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packerbacker
01-04-2005, 01:50 PM
Ill say one thing and then you guys can get on with your little worlds thinking that you all do the right thing.


I used to come here a while back and the reason i left was because all the "good old boys " here seem to think that they have the best way to do everything and when someone comes along and questions them they immediatly band together label the person as a troublemaker and attack them.

You guys have alot to learn how being more accepting of others and how they do things.

You sit around and call people lowballers and scrubs when they take your business by underbidding you a couple bucks. Well guess what folks!?! Every single time you use a coupon for a pizza or buy a item on sale you are giving into a lowballer and that makes you JUST AS GUILTY.

And for that matter what gives any of you the right to say what a lowballer is? Just because you have set your own standard whats to say that any of us have to agree with you and what you think the "norm" should be?

This is a great site to learn from and ill continue to come here and read it like i did when i left the first time but apparently some of you have judged me without ever knowing me so i will stop responding to people who are looking for different ideas.

Have a good 2005 and good luck to everyone.

bobbygedd
01-04-2005, 02:16 PM
i, for one, enjoy your company, and do not judge you as a human being. i think your business practices are a bit wacked, but i'm sure you're a good guy. are we not all but men?

TClawn
01-04-2005, 02:22 PM
using a coupon or buying a sale item is NOT the same. the whole Idea behind the sale is to get you into there store where you might make an impulse purchase. if you go to the pizza store and buy a large pizza with the coupon, you may also want to get some pizza sticks, buffalo wings or some other item that is not on sale.

IMO, it's the same as us offering a 10 percent discount on spring cleanups if they sign up for lawn care by february.

a lowballer is some one who knowingly REDUCES the price of lawn care and other services to get more business.

a lowballer hurts our industry. a sale does not.

btw, your post was not funny.

Lux Lawn
01-04-2005, 02:35 PM
I agree with TCLAWN a coupon gets you in the store and most of the time you will buy more then one item.Lowballing is someone bringing down the price's for everybody in this field and that is what is happening around here right now with snowplowing.

I guess there really is no "norm" as you put it if you want to work for less it should be up to you or the individual but it does hurt everybody and bring the price's down,it's great for the customers that are not loyal to one contractor and switch year after year to save a couple of bucks.I know the lawns around here we could be getting more for them but this is the case here as it is everywhere.

Sir mowsalot
01-04-2005, 02:35 PM
packerbacker,
I agree with you. Great site to learn things if your doing a search on something. But a horrible site if you want to discuss things, becuase to many idiots that try to lift themselves up by bringing others down. You see it all boils down to a self esteem issue. For whatever reason some on here have developed issues of inferiorority complexes and this is how they react to it. I found that most of the time these same people who are so arrogant and obnoxious on this site are scared little boys in real life who would never dare tell someone some of the things they say on here. Dime a dozen

mcclureandson
01-04-2005, 02:44 PM
Why ask for input if you know all the answers??? Go ahead, come to my area and offer services at half my rate...I might lose 5-6 customers, and they'd be the ones I enjoy servicing the least! Hell, you can have every price shopping tightwad in town...that's your marketing strategy, right? A 'scrub' or 'lowballer' is more than the lowest priced company around...they're anyone looking for the quickest way to cut corners on two very important aspects of our industry - QUALITY and INTEGRITY!!! Don't ask me to believe you can offer my level of service at a substantially lower price...Don't ask me to believe the majority of my customer base will switch to ANOTHER new guy at the drop of a hat...and Don't expect established, profitable lawn companies to endorse your ill-conceived business plan...good luck clearing half what the rest of us are making.

splatz100
01-04-2005, 02:56 PM
I guess "You get what you pay for"

HOOLIE
01-04-2005, 02:59 PM
An interesting point regarding the pizza- as business owners we expect every customer to go with us regardless of price, we expect them to value our service to the point where money is no object...but we as consumers tend to do like everyone else, that is, look for the lowest price.

