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northmichigan
01-21-2005, 07:12 PM
i use my 1989 gmc 1500 to haul a dual axle 6x12 trailer with a single axle electric brake. i mostly haul 3000 to 4000 lbs. of payload. do you think that this is a safe rig? i'd like to up my truck size but not this season.
thanks for any response in advance!
mj

Triple L
01-21-2005, 07:33 PM
I pull 5000 with my 93 gm 1500 5.0 liter every day, I think 1500's can do quiet a bit of work. New 1500's can do something like 8000 pounds.

northmichigan
01-21-2005, 07:47 PM
I pull 5000 with my 93 gm 1500 5.0 liter every day, I think 1500's can do quiet a bit of work. New 1500's can do something like 8000 pounds.
i have the 350 engine.what kind of trailer do you haul? the reason i only haul 4000lbs. max is in michigan any rig over 10,000lbs. gvw needs a commercial liciense.
mj

Albemarle Lawn
01-22-2005, 01:20 AM
I had the identical setup years ago: a 1989 GMC C1500 truck with 12' trailer.

My gearing was 3.08:1 with a 4.3L V-6 engine. It was a dog, and nearly ruined the transmission. I swapped the gears for 4.10:1 and WOW like night and day it really woke that dog up.

You really need to be at 4.10:1 if you have a V6, or 3.73:1 for a V8.

Brakes, you are fine esp if you keep your trailer brakes in good working order.

Suspension, you are a little weak. You may want to "add a leaf" or get a JC Whitney set of heavier rear springs. Or, air shocks if you are on a beer budget.

Transmission cooler: helps on any truck, especially a small truck like a 1500.

You have the 700r4 transmission, if it is automatic. That trans has a very weak overdrive and lockup torque converter. You should avoid overdrive while towing, except maybe on long flat stretches of highway. Only engage overdrive over 60 MPH, and do not attempt to acclerate at all in overdrive.

For example, if you are cruising 60 in overdrive and want to go to 65, manually yank it into D3 first as you squeeze into the gas.

Be very careful towing with this trans its easy to smoke!

D Felix
01-22-2005, 10:28 AM
in michigan any rig over 10,000lbs. gvw needs a commercial liciense.You might want to double check that.

Here in IN, it's any single or combination with a wieght *rating* of 10,001 or more pounds. I believe this is based on federal DOT regulations. Makes no difference what the actual wieght is.

Unless you've got 1500 pound axles, you're over that 10,001 figure.



Dan

green814
01-23-2005, 09:48 PM
You do not need a commercial license unless your truck (vehicle only) has a gvwr of 10,001 lbs. or more, or if the gcwr (combined w/ trailer) of 26,001 lbs. or more.
Check it out on sec. of states site: http://www.michigan.gov/sos/0,1607,7-127--21609--,00.html
Thought you would like this info. :)
Just check your gear ratio, but as long as it is at least a 3.55 or so you should be ok. You may want to think about a tranny cooler if you don't have one. As far as the suspension, if the trailer is evenly loaded and the rear of the truck is still sagging, add some helper springs. You can get an add-a-leaf kit (need to split you factory leaf springs to add but cheaper) or helper springs which just bolt on but more money. I have been told the helper springs ride better empty because they don't "kick in" till you load the truck up.
My truck is a 2000 Chevy 1500 ecsb 4x4 4.8/auto and I pull a travel trailer that weighs just a little over 5000 lbs no problem. Wont win any races,but pulls no problem.
Hope this helps.
Chris

B&B Lndscpng & Lwn Srvc
01-23-2005, 10:55 PM
I use a 1996 GMC K1500 4x4 Z71 ext cab 5.7 v8 235,000 original miles. I pull a 6.5' x 18' trailer one brake axle. I added a weight distribution hitch and increased my towing limit to 10,000 lbs from 6,000 and 1,000 lbs tongue weight from 400 lbs. Been running this setup for 3 years now. Fixing to purchase a superlawntruck.

