper.htm

http://www.woodalls.com/forums/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/13083910.cfm

http://www.lemonlaw.com/gm-engine-problem.html

http://www.rv.net/forums/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/13472845/gotomsg/13478362.cfm

http://www.carpixel.com/content/view/78/2

http://www.legal-database.com/piston-slap.htm

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=19668

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?threadid=27406

Transmissions:

http://www.rvusa.com/forum/main/topic.asp?topic_id=2550

Dmax/Allison Thoughts

Posted by: Allen Reagen

Don't you know that any time you talk about a DMAX/Allison, you have to back it up with a VIN number? Those damn Allisons are wastes of money, mine burned up in less than 20,000 miles. The guys that come over from Cheby land don't believe me. The one I had ('04 3500 Dmax/Allison CC DRW 4x4) seemed like the tranny was slipping all the time with acceleration. You know, like jumping in and out of gear.


Posted by: Barry

I was at my Dodge dealer yesterday. He is also a Chevrolet dealer. He has a lifelong friend who is also a local bizman that trades with him every 6 months just for fun. He puts on about 6,000 miles and then trades it back in. He has had 7 or 8 Dodge/Cummins. When the Dmax 320/605 was introduced, he had the first one in town. It was a 2 WD Auto. His second was a 4X4 Club Cab Dually 6 speed. He just traded it and went back to Dodge/Cummins. SO DMAX fans, here is your chance to scarf-up a DMAX cheap! Call Deanna @ 1 800 Bossier and tell "Giggles" I sent you. I asked her husband Johnny how much he needed for the truck(he is the sales mangler) and he mumbled just my $ out of it. I think he said something just over 30K.


Posted by: Billy Stockman

I drove the Chevy/GMC Duramax/Allison trucks loaded with weight in the beds and trailers in tow along with similarly equipped Dodge and Ford trucks.

I wasn't impressed with the Allison transmission. I have driven and sold medium duty trucks equipped with the Allison World(3000 series) automatic transmissions, nothing to write home about. The 1000 series in the GM product shifts similarly, again nothing to write home about, the ones I've driven slipped terribly and I got rid of them as fast as possible and they have either been replaced with Ford Torqshifts or Eaton Autos in the larger trucks, have had no further troubles since.


Posted by: Barry

Billy, the part I do not understand is why the Allisons have such a good reputation when mine has been nothing but trouble. We have been hearing of the Allisons failing in less than 5,000 miles behind the D-maxes. Mine made it to 15,000 miles in my '03 2500 LS Ext. Cab 4x4 8.1L/Allison. Once this truck is sold, I'm getting a Ford PSD/TS, I have heard nothing but good things on the '04's and '05's.


Posted by: jdecamo

Most problems with the Allison are in the program. Although there have been some trans failures for other reasons. The guys who program don't seem to know what a diesel is made to do, stay low in the rpm's. Guys with the 6spd say it pulls down in the rpm very well. There have been updates to make it hold 5th gear that they say are better, but you can't believe much of what comes out of Detroit, got to go to Dearborn to get a good truck nowadays.

gslam88
01-14-2005, 01:05 AM
SG,

I just noticed..your in town... where abouts are you? I am over off pepper st.

Pete

UNISCAPER
01-14-2005, 11:15 AM
Yet another fine example of a few Ford transmission designs...Go to www.groundtradesxchange.com under "trucks" But according to Smalltimer, this tranny is tested through and through....

What I am starting to think is that the 5 speed for sure and most likely the 4 speed are not heavy enough for 450\550's. I can go through the list of problems with the tranny's and the excuses we are getting from Ford, but I truly believe this is where the issue is. Our 2 350\7.3\4 speeds have not had any problems other than the one I referred to earlier in this thread. My guess is these tranny's are fine for exactly that.

Our '05 550 went a whole 440 miles, 10 hours plowing and the tranny was cracked. The 4WD shift lever wouldn't stay engaged in 4WD. The 'new and improved' part was worse than the original.