Actually, I almost always order from the same pizza joint, regardless of coupons.

mcclureandson
01-04-2005, 03:03 PM
I tend to eat and shop at businesses where the QAULITY and level of SERVICE are high...it's like, oh say a LAWN SERVICE you get what you pay for!!! Besides, who wants a referral based on how low your prices are? The people that call me talk quality first and price second...

packerbacker
01-04-2005, 03:15 PM
using a coupon or buying a sale item is NOT the same. the whole Idea behind the sale is to get you into there store where you might make an impulse purchase. if you go to the pizza store and buy a large pizza with the coupon, you may also want to get some pizza sticks, buffalo wings or some other item that is not on sale.

IMO, it's the same as us offering a 10 percent discount on spring cleanups if they sign up for lawn care by february.

a lowballer is some one who knowingly REDUCES the price of lawn care and other services to get more business.

a lowballer hurts our industry. a sale does not.

btw, your post was not funny.




And all this time i thought thats why store has sales! I thought it was to get more business from people! Stupid me!

TClawn
01-04-2005, 03:39 PM
packerbacker, your right, the Idea of a sale is to get people in the store so that they will buy the sale item, but on the way they will make impulse purchases AT FULL PRICE, even if you only buy one item (you'll probably buy 2 or 3 items) that was not on sale they made back their money on that sale.

Tn Lawn Man
01-04-2005, 03:41 PM
I tend to eat and shop at businesses where the QAULITY and level of SERVICE are high...it's like, oh say a LAWN SERVICE you get what you pay for!!! Besides, who wants a referral based on how low your prices are? The people that call me talk quality first and price second...


In my area of the world we have various retail establishments.

Low end: Dollar General Store, Big Lots etc....

These guys provide cheap products at cheap prices....I rarely shop there because so much of their merchandise is so inferior it is just not worth buying.


Middle:K-Mart, Walmart, Target etc....

These guy have a variety of cheaply made stuff as well as quality stuff. You just have to shop the right deal/brand etc...

Higher End: Macy's, Dilliards, Specialty Stores etc....

These usually have the higher quality goods, but you are going to pay for it.


LCO's are the same. You have your:

Jimmy Down the Blocks and Low Baller LCOs - The price is low and the quality is poor. They might be here at the end of the season. Then again they might not.

Average LCO - Some of these may provide quality work at a good price, others may not. You just have to shop for the right LCO

High End LCOs - They will do it all. Whatever you want, when you want, and how you want. But, it is going to cost you.


This is not much different than the rest of the business world.

buddhacj7
01-04-2005, 03:47 PM
There is Lowballing and there is Competition. Lowballing is charging $10 a lawn and competition is just a little under the going rate. If someone has a pushmower and a rake than they can charge whatever they want because of low overhead and they should. If you have 5 ztr's and a crew you will get ticked off at those guys because you cant afford to charge that little. I feel like that if you do quality work charge whatever you are comfortable with and let the "Lowballers" do the same. If they can afford, let them have it. It is a free country!
p.s. I am not a lowballer! LOL

packerbacker
01-04-2005, 03:48 PM
The point im making is all stores KNOWINGLY lower their prices to beat the competition. Its how people make money. This is a cutthroat business and companies come and go every year. Some LCOs have to do whatever they can to make a living. Why do people here constantly rip them apart for wanting to make a living?

When my grandparents got here from Ireland they scraped and scratched to make every penny they had and if it meant cutting corners then they did it. Hell , everyone who came to this country lowballed to make it.

You guys cant judge other people because i can say with 99% certainity that if someone approached you to do a big job for a substanial amount of money and they said some guy had quoted them $20,000 and they wanted to know if you could do it $19,500, you would take the job in a heartbeat.