D Felix
01-24-2005, 12:21 AM
You do not need a commercial license unless your truckI'm sorry! I don't know why I missed that.:)

What I meant to say was that by INDOT regulations (and again, I assume these are based on federal regs) any single or combination with a wieght *rating* of 10,001 or more pounds needs to be registered with the DOT and display an assigned number, if the vehicle(s) in question is being used for commercial purposes.

Here, you don't need a CDL until the towing vehicle meets or exceeds 26,0001 GVWR, OR the GCVWR is 26,001 AND the towed vehicle has a GVWR of 10,001 lbs or more.

There was a thread in the landscape forum several months ago where a lot of this was discussed. Try a search, look for a thread titled "Trucks and trailers" or something similiar. I posted a few times, you can try searching under my name as well. Basically (as far as licensing) we figured out that each state is different as to the requirements. However, I'm fairly certain that the DOT number requirement is federally mandated.

When it doubt, ask the authorities!


Dan

northmichigan
01-25-2005, 06:55 PM
I had the identical setup years ago: a 1989 GMC C1500 truck with 12' trailer.
earing was 3.08:1 with a 4.3L V-6 engine. It was a dog, and nearly ruined the transmission. I swapped the gears for 4.10:1 and WOW like night and day it really woke that dog up.

You really need to be at 4.10:1 if you have a V6, or 3.73:1 for a V8.

Brakes, you are fine esp if you keep your trailer brakes in good working order.

Suspension, you are a little weak. You may want to "add a leaf" or get a JC Whitney set of heavier rear springs. Or, air shocks if you are on a beer budget.

Transmission cooler: helps on any truck, especially a small truck like a 1500.

You have the 700r4 transmission, if it is automatic. That trans has a very weak overdrive and lockup torque converter. You should avoid overdrive while towing, except maybe on long flat stretches of highway. Only engage overdrive over 60 MPH, and do not attempt to acclerate at all in overdrive.

For example, if you are cruising 60 in overdrive and want to go to 65, manually yank it into D3 first as you squeeze into the gas.

Be very careful towing with this trans its easy to smoke!
thanks for the advice. i have the v8 350 but it is slow on hills with a fully loaded trailer.
are you near u of richmond in 1975; now there is a fully landscaped campus.
mj

northmichigan
01-25-2005, 06:58 PM
You do not need a commercial license unless your truck (vehicle only) has a gvwr of 10,001 lbs. or more, or if the gcwr (combined w/ trailer) of 26,001 lbs. or more.
Check it out on sec. of states site: http://www.michigan.gov/sos/0,1607,7-127--21609--,00.html
Thought you would like this info. :)
Just check your gear ratio, but as long as it is at least a 3.55 or so you should be ok. You may want to think about a tranny cooler if you don't have one. As far as the suspension, if the trailer is evenly loaded and the rear of the truck is still sagging, add some helper springs. You can get an add-a-leaf kit (need to split you factory leaf springs to add but cheaper) or helper springs which just bolt on but more money. I have been told the helper springs ride better empty because they don't "kick in" till you load the truck up.
My truck is a 2000 Chevy 1500 ecsb 4x4 4.8/auto and I pull a travel trailer that weighs just a little over 5000 lbs no problem. Wont win any races,but pulls no problem.
Hope this helps.
Chris
thanks for the reply. you are saying that its the trucks rating that detrimines commercial licience not the actual load present when pulled over?
mj

