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Fareway Lawncare
01-23-2005, 10:37 PM
Looking to Save a Few Bucks or Looking for a "Great Deal" on a Mower ?.... beware that you May be supporting the Rise of the World's Next Economic Super Power....Cheap Labour Can't be Beat...Especially by a Spoiled North American Population.

http://www.mowersulky.com/factory_tour.htm

GTLC
01-23-2005, 10:43 PM
I strongly agree...that's exactly why I drive an American SUV :)

stumper1620
01-23-2005, 10:46 PM
Looking to Save a Few Bucks or Looking for a "Great Deal" on a Mower ?.... beware that you May be supporting the Rise of the World's Next Economic Super Power....Cheap Labour Can't be Beat...Especially by a Spoiled North American Population.

http://www.mowersulky.com/factory_tour.htm
yup,
we are funding the communist way too much.
i watch what i buy very carefully, see my explosion on the post for boots http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=93672

GTLC
01-23-2005, 10:55 PM
Stumper you made a great point on outsourcing....Many people don't realize that when the buy something made in a third-world country, they are just taking away jobs from their fellow American. :cry:

Carolina Cutter
01-23-2005, 10:56 PM
Not trying to be critical...just to bring awareness.....anbody own a tv or a computer......hmmmmm.......most electronic car parts......A LOT of Harley parts....most everything you buy at Wal-Mart or Target or Kmart...etc...etc


I agree though....we need to bring our jobs back home....it is way outta control

GTLC
01-23-2005, 10:59 PM
Yes, unfortunately as a consumer its hard to find something mass-produced that is actually made in America...I hope alot of people watch the show "Made in America" on the travel channel.

Carolina Cutter
01-23-2005, 11:01 PM
Thats kinda interesting.....watchin a show called "made in America" on something made in Korea, China or wherevver else......LOL

stumper1620
01-23-2005, 11:05 PM
Not trying to be critical...just to bring awareness.....anbody own a tv or a computer......hmmmmm.......most electronic car parts......A LOT of Harley parts....most everything you buy at Wal-Mart or Target or Kmart...etc...etc


I agree though....we need to bring our jobs back home....it is way outta control
can't stop living but, i'm not going to be purchusing anything built out of north america ( i included canada ) if i can help it, its not the company owner that matters its where its made. if its availible from here i don't care if it cost twice as much I AM SUPPORTING THE AMERICAN/CANADIAN WORKERS.
not some slant eyes half a world away. wally world is a discrase to the american work force along with awhole bunch more. bissel took manufaturing to mexico, fridgidare, lifesavers is in canada now instead of holland mi. dodges, fords and gms come from all over the only real american built is the so called imports.

Carolina Cutter
01-23-2005, 11:07 PM
Yep...we Americans sent all that work to Mexico and they are trying like hell to get here.....seems as though the work would be enough

K c m
01-23-2005, 11:08 PM
Stumper you made a great point on outsourcing....Many people don't realize that when the buy something made in a third-world country, they are just taking away jobs from their fellow American. :cry:

Take care of our own. :)

stumper1620
01-23-2005, 11:08 PM
which one is American made? swiss miss or carnation hot cocoa

stumper1620
01-23-2005, 11:13 PM
which one is American made? swiss miss or carnation hot cocoa


swiss miss is american made.
carnation comes from sweden
amazing ain't it. :D :confused:

stumper1620
01-23-2005, 11:17 PM
I strongly agree...that's exactly why I drive an American SUV :)
ain't it great to know the one thing they don't outsource is the truck lines. :cool2:
thats because the automakers can't afford to screw up the truck lines with cheap labor.

Fareway Lawncare
01-23-2005, 11:19 PM
These mowers use some of the same components as quality units but they lack any design finesse and they cut corners...Assembled in China...You Simply Can Not beat their Labour Rates....One Main reason they're on the Verge of Becoming the World's Next Economic Big Boy.

Now, if they put their Minds to designing Quality Units, instead of cheap knock-offs, they'll secure even More of the Market....& We're Sunk. China's the World's Wal-Mart.

http://www.mowersulky.com/Bradley_Mowers.htm

GTLC
01-23-2005, 11:20 PM
You couldn't pay me to drive a foreign-made truck. I just prefer to support my fellow American citizens :rolleyes: :waving:

richard coffman
01-23-2005, 11:29 PM
i hate the idea of big american companies going to other country's like mexico and china. it's hard to tell where the american dollar goes anymore. when i pay for car parts or lawn mower equipment, who am i really giving my money too? i liked it back in the old days when there we're small company's doing big things for there customer. now, it's more like which oversized corporation am i going to give my hard earned dollar to today?? what ever happened to the slogan "America, The land of Oportunity"?? just my 2 cents....

Respectfully,

Richard/Owner :realmad: :realmad: :realmad:

stumper1620
01-23-2005, 11:33 PM
These mowers use some of the same components as quality units but they lack any design finesse and they cut corners...Assembled in China...You Simply Can Not beat their Labour Rates....One Main reason they're on the Verge of Becoming the World's Next Economic Big Boy.

Now, if they put their Minds to designing Quality Units, instead of cheap knock-offs, they'll secure even More of the Market....& We're Sunk. China's the World's Wal-Mart.

http://www.mowersulky.com/Bradley_Mowers.htm

exactly, and so long as the workers are under communist rule the economy will never equilize, they will always be cheaper because their workers will never dare demand more pay.
thing is when you look at stuff that has been outsourced by American companies the price is only a small difference from non outsourced products.
so who is making out like a fat rat the CEOS AND THE OWNERS.

snippy
01-24-2005, 01:09 AM
Don't worry guys, pretty soon those cashed up chinkies are all going to want SUV's, Harlies, computers etc ... and other US made goods and I'm sure there'll be a maccas on every street corner in Bejing before too long with all those royalties flowing back to the USA.

ejd
01-24-2005, 02:00 AM
In One Aspect, I Understand The Keep Jobs Here Thing, But This Is A Whole New World And Is Changing Every Day. But The Flip Side Is That There Are Far Too Many People In These United States The Demand Cheaper Priced Products To Put An End To Buying From Over Seas. Also There Are Tons Of Businesses Here That Are Started By The Sale And Distribution Of All Those Products. Not To Mention Spare Parts And Repairs. Americans Are Still Being Employed, Just In Different Ways. Other Countries Want Our Products, Just As We Want Theirs. Pure Global Economics. We Just Need To Remain Competitive!

afftandem
01-24-2005, 03:04 AM
You couldn't pay me to drive a foreign-made truck. I just prefer to support my fellow American citizens :rolleyes: :waving:

Business Major in college... have studied and wrote on outsourcing... roughly 13% of all american autos (even trucks) are foreign (made) parts.

As far as the competition in trucks go, America hasnt had that much competition... Last yr was the 1st year Nissan offered a full size truck (Titan) and Toyota for the past few yrs with the Tundra... the t100 was close but not like the tundra...Good trucks, and the japanese have been good to put assembly plants in america.. the japanese do the same and outsource their jobs to 3rd world countries to keep costs down..

It is a double edged sword though, fully made in Japan or fully made in U.S. and take the jobs out of India, taiwan, china then add upwards of $6k or more to the price of that new truck or suv.

A little off the subject.. GM says that $1400 of every vehicle sold, goes strictly to paying the health coverage of their american workers(another reason they outsource) EVERY VEHICLE!@!##$@
something has to be done with the frivolous lawsuits of this country.

afftandem
01-24-2005, 03:12 AM
Another thing.. for all you smokers out there with the disposable lighters ...BIC is a french company... ive had bics that say "made in usa" and have had some say "made in france"... but neverless, a french company... Go back to you zippos (Im assuming their american, but could be wrong) but probably made in China.

Mclaughld
01-24-2005, 03:20 AM
In One Aspect, I Understand The Keep Jobs Here Thing, But This Is A Whole New World And Is Changing Every Day. But The Flip Side Is That There Are Far Too Many People In These United States The Demand Cheaper Priced Products To Put An End To Buying From Over Seas. Also There Are Tons Of Businesses Here That Are Started By The Sale And Distribution Of All Those Products. Not To Mention Spare Parts And Repairs. Americans Are Still Being Employed, Just In Different Ways. Other Countries Want Our Products, Just As We Want Theirs. Pure Global Economics. We Just Need To Remain Competitive!

Very True, It sucks if your factory job gets outsourced. I however, am happy buying a $500 computer made in Korea instead of a $800 computer made in USA. It allows me to spend the saved $300 on other products (like getting my lawn worked on). As a whole, we are better off because we all can buy more with our money.

And remember, an outsourced job isnt a job that cant be replaced. The money businesses save because of outsourcing is pasted on to the customers. That means customers(You and Me) can now spend more money on other products and services. That extra spending by customers creates additional jobs here at home(USA). (I can now afford a computer AND a new set of truck tires, where before i could only afford the computer.)

afftandem
01-24-2005, 04:03 AM
In One Aspect, I Understand The Keep Jobs Here Thing, But This Is A Whole New World And Is Changing Every Day. But The Flip Side Is That There Are Far Too Many People In These United States The Demand Cheaper Priced Products To Put An End To Buying From Over Seas. Also There Are Tons Of Businesses Here That Are Started By The Sale And Distribution Of All Those Products. Not To Mention Spare Parts And Repairs. Americans Are Still Being Employed, Just In Different Ways. Other Countries Want Our Products, Just As We Want Theirs. Pure Global Economics. We Just Need To Remain Competitive!