The name of the game is making money. PLain and simple.

packerbacker
01-04-2005, 03:49 PM
There is Lowballing and there is Competition. Lowballing is charging $10 a lawn and competition is just a little under the going rate. If someone has a pushmower and a rake than they can charge whatever they want because of low overhead and they should. If you have 5 ztr's and a crew you will get ticked off at those guys because you cant afford to charge that little. I feel like that if you do quality work charge whatever you are comfortable with and let the "Lowballers" do the same. If they can afford, let them have it. It is a free country!
p.s. I am not a lowballer! LOL





Your right! The problem is most people here cant tell the difference between lowballing and being competetive and they rip a guy just because he charges a couple dollars less.

JimLewis
01-04-2005, 03:49 PM
No, what's hillarious is how much of a wimp you are. I came to Lawnsite over 5 years ago and like you I noticed some problems. But instead of leaving with my tail between my legs and crying about "Oh, you guys are such brutes and think you know everything...." I decided to stick around and see if I could change things. Maybe, eventually, people would come to respect my opinion and I could counteract some of the arrogant know-it-all people and offer a differing opinion sometimes.

If you really had any guts you would have stuck around and tried to help make this place a better place. But I guess some people can't take the heat. So I guess you left the kitchen. :waving:

Mo Green
01-04-2005, 03:50 PM
Some people go to stores that are having sales, and buy only sale items because they can't afford the full price items. The stores still make alot of money on those sale items.

The bigger point here is that we live and operate in a CAPITALIST SOCIETY..... the largest FREE MARKET ECONOMY in the world. Lowering prices to gain revenue or to become competitive is the American way. If you don't like it, move to a Socialist economy, such as Canada, and open your business there, and let the government tell you what you can charge.


Your business will become what YOU make it. Stop wining about how someone else is bringing your business down. Perhaps YOU are not doing enough to lift it up.

packerbacker
01-04-2005, 03:54 PM
No, what's hillarious is how much of a wimp you are. I came to Lawnsite over 5 years ago and like you I noticed some problems. But instead of leaving with my tail between my legs and crying about "Oh, you guys are such brutes and think you know everything...." I decided to stick around and see if I could change things. Maybe, eventually, people would come to respect my opinion and I could counteract some of the arrogant know-it-all people and offer a differing opinion sometimes.

If you really had any guts you would have stuck around and tried to help make this place a better place. But I guess some people can't take the heat. So I guess you left the kitchen. :waving:





ROFLMAO, and the name calling continues!

DSIM
01-04-2005, 03:58 PM
Some people go to stores that are having sales, and buy only sale items because they can't afford the full price items. The stores still make alot of money on those sale items.

The bigger point here is that we live and operate in a CAPITALIST SOCIETY..... the largest FREE MARKET ECONOMY in the world. Lowering prices to gain revenue or to become competitive is the American way. If you don't like it, move to a Socialist economy, such as Canada, and open your business there, and let the government tell you what you can charge.


Your business will become what YOU make it. Stop wining about how someone else is bringing your business down. Perhaps YOU are not doing enough to lift it up.

I agree! If you cant make a living in what you are doing then its you who needs to change, not everybody else.

packerbacker
01-04-2005, 04:03 PM
I agree! If you cant make a living in what you are doing then its you who needs to change, not everybody else.






That would be way to easy ;)

They would rather sit here and complain then actually have to make adjustments to what they are doing.

Its always easier to blame somene else for their misfortunes then to actually take the blame themselves. Its always the others persons fault.

Smalltimer1
01-04-2005, 04:18 PM
Most people are honest and do what they can to work such things out. Some are out to make quick money. Some do it because they love it. I am in it because it pays better than the steakhouse job I had over the summer. I charge under what the big guys charge, but I do a quality job, and I make sure the customer is happy before I leave. I do not have much overhead, I do not have a shop/base/HQ building or employees to pay. All I have is the carport to keep the mowers under and my little Leonard building for the trimmers and blowers and hand tools. I start in the morning by hitting the gas station, filling my cans, mixing some fresh 2 cycle gas, checking oil in the mowers, grease, air pressure, and then its off to work. I follow the values and virtues that my grandparents followed, provide a good service at a reasonable price.