Our '04 550 went 15K miles before the case cracked. This was our fault (supposedly) because we are not coming to a complete stop when shifting forward\reverse and vice versa while plowing. There's a couple problems with this theory: #1 they are wrong because the operator has more experience than anyone else in our company and is not abusing this truck; #2 The service tech told me that there is a built in electronic delay to prevent this from happening when there is any movement sensed on the output shaft; #3 This is the fourth time that truck has been in for 'shudder' when shifting into reverse. I found out on another forum that the Ford hotline told a tech that the reason the snap ring that is causing all these problems was changed in late '04 and '05 was to eliminate 'shudder' when shifting. Sound familiar??

I've spoken with our sales rep and the service advisor and have a bunch of info printed off for the service manager. Supposedly they are going to speak with their zone rep to see what can be done. My thought at this time is someone is going to provide me with a very long extended warranty on these truck as soon as they get a decent transmission in these things.

Smalltimer1
01-14-2005, 12:03 PM
Yet another fine example of a few Ford transmission designs...Go to www.groundtradesxchange.com under "trucks" But according to Smalltimer, this tranny is tested through and through....

What I am starting to think is that the 5 speed for sure and most likely the 4 speed are not heavy enough for 450\550's. I can go through the list of problems with the tranny's and the excuses we are getting from Ford, but I truly believe this is where the issue is. Our 2 350\7.3\4 speeds have not had any problems other than the one I referred to earlier in this thread. My guess is these tranny's are fine for exactly that.

Our '05 550 went a whole 440 miles, 10 hours plowing and the tranny was cracked. The 4WD shift lever wouldn't stay engaged in 4WD. The 'new and improved' part was worse than the original.

Our '04 550 went 15K miles before the case cracked. This was our fault (supposedly) because we are not coming to a complete stop when shifting forward\reverse and vice versa while plowing. There's a couple problems with this theory: #1 they are wrong because the operator has more experience than anyone else in our company and is not abusing this truck; #2 The service tech told me that there is a built in electronic delay to prevent this from happening when there is any movement sensed on the output shaft; #3 This is the fourth time that truck has been in for 'shudder' when shifting into reverse. I found out on another forum that the Ford hotline told a tech that the reason the snap ring that is causing all these problems was changed in late '04 and '05 was to eliminate 'shudder' when shifting. Sound familiar??

I've spoken with our sales rep and the service advisor and have a bunch of info printed off for the service manager. Supposedly they are going to speak with their zone rep to see what can be done. My thought at this time is someone is going to provide me with a very long extended warranty on these truck as soon as they get a decent transmission in these things.

More bull as far as I'm concerned. No TS failures here, and these guys are pulling horse trailers across country and also pulling tractors and skid steers in excess of 20,000 lbs. The 6L PSD had a few bugs in late '02 and early '03, but those problems have been resolved. The transmissions are much better than what they used to be. The Allison is not as bulletproof as you think it is, failures at 50 & 60,000 for those are not unheard of, here anyway.

Of course you paid no attention to the GM piston slap, knock, and CSK issues I mentioned.

Smalltimer1
01-14-2005, 12:10 PM
"The very evidence provided by the manufacturer
(GM) to indicate this condition is not a problem ultimately demonstrates that it is a problem."
California BBB Arbitrator 12/03

"...a knocking engine could lower the value
of a vehicle by $4,000 to $6,000 at trade-in"
Charlie Vogelheim, executive editor for Kelley Blue Book
Detroit Free Press 02/21/04

"My 2004 8.1L is knocking with less then 2K miles"
post on pistonslap.com forum (click here)

Lawyers, GM spar over data on engine problems
Detroit News Auto Insider 9/04 (full article here)

GM Consumers, do you have a 1999-2004 (2005?) 3.1, 3.4, 4.3, 4.6 (Northstar), 4.8, 5.3, 5.7(LS1), 6.0 or 8.1 liter engine that displays any of the following problems?

A loud embarrassing and annoying internal engine knock. Many are defective due to design and manufacturing quality consistency problems. Listen to piston slap here.


Higher than normal levels of wear related materials in oil analysis samples performed by independent laboratories.