True on the cheaper end of things.... but they will always outsource when possible... the UAW actually have contracts with the big 3 to limit the # of jobs that leave... what percent of chinese, or taiwanese, or indian products are american??? oh wait, thier are no products like these.. too many of our jobs are turning into wal mart jobs.. if you towns like mine, there are some factory jobs left out there but not many, and in the next 20yrs that factory will jump at the chance to go overseas.... also we can lower prices if we do sumthn about the frivolous lawsuits in this country, not to mention what CEO's are makeing..

And if you think its just factory jobs.. you are sorely mistaking.. if you have a Dell comp.. call their custoemer service.. it'll be taken in INDIA

But dont take my word for it .. drive around your hometown.. youll notice restaraunts, walmarts, and other retail stores goin up.. but factorys leave.. oh youll see some fact.'s, go up and stick around (and even do good) but do your own homework.. ck the # of factory jobs 20yrs ago in the area... If you think this country can be ran by $7/hr walmart jobs then you shouldnt have a problem with this..

We wont see the results right away.. but one day, maybe 20 -30yrs , it may come and bite us on the ass... or our kids ass.

One other thing... American co's who do business in China pay a high tax to the chinese gov... GM's has buik assembley plants in china.. 55% of profits go to the chinese.... so, in a sense, American co's are funding a system that builds nuclear bombs and points them at our cities...

afftandem
01-24-2005, 04:11 AM
You need the guy making $14/hr at a factory so he can shop at walmart to employee the guy whose making $7/hr... send the $14/hr job overseas, then you better hope that the guy making $7/hr at walmart is shopping at Kroger's to employee the guy whose making $6/hr.

Mclaughld
01-24-2005, 04:44 AM
Oh hogwash,
Can you back any of that up with facts.

The main point is this. The whole country is better off being able to buy a car for $13k instead of $16K. Now more people can afford to buy a car. The quality of living has gone up. Same with computers, same with Tv's.

A few people loss jobs. So they retrain and get different jobs. There are more jobs TODAY, then 10 years ago, even WITH outsourcing. Change isnt always bad.

Richard Martin
01-24-2005, 07:46 AM
Oh hogwash,
Can you back any of that up with facts.

The main point is this. The whole country is better off being able to buy a car for $13k instead of $16K. Now more people can afford to buy a car. The quality of living has gone up. Same with computers, same with Tv's.

A few people loss jobs. So they retrain and get different jobs. There are more jobs TODAY, then 10 years ago, even WITH outsourcing. Change isnt always bad.

I don't know about where you live but there are whole regions where unemployement is a big problem. Outsourcing is crushing the manufacturing industry. Even once stabil industries like textile goods and furniture manufacturing are going overseas.

Just what kind of job are you going to retrain someone who has made brushes their whole life for? The US is fast becoming a service based ecomomy and that isn't a good thing.

We also cannot continue to send American dollars overseas. Sure we can "print" more but the dollar is loosing ground everyday to other currencies because of that practice.

You really need to get out of the Bay Area with it's hyperinflated real estate driven economy and see what's happening in the rest of the country. It ain't all peaches and cream.

Richard Martin
01-24-2005, 07:56 AM
Oh, and I also want you to look at this website. Although it makes fun of what it shows the sad truth is that there is way too much of this kind of thing in our great nation. I have been to places where there is just mile after mile of this type of thing. Try telling these people that things are great.

http://www.drbukk.com/gmhom/park.html

dishboy
01-24-2005, 08:03 AM
You couldn't pay me to drive a foreign-made truck. I just prefer to support my fellow American citizens :rolleyes: :waving:

I'd swear my new F-150 has a Mazda transmision and possibly many more parts......and arn't all small block Chevy's made in Mexico, at least the Goodwrench 350 replacement engine is.

Envy Lawn Service
01-24-2005, 09:49 AM
Oh hogwash,
Can you back any of that up with facts.

The main point is this. The whole country is better off being able to buy a car for $13k instead of $16K. Now more people can afford to buy a car. The quality of living has gone up. Same with computers, same with Tv's.

A few people loss jobs. So they retrain and get different jobs. There are more jobs TODAY, then 10 years ago, even WITH outsourcing. Change isnt always bad.

Hogwash? No, it's more like BRAINWASHED!!! You see Mclaughld, it's you and yours (the majority of americans) that is feeding our certain demise. It's seems we have forsaken plain and simple common sense economics in favor of this new 'fuzzy math' crap. The same crap that has been pounded in your head by the media and politics. The irony of this is that both are controlled by the elite weathy, which in reality are the only ones that imported goods and exported jobs really benefit.

You know, your mind is still capable of self induced thought....
Spend some time generating a thought or two of your own for a change.
You'll be surprised how clear it all becomes.

If not, you'll figure it out soon enough, when the err of your thoughts and actions pay your local economy a visit in the 'Cali Bay Area'......

Envy Lawn Service
01-24-2005, 10:12 AM
Don't worry guys, pretty soon those cashed up chinkies are all going to want SUV's, Harlies, computers etc ... and other US made goods and I'm sure there'll be a maccas on every street corner in Bejing before too long with all those royalties flowing back to the USA.
Other Countries Want Our Products, Just As We Want Theirs. Pure Global Economics. We Just Need To Remain Competitive!

Now guys, I gotta ask.... have you checked the currency exchange rates, ever??? Select any currency you want and imagine yourself as a citizen on that country who wants to buy a new American ZTR. Do the math and see what you learn.... or better yet, just ask the Australian guys here what they pay for our mowers in Aussie dollars, and if that's not shocking enough, ask what they can charge in Aussie dollars an our for their services!

As far as remaining competitive... well that's a farce... plain and simple!
It can't be accomplished in this US economy, period!
If you don't believe that, then just ask the Mexican workers IN Mexico.
Even they can't compete with Chinese imports.
Matter of fact they have had to BAN some Chinese imports to protect Mexican industries.


For once, you guys need to stop allowing the media and politics to keep you pre-occupied with the issues that want you to worry about. Want to become shocked and worried about a real pressing issue that you really need to be concerned with????.... Check out the deficit.... bet $100 the first thing you thought of was the US budget deficit.... was I right???

Think about it. Now go research the US TRADE DEFICIT with other countries...

Carolina Cutter
01-24-2005, 10:58 AM
Take care of our own. :)

You wouldn't happen to have any Mexican employees would you???

And I gotta say......when people complain that there are no jobs to be had...they are lying flat out. The real truth is that they are unwilling to accept a job that they feel is below their standards. I have been there, with just dollars in my accounts and I was willing to do WHATEVER I had to do to eat and keep a roof over my head. Yea, I wanted better, and it got better after awhile but I had to LOWER my standards just to realize that the world owed me NOTHING and it is WHAT YOU MAKE OF IT!!!!!

SpudsM15
01-24-2005, 11:39 AM
I was in the capitol of china this summer(bejing) and its so much different you guys wouldn't beleive...
For one i got mugged by 2 little kids my first 2 hours there! Everywhere you go in that city there are hardcore beggers, In NYC those guys just sit there and leave you alone... These people see a WHite guy and go nutz!!! I mean they were hanging off of me litterally...
For one this city is huge but I think i can say i've seen one hec of a gettho....
BUt then on the flip side everywhere you look a new highrise was beingbuilt... I mean seriously everwhere i looked! I saw one of those huge cranes....
THe way i see our future panning out is... It will soon become more of a world economy rather than a nations economies... THe wealth is being spread thin... The chinese cheap labor is hurting themselves too...I never seen so much bootleg stuff RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE NAME BRAND STORE....
China tried once to become westernized but the stupid communist gov shot them for it.....
But, slowly but surely they are changing over... Their standard of living will increase...Rising the cost of living...demanding higher wages....

Also there was a hec of alot of Buicks over there and jeep wranglers....

And japan....The airport was being seriously overhauled... I only saw Ford trucks and CAT heavy equipment... I was like what the???

The only thing the US can do to slow this process is to lower taxes here to make it more appealing to businesses....
US being the top dogs...everyone is gunning to be us...Doing whatever possible to bet us...This is competition only the strong will survive...

snippy
01-24-2005, 02:51 PM
Its not all bad news http://www.export.gov/exportamerica/NewOpportunities/no_china_0203.html

Albemarle Lawn
01-24-2005, 03:02 PM
MERCEDES BENZ IS BUILDING A FACTORY IN CHINA to build the E-Class sedans, a premium $55,000+ car.

Yes China can build mowers, I'm surprized they haven't yet.

Realistically, it won't be a no-name that starts building in China. It will be a known name, like Toro maybe, with big connections and a good name to deter superstition about quality.

But in the big picture, equipment is just one cost. Yes it will give more people access, the guy who already has an old pickup truck can now enter the market easier.

For legit big lawn care, the big costs are fuel, workers comp, vehicles, real estate, and wages. Equipment is a big one but just one cost.

Realistically homeowner equipment (not commercial) is more likely to be made in china just because it is sold in much larger quantities, thus can really capture the gains to be had from mass manufacturing, marketing, and transportation.