green814
01-26-2005, 11:42 AM
N M
Yes, as long as I am understanding it correctly. If your vehicle is rated to haul more than 26,000 lbs. by itself (vehicle only) or 10,000 lbs. truck rating only & 26,000 lbs. combined rating (with trailer) you need a CDL. I would imagine your truck is not rated for GCWR for more than about 12,000 or 13,000 lbs. I don't know if you can get a ticket if you have overloaded your vehicle, so be careful on that. The "Boys in BLUE" may have a way of finding the weight rating for a vehicle they pulled over, who knows. If you find any other info about this keep us posted.
In response to what D Felix mentioned, I could not find any info about posting DOT numbers on vehicle or registering. The only thing I found was a placard for hauling hazardous materials. Gasoline is actually a hazardous materials. Due to the type of business we have, I don't know if we would have to do this even though we do not carry a lot of gas in cans.
Do you actually live in Traverse City or are you on the outskirts. It's hard to believe how much the area has grown.
Chris

jimslawns
01-26-2005, 12:00 PM
Generally you only have to be placarded if you are hauling 1K lbs. or more of product or explosives of any type.

green814
01-26-2005, 03:05 PM
Generally you only have to be placarded if you are hauling 1K lbs. or more of product or explosives of any type.
The DOT sites I was on I did not see a minimum amount. Thanks for the info.
Chris

D Felix
01-26-2005, 03:43 PM
http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=73460

Read that thread, that's the one I was referencing in an earlier post. There's a LOT of info there, pertaining to several states (I think including MI).

I'm not sure about the placard info, but there's a lot of loopholes, the easiest and most accurate way to find out is to CALL someone at the state DOT office and ask! It may take getting transferred to several people before you get the right one, but that's the best way to do it.


Dan

D Felix
01-26-2005, 04:45 PM
OK, I've found some more info...

This comes from the IN DOR Motor Carrier website: http://www.in.gov/dor/mcs/
Specifically the "Forms and Publications" section, the "Publication 401" link (http://www.in.gov/dor/mcs/pdf/pub401.pdf

Here's the skimview, I've added dots (........) where I've cut things out to shorten it. You should be able to get the important parts though, click on the link above for the whole thing.

"Guidelines for the Indiana US DOT Number and Marking Requirements

What is the Amended Law?
This publication addresses Indiana Code 8-2.1-24-18 and the adoption of numerous federal rules regarding United States Department of Transportation (US DOT) numbers and vehicle markings for intrastate carriers. In general, this means certain intrastate motor carriers now have to obtain a US DOT number and mark their motor vehicles. The US DOT number marking requirements complements a nationwide initiative to enhance motor carrier compliance and safety regulations.............

Who Does This Law Affect?
The law affects both private and for-hire intrastate carriers, who transport passengers or property when the vehicle:
-- Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating, or gross vehicle weight or gross combination weight of 4,536 kilograms (10,001 pounds) or more, whichever is greater..............

-- Is used in transporting material found by the Secretary of Transportation to be hazardous under 49 United States Code 5103 and transported in a quantity requiring placards under regulations prescribed by the Secretary of Transportation under 49 Code of Federal Regulations, subtitle B, chapter I, subchapter C.

How Soon Must My Vehicles Be Registered and Marked?
Immediately. The statutory marking requirements are already in effect; however, enforcement begins January 1, 2003 for all vehicles listed above.

Are There Any Exceptions to the Marking Requirements?
Yes. 49 CFR 390.3(g) excludes the following:
.........
-- The occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation nor in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise;...............

Will I Get a Separate US DOT Number for Each Vehicle?
No. One US DOT number will be assigned to the company or legal entity. You will use this same number for all of your vehicles................

What are the Vehicle Marking Requirements?
Indiana adopted federal marking requirements as defined at 49 CFR 390.21.
-Nature of the Marking
The marking must display the following information:
-- The name or trade name of the motor carrier operating the motor vehicle.
-- The motor carrier identification number preceded by the letters "USDOT", and with the "IN" suffix. Example: USDOT 123456 IN. If you are crossing state lines leave the "IN" off of your vehicle(s).

If the name marked on the vehicle is someone other than the operational carrier, you must add the above information, preceded by the words "operated by".

