View Full Version : T-190 vs Cat 267
01-28-2005, 02:57 AM
I'm stuck. I've been looking at Bobcat T-190 and the Cat 257B or 267. I can get a new 04 267 for the price of 05 257B. The T-190 salesman does nothing but put down the Cat's. I realize he is trying to sell me a unit. I don't know which way to go. there both nice machines. I'm not crazy about the controls in the T190. Foot controls seem ancient. The Cat has great contols...especially with owning and operating tractors with buckets for so long. The T190 dealer is relatively close...Cat is not. I've read some of the posts and looks like nobody says too much bad about cats. I guess I'm looking for input on each machine. The T190 comes loaded a/c gold pkg heat. The cats would just be cab and heat...
01-28-2005, 12:41 PM
I'll be honest with you... I think the Cat unit is a better machine. However, if you can't afford to be too far away from your dealer, well, there's really not a choice for you. The T190 has a MUCH firmer ride and was at one point underpowered for its size (contractors complained about the engine stalling or lugging too often, especially in turns). I won't go into the physics of that because it's irrelevant directly to your decision; what I will say is that Bobcat has tried to correct it. The T190 isn't a BAD machine; I just think that if you want a 267 (not a B series?), it might be a better bet. Do realize it is a much larger machine and the track system also has its drawbacks. (Someone mentioned that after a full day of clay work, the tracks were getting so warm that the mud was literally steaming and being baked onto the undercarriage. I've got to get going, so if anyone else wants to chime in, go for it! I'll post more later if you have other questions.
01-28-2005, 05:40 PM
I'm new to this forum, but I noticed that the new CAT 267 is now turbocharged. The old one was underpowered. While was surfing the web I also noticed that ASV (I think CAT owns part of the company) just introduced a new machine they call the RCV. they say that the reach is 34" and the lift height is 131. I think it is their first vertival lift machine. I'm not sure what your needs are, but it may be worth looking at if you have a dealer near you.
01-29-2005, 01:10 AM
its not a "B" series. The Bobcat guy is crazy about telling me how Cat is really not a great machine...Yes it's bigger...but in all honesty I'm only buying 1 of these for a good long time...for me Cat's it...Bobcat dealer just won't let up...Bobcat is just a rough riding machine...The 267 is a 2004 with 0 hours and cab/heat...70 horse...I can't go wrong...can I?
01-29-2005, 01:37 AM
Not at all, you will be impressed with the Cat. Bobcat is losing a part of the market quickly, regardless of what anyone says. I see more innovation from companies such as Gehl than I do with Bobcat. Bobcat was pretty much the leader for the last 40 years, until everyone else jumped in and started throwing out better products. Cat came late into the game only about 7 years ago and already has more innovations than Bobcat knows what to do with. You will thank yourself for going with the Cat one day after running it with those pilot joysticks, they are much smoother words just can't describe. You will out maneuver any machine with hand/foot controls any day and will get jobs done faster, period. I've tried both, and I hate foot controls. They're sloppy, inconsistent, and pulling your arms back and forth all day isn't a whole lot of fun. I'm not really impressed with Bobcat's hand controls either. Pilot controls are much smoother and consistent. Bobcat needs to step it up in the R&D department if they're going to stay competitive in the skid steer market for the long term. They have great cabs on their machines and they throw around operator ergonomics as a selling point, but when it flat comes down to it, getting work done fast is what this business is about. I'm probably going to eat alot of cr@p for that one, but I'm telling straight truth. Now if you want a great Bobcat product, try out their new ZHS 400 series excavators. Now there's some igreat improvement. payup
01-29-2005, 10:39 AM
I'll take up the issue later (I just typed a response to scag) if someone wants to contest. I'm of the opinion everyone is entitled to their own ideas and opinions... so if scag wants to believe that, I have no right not to let him do so.
If you want the Cat, tell the Bobcat dealer he doesn't seem like he's trying to sell or endorse his product, only that he's belittling his competitor. Make sure you make him understand that you believe the Cat is a better unit. No one can predict the future here; while in theory the Cat should be a reliable machine, you won't know unless it fails.
01-31-2005, 02:52 PM
Now the Bobcat dealer has come back at me with...Ready for this...A 2005 T-250 with cab/heat and hand controls for same as Cat 267. They will also throw in newer susp seat and the rental of any 5 attachments I want. This is getting crazy. The 250 has 81 horse and only ways 200 or so more lbs. Am I the only guy buying a skidsteer in Buffalo this winter? I have not operated a T-250 so don't know what I'm really dealing with. The Cat salesman is giving me some time in the 267 on Wed....I'm really confused as to which way to go. The T-190 I had for demo was awful riding and the foot controls had me hating that thing...What's different with the T-250. Hell I don't know any more...and to make matters worse the Cat salesman is saying "gotta commit soon, the 267 deal won't be around long". Help, please
01-31-2005, 04:23 PM
I tried the new Bobcat "hand controls" at a show. I think that they call them EH controls because the joystick actuates a solenoid to control the pump. I didn't think they were near as smooth as the CAT skid steers hydraulic pilot controls. As far as the ride goes...if the T190 was rough, the T250 will be just as rough. I think the only difference in the undercarriages is that the T250 has one more middle roller. I also heard that the Bobcat has a hard time pushing snow because it doesn't have a suspension and acts just like a wheeled machine...the front of the tracks come up off of the ground when you push down on the bucket edge. Just my two cents.