KB

Albemarle Lawn
01-24-2005, 03:03 PM
market forces will prevail.

packerbacker
01-24-2005, 03:09 PM
can't stop living but, i'm not going to be purchusing anything built out of north america ( i included canada ) if i can help it, its not the company owner that matters its where its made. if its availible from here i don't care if it cost twice as much I AM SUPPORTING THE AMERICAN/CANADIAN WORKERS.
not some slant eyes half a world away. wally world is a discrase to the american work force along with awhole bunch more. bissel took manufaturing to mexico, fridgidare, lifesavers is in canada now instead of holland mi. dodges, fords and gms come from all over the only real american built is the so called imports.








LOL, are you kidding me??? You just proved how much of a redneck hick you are by what you posted. You offended me and alot of people here with your racist remarks. Take a look at your computer, you know, the piece of equipment that allows you to spread your racism, and ask yourself where it was made. Its people like you that make this country look bad.

packerbacker
01-24-2005, 03:28 PM
I just got done reading the whole thread. Whats wrong with some of you? Cant you get your points across without resorting to calling names?

I hate to tell you guys but most of the things you use in your daily life have things in them that are made in China, Japan, Korea or some other country.

Some of you are bad representatives of the USA, this message board and LCO's in general.

Shame on you. :nono:

Evergreenpros
01-24-2005, 03:54 PM
Ok, here goes:

The time of being afraid of foreign imports is over, done, finished!! Do you really want a minimum wage job working in a factory making crap for Walmart??? I don't. Those are UNSKILLED manufacturing jobs. They aren't making advanced aircraft navigation systems, they're making Tupperware bowls. We as a country need to concentrate on supplying the world with what we're good at making.

If you want to "save" all those manufacturing jobs, then quit your business and get hired at $8 an hour with no benefits. The problem isn't a lack of manufacturing jobs, the problem is a lack of people willing to do them, at any price. Imagine standing on an assembly line 40 hours a week painting faces on kid's toys. Yippy, I'll pass. Just think about bending small metal parts day after day after miserable day. No thanks.

People don't realize that all the crap you see that is Made in China, wouldn't be on the shelves if we didn't import it from there. We don't have the capacity to make all that stuff, we don't have the manpower. It just wouldn't exist, but people wouldn't even know any better and therefore wouldn't complain. Imported goods are good for CONSUMERS like you and me. How about prices? $7,000 for a ZTR? Hyundai (Korean) makes a complete automobile and sells it for about $8,000. It doesn't compute. Remember the crap Detroit was churning out in the 70's? Good Lord!!!!!!! Competition breeds success.

Don't be fearful of imported manufactured goods, they won't take your job. Out of 1.3billion people in China, 700,000,000 of them are engaged in farming, only raising enough to feed themselves, barely. In less than 20 years China will have approximately 600,000,000 people over the age of 65, talk about a nightmare and a huge strain on their system. Who will care for these people??? They have no clue either.

Like many Americans, I believe this is a divine place. We have more opportunity than we can imagine. Our union workers complain about $35/hour and bene's for working on an auto assembly line when there are literally billions of people in this world who wonder where there next meal is coming from. Give me a break. I'm not an advocate of welfare for the world, in fact I am against it, but I do support nations who are trying to get a better standard of living for their citizens.

The only way to defeat communism is to show their people another way of life. Keeping them poor and hungry won't inspire change, look at North Korea. I hear the same rhetoric about China as I heard in the 70's-80's about Japan. But now Japan is a thriving country, a strong ally of America, and it's people are free. 60 years ago we were nuking them, they have come a long way.

I hope China does get in the commercial mowing equipment business. You'll see the American companies buck up and start making products that they're capable of. Honda has the same mower for 20 years?(yes even the Japanese have become "lazy" with lack of competition) Toro has the proline 21 in the same for how many decades? LOL Come on China, let's wake up this industry for the benefit of us all.

out4now
01-24-2005, 05:18 PM
Great debate but a lot of hateful words. I have to agree with packer backer on this one. Economics is moving us to a New World Order "George Bush Sr. buzzword" and if you've ever read Karl Marx or the e-myth manager; capitalism is driven by greed so corruption will be our own undoing according to that theory. Tupper ware plants? Do you know that Boeing is over there? They're moving into high tech and there is an amazing amount of growth in a few areas. VW, Ford, GM have interests there and so does IBM and many other countries because they are looking more at developing markets that need those things. How many airplanes can we sell to bankrupt companies thanks to 911? As manufacturing disappears wages go down and thus we find ourselves at walmart because we have fewer dollars to go around and there is more competition for the remaining jobs because of laid off employees. What's the answer? I don't know for sure but closing the tax loophole on overseas investment will make it far less attractive I would think. jmy.02

SpudsM15
01-24-2005, 05:21 PM
Oh I just wanted to add...
That walmart has i beleive 5 stores open in china... one store has 80,000 people pass through every day!!! A good store in the US might get 6k....

Home depot my part time job will be openning a store in china this year....
Where do the profits for these companies go??? Right back here in the US to the share holders....
YOu guys are right about the stupid name calling!! Remember being white doesn't make you an american! You can be any color!
This is just the cycle that has been happening for many years... We develop products, produce them for a short period... Then move on
We live in a service economy now...Manufacturing jobs are no longer production units but rather specialty units...

packerbacker
01-24-2005, 05:43 PM
Oh I just wanted to add...
That walmart has i beleive 5 stores open in china... one store has 80,000 people pass through every day!!! A good store in the US might get 6k....

Home depot my part time job will be openning a store in china this year....
Where do the profits for these companies go??? Right back here in the US to the share holders....
YOu guys are right about the stupid name calling!! Remember being white doesn't make you an american! You can be any color!
This is just the cycle that has been happening for many years... We develop products, produce them for a short period... Then move on
We live in a service economy now...Manufacturing jobs are no longer production units but rather specialty units...








Everyone also needs to remember that TOYOTA has 8 manufactuaing plants in the USA with 3 more on the way!!!!!! Do you guys understand how many jobs that is for Americans????

Are you saying they should turn them down because TOYOTA is a Japanese vehicle???

Its going to bring billions of dollars and thousands of jobs to the US ! Some of you guys really need to think before you type. Theres a little button called "preview post" right underneath. I suggest some of you start using it.

StrategicMowing
01-24-2005, 05:59 PM
I just read this thread with great interest because I work for a mower manufacturer that helps to sponsor this site. We often discuss the potential of mowers being made in China or elsewhere at much lower cost. What we have seen happen in other industries is once one company makes the plunge, the others must follow suit simply in order to remain competitive.

Although to my knowledge no major companies in our industry are currently manufacturing units in China, many are sourcing raw materials and purchased parts from China or similar markets. With respect to jobs, sourcing from China has helped us create more jobs in the U.S. because the reduced cost helps us keep our prices low. This helps us sell more equipment, have more money to reinvest in expanding our operations, and hire more people. In fact, we have doubled our employees in the past two years. Furthermore, although it may seem counter-intuitive, we have actually helped our U.S. suppliers create more jobs as well because of the increased volume.

We are VERY proud that our mowers are manufactured in the U.S. and the vast majority of our parts are also made here at home. But we also understand that global sourcing and business does not have to be a win-lose game. We continue to hope and believe it can be done in such a way that U.S. workers and consumers, as well as partners overseas, both win.

Thank you all for the lively and insightful discussion.

Carolina Cutter
01-24-2005, 06:33 PM
LOL, are you kidding me??? You just proved how much of a redneck hick you are by what you posted. You offended me and alot of people here with your racist remarks. Take a look at your computer, you know, the piece of equipment that allows you to spread your racism, and ask yourself where it was made. Its people like you that make this country look bad.

Now why you gotta go dragging the rednecks like myself into this....we ain't been doin nuttin wrong........... ;)

packerbacker
01-24-2005, 06:45 PM
Now why you gotta go dragging the rednecks like myself into this....we ain't been doin nuttin wrong........... ;)




Cause your not the redneck who's wearing the pointy hat and the bed sheets ;)

PM Baker
01-24-2005, 06:45 PM
The problem I have with products from China (and I buy nothing from there) is that China is our enemy. Every penny we send their way, goes to building the military industry. From the beginning of the communist revolution, Lenin said that "we will hang the West with their own rope", in other words, the West would provide the finances to help defeat themselves. Nothing changes for the capitalist, who do you think supplied the Indians with their rifles and ammo? Let's wise up!

It is inevitable that we will have to one day defend ourselves against China. Every day, those who outsource there, and those who buy their products here, are unknowingly paying for the weapons that will kill their children and grandchildren.

The problem is not buying foreign products, the problem is buying products from our enemies, most specially enemies who are strong enough to take us on like Russia and China.

packerbacker
01-24-2005, 06:51 PM
]The problem I have with products from China (and I buy nothing from there) is that China is our enemy. [/B]Every penny we send their way, goes to building the military industry. From the beginning of the communist revolution, Lenin said that "we will hang the West with their own rope", in other words, the West would provide the finances to help defeat themselves. Nothing changes for the capitalist, who do you think supplied the Indians with their rifles and ammo? Let's wise up!

It is inevitable that we will have to one day defend ourselves against China. Every day, those who outsource there, and those who buy their products here, are unknowingly paying for the weapons that will kill their children and grandchildren.

The problem is not buying foreign products, the problem is buying products from our enemies, most specially enemies who are strong enough to take us on like Russia and China.






Uhhh, since when has China been an enemy of the US???

The problem is you guys believe everything you hear while sitting around a bar talking with your buddies. China is in no way an enemy of the US. Nor is Russia.

