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View Full Version : 2002 GMC 2500 Crewcab 4x4


onemilmhz
01-31-2005, 10:39 PM
I am thinking of buying out a guys residential business and this truck is part of the deal. Anyone have any experience with them? I am a Ford guy myself but my dad has owned his Chevy 1500 for a year now and I have come to like it. The one that I am looking at is a 2500 but NOT desiel. This was my first concern as I am not looking forward to paying for gas in a 8.1L! Any body have one of these that can give me some pointers?

LLandscaping
01-31-2005, 10:59 PM
We had a 2002 Chevy 2500HD ext. cab 4x4 with the 6.0 gas motor and trade it in 2004 for the same truck with the Duramax diesel. The 2002 got about 9-10mpg towing our 7x16 open trailer and the Duramax gets about 14-15mpg towing. We traded because of the fuel mileage. I know o-so-n-so on here has a 2500HD 4x4 with the 8.1 and I think he said he gets about 8mpg most of the time.

onemilmhz
01-31-2005, 11:40 PM
:eek: 8 MPG! I was thinking 12-13 at the worst. And I thought my 5.4L was bad.

YardPro
02-01-2005, 06:58 PM
we have an 04 2500 with the 6.0

like the truck a lot
no issues to date ( only have 6K miles though)

Smalltimer1
02-01-2005, 08:08 PM
I am thinking of buying out a guys residential business and this truck is part of the deal. Anyone have any experience with them? I am a Ford guy myself but my dad has owned his Chevy 1500 for a year now and I have come to like it. The one that I am looking at is a 2500 but NOT desiel. This was my first concern as I am not looking forward to paying for gas in a 8.1L! Any body have one of these that can give me some pointers?

What do you consider important in a truck?

onemilmhz
02-01-2005, 09:29 PM
What do you consider important in a truck?
Good question. Let's see, there has to be a blend of towing power and comfort, and because I hunt it has to be capable off-road. That's why I like Ford Super Duties but I have come to find that my dad's Chevy is most of the above as well, eventhough it's not four wheel drive. I guess I would like it to be fuel efficiant too but come on, it's a towing vehicle. The auto maker that builds a truck that tows like a desiel but sips gas like a hybrid will own the world!

Smalltimer1
02-01-2005, 11:21 PM
Good question. Let's see, there has to be a blend of towing power and comfort, and because I hunt it has to be capable off-road. That's why I like Ford Super Duties but I have come to find that my dad's Chevy is most of the above as well, eventhough it's not four wheel drive. I guess I would like it to be fuel efficiant too but come on, it's a towing vehicle. The auto maker that builds a truck that tows like a desiel but sips gas like a hybrid will own the world!

This is just what I've heard, but the Dodge 2500's with the Hemi lack low end to be an effective puller and get as poor of mileage as the 8.1. The 8.1 has been getting 6-10 mpg consistently (driven one of those). The Ford V-10 gets 10-12 (I've driven them enough to know).

What scares me about the GM twins is that there is nothing under the front fenders to support it in the event of a crash. The front fenders support the radiator, grille, front fascia, and other external components. The Fords have a substructure underneath in addition to the fenders to support the radiator and other components.

CNE
02-06-2005, 10:46 AM
Just a little info. I am a technician at a GM dealer full time and part time LCO. I have not seen any major mechanical problems with the 6.0 or the 8.1. 2500 is a good truck but I would probably think about the Duramax over the gas for mileage reasons. The 2500 with the 8.1 doesn't even have a fuel mileage rating on the window sticker.

grassman2001
02-06-2005, 11:43 AM
I have an 04 2500hd and so far I have a had no problems with it. I tows very well. I get just over 10 miles per gallon with it and it is a 6.0. It's offroad capabilities are great. During the big snow storm we had here in early december it handled hills and everything very good.

Smalltimer1
02-06-2005, 01:28 PM
Just wondering here......what happened with all the CSK/piston slapping engine problems in the Vortecs??

scottt
02-06-2005, 04:11 PM
I have a 2001 2500HD with a 6.0 and couldn't be happier with it. The mileage isn't great, 11-12mpg. Mileage doesn't seem to change much until I pull a trailer above 5k pounds or so. Plenty of power and very smooth. I wouldn't even think about getting one with the 8.1. If you really need that much power get a diesel. If you mow only the 6.0 will be more than you would ever need. The only thing I've had to do to it is change fluids, filters and replace a windshied washer hose. So far it's the best truck I've ever owned.