Up North
01-04-2005, 04:21 PM
Packerbacker,
I agree that the name calling, finger pointing, etc. that goes on is a bit childish and not needed here. But just like being successful in business you need to look beyond some things. This is still a place to learn and gather ideas within the green industry, and yes some guys will throw out some crap that is off the wall or whatever, but that's up to you to decide whether it applies to your business or not. Each member runs their business differently, and for those that feel the way they operate is the one and only way to do it are way off base. Mr. Lewis has built a nice business for himself. Mr. Gedd has built a nice business for himself. Did they do it the same way? No. They are two complete different people and operate differently. I'm sure there are some similarities in their operations as well, but for the most part they are in different parts of the country and therefore have to operate differently.

As for lowballers...same deal. Take some of the pricing for services in Florida, they would be lowball compared to most any other area but the market is different there. Again, we have to remember that each case is different depending on area, operation, etc. Look at "Just Mow It" in Dallas, he charges less because they use all 21 push mowers, has like over a 1000 customers or whatever, very low overhead, and low price is their deal, that's what gets them the business. Can you call him a lowballer? Not really as that is his gig.

I for one have learned a lot in my first year of the business and this site and the members deserve a lot of the credit for getting me through that first year. But it was up to me to use what I felt would work in my business and what wouldn't. It was also up to me whether I wanted to get involved in some heated issues or not, and have learned to steer clear of it. After all, I can click or not click on any thread I choose, if it looks like a finger pointing, name calling deal...I go right past it. I got caught on this one because I thought it was going to be something funny as the caption was "this is HILARIOUS!"...trick is on me I guess.

Buck

packerbacker
01-04-2005, 04:26 PM
Good post and your probably right. I do choose to get involved in some of this because i find it unbelievable that some of the people here are so close minded and dense that they seem to think there is only 1 way to run a business and then when you try to talk to them they blow up on you. Oh well...

Tvov
01-04-2005, 04:31 PM
Obviously as usual I've missed something. This site is basically the same as when I first starting ghosting here. Was there some thread you got upset over?

I think this site is much better run and has better posters than other sites I've perused, and one I used to regularly post at. I've gotten lots of usefull info here, and hopefully have helped others.

Ths subject of lowballers and scrubs comes up every year, with all the same back and forth about them. So??

And, this thread is HILARIOUS!! :dizzy:

Mo Green
01-04-2005, 04:38 PM
Opinions are like butt cracks, everyone has one. Thats OK, no... that's great. The problem arises when certain people, or know-it-alls, show their ignorance by trying to shove their opinions down everyone's throat. Saying that others are wrong if they don't agree with them. That's what starts all of the arguments. Like Up North said, try to steer clear of those individuals.

nitrotim
01-04-2005, 04:39 PM
When my grandparents got here from Ireland they scraped and scratched to make every penny they had and if it meant cutting corners then they did it. Hell , everyone who came to this country lowballed to make it.


The name of the game is making money. PLain and simple.

When My Grandparents came here from italy they brought their skill and workmanship with them. No matter what they charged or bartered for they never cut corners and provided quality workmanship. Eventually it dosen't matter that you may be a couple dollars cheaper. If the quality of work isn't there neither will you. Its your choice to charge less but you should not cut cornners because you cut price. Your right its about making money. How much will you make if you cut price and quality. Maybe more in the short term but not if you are in it for the long haul.

ztoro
01-04-2005, 05:25 PM
Opinions are like butt cracks, everyone has one.


and they all stink as well.....

bobbygedd
01-04-2005, 05:27 PM
and they all stink as well.....
not mine.............

locutus
01-04-2005, 06:01 PM
There is a place for low cost, bare-bones lawncare in this industry. I, like a previous reply stated, think that these types of operators keep me from having to deal with people that I'd rather not deal with.