If you think for one minute that its "inevitable" that we will be at war with China i suggest you pack up right now and head for you bomb shelter. We will get ahold of you in about 75 years.


Do you think i shouldnt eat their food anymore either???

And BTW who did supply the guns and ammo for the indians?

Evergreenpros
01-24-2005, 07:16 PM
Uhhh, since when has China been an enemy of the US???



The Chinese heavily supported and supplied both the North Korean army during the Korean war and the North Vietnamese army during Nam.

Even though we've never been in direct conflict nor formally declared war on the Chinese, we've been fighting the communist Chinese for a long time.

Evergreenpros
01-24-2005, 07:25 PM
It is inevitable that we will have to one day defend ourselves against China. Every day, those who outsource there, and those who buy their products here, are unknowingly paying for the weapons that will kill their children and grandchildren.

The problem is not buying foreign products, the problem is buying products from our enemies, most specially enemies who are strong enough to take us on like Russia and China.

Keeping people poor and hungry won't make them our friend. To ignore the economic opportunity in China is foolish. We need to get in there and own the companies that will supply them automobiles, computers, dishwashers, lawn mowers, bricks for their homes, video games for their kids, etc. Regardless of what the US imports or not these industries in China will go forward.

packerbacker
01-24-2005, 07:26 PM
The Chinese heavily supported and supplied both the North Korean army during the Korean war and the North Vietnamese army during Nam.

Even though we've never been in direct conflict nor formally declared war on the Chinese, we've been fighting the communist Chinese for a long time.




And the US gave weapons to Bin Laden, Iraq, Iran, and Syria.

The point I was trying to make is unless China has a death wish they wont attack us. We mean to much to each other to do that. If China pushes the button and so do we the world as we know it is over.

But this thread is getting to political.

My point is we have to keep open trading with all the countries in the world. Its what makes the world go around. We cant build walls around this country. Some of the things the US makes are not quality prodcuts compared to the rest of the world. We need them to survive. Until we need to not rely on them like they have us then we will always have them as a crutch.

And whats the big deal anyway? People here are always saying how we need to keep the jobs in the US because of the unemployment here. Have any of you ever picked up a Sunday paper and seen the amount of jobs in it? I bet the KC Star has at least 750 jobs in it every week! Unemployment is so high because people wont swallow their pride and get a job that might be "below" them or they are just plain lazy

cantoo
01-24-2005, 09:52 PM
I am a plant manager by day and we are always having a very difficult time getting capable employees. We do pay a competitive wage but there are very few young people who want to get even a little dirty anymore. Last year I even tried a hiring agency to try to get people and itdidn't even help much. The papers are full of decent jobs every week. In the next couple of months I will need to hire about 50 people and I have very few decent leads. It's the same for the other manufacturers in Town the biggest problem in expanding is getting employees.

Envy Lawn Service
01-24-2005, 10:07 PM
Its not all bad news http://www.export.gov/exportamerica/NewOpportunities/no_china_0203.html
Appreciate the input, and no it's not all 100% bad news. But there again I would like to point out how seriously laughable that article is compared to the grand sceme of things.

"Since 1990, American exports to China have more than doubled to over $21 billion a year."

This is the kind of stuff they try to beat in our heads. Just the good small pieces of the puzzle. But this whole picture looks something sorta like this...

US job losses to Chinese imports are in the multi millions and growing....
The US/China trade deficit is in the hundreds of billions per year and growing....

You know, it's not all that hard to take a look at current and past numbers, and see where all this is going.
I predicted our current situation years ago

Oldtimer
01-24-2005, 10:13 PM
Wal-Mart is in the process of purchasing the largest warehouse complex in China. FedEx will take delivery of the first A380 freighters with a load capacity of 330,000 pounds. These freighters will be used exclusively between Asia and North America. Thats a lot of iPods.

Foreign built aircraft hauling foreign made products in and USD out.

PM Baker
01-25-2005, 01:24 AM
Keeping people poor and hungry won't make them our friend. To ignore the economic opportunity in China is foolish. We need to get in there and own the companies that will supply them automobiles, computers, dishwashers, lawn mowers, bricks for their homes, video games for their kids, etc. Regardless of what the US imports or not these industries in China will go forward.

"Keeping people poor and hungry won't make them our friend".- REPLY- the people are still poor and hungry, the communist government is getting all the money. They don't give a damn about their own people, don't think for one minute that they are our friend or give a hoot about us.

"We need to get in there and own the companies". - REPLY- your concept of ownership is naive, they can take what we own any time they wish, it's called expropriation. We lost everything in Cuba, China, Angola, Vietnam, etc.

"Regardless of what the US imports or not these industries in China will go forward" -REPLY- When this is so (that they can go forward at the same pace without our business), they will not need us, then they can afford to make their move. The first move will be expropriated. Today, over 90% of what China exports, goes to the USA.

I was in the foreign trade business for 25 years (I'm retired). We imported and exported products to/from all the continents. Our best sources for importing were in Taiwan. I don't see a problem with enriching our allies. China is not an ally. The real China is not the working people, it is the goverment that enriches itself, and expands their power over the people. This is nothing new, the few governing the masses. The Chinese people are basically slaves. If they don't like their job, let them move to one side, there are many others to take their place. They have no choice. By the way, with regard to labor rates, China (Vietnam, too ) are the bottom of the barrell. Rates can't be gotten for less anywhere in the world, and still recieve a quality product.

PM Baker
01-25-2005, 01:52 AM
Uhhh, since when has China been an enemy of the US???

The problem is you guys believe everything you hear while sitting around a bar talking with your buddies. China is in no way an enemy of the US. Nor is Russia.

If you think for one minute that its "inevitable" that we will be at war with China i suggest you pack up right now and head for you bomb shelter. We will get ahold of you in about 75 years.


Do you think i shouldnt eat their food anymore either???

And BTW who did supply the guns and ammo for the indians?

I don't "sit around the bar talking with my buddies". I don't sit around period. I don't drink beer, and I don't watch television. I'm a businessman who takes advantage of this website to learn from lawn professionals, the things I need to know to take care of my own lawn. My profession for 25 years was precisely foreign trade.

I just gave my opinion that I don't buy products from China. I have no preoccupation with death. I'm not building/running to any shelter. Whenever God decides to take me, I am His. He knows what is best for me. Besides, there is no difference between nuclear annihilation, "the end of the world" (improbable), and getting killed in a car accident (very probable). It is peoples horror of death that creates this "run for the shelter" hysteria. I don't have any horror of death.

It is simply not prudent to enrich our enemies. If you don't believe they are our enemies, then I would say to you, that it is not prudent to enrich our potential enemies
.

Soupy
01-25-2005, 02:06 AM
What about the LCO bringing foreigners over to work for 6 months and send them back with american money. This is one thing that really upsets me. Not only are we sending jobs to other countries, but now we are bringing the workers over here to perform the jobs. These worker do not stay here. They make as much american dollar as they can and take it home were it is worth more.

Fareway Lawncare
01-25-2005, 02:41 AM
No one can compete w/Cheap Labour & China Has it.


You kids are going to have to get Used to the Fact that China is Wal-Mart & the USA is Main Street.

crawdad
01-25-2005, 06:18 AM
Uhhh, since when has China been an enemy of the US???

.......

Oct. 1, 1949
Where have you been?

GPDesign1
01-25-2005, 10:36 AM
The Chinese Government is using the resources of their entire Nation to systematically BUY our markets. Period. All you have to do is look at the numbers.

American companies have to operate in an independent-state within our free-market economy. In other words, it's every man for himself. Our system demands that our companies come up with their own resources (independent of the State) and then gamble them in the market to the best of our ability. These private capital resources have to provide everything required to compete. From the factory building our products are built in, the tooling required to make the parts, the R&D to develop the products in the first place, material, manpower, utilities and on and on and on. And Taxes... it struck me as ironic that the very first check we formally wrote when we started our business was to the Government. And ALL this has to be done within the context of fair labor practices, private and intellectual property ownership, a minimum wage, near zero environmental impact, workplace safety, equal opportunity, a punitive product liability system, etc. That list goes on and on as well.

What we're up against with China is a government that is redirecting the entire strength of its National resources to provide everything required to build a product. Chinese companies (which are all essentially owned by the Government) are not required to account for the amount of resources they're consuming, as long as they get the product out. Factory and Overhead cost=Zero. Labor Costs=Zero. The ONLY thing the Chinese track is RAW material costs. A friend of mine owns a company that has been a supplier to the OPE industry for 60 years. He says that he can buy equivalent finished products from China for less than the raw steel prices in the U.S. How can they do that, you ask? The Chinese government pays their industry a 25% bonus for finished goods shipped to the U.S. What this means is that Chinese "industry" can be profitable selling for 25% below their raw material cost. They are simply buying our market by creating an environment in which no one else can compete, at least by conventional capitalist standards.. Talk about taking a "dump in the pool". And... as if this isn't enough, they're doing all this with virtual prison labor and doing it with utter disregard for the physical environment, intellectual or private property laws or most of the other earmarks of a civilized society. I grew up worrying about the Soviet Union... misplaced fear. The real battle between civilized free-market capitalism and "gang mentality" communism is being fought right now at your local Wal-Mart store.

