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mkirby
01-25-2005, 04:02 AM
Hi
I have been reading for 2 days now and am more confused then ever.
I have been doing resedential snow removal 15 years now (houses and walks).
I have decided I need a skid steer for some parking lots but mostly for double car driveways in condo complexes. I have been renting a 710 bobcat which I find nice in tight areas but very tippy for loading snow into trucks.
I was about to buy a S150 today since that seems to be the popular choice among contractors around here but after I went to JD dealership today I was sold on the 317. Then I visited 3 differen't forums bashing John deere today so now im stuck.
Please fill me in on the pros and cons.
I thought the JD would be better b/c it seemed more stable and I thought it would be easier for loading snow into a truck then the bobcat( don't have to get so close to truck to dump in it?) I've read good things about cat on here but even though there is a huge cat dealer here nobody has them for clearing snow ( bobcat has 90% market and case 5%)
I know nothing about these machines( 2 speed, vertical lift vs.?)
I need to be able to get in and out of 2 card driveways, clear small parking lots and load the snow into trucks.

Appreciated and thanks Mike

wroughtn_harv
01-25-2005, 08:08 AM
"Tippy" is a state of mind. And it is good for the heart, keeps it pumping. A little practice and you find that tipping is great fun and really an advantage. It works like this. When you dump it first goes a little forward and then it rares back on the rear wheels. It's then you do your one eighty. Less tire wear, and not just anyone can do it. Great fun.

Seriously, the small foot print so you can manuever in tight spaces means a short wheel base and with a short wheel base you're going to have an exaggerated response to removing a load in the dump cycle. The more stable feeling machines have a bigger foot print.

If I was working parking lots and around other people's stuff I'd seriously look at JCB. They have a single arm and the best field of vision on any skid steer. Because of the door they won't take add on tracks but there is a tracked version available.

TURF DOCTOR
01-25-2005, 09:26 AM
I have 2 buddies that was used bobcat skid sters, they have said catipiller is they way to go.

Tigerotor77W
01-25-2005, 10:52 AM
As much as this seems blasphemous, I do believe that if you are looking for a smaller skid steer with vertical lift (you mentioned loading trucks), the Deere is the way to go. I'm pretty confident they have cleaned up their line quite nicely and will no longer have those plagues that follow them around. However, keep in mind the 300 series is relatively new... if you do plan to use them hard, you *may* be in for a surprise at 750 hours (or sometime down the line). Do be aware, in any case, that the Deere 317 isn't quite the same machine as the Bobcat S150 (or S160 for that matter). The 317, for one, outweighs the S150 (adding to the notion of "stability") and also is in a different ROC class than the S150. So watch out for that. If a Komatsu salesman tries to put you in a SK1020 and you notice it's even more stable, well, that's because it weighs even more and has a ROC of 2200 pounds.

I would also suggest taking a look at the Cat. Their vertical lift may not have the best visibility in the industry, but their hand controls are quite smooth, a feature that I am sure you will appreciate in the winter.

If you have any other questions, let us know.

mkirby
01-25-2005, 01:16 PM
Thanks allot guys
The deere looks and feels nice - I think once I get used to the handles I will like it better then peddles. This machine will be babied b/c I will be the operator and will have very low hours after several years. It will be parked in the summer b/c I am so busy in the summer with lawn care.
I really like this 710 I used time to time but I think I need something better if I am going to get into it more? but it was nice for whipping in and out of stalls.
Is it hard to load trucks with the 710?
The guy I am renting it from is trading it in next week for the s300 bobcat if I were to make him an offer what do you think it is worth? 1000 hours, 1999 good shape!
Thanks Mike
How long have these 300 series been out and have they been provin to be better then there predecessor?

jreiff
01-25-2005, 02:56 PM
Go to each sidsteer dealer that you are considering to buy and tell them that you are serious about buying and would like to see ifyou could demo that machine. test it out, run it hard and see what you think. Do this to all the models that you are considering and then go from there. See what one works best for you. How well you feel in the machine and how good you operate it.

Hope that helps alittle...

ksss
01-25-2005, 04:14 PM
The suggestion about running different machines and deciding for yourself is very valid. Every one on the board has their preference. I like CASE machines, but something else maybe better suited for your operation. I have never heard of a 1999 Bobcat 710. A 751 maybe what your refering to. I have heard of Bobcat 610 that is very old (I had a model 600). Some of the features I think you will want to look for is a Two speed (that option alone will make you more money), maybe high flow hydraulics if you plan on running a snow blower, and of course a cab with heat. I would also plan on a set of cables to run over the tires for added traction. If your loading full size dump trucks, then a 700 series Bobcat will feel small. As stated, the more stable the machine the bigger it is. The larger machines have a 6' print and smaller about 5' depending on wheel and tire options. I would also look at cost. If your only moving snow with it you will be having push a lot of snow to justify a 30+K skid steer. Vertical lift is help full when loading trucks. However, because snow is lighter than dirt pushing the snow across to the other side of the truck is not a big deal. The radial machines tend to cost less and have better visibility. Good luck.