Smalltimer,
I've been watching this issue also as I have one of the engines, but it hasn't caused me any problems yet. Maybe a little ticking when it's cold for a minute or so, then it's back to normal. The only place I've heard of any major problems is on the internet. Everyone personally spoken to has only had the slight tick when cold like mine. I guess I'll have to wait until I get closer to 150k or so to see if it's just a bunch of Chevy haters or if there really is a problem.

onemilmhz
02-06-2005, 06:33 PM
FWIW, I had a 2000 F150 with the 5.4L engine. The assembly plant where the engine was built apparently had a problem with a few engines and piston slap several years ago which turned into an issue on the internet. When I bought the truck I did A LOT of research and read a ton of crap about it. As it turns out it was a very minor issue only affecting a few thousand trucks. Take into consideration the hundreds of thousands sold each year and the percentage of trucks affected was like .0001! I don't know much about the issue with the GM engines but these things tend to get blown out of proportion on the net. People with problems far outweigh happy customers in cyberspace as the ones with issues are online trying to find solutions while the others are out enjoying their trucks!

onemilmhz
02-06-2005, 06:36 PM
As for the truck in question, we are now looking into buying out a different, much larger company with an Isuzu and more equipment. The original business we were eyeing is still for sale so it will stay on the backburner but we're concentrating on this new one and should know something this week. Maybe just as well as the 8.1 seems to be a gas hog with no real benefits over the Duramax which I have heard nothing but praise for. Thanks for all the replies.

CNE
02-06-2005, 07:38 PM
That's funny, I've been a GM tech for almost 17 years now and I've NEVER worked on a truck with a piston slap!! Never heard of it either. The only thing the older 5.7's did was tick a little when first started and that went away quickly. The newer 4.8's and 5.3's have had slight problems with carbon buildup on top of the pistons causing a tap when cold but that can be corrected with a cleaning process at the dealer. They also have had sticky throttle plates which is easily corrected.

kubotazd21
02-06-2005, 08:46 PM
I have the Duramax in a 03 2500hd extended cab 4x4. I love it. I have a 28 foot travel trailer I pull behind it and it pulls it as fast as I want to go. I have got as good as 19 mpg with the cruise on, and pulling the travel trailer I get around 14 to 15 mpg. The only negative thing is the price of diesel, which is right at $2.00 per gallon around here...

CNE
02-06-2005, 09:47 PM
You can really wake the duramax up with a power programmer too. We have one customer at the dealership with a duramax with performance exhaust, power programmer and propane injection. That thing flies. It'll light the tires at a 30 mph roll-on. Propane is like nitrous for a diesel.

Smalltimer1
02-06-2005, 11:00 PM
That's funny, I've been a GM tech for almost 17 years now and I've NEVER worked on a truck with a piston slap!! Never heard of it either. The only thing the older 5.7's did was tick a little when first started and that went away quickly. The newer 4.8's and 5.3's have had slight problems with carbon buildup on top of the pistons causing a tap when cold but that can be corrected with a cleaning process at the dealer. They also have had sticky throttle plates which is easily corrected.


www.pistonslap.com will provide the info you are looking for on CSK and piston slap, apparently GM engineering thought they could cut weight by shortening the piston skirts, therefore causing the knocking and noises that were complained about. The other thing that was brought up was intake gaskets going bad at 60,000 miles on the 96-00 350's.

pottstim
02-07-2005, 12:45 AM
www.pistonslap.com will provide the info you are looking for on CSK and piston slap, apparently GM engineering thought they could cut weight by shortening the piston skirts, therefore causing the knocking and noises that were complained about. The other thing that was brought up was intake gaskets going bad at 60,000 miles on the 96-00 350's.