After these guys have successfully driven all of our domestic industries into the ground, I suspect the prices won't be so sweet anymore. But by then, our economy will have been sucked dry anyway. Probably gonna be a little tough finding someone's yard to mow though. Maybe they can pay you in rice.

SpudsM15
01-25-2005, 11:04 AM
China is made our enemey because they are communist... They did also steal some of our ICBM technology's under the clinton admin... Thats a scary thought... Really this is the reason we need a missle defense system because of china and N korea...

I hope in good time once these people get a good taste of our culture hopefully they can change. Because you guys are right the government is all about Making the Powerful more powerful and making the workers more productive.. Not increasing the standard of living for everybody...

packerbacker
01-25-2005, 12:52 PM
China is made our enemey because they are communist... They did also steal some of our ICBM technology's under the clinton admin... Thats a scary thought... Really this is the reason we need a missle defense system because of china and N korea...

I hope in good time once these people get a good taste of our culture hopefully they can change. Because you guys are right the government is all about Making the Powerful more powerful and making the workers more productive.. Not increasing the standard of living for everybody...





So why do they need one?

Fareway Lawncare
01-25-2005, 07:16 PM
It seems Scag may be Jumping on the Cheap China Bandwagon...They're possibly marketing & Financing a Brand called Red Hawk which are Bradley's.

Not a Good Move for a company that Prides itself on Being Ameican Made.

Here's Scag's parent Company...Notice the Proudly Made in the USA Seal.

Hypocrites...it's All about the Bucks.

http://www.mtlcraft.com/

stumper1620
01-25-2005, 10:17 PM
I grew up thru the cold war, Russia was the enemy, during Vietnam war the Chinese helped the VC, that made them a bigger enemy than we already considered them. Then came our greatest President " RONALD REGAN"
He defeated communist Russia by out spending them, we had the ability to do anything technically that we wanted and if we didn't have it we could develop it, Russia new this, They could not keep up the spending race, We WON and the wall came down. Now if all our Manufacturing goes over there and all our money is going to them, and We here in America are at war with terrorist that are draining down our military reserve and draining our economy plus a rouge tidal wave that we sent tons of money out in relief aid, add to that our own natural disasters that are costing millions, while we are spending and buying Chinese produced products, they are raking in the money and channeling large amounts of it straight to their military and nuclear programs that they stole the secrets too. while we go deeper in debt.
YES THIS BOTHERS ME!
LETS KEEP OUR MONEY HERE AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.

PM Baker
01-26-2005, 08:47 AM
Curious how the most powerful military in the world, Soviet Union, our dangerous enemy for 80 years, almost overnight, becomes insignificant to the Press/Media and thus Americans. While a handful of Arabs, incapable of defeating the Israeli police, now becomes our dreaded/dangerous enemy.

It's no coincidence, nothing happens by chance. Don't allow yourselves to be brainwashed. Open your eyes, nothing has changed. The Arab terrorist is still incapable of defeating the Israeli police. The Soviet Union (and their ally China) is still our most dangerous enemy. This is not the first time the Bolsheviks have played possum, to get the Western investment.

I remember during the Vietnam War, seeing a photograph in the of a Soviet cargo ship entering North Vietnam's Haiphong Harbour, the entry point for all the weaponry that was used to kill American soldiers. The ship's deck was loaded with military trucks. What the article didn't say was that the ship's engine, and all the trucks on the ship, were built in a plant built by American companies in the Soviet Union. American companies built those plants during one of those prior occasions when the Bolsheviks played possum.

Brave American Soldiers were killed with equipment built in American built plants. Nothing changes, today American (and European) companies are building plants in Russia, China, and North Vietnam.

Jason Pallas
01-26-2005, 09:17 AM
aloha from DETROIT - home of over 100,000 jobs lost to outsourcing in the last 4 years. (well actually the whole state of Michigan). Let me tell you how this will eventually affect you directly - as we seem to be on the cutting edge of this topic. Your lawn/landscape customer base will begin to see outsourcing cut into their job/salary/hourly wage. As their jobs go bye bye, one of the first things they realize is that "I don't have the money to pay someone to cut me lawn!" It's one of the first luxury service to go. I saw business drop off by almost 25%!!! Just now we're only starting to recover. My adivce - AGGRESSIVELY BUY AMERICAN - keep your money in this country. Support the wokers that support you. Sure, you may be able to get that chineese mower for $800 less or that new Toyota Pick up that looks so cool - but don't complain when you're out on the streets begging for change because no one in town has a job + can afford to hire a landscaper.
Oh yeah - another nice by-product of the old outsourcing/job lay-off: All those laid off workers suddenly go into the landscaping business with their craftsman mower and their brother's pick-up truck. Hello increased competition - oh yeah, they work dirt cheap too. Think locally! Buy American!

dishboy
01-26-2005, 10:22 AM
aloha from DETROIT - home of over 100,000 jobs lost to outsourcing in the last 4 years. (well actually the whole state of Michigan). Let me tell you how this will eventually affect you directly - as we seem to be on the cutting edge of this topic. Your lawn/landscape customer base will begin to see outsourcing cut into their job/salary/hourly wage. As their jobs go bye bye, one of the first things they realize is that "I don't have the money to pay someone to cut me lawn!" It's one of the first luxury service to go. I saw business drop off by almost 25%!!! Just now we're only starting to recover. My adivce - AGGRESSIVELY BUY AMERICAN - keep your money in this country. Support the wokers that support you. Sure, you may be able to get that chineese mower for $800 less or that new Toyota Pick up that looks so cool - but don't complain when you're out on the streets begging for change because no one in town has a job + can afford to hire a landscaper.
Oh yeah - another nice by-product of the old outsourcing/job lay-off: All those laid off workers suddenly go into the landscaping business with their craftsman mower and their brother's pick-up truck. Hello increased competition - oh yeah, they work dirt cheap too. Think locally! Buy American!


What brand trimmer and blower is on your truck?

gotgreen?
01-26-2005, 10:38 AM
Does anyone think why the jobs are going away? As some of you know, I am an immigrant from Mexico, and since I came to this country I have lost 2 jobs after union negotiations, and on both jobs I had great benefits and a very decent hourly salary for someone with only high school education, man I had it better than some people with college education, but companies have to make a profit also and the unions and people that were voting for the contracts were demanding to much for what we were doing, and believe me, we knew on one of those occasions the company was not doing very well. Well I got downsized. The company was not able to stay on business for very long after that. After that, I went to work on a packing plant with some benefits and for what I was told every time there was a contract it keep getting worse for the company and the employees and the reason, more demands from the unions (members that vote) and the company was not able to meet those demands, let me tell you there were some people making over $20 just for pushing 4 buttons on a machine, and I used to cover one of those persons for lunch for less than half of that, it was not a job at NASA. That did not last long. Also right next to that company, there was a company contracted to make truck frames to built Ford trucks, I agree a little more skilled job but I guess more union demands and they finally could not keep paying what employees wanted and they sent some of the production to somewhere in Mexico and more people got downsized. The point is do not like that the jobs are going to another country or that companies are going out of business and leaving people unemployed, hey, I am not in Mexico or some other country, I am here in United States but people need to realize that people demands are killing some of these jobs and some companies also, and need to realize that when is time to negotiate need be more reasonable and take a look at how the company is doing and think of their families and future and not only on the short term benefits that a new contract may bring, or until then we will have to deal with lawn mowers from China. What I saw and the insecurity of knowing if I am going to have a job tomorrow drove me to cut grass, where I do not make a lot of money but help me to supplement the income in my family and live with less stress. Hey I don't go to work ridding on a bicycle or cut grass with a machete.

mommacutz
01-26-2005, 01:29 PM
You couldn't pay me to drive a foreign-made truck. I just prefer to support my fellow American citizens :rolleyes: :waving:

Me and my husband can't fit into a import truck! LOL

mommacutz
01-26-2005, 01:37 PM
Does anyone think why the jobs are going away? As some of you know, I am an immigrant from Mexico, and since I came to this country I have lost 2 jobs after union negotiations, and on both jobs I had great benefits and a very decent hourly salary for someone with only high school education, man I had it better than some people with college education, but companies have to make a profit also and the unions and people that were voting for the contracts were demanding to much for what we were doing, and believe me, we knew on one of those occasions the company was not doing very well. Well I got downsized. The company was not able to stay on business for very long after that. After that, I went to work on a packing plant with some benefits and for what I was told every time there was a contract it keep getting worse for the company and the employees and the reason, more demands from the unions (members that vote) and the company was not able to meet those demands, let me tell you there were some people making over $20 just for pushing 4 buttons on a machine, and I used to cover one of those persons for lunch for less than half of that, it was not a job at NASA. That did not last long. Also right next to that company, there was a company contracted to make truck frames to built Ford trucks, I agree a little more skilled job but I guess more union demands and they finally could not keep paying what employees wanted and they sent some of the production to somewhere in Mexico and more people got downsized. The point is do not like that the jobs are going to another country or that companies are going out of business and leaving people unemployed, hey, I am not in Mexico or some other country, I am here in United States but people need to realize that people demands are killing some of these jobs and some companies also, and need to realize that when is time to negotiate need be more reasonable and take a look at how the company is doing and think of their families and future and not only on the short term benefits that a new contract may bring, or until then we will have to deal with lawn mowers from China. What I saw and the insecurity of knowing if I am going to have a job tomorrow drove me to cut grass, where I do not make a lot of money but help me to supplement the income in my family and live with less stress. Hey I don't go to work ridding on a bicycle or cut grass with a machete.
Sorry I have to disagree with you to some extent. The main culprit is greed by the company owners. My hubbies job shut down with only 2 days notice before Thanksgiving. They flat out told these steelworker union guys that instead of paying them $13 hrly they were going to Mexico and pay $13 WEEKLY! While everything went down the owner was reportedly chilling on his yacht! Btw we lost our medical insurance that same month. But God is still good because we started the lawn company soon after and make about triple if not more of the income with more freedom for our family.