Vertical piston and cylinder wall scuffing/scratching or scoring on the hammering (noisy) cylinders upon visual inspection. See photos here.


Reduced combustion chamber compression on the hammering (noisy) cylinders.


Increased oil consumption.

Increased exhaust emissions.


Did GM or there agents tell you they would fix your defective vehicle in writing/and/or verbally when the phantom "New Piston" fix WAS TO arrive in the spring or summer of 2002? GM did in fact admit it had a problem and that its engineering department was working on the fix. The fix was promised to be made to consumer’s engines in the spring or summer of 2002. As the number of slapping engines grew and the cost to repair them grew as well, GM changed its policy.





We are receiving complaints from fellow slappers who are taking their vehicle's into dealerships for piston slap. Apparently some dealerships are saying it is 'normal' and not giving the consumer a work order, even when asked to do so. If this happens to you be sure to keep the following information for your records:

1. Date of repair attempt
2. Time of repair attempt
3. Service writer/managers name**
4. Name of person refusing work order**
5. Service tech's name refusing to do work**
6. Any other items/notes/observations to show proof you were there

** - Write down names in front of the person.

Smalltimer1
01-14-2005, 12:18 PM
Need more?

UNISCAPER
01-14-2005, 11:41 PM
Smalltimer:

The difference between you and I is you are a kid, hell bent on your brand. You buy junk Honda lawn tractors and use them to make your living. I on the other hand, but new equipment, which best suites my needs. We are all hopefully in this forum to learn and grow. There is nothing worse than when a manufacturer who you have placed trust in fails in thier design and won't stand behind you. If you want to learn, and continue to grow your business, you have to be willing to get the equipment that best suites your business needs. If repairing old junk Honda lawn tractors, and insisting that your Ford equipment is unbreakable is what works for you, you are living ina fantasy world.

In the real world, these trucks are failing miserably, which, shows the point I have said all along. At this time, GM and the Allison transmission is the best in the buisiness. Ford on the other hand has had transmission failures for the past 13 years. The new rubber band powered transmission you bow to is in serious need of real world uses rather than a test track, and, as I said numerous times before, I wanted to see one after 4 winter of plowing snow. The person who posted what I sent, is someopne I have known through variuous landsape circles for several years now, and, has been in business for 30 years plus.

Not some kid with a brand name logo next to every post he makes. I have no problems with Fords trucks. I do have problems with the way they chose to transfer power from the engine to the rear end.
You mention piston slap. Once again you duck the issue. We are talking about transmission failures, and you talk about gasoline engines. Frankly, you act like a know it all type of moron, and I can only assume that I am wrong here and that your pride has overtaken reality.
If Allison transmissions had half the problems at present that Ford is having, I would have bought Ford's or Dodge's. I have owned 23 Ford trucks, 27 GM trucks, and 4 Dodge trucks, incliding a 1942 Powerwagon with a 95HP flathead six and 10 ton winches front and back. Of those trucks, Ford trucks after the years of 1993, have had the most expensive problems. I measure truck dependability on how much money they make us, and how much they cost to keep running.

You need to face the fact that it is still too soon for the TS transmission to be called proven, and, as per my experience, Ford shows no eveidence that they will improve. The only reason I post what I do is so hopefully, others can get an objective opinion of brands other than Ford (which they get enough from you) hold up and function in any given situation.

You got alot of growing up to do. Hopefully, you will do that sooner than later and the mistakes you make won't cost you as mine have cost me on the way to our success.

Smalltimer1
01-15-2005, 02:40 PM
Smalltimer:

The difference between you and I is you are a kid, hell bent on your brand. You buy junk Honda lawn tractors and use them to make your living. I on the other hand, but new equipment, which best suites my needs. We are all hopefully in this forum to learn and grow. There is nothing worse than when a manufacturer who you have placed trust in fails in thier design and won't stand behind you. If you want to learn, and continue to grow your business, you have to be willing to get the equipment that best suites your business needs. If repairing old junk Honda lawn tractors, and insisting that your Ford equipment is unbreakable is what works for you, you are living ina fantasy world.