PR Fect
01-04-2005, 07:34 PM
Packerbacker, I see nothing on this site other than strong opinions. Or at least thats the way I take them. I know I do not know everything and I also know no one else does either. If a large majority disagree with me on a post, I except that I may be wrong. Maybe you take this too serious. You think to much of your self and too little of others. Always remember, you can greatly improve your quality of life by lowering your expect ions.

Randy Scott
01-04-2005, 07:51 PM
You guys cant judge other people because i can say with 99% certainity that if someone approached you to do a big job for a substanial amount of money and they said some guy had quoted them $20,000 and they wanted to know if you could do it $19,500, you would take the job in a heartbeat.


Yeah, well I guess I'm that 1% that wouldn't take the job for $500 less. I'd be the one selling our job for $500 more and clearly explaining to them why they would want to hire us for that additional $500. I would spend the time to SELL our company and what we have to offer over the other company. If a person is spending $20K on a project, they are going to listen to what you have to say and appreciate your honesty and professionalism to stand your ground. If their decision is clearly going to be made over that $500 difference, I'd rather not even do it because I know what is coming down the road. A PITA customer. Now is when you have to know how to close a deal. Those that don't, just give up that $500 and blame others.

That's the problem with most of you, you back down from customers. You don't have the personal skills or knowledge to sell yourself over the next guy. It's easier for you to just lay down and give up the $500.

Your other alternative is to renegotiate the job and see if there is something you can eliminate or reduce to knock some pricing down a little. Feel the customer out a little. See what YOU can do to get the job yet still get your price. This sh!t isn't rocket science for god-sake.

If all else fails, be a professional, have confidence in yourself and your company, and walk away.

jim dailey
01-04-2005, 08:03 PM
Packerbacker, I see nothing on this site other than strong opinions. Or at least thats the way I take them. I know I do not know everything and I also know no one else does either. If a large majority disagree with me on a post, I except that I may be wrong. Maybe you take this too serious. You think to much of your self and too little of others. Always remember, you can greatly improve your quality of life by lowering your expect ions.

WOW, double-check your last 2 sentences. Is that what you meant to say? Maybe you just mis-typed something. NOT BASHING...just re-read them...JIM.

lawnworker
01-04-2005, 08:26 PM
This whole thread is garbage.

muddstopper
01-04-2005, 09:20 PM
The point im making is all stores KNOWINGLY lower their prices to beat the competition. Its how people make money. This is a cutthroat business and companies come and go every year. Some LCOs have to do whatever they can to make a living. Why do people here constantly rip them apart for wanting to make a living?
.

Lets put this into another perspective. True stores do lower there prices to beat the competition. And when the stores cant lower there prices any more they look for cheaper sources of products. When the manufacturers can produce the products any cheaper the start looking for cheaper places to make their product. Then they move their factories to China or somewhere else over seas. When the factories move, the jobs go with it. Now all the workers are unemployed. Competion or lowballing. The results are the same. If you let the customer drive you down in price you force another lco to lower their prices. In order to compete and still make a living, the LCO owner is forced to reduce his cost. Since he doesnt have much control over the cost of equipment or fuel or insurance and such, the only way he can reduce his costs is to reduce his labor. So now the LCO has to hire foriegn help. This in turn puts an American out of work. The wages paid to the foriegners is shipped back to their home country to support their families or to bring more of them over here. Here they will take jobs for less wages and again put more Americans out of work. When everyone is out of work they can no longer afford to pay as much for lawn care. But thats alright because there is always someone willing to work for less and pretty soon the LCO is out of business. And the cycle continues. Of course pretty soon the one owning the lawn service is a foriegner and he has plenty of cheap labor available to him thru all his nephews and cousins and inlaws that he brought here from Mexico.

rodfather
01-04-2005, 09:23 PM
This whole thread is garbage.

It was from the very beginning...I just sat back and wanted to see where it would go..downhill as I imagined.