Azraell
01-26-2005, 02:15 PM
Errr....... now wait a minute......You guys scream and rant about buying American, then you'll turn around and send 100's of millions of dollars to mexico in the form of wages for the mexicans that you hire that arent even American citizens and a majority that are illegal that aren't even suppose to be in the country. ;) OOOOOOOOOOOK. Thats about as two faced as you can get. But go ahead and live in your little fantasy world where you think you are doing good by buying American.

gotgreen?
01-26-2005, 07:36 PM
Sorry I have to disagree with you to some extent. The main culprit is greed by the company owners.

Well if you think about it, there is not that many owners for big companies, most of them are run by people that are responsible to their stock holders to make a profit, and even small companies run by their owners want to make a profit, even I want to be able to have an employee at some point and be able to give him a good pay but if the demands for a salary are more than I can pay, we will have to part ways, after all I do not run a non-for-profit business. I guess I am being greedy and a dreamer, but hey, the American dream is to own your company (including my one man operation). On the other hand and getting back on track, there still a lot of choices out there for lawn equipment that are manufactured in the good old USA and anyone is free to choose what they want between those made here or China.

scaglawnsnj
01-26-2005, 07:59 PM
Looking to Save a Few Bucks or Looking for a "Great Deal" on a Mower ?.... beware that you May be supporting the Rise of the World's Next Economic Super Power....Cheap Labour Can't be Beat...Especially by a Spoiled North American Population.

http://www.mowersulky.com/factory_tour.htm
I went to the web-site..And I was amazed..2000 for a hydro walk behind..And pretty red paint.Like a ferri..They make ztr 52" riders(hydro)Nice
And guess what 3500.00 brand new shipped...I wrote them and got a quick responce....I mit buy one of those riders.. :realmad: talk about more money in my pocket..China man mowers no problem...as long as they last and cut good..hummn

Soupy
01-26-2005, 09:25 PM
Well if you think about it, there is not that many owners for big companies, most of them are run by people that are responsible to their stock holders to make a profit, and even small companies run by their owners want to make a profit, even I want to be able to have an employee at some point and be able to give him a good pay but if the demands for a salary are more than I can pay, we will have to part ways, after all I do not run a non-for-profit business. I guess I am being greedy and a dreamer, but hey, the American dream is to own your company (including my one man operation). On the other hand and getting back on track, there still a lot of choices out there for lawn equipment that are manufactured in the good old USA and anyone is free to choose what they want between those made here or China.

The owner is the guy with the most stock. None the less, the Ceo and large stock holders (no matter what their tittle is) are the ones laughing all the way to the bank. They don't care about anything but their money and the money that they leave to their children. They live in a different world and could care less about what happens to the rest of the american citizens.

mommacutz
01-26-2005, 10:03 PM
The owner is the guy with the most stock. None the less, the Ceo and large stock holders (no matter what their tittle is) are the ones laughing all the way to the bank. They don't care about anything but their money and the money that they leave to their children. They live in a different world and could care less about what happens to the rest of the american citizens.

I couldn't have put it better myself. Thank You !

Fareway Lawncare
01-27-2005, 08:02 PM
I went to the web-site..And I was amazed..2000 for a hydro walk behind..And pretty red paint.Like a ferri..They make ztr 52" riders(hydro)Nice
And guess what 3500.00 brand new shipped...I wrote them and got a quick responce....I mit buy one of those riders.. :realmad: talk about more money in my pocket..China man mowers no problem...as long as they last and cut good..hummn

where do you See 2K for the Hydro Walk ?

Evergreenpros
01-27-2005, 08:17 PM
Here:

http://www.mowersulky.com/hydro_drive.htm

I didn't see price though.

Travis Followell
01-27-2005, 08:44 PM
Well I can't help but wonder with all you guys talking about buying american and keeping your money in the USA how many of you all have kawasaki or Honda Engines on your mowers and use Redmax, Shindawia, Tanaka, and Echo power equipment. Your money is going straight to japan. i suggest you start buying Stihl equipment and Kohler engines on your mowers.

Richard Martin
01-28-2005, 01:50 AM
Redmax, Shindawia, Tanaka, and Echo power equipment. Your money is going straight to japan. i suggest you start buying Stihl

What's the difference between sending your money to Japan or sending it to Germany? It's leaving the country either way. Or did you not know that Stihl USA is owned by ANDREAS STIHL AG & Co. KG, Waiblingen, Germany?

Envy Lawn Service
01-28-2005, 03:23 AM
What's the difference between sending your money to Japan or sending it to Germany? It's leaving the country either way. Or did you not know that Stihl USA is owned by ANDREAS STIHL AG & Co. KG, Waiblingen, Germany?
The difference there is the 1,200 American workers employed by Stihl USA.

Richard Martin
01-28-2005, 03:40 AM
The difference there is the 1,200 American workers employed by Stihl USA.

A great number, if not all, of the other imports are assembled here too. You ever see what it says on the crankcase of a Kawasaki engine? In case you haven't noticed it says MADE IN USA. A good number of the parts on a Kohler engine are out-sourced too. The electronics (Mexican the last I heard), fuel injection (Bosch) and who knows what else.

I am all for buying as many American owned products as possible but to say that you should buy Stihl over any other import just because they're assembled here doesn't hold water.

Travis Followell
01-28-2005, 06:03 AM
I really didn't know that Stihl was really German. I honestly thought that they were american. I guess because of the large manufacturing plant they have in Virgina Beach, Virginia. Stihl says made in USA while other equipment says assembeled in USA. You right I guess, most companies outsource so several parts are foreign made. I know the Zama carburetors on Stihl are made in China.

Evergreenpros
01-28-2005, 06:22 AM
I believe in 30-40 years almost everything will be manufactured in an automated plant with only some products requiring assembly by hand, mostly final assembly.

It's not uncommon to find a vehicle that is American made but the engine is Japanese, the transmission is Korean, the rear end (if it has one) is German, the suspension is Brazilian, it was partially assembled in Mexico with final assembly in the USA.

Soon everything will be manufactured in this manner. Human resources are so difficult to come by they have to utilize them as best they can. They're finding it's better for these 1000 people to make only rear ends then ship them to an assembly plant than to try and have those same 1000 people make the rear end, engine, transmission, etc etc and assemble it as well.

Richard Martin
01-28-2005, 06:41 AM
manufacturing plant they have in Virgina Beach, Virginia. Stihl says made in USA while other equipment says assembeled in USA.

While it is true that Stihl is manufacturing cranks, plastics and recently pistons at the Virginia Beach plant most of the rest of the parts are still out-sourced.

scaglawnsnj
01-28-2005, 10:27 AM
where do you See 2K for the Hydro Walk ?
Like I said...I GOT THE PRICE BY EMAIL FROM THE CO SELLING THEM..
if these mowers are cheap..long lasting..efficient..who cares these can make your yearly profits double..by saving half of a scag mower..
I bet the coorperate land co's get a fleet of these
**** a muti-million co uses homelite curved trimmers in my area

dishboy
01-28-2005, 10:33 AM
Like I said...I GOT THE PRICE BY EMAIL FROM THE CO SELLING THEM..
if these mowers are cheap..long lasting..efficient..who cares these can make your yearly profits double..by saving half of a scag mower..


Since most of the real good cutting mowers have patents protecting their deck designs, it might be prudent to investigate what you are buying thoroughly.

SpudsM15
01-28-2005, 10:42 AM
These cheap mowers if they are high quality are going to hurt us in the long run. Companies are goning to start lowering prices even more because they can. Also the start up cost is going to be even cheaper...

PM Baker
01-28-2005, 10:54 AM
Like I said...I GOT THE PRICE BY EMAIL FROM THE CO SELLING THEM..
if these mowers are cheap..long lasting..efficient..who cares these can make your yearly profits double..by saving half of a scag mower..
I bet the coorperate land co's get a fleet of these
**** a muti-million co uses homelite curved trimmers in my area

My experiences with Made in China simple products, like shoes and rubber items is that they look the same but don't last. In the end the China products end up being more costly.

Some quick examples of looks the same but isn't:

A pair of China made Sperry Topsider deck shoes $69, lasted 6 months before the sole broke off the shoe. A pair of USA made Timberlands, $108 lasted 8 years.

All the same mask model. The first mask, USA made lasted same 7 years.
The second, Made in Taiwan, lasted 7 years. The third, a Made in Chna dive mask lasted one season, the rubber decomposed completely.

I wouldn't buy something as complicated as a ZTR from China at any price. A few dollars saved will cost you in lost time repairing, add to that the short life and no resale value. IT ADDS UP TO A SUCKERS BUY.

Fareway Lawncare
01-28-2005, 11:00 AM
Like I said...I GOT THE PRICE BY EMAIL FROM THE CO SELLING THEM..