mkirby
01-25-2005, 04:35 PM
yes I meant 751 sorry - no idea where i got 710 from.
1000 hours
1999
good shape
how much you think its worth ballpark?
yes i will only be pushing snow so as much as I love the cat I went to try today its to much from a bussiness stand point.
mike

ksss
01-25-2005, 06:37 PM
I would estimate in the 8 to 10K range. They (751's) are small around 1350 Operating Capacity, 38 Hp and 14 Gpm on the aux. hyd. (these are approx. rating as I remember). The resale values are not as high as some others due to its low capacity. However for pushing snow they would be fine. One way to approach it may be to offer the owner what he will get in trade for the s300 plus sales tax. I checked Ritchie Bros. for auction results on a 99-751. They averaged between 10-12.5 Can. and $7500 to $10000 in the USA. Good luck

Tigerotor77W
01-25-2005, 06:49 PM
Pretty much exactly what ksss said. I'd expect the Deere dealer to give you some rebates (simply because he'll want your business), so if you mention you're looking around, he might lower his price a bit for the 317. If you'll be loading trucks, vertical lift does help quite a bit (as mentioned), but if the price isn't feasible, well, either go used (but perhaps not Deere) or try to make do with a smaller unit like the 751 you mentioned.

300 series = 200 series II in many ways. But yes they are better than the original 200 series in several ways. They've been mentioned in other posts, so at the sake of repetition, you might want to search and see if you can get the info by searching.

jd270
01-26-2005, 01:44 AM
not every one has had such bad luck with the 2oo sieries i have a 2000 madel that i got in 01 and it has been in the shop once to have a block heater instaled i have a lot of friends and know a lot of other deere owners that feel the same way

jgl1962
01-26-2005, 09:42 AM
If you like the vertical lift....try a Bobcat S175 (used to be 773). Any of them have the vertical lift, same wheelbase as the S150. The main advantage to the Bobcat is that you can see what your doing and if your moving snow in tight quarters that's important. I would encourage you to sit in the JD and the Bobcat and look out at the corners of the bucket and down through the sides to see where your tires are. Straight out the back JD visibility is good, it's not so good in the other 3 directions.

I'm telling you to sit in both and see for yourself as I'm biased as far as Bobcat goes (they feed my family).

I do believe the new JD's are improved as far as reliability over the old 2 series....but their ergonomics are much the same.

BTW $8K US is about right on the 751.

mkirby
01-26-2005, 04:23 PM
Thanks
I like the visual on the bobcat allot more so that is where I will be going with it.
I live in Canada , Saskatchewan to be exact and the 751 here is 15k canadian at the dealer for 800 hours. The private deal I was looking at wants 14k can. Its seems to me the prices are high here from what I have seen so far.
S150 is 32k before extras and taxes.

Tigerotor77W
01-26-2005, 06:28 PM
jgl1962 is pretty accurate about both Deere's visibility and ergonomics. It's also a good idea to sit on the machines and work a bit.

ksss
01-26-2005, 08:13 PM
14k Can. equals how much in Dollars 11-12K? If that is the case I would shop it. I found several CASE (I am sure there is also BObcat machines on there as well) machines on Point2.com in Canada (BC I believe). I would never pay that kind of money for a 751 but that is me. On a separate note. I have been to Regina and toured the RCMP museum as well as a Goverment Mint. Very cool city.

chechnya
01-26-2005, 09:48 PM
Definatly look at the New Holland, esp. the NH LS170. What an awesome skid steer to drive and its longer than alot of skid steers so it wont flip so easily.

Scag48
01-26-2005, 10:16 PM
Deere might have some nice options, but I can't get myself to spend $30,000 on their smallest machine that isn't much bigger than our Cat 216. I took a look at a new Deere 317 with a few options on it at an ag expo and the dealer wanted $30,000 for it. I thought our Cat was expensive! Although steel prices have increased, they haven't increased THAT much. In august 2003 we bought a brand new Cat 216 with quite a few options and combo bucket for $23,000, tax included. The argument for and against vertical lift could go on for days. Personally, I hate vertical lift. I ran a Cat 242 and I absolutely hated not being able to see because the lift arms were in the way. Plus, vertical lift doesn't grade very well at all. Radial lift works much better for digging and grading. Deere has done a good job with visibility, which is probably the best in the industry out the back. But, I don't know about visibility to the sides, seems the lift arms wouln't allow you to see the tires, a big no-no for close-in work. I also don't like Deere's controls at all. Nothing beats Cat's pilot operated sticks. And now, the B-series are even better than the original series. Anyway, hope my information was useful.

Tigerotor77W
01-26-2005, 11:53 PM
To each his own about vertical lift and controls... but I'd be surprised if Deere were selling their skids expensively. They need to get back in the market and if anything, they'll be cutting their prices wayyyy down. But different in various areas I suppose.

If looking at the NH line, might as well go for Ls180+, because that's where the meat lies.

mkirby
01-27-2005, 02:05 AM
14k Can. equals how much in Dollars 11-12K? If that is the case I would shop it. I found several CASE (I am sure there is also BObcat machines on there as well) machines on Point2.com in Canada (BC I believe). I would never pay that kind of money for a 751 but that is me. On a separate note. I have been to Regina and toured the RCMP museum as well as a Goverment Mint. Very cool city.

yes i have been looking there and if you compare prices the us machines come in 20% cheaper.
873 bobcat same year as us. is 30k canadian vs 20k us.