In the real world, these trucks are failing miserably, which, shows the point I have said all along. At this time, GM and the Allison transmission is the best in the buisiness. Ford on the other hand has had transmission failures for the past 13 years. The new rubber band powered transmission you bow to is in serious need of real world uses rather than a test track, and, as I said numerous times before, I wanted to see one after 4 winter of plowing snow. The person who posted what I sent, is someopne I have known through variuous landsape circles for several years now, and, has been in business for 30 years plus.

Not some kid with a brand name logo next to every post he makes. I have no problems with Fords trucks. I do have problems with the way they chose to transfer power from the engine to the rear end.
You mention piston slap. Once again you duck the issue. We are talking about transmission failures, and you talk about gasoline engines. Frankly, you act like a know it all type of moron, and I can only assume that I am wrong here and that your pride has overtaken reality.
If Allison transmissions had half the problems at present that Ford is having, I would have bought Ford's or Dodge's. I have owned 23 Ford trucks, 27 GM trucks, and 4 Dodge trucks, incliding a 1942 Powerwagon with a 95HP flathead six and 10 ton winches front and back. Of those trucks, Ford trucks after the years of 1993, have had the most expensive problems. I measure truck dependability on how much money they make us, and how much they cost to keep running.

You need to face the fact that it is still too soon for the TS transmission to be called proven, and, as per my experience, Ford shows no eveidence that they will improve. The only reason I post what I do is so hopefully, others can get an objective opinion of brands other than Ford (which they get enough from you) hold up and function in any given situation.

You got alot of growing up to do. Hopefully, you will do that sooner than later and the mistakes you make won't cost you as mine have cost me on the way to our success.

You're the one saying I need to grow up? I'm the one who's training to be an engineer. I wouldnt say the Allison is bad if I haven't seen bad things about them, in person.

I ain't no kid either. I'm 6'6" and 275, and I graduated with a 3.85 GPA. I'm in the College of Engineering at North Carolina State University, the top Engineering School in the Southeast, specializing in Agricultural Engineering with a concentration on machine design and development, so I'm around these machines a lot. To be an engineer, you must be a mechanic first, in my opinion.

That Honda riding lawnmower is not junk, it ran before the starter died. I had another Honda rider 5 years ago that the same thing happened to, that I was able to fix and it ran reliably and I sold it to my next door neighbor for $800, they still use that mower to this day. I can fix what I buy. I bought a NEW John Deere GT-235 in 1999 after I sold the other Honda. I've used it almost every day that I'm at home during summer and spring. The carb went bad on it. It was not a JD carb.....it was a walbro or some out sourced OEM. By the way have you checked next to my name yet.....It looks like a JD 318 cutaway to me.....

I know that Fords aren't bulletproof, but I strive to make mine work as reliably as possible. I change my own oil/filter, air filter, spark plugs, wires, all the essentials that must be done to maintain mechanical integrity, this includes the transmission. Fluid/filter changes are done when listed on schedule some times before if I know I'm going to be doing a lot of long distance driving. I check the fluid before and after every time I hook up to a big load, such as our 26' Dovetail equipment trailer. Probably over Spring Break, I'm gonna replace the U-joints in it. Heck I inspect my grandfather's F-150 before we take it to Chesapeake Bay (5 hour trip with hills and steep grades), make sure its doing ok with oil and tranny fluid. That doesn't sound immature to me....... I am also the only person that maintains my father's '90 Silverado 4x4, which to be honest, needs to be retired soon, the cab corners in it are shot, the engine uses oil, and the transmission is slipping, has already broken an upper control arm (but has been repaired), and blown the rear end (2,000 miles after we bought it). Sure the Fords we've had have had trouble but nothing big. The '90 F-150 my grandfather had needed brakes more than normal. It also needed shocks more than normal as well. But other than that it was stone reliable, with its E40D, he sold it to get his '98 F-150. My uncle had a 92 Explorer with an A4LD, which ended up getting replaced (at 120,000 miles), but that's the only transmission trouble we've had with a Ford, he sold that and bought a new '97 F-150, no trouble with it, and it has over 100,000 miles on it now. This summer I'm planning to buy this '68 F-100 sitting up the street and fix up as a nice work truck in addition to mine. I bought an '84 F-150 last year for $250, it had sat for 5 years, I changed spark plugs, put a new windshield in it, new gas tank, and got it running and sold it for $2200. Immature again??