Sir mowsalot
01-04-2005, 09:29 PM
Lets put this into another perspective. True stores do lower there prices to beat the competition. And when the stores cant lower there prices any more they look for cheaper sources of products. When the manufacturers can produce the products any cheaper the start looking for cheaper places to make their product. Then they move their factories to China or somewhere else over seas. When the factories move, the jobs go with it. Now all the workers are unemployed. Competion or lowballing. The results are the same. If you let the customer drive you down in price you force another lco to lower their prices. In order to compete and still make a living, the LCO owner is forced to reduce his cost. Since he doesnt have much control over the cost of equipment or fuel or insurance and such, the only way he can reduce his costs is to reduce his labor. So now the LCO has to hire foriegn help. This in turn puts an American out of work. The wages paid to the foriegners is shipped back to their home country to support their families or to bring more of them over here. Here they will take jobs for less wages and again put more Americans out of work. When everyone is out of work they can no longer afford to pay as much for lawn care. But thats alright because there is always someone willing to work for less and pretty soon the LCO is out of business. And the cycle continues. Of course pretty soon the one owning the lawn service is a foriegner and he has plenty of cheap labor available to him thru all his nephews and cousins and inlaws that he brought here from Mexico.

Ok, and as you say, the jobs go overseas which means the other countries create jobs, and therefore the foriegners gain plenty of job oppurtunities in their own country, and dont need to come here, which in turn means less competition from foreigners and then cant drive the wages down from hiring cheaper illegals. After awhile they will have even more job oppurtunities in their own coutries as time goes on, because as jobs move over their, then the work force grows, and those workers need to buy clothes, food, etc. which in turn opens up even more markets over there and hence more job opportunities, and then they will need their lawns mowed and i will be there. :D

muddstopper
01-05-2005, 12:12 AM
Ok, and as you say, the jobs go overseas which means the other countries create jobs, and therefore the foriegners gain plenty of job oppurtunities in their own country, and dont need to come here, which in turn means less competition from foreigners and then cant drive the wages down from hiring cheaper illegals. After awhile they will have even more job oppurtunities in their own coutries as time goes on, because as jobs move over their, then the work force grows, and those workers need to buy clothes, food, etc. which in turn opens up even more markets over there and hence more job opportunities, and then they will need their lawns mowed and i will be there. :D

I agree that eventually the job market and wages will improve overseas but,
Do you really want to move to China as you seem prepared to do according to your post? And when you get there how are you going to combat the LCO that undercuts your prices there?

The point of my post is/was, its alright to bid low on a job as long as your price is within your own cost and profit margin. Its when you start cutting prices just to get work that you start driving down the market as a whole. It stops being competition when you start doing work for less than or at your cost. Making wages can be done in a factory or working for someone else, making a profit and making wages is two different animals. If you are just making wages you are just maintaining your current finanancial situation, if you are making a profit you are improving your finanacial situation.

Smalltimer1
01-05-2005, 12:44 AM
Yeah, well I guess I'm that 1% that wouldn't take the job for $500 less. I'd be the one selling our job for $500 more and clearly explaining to them why they would want to hire us for that additional $500. I would spend the time to SELL our company and what we have to offer over the other company. If a person is spending $20K on a project, they are going to listen to what you have to say and appreciate your honesty and professionalism to stand your ground. If their decision is clearly going to be made over that $500 difference, I'd rather not even do it because I know what is coming down the road. A PITA customer. Now is when you have to know how to close a deal. Those that don't, just give up that $500 and blame others.

That's the problem with most of you, you back down from customers. You don't have the personal skills or knowledge to sell yourself over the next guy. It's easier for you to just lay down and give up the $500.

Your other alternative is to renegotiate the job and see if there is something you can eliminate or reduce to knock some pricing down a little. Feel the customer out a little. See what YOU can do to get the job yet still get your price. This sh!t isn't rocket science for god-sake.

I wish your approach would work, but in most cases its a lost cause to try to talk someone to your co. for $500 more. The other guy could offer the same services as you for $500 less, and you'd still lose out. "Selling" your company's service to them for $500 more could be interpreted as desperation by that potential customer, or you could be viewed as stingy and greedy for not trying to be competitive with your competition. The idea of renegotiation is the best I've heard yet. Come to a consensus with your customer, where they are happy with the price and what they're getting, and you're comfortable with what you're gonna make from it.