-Size, Shape, Color, and Location
The marking must:
-- Appear on both sides of the motor vehicle.
-- Be in letters and numbers that contrast sharply in color with the background on which the letters and numbers are placed.
-- Be readily legible, during daylight hours, from a distance of 50 feet while the vehicle is stationary.

The marking must always be maintained in this condition.

-Construction and Durability
You may paint the marking on the motor vehicle, use decals, or it may be displayed on a removable device, if the device meets the above requirements..........."

Again, each state will have different requirements and fees, but they should ALL be based on federal regs like Indiana's is. Here in IN, it's a $10 fee to get the numbers. I'd hate to know what the fine is if you don't have the numbers displayed.

HTH.


Dan

northmichigan
01-26-2005, 10:21 PM
N M
Yes, as long as I am understanding it correctly. If your vehicle is rated to haul more than 26,000 lbs. by itself (vehicle only) or 10,000 lbs. truck rating only & 26,000 lbs. combined rating (with trailer) you need a CDL. I would imagine your truck is not rated for GCWR for more than about 12,000 or 13,000 lbs. I don't know if you can get a ticket if you have overloaded your vehicle, so be careful on that. The "Boys in BLUE" may have a way of finding the weight rating for a vehicle they pulled over, who knows. If you find any other info about this keep us posted.
In response to what D Felix mentioned, I could not find any info about posting DOT numbers on vehicle or registering. The only thing I found was a placard for hauling hazardous materials. Gasoline is actually a hazardous materials. Due to the type of business we have, I don't know if we would have to do this even though we do not carry a lot of gas in cans.
Do you actually live in Traverse City or are you on the outskirts. It's hard to believe how much the area has grown.
Chris
thanks for the reply chris. i live on the outskirts of town about four miles.town has grown but not fast enough to keep up with the number of landscape construction companies; there must be 60 of them in the phone book!!! whats your area like for work?
mj

northmichigan
01-26-2005, 10:27 PM
OK, I've found some more info...

This comes from the IN DOR Motor Carrier website: http://www.in.gov/dor/mcs/
Specifically the "Forms and Publications" section, the "Publication 401" link (http://www.in.gov/dor/mcs/pdf/pub401.pdf

Here's the skimview, I've added dots (........) where I've cut things out to shorten it. You should be able to get the important parts though, click on the link above for the whole thing.

"Guidelines for the Indiana US DOT Number and Marking Requirements

What is the Amended Law?
This publication addresses Indiana Code 8-2.1-24-18 and the adoption of numerous federal rules regarding United States Department of Transportation (US DOT) numbers and vehicle markings for intrastate carriers. In general, this means certain intrastate motor carriers now have to obtain a US DOT number and mark their motor vehicles. The US DOT number marking requirements complements a nationwide initiative to enhance motor carrier compliance and safety regulations.............

Who Does This Law Affect?
The law affects both private and for-hire intrastate carriers, who transport passengers or property when the vehicle:
-- Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating, or gross vehicle weight or gross combination weight of 4,536 kilograms (10,001 pounds) or more, whichever is greater..............

-- Is used in transporting material found by the Secretary of Transportation to be hazardous under 49 United States Code 5103 and transported in a quantity requiring placards under regulations prescribed by the Secretary of Transportation under 49 Code of Federal Regulations, subtitle B, chapter I, subchapter C.

How Soon Must My Vehicles Be Registered and Marked?
Immediately. The statutory marking requirements are already in effect; however, enforcement begins January 1, 2003 for all vehicles listed above.

Are There Any Exceptions to the Marking Requirements?
Yes. 49 CFR 390.3(g) excludes the following:
.........
-- The occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation nor in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise;...............

Will I Get a Separate US DOT Number for Each Vehicle?
No. One US DOT number will be assigned to the company or legal entity. You will use this same number for all of your vehicles................