In fact, this afternoon I'm going to go put an injection pump on the '83 Chevy 6.2 diesel at the farm, which also had the whole front end replaced last month. I know what I do. I can do pretty much anything that we have the facilities for, which is just a one bay shop with a drill press, a welder, grinders, engine lift, ceiling hoist, and every hand tool you can imagine. I don't take too kindly to someone who says I don't know what I'm talking about.

Just because I haven't had transmission problems in my Ford doesn't mean that you have to criticize and say that I'm full of crap. I take care of my equipment. I keep my eyes open. When I see something better, I see if its really up to what I need it for, and I'll go with it. But I also won't turn down free equipment either. I've got a Craftsman Blower and a White LT-12 both were given to me, they don't owe me anything. The only things I've had to do is put gas in them and go.

The new Fords are leaps and bounds ahead of my '95. They have gotten better year by year. The engines and transmissions have gotten better, there are still bugs in some of their parts, but what vehicle doesn't? My point is you're going to spend money one way or another on a truck, regardless of where it goes.

The image that GM can do no wrong is what has been projected here, thats the reason I brought up the piston slap and knock issues, to show that they have a serious problem on their hands that they are doing next to nothing about. This does not include the intake gasket failures of the 96-01 Vortecs which at around 60,000 miles happen to almost every one of those engines, as well as the Dexcool fiasco. Personally, I'd rather replace transmissions than engines. I can see why GM had to farm out their transmissions......

I know I'm not done growing, but neither are you. The thing you should keep in mind, is that no one ever stops growing up, I've learned a lot in the past few years, and I know I have a lot more that is coming my way, hopefully you will see this as well. A person that doesn't grow up is dead.

I also would appreciate it if you didn't result to childish name calling. Shows who the mature ones really are around here.

Smalltimer1
01-15-2005, 03:24 PM
Here's the '84 I fixed up in 2003. 1984 F-150 351 H.O./C6 9" rear. It had the lightest payload package you could get with the 351, 4900 lbs GVW I believe it was.

Markf
01-15-2005, 06:45 PM
SG,

I just noticed..your in town... where abouts are you? I am over off pepper st.

Pete
Pete,
When you say Pepper St., do you mean Monroe, CT. We live real close to Pepper Street. :waving:

ksss
01-20-2005, 08:09 PM
Wow it has been I a while since I stopped over on this forum. It looks like its ready to go to blows over this Ford/GM thing.

some observations

Scag: Your basing your truck buying decisions on an 82' model pickup? You must be kidding me. For a note I had an 84' K-30 with the 6.2 L and a Banks Power pack. I loved that truck, sold it with 200K (160K of those were mine) on it with no major component failure.

Smalltimer: It is obvious your a big time Ford guy. We all can cruise the Net and find "evidence" to support a particular side. Nothing said (written) is going to change that anyone already believes. What does your physical size have to do with anything. Proving your not a kid? I think that Uniscaper was refering more to your preceived lack of life experience than your physical size.

Uniscaper: You are "brand blind" maybe not Ford Vs GM, but certainly CAT Vs anyone. However, we seem to agree about vehicles.

My experiences are this, I have always had GM even growing up my dad drove Fords and I drove GM. I have had a version of every Diesel GM has built and put into its light duty pickups. Currently I have an 88 K-30 with a 6.2L, 93 K-30 crew cab 6.5TD, 01 K-3500 D/A excab, 03 K-2500 crew cab, 05 5500 crew cab 4X4 D/A.

The 01-3500 gets worked very hard. I have gone across scales weighing up to 32,600 GCVW. I have 68K on it and have had zero engine/drive train problems. Maybe luck or maybe it is a well built vehicle I am hoping on the later. The 5500 is waiting for the flatbed to be built so I haven't spent much time in it or pulled anything with it. I like GM pickups and will continue to buy them. I am not trying to convert anyone nor slam any one that doesn't believe as I do. Buy what you want. It is your dollars spend as you like.