:rolleyes:
More GM bashing from Smalltimer. Man, you sound like a broken record. Are you employed by Ford Motor Company on the side, or are you just oblivious to the fact that Ford is having many serious issues right now as we speak? Take a look over at Plowsite.com and read about the TorqShift tranny problems. I am a GM fan, but I am not blinded to the extent that I can't admit they don't have any problems. I will also admit that I believe that Ford builds a very good truck overall, I do like them and respect them. They all have their problems like it or not.

Smalltimer1
02-07-2005, 12:37 PM
:rolleyes:
More GM bashing from Smalltimer. Man, you sound like a broken record. Are you employed by Ford Motor Company on the side, or are you just oblivious to the fact that Ford is having many serious issues right now as we speak? Take a look over at Plowsite.com and read about the TorqShift tranny problems. I am a GM fan, but I am not blinded to the extent that I can't admit they don't have any problems. I will also admit that I believe that Ford builds a very good truck overall, I do like them and respect them. They all have their problems like it or not.

I all but worked at the local dealer this past summer and not ONE came in with a transmission related problem. The only transmission problem that came in was an older F-250 (late 80's) with a bad valve body in the transmission.

I am not blind to Ford's problems, but they are not as big and bad as you GM lovers make it seem. :laugh: I never liked the AOD or AODE transmissions myself.

The piston slap thing is something GM has known about since 1997, and they have done little or nothing to correct it to this day. Ford has constantly been updating the TS because that is a big selling point.

Anyway you should be thankful for competition because we get better products from it.

I mean I grew up with GM products so I believe I know what I'm talking about. I decided when it was time for me to get a truck that I would get a Ford, because the ones I had been around before had been great while our Chevys were always getting something fixed.

onemilmhz
02-07-2005, 07:38 PM
Ford has constantly been updating the TS because that is a big selling point.
Amen. This is a BIG reason I am a happy Ford customer. I have owned and loved many Fords (as well as two Camaros so don't start). Ford has always alerted me to a possible problem well before it affected me, if ever. I got an engine replaced in a Taurus for free due to a radiator defect nearly 40,000 miles AFTER the warranty expired. I was ready to pay through the nose but did a little research and found a TSB on it. Not only did my dealers service manager know about the bulletin he even used it to replace some other parts in the cooling system that although not directly related had been improved upon. In all I had $3500 worth of work done for nothing. GM has some good products I'll admit but Fords customer service and TS bulletins in the event of problems keep me loyal.

CNE
02-07-2005, 09:58 PM
I guess my reply never made it. It went something like this. Yes, you are right about the intake gaskets. They leak like no tomorrow. But, the gaskets have been redesigned and we have had no return failures with new style, Here's another news flash for you, the newer 4.8, 5.3 intakes are leaking too. But, they don't leak coolant as they are a dry intake. They are sucking air around the gaskets. Mostly the Z code engines. They surface as a Service Engine Soon light, rough idle. Misfiring and lean fuel mixture codes set. Usually a P0300 and P0171. GM has also had major sun shell and valve body problems with the 4L60E transmissions too. So, I ain't saying we don't have problems, just no "piston slap" that I have heard anything about. I have been with GM a long time and have never seen a piston replaced in a 5.7. Never even heard of it. Now any more questions or have I proven my knowledge? Does anybody know how to mow grass?

pottstim
02-08-2005, 02:19 AM
I guess my reply never made it. It went something like this. Yes, you are right about the intake gaskets. They leak like no tomorrow. But, the gaskets have been redesigned and we have had no return failures with new style, Here's another news flash for you, the newer 4.8, 5.3 intakes are leaking too. But, they don't leak coolant as they are a dry intake. They are sucking air around the gaskets. Mostly the Z code engines. They surface as a Service Engine Soon light, rough idle. Misfiring and lean fuel mixture codes set. Usually a P0300 and P0171. GM has also had major sun shell and valve body problems with the 4L60E transmissions too. So, I ain't saying we don't have problems, just no "piston slap" that I have heard anything about. I have been with GM a long time and have never seen a piston replaced in a 5.7. Never even heard of it. Now any more questions or have I proven my knowledge? Does anybody know how to mow grass?

I have heard of the sun shell problems in the 4L60-E as well, but have never known anyone that has had one let go. Can you explain to me exactly what a sun shell is? I would appreciate it.