The belts are 2.5k...I Doubt they'd Let a Hydro go for 2....

http://www.kimcousa.com/BR48KO180B.html

Richard Martin
01-28-2005, 12:46 PM
The belts are 2.5k...I Doubt they'd Let a Hydro go for 2....[/url]

Get real, you can buy those on Ebay all day long for way less than that. $1749.99 for 48" 18 Kohler.

http://search.ebay.com/bradley-mower_W0QQfkrZ1QQfromZR8

cmoore
01-28-2005, 01:46 PM
I don't remember who posted it, but they were talking about buying a product from China and having enough cash left over to purchase a set of truck tires with the savings.

This may be true, but since all of the industry in my area started leaving, my local taxes have really gone up. The tax base has diminished because one larger factory moved overseas and that alone will cost me an extra $600 next year because a new school tax had to be passed to keep the school running. My property taxes are also going up. Even with the increased taxes my local HS may be forced to drop all of its sports.

In a large city this may not be a problem. But in small town America the revenue stream is limited.

cmoore
01-28-2005, 01:58 PM
The person who posted about factory jobs leaving resulting in new competition is dead on. Where I live many people have large yards and very nice lawn mowers. When my job gets whacked because of corporate greed I will throw my hat into the lawn care field at least part time.

I also have nicer equipment then some of the pros on here list.

scaglawnsnj
01-28-2005, 03:33 PM
My experiences with Made in China simple products, like shoes and rubber items is that they look the same but don't last. In the end the China products end up being more costly.

Some quick examples of looks the same but isn't:

A pair of China made Sperry Topsider deck shoes $69, lasted 6 months before the sole broke off the shoe. A pair of USA made Timberlands, $108 lasted 8 years.

All the same mask model. The first mask, USA made lasted same 7 years.
The second, Made in Taiwan, lasted 7 years. The third, a Made in Chna dive mask lasted one season, the rubber decomposed completely.

I wouldn't buy something as complicated as a ZTR from China at any price. A few dollars saved will cost you in lost time repairing, add to that the short life and no resale value. IT ADDS UP TO A SUCKERS BUY.
Very Good Point
China made products do suck..
I love scag orange. I love MADE IN USA. I love the rigidity of scag
I think i'll buy scag.
But at 3700.00 for a ztr 52" 25hp hydro rider i tempting..
Scag turf tiger 52" 25hp hydro 8000.00
Hope they make a 36 rider for 2500.00 then i'll take one for sure
just too see what kinda **** these things take

Travis Followell
01-28-2005, 07:03 PM
Chinese products really are junk and not worth bringing home. I have found that out with chinese tools. I guess most of you have heard of Homier who travels the country having truckload tool sales. The tools are dirt cheap made in china and are very tempting to buy. I know I have plenty in my shop but they are not worth it in the long run. They sell 4 1/2" grinders for $5.99. thats unreal. They are the most expensive grinders anywhere. Cut 2 small bolts and the brushes in the moror completely melt. $6.00 to cut 2 bolts, I don't think so. Buy a Dewalt american made for $50 and it will take much abuse and last for years. China just costs everyone more in the long run.

Soupy
01-28-2005, 07:12 PM
Chinese products really are junk and not worth bringing home. I have found that out with chinese tools. I guess most of you have heard of Homier who travels the country having truckload tool sales. The tools are dirt cheap made in china and are very tempting to buy. I know I have plenty in my shop but they are not worth it in the long run. They sell 4 1/2" grinders for $5.99. thats unreal. They are the most expensive grinders anywhere. Cut 2 small bolts and the brushes in the moror completely melt. $6.00 to cut 2 bolts, I don't think so. Buy a Dewalt american made for $50 and it will take much abuse and last for years. China just costs everyone more in the long run.

I bought a cheap 4 1/2 grinder at Ace for $9.99. I used it to cut the welds on my deck so I could put a new floor on it. I figured if it lasted for that job alone then I would get my $10 worth. But it has ended up lasting through several other task (2 years old now) with no sign of wear.

Point is, Even the cheap USA made tools are good. My grinder was made in Illinois.

Travis Followell
01-28-2005, 07:14 PM
I bought a cheap 4 1/2 grinder at Ace for $9.99. I used it to cut the welds on my deck so I could put a new floor on it. I figured if it lasted for that job alone then I would get my $10 worth. But it has ended up lasting through several other task (2 years old now) with no sign of wear.

Point is, Even the cheap USA made tools are good. My grinder was made in Illinois.
Wow, I never thought you could get an american made grinder for $9.99. Thats unbelievable. What brand is it?

packerbacker
01-28-2005, 07:32 PM
The difference there is the 1,200 American workers employed by Stihl USA.





And thousands are employed by Toyota plants here in the US but that doesnt stop people here from saying bad things about the Japanese.

Soupy
01-28-2005, 10:21 PM
Wow, I never thought you could get an american made grinder for $9.99. Thats unbelievable. What brand is it?

I think it is normally $20 at Ace. Here in southern IL the Ace by my house sells a brand called IIT (Illinois industrial tool) a lot of their stuff is junk, but every once in awhile they get it right. It's just one of those you get what you pay for type companies. They do give you a little more of your moneys worth then the Chinese do. Plus it stays in the country.

My point was that if people want to save money on cheap stuff, then there are american companies that will fit their needs. Better then china too.

SpudsM15
01-29-2005, 01:12 PM
The differenance we need to make here is also... MAde in USA, Japan, China...
Some japanesse cars are good stuff... My girls car honda civic maybe had 1 quart of oil left in the case when i did the first oil change... Still running strong 30k miles from that point...
My bro's maxima which is assembled in USA one problem $300 fix, 100k miles 8 years old...
My parents infiniti 4 years old 35k no problems except for a powerseat problem fixed at no cost...
My dad's old dakota ... over the course of 9 years needed.. 2 new water pumps, new radiator, 2 new brake master cyclinders, a new tranny, Motor mounts, fuel pump... but that was 250k miles
China's products are made to rep the greatest profits, these products are churned out with the cheapest possible labor and using the cheapest quality materials... This is what the manufacturs want... You buy a product to throw it away when it dies... So u have to buy more...

stumper1620
01-29-2005, 01:50 PM
The differenance we need to make here is also... MAde in USA, Japan, China...
Some japanesse cars are good stuff... My girls car honda civic maybe had 1 quart of oil left in the case when i did the first oil change... Still running strong 30k miles from that point...
My bro's maxima which is assembled in USA one problem $300 fix, 100k miles 8 years old...
My parents infiniti 4 years old 35k no problems except for a powerseat problem fixed at no cost...
My dad's old dakota ... over the course of 9 years needed.. 2 new water pumps, new radiator, 2 new brake master cyclinders, a new tranny, Motor mounts, fuel pump... but that was 250k miles
China's products are made to rep the greatest profits, these products are churned out with the cheapest possible labor and using the cheapest quality materials... This is what the manufacturs want... You buy a product to throw it away when it dies... So u have to buy more...
Honda civic- manufactured and built 90 % American supplied parts- Marysville Ohio
Honda Accord- same- assembled- East Libertiville, Ohio
Honda Odyssey & Pilot- dual production faculties- 2 lines operating in Alabama
1 line Operating in Canada both built with 90% American supplied parts.
100% ASSEMBLED NORTH AMERICAN WORKERS!!! :cool2:

fixer67
01-29-2005, 03:15 PM
I did not fell like reading close to a hundred post on this so it may already be posted.Go to How to Buy American (http://www.howtobuyamerican.com). You will be amazed and upset about what you will learn. It is all but impossible to but nothing but American made goods. I am afraid we have let it go too far to do much about it now. Like my old man says "Why close the barn door after the horse has ran off?".

PM Baker
02-08-2005, 09:09 AM
I've said it over and over. Don't buy China made products, every net penny you give them goes to building their military complex. They can field a standing army of 200+ million. See http://start.earthlink.net/article/int?guid=20050208/42084750_3ca6_1552620050208-1009825628

Evergreenpros
02-09-2005, 02:54 AM
The owner is the guy with the most stock. None the less, the Ceo and large stock holders (no matter what their tittle is) are the ones laughing all the way to the bank. They don't care about anything but their money and the money that they leave to their children. They live in a different world and could care less about what happens to the rest of the american citizens.


Oh please. That is a silly rant and competely untrue. Being on both sides of the aisle (employer/employee) I'd say over 90% of employees could care less about the company, other workers, or anybody but their own greedy selves. All I heard everyday from their sorry butts was how they were getting sc*wed by somebody (real or otherwise) and how their life was so bad. Made me want to puke.

We all work to make money, no matter if we own the business or work there. I get a kick out of workers calling owners greedy and they're "only in it for the money" when that worker has a $15 mistake on their paycheck they call the department of labor and stay home until it's fixed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! True story!!!!!!!!!! Is he not " in it for the money"???? LOL

I'm all for moving jobs to China. I'm 100% convinced that ALL Americans worth a hill of beans are FULLY EMPLOYEED as we speak. Trying to create more jobs here is a waste of time and money. Better jobs yes, but more? No way. Cripes just read this web, almost all of us have tons of $10-15+ per hour unskilled labor positions open. Why again do we need to create more? And yes, putting together lawn mowers (final assembly) is an unskilled position.

As a business owner, I'll stop making money my #1 priority when somebody comes up with a way I can pay my bills without it!!!!!

And one correction, when a company goes bankrupt, the "owners" are left with nothing.