I read that Bobcat250 already responded to Scags' post privately but I must also respond. Although never in my professional career has anyone ever accused me of being a Bobcat supporter, this will be the second time that I must refute what is said about Bobcat. I don't buy their machines and I don't buy CAT either, so perhaps I can provide a non-biased assessment of Scags response.
" Not at all, you will be impressed with the Cat. Bobcat is losing a part of the market quickly, regardless of what anyone says. I see more innovation from companies such as Gehl than I do with Bobcat."
Scag please. Bobcat's innovation has helped maintain their market share. Cat is just now at 10% market share. Considering the market share Cat has in the heavier market (a percentage I don't know, but I know it to be more than ten percent), they still haven't convienced all the CAT guys of the merits of the CAT skid steer. Bobcat remains the the market share leader at around 45%. I think if you look at the machines Bobcat has put out you'll see they are atleast innovative (perhaps not the best execution of the innovation). They have to be innovative. Its all they do and their product lines support that. CASE, CAT, DEERE don't live off of the compact market, their R&D money splits among their entire product line as do their profits. I don't feel BOBCAT has the most productive machine available. However, after running them both side by side a CAT is no more productive than a BOBCAT at least for basic loader duties. If anything we found that the Bobcat outperformed the CAT in hard dig applications. (CAT 246 VS BC250 ). If you want to pass on how happy you are with your machine great. We all do that. But statements like
"They have great cabs on their machines and they throw around operator ergonomics as a selling point, but when it flat comes down to it, getting work done fast is what this business is about. I'm probably going to eat alot of cr@p for that one, but I'm telling straight truth".
Your asking for someone to call BS, because that's what it is.
The new ZHS excavators are having some "new machine" issues themselves. Maybe in the future be a "great" product but I am sure not even sure BOBCAT would honestly give the ZHS that title yet.
02-02-2005, 06:41 PM
Ooops, I typed a response to him publicly (here, in this thread) but decided I didn't want to suddenly snap, so I deleted my original reply and replaced it with the one that you see.
Okay, on a happier note... let us know how the demos go! (The T250 isn't going to be much easier of a ride... perhaps the controls are smoother if they set you up with a Selectable Joystick Control machine, but no other manufacturer other than Cat/ASV offers the suspended undercarriage. As for performance? 277 is a good machine... 267 is similar enough to 277... so 267 should be a good machine. T250 is great, too, but in my opinion, too big. Just like the S220 is too big. But ah well, let us know how it goes.)
02-02-2005, 11:20 PM
ksss, Bobcat has created innovations that everyone else is putting on their machines. Power quick couplers, high flow hydraulics and control systems, everything. If you look at Cat has done with their skid steers, they have built on top Bobcat's innovations to create what they call a better machine, and rightly so, taking the idea of one and improving it beyond past standards. I never meant to say that Bobcat never had a great new idea, I'm just saying that everyone else is putting Bobcat's ideas that on their machine PLUS others enhancements to take it to a higher level. The way I figure it, one machine is going to do something better than another, guaranteed. For us, the Cat is a solid workhorse that is easy to operate, easy to maintain, and has great features that make my life easier. Personally, I don't see Bobcat blowing the doors off Cat. If they are such an innovative company and requires those innovations to keep making money, why aren't they coming out with ideas that are blowing the competition out of the water? One of the reasons that they are holding their 45% market is because of their reputation of being first in the business. I'm not saying they're a bad company or that they make a bad machine, I'm just saying it's brand loyal buyers that keep going back to Bobcat. This is fine and good, their market, in my eyes, are people that have bought a Bobcat before and will go back. Good for them, their machine worked out and I wouldn't expect them to change brands. On another note, there are other companies out there right now making a Bobcat in a different color that will do just as much and more and until Bobcat comes out with a product that is going to put the competition at it's knees, newer companies buying skid steers for the first time are going to look at other brands other than settling for a Bobcat. What I'm saying is that Bobcat doesn't have "monopoly" on the skid steer market anymore and people are realizing that.
Now, I apologize for sounding like a jackass, that was not my intent. I'm simply saying that my Bobcat experience wasn't good at all. I personally don't like hand and foot controls at all and Bobcat's hand controls aren't nearly the quality of Cat's. And yes, I am alot more productive with my Cat vs. Bobcat and that's how I feel about that. I'm merely informing new skid steer buyers that they don't have to be lured into Bobcat's product just because Bobcat has been around the longest, there are other brands out there that are just as good if not better.
My only reason for responding was this. Blanket statements about productivity, innovation, etc. are dangerous unless they are supported by first hand examples (experience) or hard facts. Even then they are yours (and my) experiences and may not be applicable to everyone. I believe that CASE makes the most productive skid steers, on the planet bar none. I have 10 years experience and 12 machines in that time to back up my belief. However, I try to steer clear from blanket statements about CASE machines without some supportive information relative to what is asked. I see nothing wrong with "waving the flag" of the manufacturer that you buy machines from. However, a lot of people come to this site and read what is written to gain information about equipment. Making statements that are based more on experience and reason instead of emotion, are far more helpful to someone making buying decisions and looking for objective information about a machine.
In retrospect I should have let my thoughts lay for a while before hitting reply. I could have been more articulate and PC.
02-05-2005, 12:45 PM
I've demo'd them both and my money is getting saved for a Cat.
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