I've had to bite the bullet a couple times and cut for near nothing, due to extenuating circumstances, it wasn't fun, I didn't make all that good of money at the time, but it paid off because I built up a reputation for doing quality work no matter what I got out of it.

captaingreen
01-05-2005, 12:50 AM
This whole thread is garbage.
Yes,a steaming terd indeed.........

Duramax99
01-05-2005, 08:08 AM
Packer did you start this thread to get attention? Or was it so you could stir up a hornets nest. Like Jim Lewis said if its too hot stay out of the kitchen.

DGI
01-05-2005, 02:45 PM
IMO a lowballer is, beyond everything else, a person who simply doesn't value their own time. That is to say that they take all of their fixed expenses for any given job and take everything left as a wage. To them it's a profit but they are out there putting in their own time.

Carolina Cutter
01-05-2005, 03:34 PM
Ill say one thing and then you guys can get on with your little worlds thinking that you all do the right thing.


I used to come here a while back and the reason i left was because all the "good old boys " here seem to think that they have the best way to do everything and when someone comes along and questions them they immediatly band together label the person as a troublemaker and attack them.

You guys have alot to learn how being more accepting of others and how they do things.

You sit around and call people lowballers and scrubs when they take your business by underbidding you a couple bucks. Well guess what folks!?! Every single time you use a coupon for a pizza or buy a item on sale you are giving into a lowballer and that makes you JUST AS GUILTY.

And for that matter what gives any of you the right to say what a lowballer is? Just because you have set your own standard whats to say that any of us have to agree with you and what you think the "norm" should be?

This is a great site to learn from and ill continue to come here and read it like i did when i left the first time but apparently some of you have judged me without ever knowing me so i will stop responding to people who are looking for different ideas.

Have a good 2005 and good luck to everyone.


First of all........I am in no way judging you.

Now that is out of the way..........I read your post. You seem as though your feathers are ruffled. Don't know what that is about...don't have the time to dwell and find out. What I didn't like is the way YOU bashed the guys here who participate in the forum. You said you have already left one time and now you have returned and that you might leave again but you will continue to come here and read and learn. Coming here to read and learn is fine but please don't have the "it's my ball and I'll take it and go home" mentality. If you are going to be serious about being in business, whatever business it may be, you better grow some thicker skin because nobody's going to look out for you but you and if you can't take some redicule or bashing than you better turn in your business owner hat and go work for somebody else.

Like I said, don't know what your feathers are ruffled about, don't have the time to find out, and don't really care, but if you want to be a active participant here.....act like a professional and if you have a beef with someone take it private instead of whinning about it.

Oh yea..........here look, see my "good ole boy" membership card......LOL

Carolina Cutter
01-05-2005, 03:42 PM
That would be way to easy ;)

They would rather sit here and complain then actually have to make adjustments to what they are doing.

Its always easier to blame somene else for their misfortunes then to actually take the blame themselves. Its always the others persons fault.

From what I gather you are doing just what you are acusing others of doing in the above quote.

QUOTE: "Its always the other persons fault."

Richard Martin
01-05-2005, 05:54 PM
Like I said, don't know what your feathers are ruffled about,

Just do a search for lowballer and you'll see.

If it walks like a duck, if it looks like a duck and if it quacks like a duck then it must be a duck.

yrdandgardenhandyman
01-05-2005, 07:06 PM
To me, by this post, a lowballer is someone who deliberately under bids, knowing what the lowest bid is. Here's the clincher. If he underbids and still runs a legit bus. and makes enough money to operate and live, then I'm not sure he is a lowballer. If he doesn't know what the hell he's doing and underbids to the point that he is out of bus. in 3 months, then he IS a lowballer. The problem is that now you have his whole client base convinced that everyone else is ripping them off. The customer that uses lowballers could care less if you are legit, pay taxes or even if you stay alive. All they want is a cheap cut. One of my first customers even told me I was a sucker for turning all my receipts in to the IRS and the sales tax people. She said that then I could lower my price to her. I fired her.

