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Williams Services
02-03-2005, 04:13 PM
Has anyone used Merit 2.5G with any success as a preventative app, on the very light side of application? We gave an estimate for treating 30 or so azaleas, and it came out to 120 per app, which I think scared the (potential) customer off. What I was wondring is, since it was to be a preventative app anyway (lace bugs will come), would it be a sound practice to apply, instead of the labelled rate, a much lighter rate, to make the azaleas less palatable to the lace bugs, so that they move on to the next target?

If not, is there another systemic herbicide that could be used for ornamentals? I know Talstar stays in soil about 30 days, but isn't taken up by the plant, so that takes that out. What other options are there, or will this idea work?

Premo Services
02-03-2005, 05:00 PM
I am not aware of other chemicals, but applying at a lower rate than it says on the lable could be a lot of trouble. You know what they say, the lable is the law...

Here are a couple sites that you might be able to find other chemicals that might cost a little less per application.

http://www.cdms.net/manuf/manuf.asp

http://www.bluebooktor.com/Search/QuickSearch/index.asp

Green Dreams
02-03-2005, 06:15 PM
them systemic herbicides will definitely keep the lacebugs off...lol.

This is a good question for a thread...

Thanks

Williams Services
02-03-2005, 09:15 PM
Please, oh please pardon me, you great repository of helpful green industry knowledge. Your post was oh so helpful, and, since you make no mistakes, perhaps I will learn much from you, once I decrypt your post, as I'm sure thetheology contained therein has much that is hard to understand.

Premo, thanks! I am familiar with those sites, haven't had much luck but haven't dug too hard ... I was hoping the pros here could help me on the initial tip-off.

Anyone else with helpful insight to these systemic PESTicides? :p

Green Dreams
02-03-2005, 10:22 PM
Sorry if I offended you. I was just funnin' you. I make plenty o'errors, believe me. I don't care what a book/label says, experience with a product is where its at.

Your question about systemic insecticides is a good one. I hope someone can answer it. Acephate seemed to work okay for me..

Williams Services
02-03-2005, 10:59 PM
Green Dreams,
You didn't offend me, I was just looking for helpful advice, which yours wasn't - funny though it was. Have you used the acephate on lace bugs in a preventative fashion? What trade names have you used?

Neal Wolbert
02-03-2005, 11:10 PM
Williams, Are you adverse to spraying Merit at first sign of Lacebug? If not, probably one or two sprays each year will do the trick for pennies an app. Injection rates vary, i.e. adelgid maintenance rate is 1/2 the high rate after the first full rate soil injection. I'd check with the product rep. for particulars but I know it is legal in Washington to use less than label rates. Many times it is the best practice. Neal

Williams Services
02-03-2005, 11:20 PM
Neal,
Nah, we wouldn't be averse to that at all ... we're just trying to avoid the appearance of them. I know it's kinda like trying to hold back the wind, but it's a noble goal, you have to admit. :)

Neal Wolbert
02-04-2005, 02:58 AM
You do not, and should not have to hide what you know to be the best choice for your customers. You can treat azaleas and a zillion other plants safely and effectively by spraying modern products that do not pose an unreasonable risk. Why should we as an industry take a cowards role (nothing personal) and hide what we know will be the best choice for our customers just because our critics trumpet lies about us and the industry? Education, information, integrity, experience and a large dose of courage are needed to re-establish a credible presence in the mind of the consumer. We either go that way or go the highway as they say, but we do have a choice. I believe you and all of us who know the facts about the products available to us, with confidence in our methods of application and science on our side, can begin to erode the lie the public has been force fed, namely, that all sprays are poison and dangerous. But we sure can't do it by hiding or playing the great coverup we see happening today. My company serves a community that is as hot as it gets in the industry relating to anti-pesticide issues, but we have a large clientle that are smart, and desireous of taking advantage of modern, proven, effective and safe time and money saving treatments for the care of their expensive landscapes. They are willing students eager to learn and appreciate being told the truth without emotional manipulation. Smart people make the right decisions when they are told the truth. People get smart by learning the facts from people they trust. That should be you when it comes to your business. Start quoting reliable scientific sources in written form and get it out to your customers. Check out the RISE website and link to that on your invoices or on your website. It is a great tool! There are many Universities that have teaching websites that could help you out too. Get busy...learn...teach and move ahead with confidence. Okay, I'll get off my soap box for now, but this is one of my favorite subjects as you can tell. Please forgive me if I have stepped on your toes, that is not my intention. I just want to encourage you and help you succeed. I have lots of other ideas if you want to talk further. Thanks, Neal

Williams Services
02-04-2005, 11:51 AM
Neal,
I think you got up on my soap box, not yours. Well said, very well said. However, nobody's hiding, I was just trying to prevent the appearance of lace bugs, that's all. I do appreciate what you had to say, though, and please, don't hesitate to say it again. :D

Neal Wolbert
02-04-2005, 11:38 PM
Williams, I don't have any idea why I thought you were trying to hide anything after reading your reply again. It was late at night but I'm a late night guy. I don't drink or take funny stuff so I can't use that excuse. I am really sorry and will be more careful to read closer from now on. Please forgive me for implying you were caving in to pressure from the anti's. Now to the problem pest...when do you usually start to see damage from Lacebug? In our parts treating when new foliage is opening, or close to full size with Merit spray, gains very good control "without the appearance" as you noted. BTW, if you use a lot of Merit the bulk purchase or "link pak" as they call it, will save you a ton of dough. Wilbur Ellis Co. makes the offer at certain times of the year, maybe other suppliers as well. Thanks for your kind remarks, Neal

Williams Services
02-05-2005, 11:38 AM
Neal,

I'm not sure that taking it down from 45¢ per gallon would really be all that necessary, atm. I'll check into it, though ... I know I could pick up 13 lbs worth, which would cut our cost in less than half, at 20¢ per gallon, but when you're treating residences, with a minimum visit fee, why bother? JMO.

BTW, you ever come down south? If you're ever in our neck of the woods, we'll have to get together for lunch or something.

Neal Wolbert
02-05-2005, 12:39 PM
Williams, The larger purchase option would make sense in the long haul just to reduce your product cost. Merit doesn't have a shelf life issue, I don't believe, so taking a year or two to use it up wouldn't matter. I guess I'm just a bean counter at heart when it comes to buying products. $.20 gallon is $200 when you hit the 1000 gallon mark so that makes lots of sense to me, but that's me. Never been to SC or very many other places in the south but thanks for the invite. I own a small liquid fertilizer company as well as a 45 year old treatment company in Olympia, WA. I do travel a bit to trade shows and present our products to professionals like you, but only in the Northwest so far. Warm season landscapes are so totally different it would be very interesting to see how care for them. Hope you have a relaxing weekend, Neal