What are the Vehicle Marking Requirements?
Indiana adopted federal marking requirements as defined at 49 CFR 390.21.
-Nature of the Marking
The marking must display the following information:
-- The name or trade name of the motor carrier operating the motor vehicle.
-- The motor carrier identification number preceded by the letters "USDOT", and with the "IN" suffix. Example: USDOT 123456 IN. If you are crossing state lines leave the "IN" off of your vehicle(s).

If the name marked on the vehicle is someone other than the operational carrier, you must add the above information, preceded by the words "operated by".

-Size, Shape, Color, and Location
The marking must:
-- Appear on both sides of the motor vehicle.
-- Be in letters and numbers that contrast sharply in color with the background on which the letters and numbers are placed.
-- Be readily legible, during daylight hours, from a distance of 50 feet while the vehicle is stationary.

The marking must always be maintained in this condition.

-Construction and Durability
You may paint the marking on the motor vehicle, use decals, or it may be displayed on a removable device, if the device meets the above requirements..........."

Again, each state will have different requirements and fees, but they should ALL be based on federal regs like Indiana's is. Here in IN, it's a $10 fee to get the numbers. I'd hate to know what the fine is if you don't have the numbers displayed.

HTH.


Dan
thanks for the timely information. the 10,000lbs.i was refering to originally was the weight of my truck,trailer, and a 4,000lbs. load.that would equal the 10,000lbs. and would not require a cdl.
mj

D Felix
01-27-2005, 10:09 AM
You are correct; you don't need a CDL. Or even a chauffer's license if you were in IN.

HOWEVER, you do need DOT numbers. The Indiana law is based on the federal regs, and states can only make their laws stricter, not looser. I would guess that your 1/2 ton has a GVWR of roughly 6000 lbs, and if you are pulling a tandem axle trailer, most likely it's rated at 7k, right? Even if it's a tandem snowmobile trailer rated at 4k (I've got a feeling it's not), you're still right at that 10,001 pound mark.

Again, it's not the actual load that matters, it's what the combination is rated for. Call your local DOT enforcement division and find out what you need. Those are the guys that can really turn a decent day into the worst one in recent memory!


Dan

green814
01-27-2005, 02:12 PM
MJ
My area has quite a bit of competition, but homes are going up all the time.
Never have counted exactly how many are listed, but you see a number on the road. As far as TC, I know that I had been up there in '89 when my grandparents stil lived outside of Mancelona, but was not back till fall of '96. I couldn't believe how much it grew. My wife & I have talked about moving to the area, but if we do it probably wouldn't be for a few years minimum. About 2 1/2 years ago we almost purchased 20 acres just north of kalkaska. We look back & wonder if we should have. Oh well, if & when we move north we hope to find a fair amount of land. Only time will tell.
Chris

northmichigan
01-28-2005, 06:39 PM
MJ
My area has quite a bit of competition, but homes are going up all the time.
Never have counted exactly how many are listed, but you see a number on the road. As far as TC, I know that I had been up there in '89 when my grandparents stil lived outside of Mancelona, but was not back till fall of '96. I couldn't believe how much it grew. My wife & I have talked about moving to the area, but if we do it probably wouldn't be for a few years minimum. About 2 1/2 years ago we almost purchased 20 acres just north of kalkaska. We look back & wonder if we should have. Oh well, if & when we move north we hope to find a fair amount of land. Only time will tell.
Chris
chris
land prices have really gone up here since the war started [9/11] with many city people buying land all over northern michigan. the prices probably won't go down any time soon; so if you find any snap it up.
mike

Eric 1
01-29-2005, 08:04 PM
Back to the original question....
I have a 1992 chevy 1500 5.7 5spd 4x4 with 3:73 gears. I pull a 6.5x16 trailer with brakes all the time. i tow cars, tractors, even a small skid steer with this truck. I tow about 200 miles a week in the summer. I have yet to find anything (with in reason) that this truck would not tow. I can drive at 55 mph towing a 2500 lbs trailer in 4th gear and climb most hills and never lose more than 5mph. most of the time it holds or even gains in speed. These are really good trucks.