Precision
01-05-2005, 08:29 PM
Starting a thread with a flame is kinda childish.

The bottom line is if you can't differentiate your service and why your price should be paid as stated then you will not win many bids unless you are low bidder.

Some time I am low bidder, hell sometimes I am the only bidder. But the point is, when I give a presentation I ask what the client is looking for first, then explain back to them in terms of what they want, how I am going to do it and do it well. I usually know before I am done if they bought into it or not. If they are giving me the I just want your price line, I tell them straight. I have no intention of being the cheapest. I have every intention of doing the best job. If you want the job done right call me back. If you are just going with low bid, I am wasting everyones time.

Pita at the bid only gets worse.

yrdandgardenhandyman
01-05-2005, 08:44 PM
Starting a thread with a flame is kinda childish.

The bottom line is if you can't differentiate your service and why your price should be paid as stated then you will not win many bids unless you are low bidder.

Some time I am low bidder, hell sometimes I am the only bidder. But the point is, when I give a presentation I ask what the client is looking for first, then explain back to them in terms of what they want, how I am going to do it and do it well. I usually know before I am done if they bought into it or not. If they are giving me the I just want your price line, I tell them straight. I have no intention of being the cheapest. I have every intention of doing the best job. If you want the job done right call me back. If you are just going with low bid, I am wasting everyones time.

Pita at the bid only gets worse.



Ditto on that.

CUTTING EDGE 03
01-05-2005, 10:36 PM
"Can't we all just get a lawn"

brucec32
01-06-2005, 09:26 PM
Ill say one thing and then you guys can get on with your little worlds thinking that you all do the right thing.


I used to come here a while back and the reason i left was because all the "good old boys " here seem to think that they have the best way to do everything and when someone comes along and questions them they immediatly band together label the person as a troublemaker and attack them.

You guys have alot to learn how being more accepting of others and how they do things.

You sit around and call people lowballers and scrubs when they take your business by underbidding you a couple bucks. Well guess what folks!?! Every single time you use a coupon for a pizza or buy a item on sale you are giving into a lowballer and that makes you JUST AS GUILTY.

And for that matter what gives any of you the right to say what a lowballer is? Just because you have set your own standard whats to say that any of us have to agree with you and what you think the "norm" should be?

This is a great site to learn from and ill continue to come here and read it like i did when i left the first time but apparently some of you have judged me without ever knowing me so i will stop responding to people who are looking for different ideas.

Have a good 2005 and good luck to everyone.

Try another analogy. Yours isn't cutting it unless you can answer yes to the following:

Does the pizza joint fail to pay payroll taxes to serve that cheaper pie?

Does the pizza joint hire illegal alien workers to serve that cheaper pie?

Does the pizza joint pick up the guy who is gonna make your pie that morning on the side of the road, since everybody knows pizza making is child's work and "anybody can do it"?

Does the pizza joint use substandard ovens and ingredients?

Does the pizza joint fail to carry required liablity and workers comp insurance?

Does the pizza joint pretend they know what they're doing, sign you up for a year's worth of pizza's, having never actually made a pizza before?

Do Pizza joints already have a reputation for lousy quality and uneducated operators that they are trying to toss off so their whole industry is seen in a better light? Do people sneer and assume you're a lowlife when they hear you run a pizza joint?

cleancutccl
01-06-2005, 11:02 PM
Lowballers take customers that are price shopping, and usually that same customer comes crawling back because they got horrible service. The only time I go for a sale or a coupon is when I know the quality of product is worth more than the sale price. Like if you see a brand name product at one store and again at another store for 10 dollars cheaper, you will buy the product for less money but equal value. This is not the same for lowballers, you pay less and get less.