Smalltimer1
02-08-2005, 11:29 AM
You still don't know about it?? Here you go:

CNE
02-08-2005, 08:00 PM
Ok, before you were talking about Vortecs, I thought you were talking about the older 5.7 engine., which had no piston slap. First of all, the Tahoe in the picture is at least a 2001 which would not have the 5.7. Second, the other pictures were said to be from an 8.1 which was not in that Tahoe either. So no pictures from that guy's truck. What is that guy so pissed about? I bet the truck is still running fine. There have been some tapping (only when cold) on the 4.8, 5.3 engines which goes away when warm. This has been explained to us as carbon buildup on top of the pistons. We have corrected several of these by cleaning the pistons. I have never seen one that needed any parts replaced. Next, the so called TSB for piston replacement is on the V6 engines in the cars, not V8 in the trucks. There is a homemade copy of that on the website you provided. It is not a GM copy as they look nothing like that. The six cylinder engines have had some piston slap noise but that is not what this debate has been about now is it? I will check tomorrow if I don't forget and see if there is any newer info on this that I may not be aware of. I know for a fact, there has not been an engine with a failure in any dealership that I am familiar with, (that would be about 8 that I personally know techs at). So it seems kind of odd that this guy who owns the truck in the picture has such bad problems. Did you ever think it may be due to lack of proper maintanence? Or maybe he just didn't like the answer he was given and got mad, who knows?

CNE
02-08-2005, 08:16 PM
OK, I have read some more on the website and I stand corrected, (if it is legit documentation). Anyone could produc text for a website if they were mad enough to put that kind of effort into it. I still stick with what I said about not seeing these problems. It's odd that out of 8 dealers I know of, there has never been a failure. Not saying there hasn't been a complaint, just no failure. Now, I will research this tomorrow and I will bring you documentation if I find any. You have my word!

CNE
02-09-2005, 06:51 PM
Alright, as I said I would, I searched GM service information website today and like I said before, There is no such TSB on piston slap or piston replacement on the 4.8, 5.3, 6.0, 8.1 engines. There is also no such information of pistons that will be available in late 2002 or any other time. There is however a couple of bulletins on the noise you are talking about. There are a couple because the first one was superceded by the next. The last bulletin issued on this matter was back in 2003 and it talked about the carbon on the pistons as I mentioned before. It also says this condition is not harmful to the engine nor will it shorten the life. Now, I would be willing to bet there was more behind that guy's problem than the conditions normally found on these engines. Maybe had had a serious problem caused by something else, I don't know. I'd be willing to bet there are VERY few engines that have actually failed due to this. I think what happened is this one guy had a problem that maybe wasn't handled properly by his dealer, and he is stirring up a bunch of crap because he didn't get his way. You see, you don't just go into a dealer and demand that part X or Y be replaced just because your vehicle has a condition you are not happy with. The one paying the bill makes the call on what to replace or not to replace. Now, with that said, I know for a fact (happened at our dealership) that at least 3 customers showed real concern over the durability of their engines, so our district manager extended the engine warranty to 100,000 miles for them, no questions asked. All of the customers we had were satisfied with how it was explained to them ane NONE of them have had to replace a piston or any other part of their engine.

Smalltimer1
02-10-2005, 12:31 AM
There was several RV forums that this was brought up on and parts were replaced and there was a bunch of swearing and stuff happened, but anyway these guys were saying theirs were from 96-03 with their problems.

Smalltimer1
02-10-2005, 12:42 AM
http://www.autooninfo.net/MiniSurveyNo65GMPistonSlap.htm

http://www.mylemon.com/Piston%20Slap.html

http://www.seattlesilverado.com/slapper.htm

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=154053

http://www.autooninfo.info/NAEd200401GMPickupNoise.htm

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?threadid=27406

http://www.expage.com/gmformletters

http://www.thesqueakywheel.com/complaints/complaint4476.cfm

http://www.nbc10.com/consumeralertarchive/2721715/detail.html

http://classlaw.info/page11.html

http://www.z06vette.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=19025

It's more widespread than you think. I'm not saying they're bad, but denying it doesn't make it go away.

onemilmhz
02-10-2005, 08:39 AM
Okay, so after reading all this stuff I still don't know, could this "slap" (that obviously does exist despite the denial of a few GM loyals here and elsewhere) affect this GMC 2500HD with the 8.1?