Like I tell everyone, if you think "workers" in America are getting sc*rewed, then hire all of the unemployeed, pay them $50k a year with full benefits and have them do something you can make money at. Good luck.

PM Baker
02-09-2005, 08:54 AM
Oh please. That is a silly rant and competely untrue. Being on both sides of the aisle (employer/employee) I'd say over 90% of employees could care less about the company, other workers, or anybody but their own greedy selves. All I heard everyday from their sorry butts was how they were getting sc*wed by somebody (real or otherwise) and how their life was so bad. Made me want to puke.

We all work to make money, no matter if we own the business or work there. I get a kick out of workers calling owners greedy and they're "only in it for the money" when that worker has a $15 mistake on their paycheck they call the department of labor and stay home until it's fixed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! True story!!!!!!!!!! Is he not " in it for the money"???? LOL

I'm all for moving jobs to China. I'm 100% convinced that ALL Americans worth a hill of beans are FULLY EMPLOYEED as we speak. Trying to create more jobs here is a waste of time and money. Better jobs yes, but more? No way. Cripes just read this web, almost all of us have tons of $10-15+ per hour unskilled labor positions open. Why again do we need to create more? And yes, putting together lawn mowers (final assembly) is an unskilled position.

As a business owner, I'll stop making money my #1 priority when somebody comes up with a way I can pay my bills without it!!!!!

And one correction, when a company goes bankrupt, the "owners" are left with nothing.

Like I tell everyone, if you think "workers" in America are getting sc*rewed, then hire all of the unemployeed, pay them $50k a year with full benefits and have them do something you can make money at. Good luck.

I don't see anything wrong with helping our allies. I see a big time error in financing our enemies build up their military. Specially enemies that are/can become stronger than us (China/Russia).

PM Baker
02-09-2005, 09:07 AM
I don't see anything wrong with helping our allies by sending business their way. You can think of it as teaching them to fish, rather than giving them a fish to eat (relief aid).

It is a big time error to finance our enemies build up of their military, specially enemies that are/can become stronger than us (China/Russia).

Don't buy Chinese. I don't. It's not that difficult. Besides, their products don't last, so, they really cost more.

mommacutz
02-09-2005, 09:09 PM
The differenance we need to make here is also... MAde in USA, Japan, China...
Some japanesse cars are good stuff... My girls car honda civic maybe had 1 quart of oil left in the case when i did the first oil change... Still running strong 30k miles from that point...
My bro's maxima which is assembled in USA one problem $300 fix, 100k miles 8 years old...
My parents infiniti 4 years old 35k no problems except for a powerseat problem fixed at no cost...
My dad's old dakota ... over the course of 9 years needed.. 2 new water pumps, new radiator, 2 new brake master cyclinders, a new tranny, Motor mounts, fuel pump... but that was 250k miles
China's products are made to rep the greatest profits, these products are churned out with the cheapest possible labor and using the cheapest quality materials... This is what the manufacturs want... You buy a product to throw it away when it dies... So u have to buy more...
If man made it, it can tear up. It doesn't matter Japanese or American :)

Fareway Lawncare
04-23-2005, 02:36 AM
Interesting to Note that Bradely/RedHawk/LandscapeSupply/Crap has Eliminated the picture of a Bunch of Chinese Assembling their Mowers in the Original Link I Posted in this Thread...

Don't be Fooled by their Vague USA Flag Waving BS

These Units are Not Assembled in Fortress NORTH AMERICA...& Scag is Now Part of it.

Richard Martin
04-23-2005, 05:56 AM
I'm all for moving jobs to China. I'm 100% convinced that ALL Americans worth a hill of beans are FULLY EMPLOYEED as we speak. Trying to create more jobs here is a waste of time and money. Better jobs yes, but more? No way. Cripes just read this web, almost all of us have tons of $10-15+ per hour unskilled labor positions open. Why again do we need to create more? And yes, putting together lawn mowers (final assembly) is an unskilled position.

I wish I had seen this when it was posted.

You have ZERO idea of the status of literally millions of Americans. Manufacturing jobs (read that as unskilled jobs) are going overseas by the thousands almost every week. Sure there are some hi-tech jobs jobs being created in certain Silicone Valley type areas. But how is Billy Backwater supposed to get there, support his family and buy/rent a house when he has a poor credit rating and no money because he got laid off from the Rubbermaid plant last year? Those of us who are among the "haves" don't realize how hard it is for the "have nots" and so often turn a blind eye towards their very existance.

Doc_77
04-23-2005, 07:36 AM
wow my brain hurts from reading all the opinions and miss information.
out sourcing is a good thing.
it brings costs down as well as creates jobs !!!
ya believe it or not the stuff China makes doesn't magically appear on wallmart shelfs.
it needs to be shipped here by plane , boat and truck's.

you live in America you have a chance at an education and a good paying job.
aspire to be more then a mindless drone that is only capable of painting the lips onto a Barbie doll.
BTW would you willing to pay some one $30K a year to do something this demanding ? if you said yes please go and get your G.E.D all though i doubt that would help, you can't teach common sense.

one last thing, for any one that claim's to be MR. USA and will only support pure made in the USA products ... get rid of your refrigerator , microwave , phone, DVD player , TV and PS2.
take the engine off your lawn mower higher an American crew with full health insurance !!!
and last but definitely not least ... get rid of your F***in computer so you can't show your stupidity to the world !

Richard Martin
04-23-2005, 09:07 AM
wow my brain hurts from reading all the opinions and miss information.
out sourcing is a good thing.
it brings costs down as well as creates jobs !!!
ya believe it or not the stuff China makes doesn't magically appear on wallmart shelfs.
it needs to be shipped here by plane , boat and truck's.

This is part of the problem. How does importing parts and whole assemblies help our local unemployed? Until those products hit our shores there is a very good chance that there are no Americans making a buck moving them. Once they hit our shores it is the same Americans moving those imported items that would be moving domestic items. Whether the item is made here or not makes no difference in distribution, they still need to be moved about the country.

you live in America you have a chance at an education and a good paying job. aspire to be more then a mindless drone that is only capable of painting the lips onto a Barbie doll. BTW would you willing to pay some one $30K a year to do something this demanding ?

That all depends on where you live in America. Not every place has a booming economy. Not every place has mile after mile of big expensive homes. It's not a matter of aspiring to get a better job or a good education. For way too many people it is simply a matter of surviving.

If you live in a county that only has 15 or 20 thousand people living in it and the main employer moves his trailer toilet manufacturing operation to Mexico what are you supposed to do?

Manufacturing jobs are extremely important to America. Manufacuring is what built this country. What do you think won World War II? It was America's ability to produce men and materials faster than the Axis powers. China already has way more men, do you to give them all of the manufacturing ability too?

Doc_77
04-23-2005, 11:03 AM
if we manufactured every thing in house or i should say in the USA, we wouldn't be able to afford our own good's much less sell them to other country's... at least right now we wouldn't.

times change. demand on some products decrees , technology advances and new skills are needed while old ones become obsolete and people lose jobs. this is just the way the world works and has for 1000's of years.
in time the jobs we send over seas will become obsolete as well.

alot of work in manufacturing plants do not require humans. automation and robotics will some day < probably fairly soon > remove the human element from the manufacturing plants. it's cheaper and less dangerous.
it is taking away job's that most people don't want and replacing it with job's a skilled worker would want ... we will need a lot of people to repair and maintain these new machines.

why not instead of bitching and complaining about unskilled workers losing jobs ... why don't we spend our time and tax dollars educating these people in new fields of work ?
maybe train them and help them find new jobs or start new business's ?

i wish i didn't post in this thread , i should have kept my mouth shut.
i hate talking about this stuff.
every one has an opinion and every one thinks they are right. < me included >
unfortunately not every one will be able to agree on what the right thing to do is and the problem will never be solved.

kawasakitech
04-23-2005, 07:37 PM
Kawasaki air-cooled engines are made in Maryville, Missouri in the good old USA

freddyc
04-23-2005, 10:02 PM
Last yr I went to the 4th of July parade.

While I stood there, one group of veterans came by and handed me a small flag to wave. As the rest of the parade went by, I proudly held up my American flag and waved it with great energy. After about 15 minutes, I noticed there was writing on the small wooden handle.

I looked close--- it said "made in China".

I freaked out, threw it away and went home. When we can't even make our own flags I give up!
:realmad: :angry: :cry:

Spirit Lanwcare
04-23-2005, 10:38 PM
I really didn't know that Stihl was really German. I honestly thought that they were american. I guess because of the large manufacturing plant they have in Virgina Beach, Virginia. Stihl says made in USA while other equipment says assembeled in USA. You right I guess, most companies outsource so several parts are foreign made. I know the Zama carburetors on Stihl are made in China.


Stihl has manufacturing plants in Germany and Mexico pumping out units as well as here in the USA. Totally German owned however. BTW RedMax boxes say "Made in USA" and they don't even have a manufacturing plant here! Don't pay a whole lot of attention to those stickers.

The Redhawk mowers are a very decent machine for the money. I own one so I should know. It's really easy to criticize something that you know nothing about! Most of the parts (engine, tranny, tires and wheels etc.) are US sourced and they are assembled in China. Parts and servicing dealers are readily available in my area. Great value for the money and the quality of cut and striping is excellent! I'll take the $600 I saved on this mower and put it in my pocket for now!