Somethings I know to be true: GM did have some early allison troubles. I heard many reasons why but who really knows? The Duramax does have some injector issues. However, GM seems to be doing the right thing and extended the warranty to 200K and 7 years on 01 and 02. I appreciated that in case I have problems. Fords transmissions are soft in the pre TS models. I don't think that is a great secret. I have not heard much about the TS tranny to be honest good or bad. The general feelings I have heard even by "dyed in the wool" Ford guys is to stay away from the early 6.0 L Fords for a variety of reasons. One thing I have heard repeatedly from most of the new diesel buyers is that the mileage of the new pickups is worse then the models they traded in for. I believe this is do to EPA requirements as I have noticed that the more EPA complient all engines have become the worse the economy. I have noticed this even in offroad diesel engines. Look at the HD diesel market as an indication. They can't match the economy of previous models, they have become more complicated, and cost much more than previous models. They are now cleaner burning, but require more fuel to go the same distance as the models they replaced. How that makes sense I don't know.

Albemarle Lawn
01-22-2005, 01:42 AM
We have a 2004 C5500 (2wd).

Its a big truck, Crew Cab on a 238" Wheelbase with a 20' enclosed body. The thing is 11' tall.

My only complaint is the cheap interior plastics, clipboard and seat adjuster broke off in my hand.

Along with the cheap plastic are a lot of squeaks and rattles.

Powertrain is awesome.

My next one will either be the 4x4 or a C6500 or C7500 with the Duramax 7800 Inline 6 cylinder engine. I bought the 22,000 GVW, and even with that I only have payload of 7500 lbs for load, fuel, and men.

Albemarle Lawn
01-22-2005, 02:02 AM
I have the "big" Allison in my C5500 truck.

I think it is call LCT2200 or LCT2400.

Do all the troubles apply to this unit too?

It shifts wonderfully, keeping the engine RPM's low.

Smalltimer1
01-22-2005, 06:45 PM
What does your physical size have to do with anything. Proving your not a kid? I think that Uniscaper was refering more to your preceived lack of life experience than your physical size.

If I was a kid I would not be at the best engineering school in the South, learning the skills of designing machinery and devices such as these. I don't appreciate being called a kid, when I am in the adult world everyday and have the bills and taxes to prove it, as well as practical experence to back it up as well, whether it be from the farm, to the shop, to college, to the tailgate of my truck. I know I haven't seen everything, but I've seen enough to know what I'm talking about.

I've done a little bit of everything in my time, from putting a 6" lift on a S-10, to changing a fuel pump on a John Deere 4230 tractor, to changing a rearend in an Explorer, to rebuilding the deck lift on a Simplicity lawnmower, to building a 6 x 10 trailer from scratch for my High School a few years ago, and a lot more, too much to mention here. :dizzy:

ksss
01-25-2005, 03:30 AM
Albemarle lawn,

Damn they are a big truck. It sits "eye to eye" with the Pete. When I test drove it I thought it handled very similiar to my 3500. My wheel base is 194" so I am not as long as you are. Drove nice (not as smooth as my 3500) and the manuverability was very impressive for a truck of its size. I am hoping that once the bed is on it that the ride smooths out somewhat. It will be towing heavy so we'll see if it holds up. I thought the Allision 1000 was the only one available for the 45-5500 series trucks. I may be wrong. there wre some things I have issues with starting with the truck has no tow haul mode, and with that, no grade braking as with the 25-3500's. Also the engine is the new LLY motor, but only makes 520 ft/pounds of torque compared to 605 in the 05 25-3500's. The Edge box is not compatible with the 45-5500 (so says the GMC dealer). So I am hoping the lower gear ratio 5:13 (which will be offset somewhat by the 19.5" tires) will make up for a lack of torque.

Small Timer,
I am sure your not a kid. I hope you get a degree in mech. engineering and go to work for CAT and fix that MTL (I am only kidding Uniscaper). I mean no disrespect.