CNE
02-10-2005, 06:38 PM
One of the articles you posted mylemon.com something had an article from GM that described the condition and why it is present. Like I said, it is due to carbon buildup above the top ring contacting the wall. I bet you if the cylinders were cleaned of this carbon, the noise would go away. There is a process GM has to clean the tops of the pistons and the ring grooves without disassembling the engine. The spark plugs are removed and a chemical is injected on top of the pistons, it sits for 2 hours and is vacuumed out. This has corrected some that I know of and also corrected some oil consumption issues on the Cadillac Northstar engines. I am not denying that there is a concern, just saying it is not causing the engines to fail. Now, I am finished defending GM and debating this issue as it is beginning to sound like a broken record. I personally don't care if they all blow up, that gives me more work to do!

CNE
02-10-2005, 06:40 PM
:D Okay, so after reading all this stuff I still don't know, could this "slap" (that obviously does exist despite the denial of a few GM loyals here and elsewhere) affect this GMC 2500HD with the 8.1?
By the truck and don't worry about it. It'll be fine.

RedWingsDet
02-10-2005, 08:03 PM
Buy the truck!!! I BET you will love it. I'm sure if you take good care of it, and if it was taken good care of, it'll last a long long time. And I'm sure if something were to ever happen, your dealer or CNE would help you...

Another thing to think about buddy. The number of satisfied customers FAR OUTWEIGHS the dis-satisfied customers. The reason you hear about the "bad" cars and trucks online, is because the people who have the broken trucks and cars are looking online for answers, while everyone else with the good trucks and cars are out having fun.

If it helps you any with your decision, I'm buying a 2500HD in the near future. I'm just not sure if I want the 4000 (I forget the exact model) engine, or 8100 engine. What would you recommend CNE. I'd be plowing, and towing. Both lawncare stuff and landscaping, and the landscaping stuff weights ALOT.

CNE
02-11-2005, 06:13 AM
If it helps you any with your decision, I'm buying a 2500HD in the near future. I'm just not sure if I want the 4000 (I forget the exact model) engine, or 8100 engine. What would you recommend CNE. I'd be plowing, and towing. Both lawncare stuff and landscaping, and the landscaping stuff weights ALOT.[/QUOTE]


The 2500 should only come with the 6.0, 8.1, or the Duramax. You may be able to get it with the 5.3 but I doubt you could get the 4.8. That is all the choices available for GM trucks right now. I would go with the Duramax since you are going to be plowing and hauling a lot of weight.

RedWingsDet
02-11-2005, 11:39 AM
If it helps you any with your decision, I'm buying a 2500HD in the near future. I'm just not sure if I want the 4000 (I forget the exact model) engine, or 8100 engine. What would you recommend CNE. I'd be plowing, and towing. Both lawncare stuff and landscaping, and the landscaping stuff weights ALOT.


The 2500 should only come with the 6.0, 8.1, or the Duramax. You may be able to get it with the 5.3 but I doubt you could get the 4.8. That is all the choices available for GM trucks right now. I would go with the Duramax since you are going to be plowing and hauling a lot of weight.[/QUOTE]

I would like the duramax, but.... They dont have as many rebates the gassers have. Im getting over 6k in rebates with the gasser, with a diesel I dont get nearly that much, plus the duramax is $6k more. So ill settle on the gasser for now, then once diesels get more popular down the road in a few years, I'll opt for it then.

mrusk
02-11-2005, 12:48 PM
Premeir- I was in your shoes two years ago when i was 17. I went a bought a 03 2500hd ext cab 4x4 ls 6.0. I never even looked at the duramax. 3 months later i drove a dmax and regreted my choice ever since. GET THE DESIEL. Do what ever you have to to get it. If i got the desiel, it would of only costed me 100 bucks extra a month. Your'll proably save 50 bucks atleast a week in gas, and if you pack a lunch from home instead of stopping somewhere, you'll make up the other 50. TRUST me on this one. Go for the dmax/allison and never look back.
If you want to talk more about this PM me.

Matt