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CURB APPEAL NC
02-04-2005, 11:16 AM
Ive done some work for a real estate co. recently and they are telling me I need workers comp. even though i am a solo op. I can understand have liability ins. but why would I need workers comp. w/ no employees? thanx.

wbw
02-04-2005, 11:33 AM
Ive done some work for a real estate co. recently and they are telling me I need workers comp. even though i am a solo op. I can understand have liability ins. but why would I need workers comp. w/ no employees? thanx.

If you can talk with the right person, they would most likely be satisfied with a "hold harmless" agreement. If not get the insurance. The premium will be based on your payroll and you can exclude yourself.

CURB APPEAL NC
02-04-2005, 11:41 AM
So if i can exclude myself there wouldnt be anybody to insure right? How much doesthis ins. cost round about? thanks

MMLawn
02-04-2005, 11:44 AM
It's based on your per $100 of payroll and I received an unsolicted price in the mail yesterday of $3.76 per hundred. If you are the only employee than you will have to pay it based on your payroll. Also some companies won't insure that way.

mastercare
02-04-2005, 02:46 PM
The Real estate place wants to make sure that if you trip and fall, you won't ue them. They need to be assured that if an accident happens while you're working, that your company will take care of the problem, not them. Larger places typically require it. If you're working solo like me, I would speak to them and explain that as a solo operation, you're not required to carry it, since your regular health plan covers accidents. And, explain that it would be a ridiculous thing to pay for if you're only using it on one person (who's already insured) and for one job. I'm sure you could put something in writing saying that you understand the dangers and hazards of working on their property, and that you take responsibility for those.

Not sure if it'd work, but put a clause in there saying you're not responsible for the negligence of other people. For example: A customer comes into the office. As they're leaving, they don't see you on the sidewalk and run you down. You don't want something in writing saying that you'll take responsibility. That could prevent the driver of the car from having to "fix you" using his medical liability which is part of his car insurance.

Might be ridiculous.....but who knows what can happen?

Rougher83
02-04-2005, 04:27 PM
Curb Appeal NC,

Not sure how your state governs this...but in Oklahoma if you are a solo operator, or you may have up to 5 employees that are either related by blood or marriage, you do not need workers compensation insurace. You do however need to include on your invoices a signed declaration stating this or you can obtain from the state labor department a card which basically says you are exempt from needing workers compensation. In short (I know too late huh), I would check with your local/state labor department. Hope this helps.

tiedeman
02-04-2005, 04:44 PM
here in Michigan you do not need workers comp insurance for a solo operation. Even if you were to get it, you and your wife are not covered under it if you get hurt on the job. Its basically a waste of money. That is why you need health insurance

specialtylc
02-04-2005, 10:32 PM
Here in Washington workmans comp is not available to the business owners and or executives. If it was I would buy it for myself. Because of that I buy private loss of income and accident insurance for myself and business partner.

grass-scapes
02-09-2005, 06:59 PM
I am in NC, Mostly a solo operation and I carry workers compensation. A couple of the larger accounts require it. I dug deep and found out why. Even though I am a contractor for this client, he can be charged for my "salary" on HIS workers compensation bill. If I am carrying my own WC, he doesn't have to pay.
It also covers me if I have to hire someone for a few weeks during the busy season. My coverage is for up to a certain amount of payroll (around the 20,000 dollar mark) Cant remember my exact cost, but its not cheap but not unreasonable either. I consider it a cost of doing business.

j fisher
02-09-2005, 08:52 PM
It's called a "Ghost Policy" Some commercial businesses require you to have workers comp even if your a sole operator. It protects them from being responsible if your injured while on there property. The reason it's called a ghost policy is that even if you have it and your injured, it does not cover you. Only employees, which you have none. You need to consider it a cost of doing business, if you want these accounts.

muddstopper
02-10-2005, 11:55 PM
It's based on your per $100 of payroll and I received an unsolicted price in the mail yesterday of $3.76 per hundred. If you are the only employee than you will have to pay it based on your payroll. Also some companies won't insure that way.

Who in NC offers workers comp for $3.76 per $100. The quote I got last week was $9.50per $100

tiedeman
02-11-2005, 12:57 AM
WoW $3.76!! I think I pay around $7.50 for lawn care per $100 and $9.00 for landscaping

muddstopper
02-11-2005, 07:14 PM
I checked again today, landscaping is $9.51 per $100 in NC. I dont know if lawncare is under a different section or not. The $3.76 must be for a clerk in an office.

LB1234
02-11-2005, 07:50 PM
Gentlemen also keep in mind that there is probablly a payroll minimum. It's what happened to us.

As an example...Assuming WC is $10 per $100 of payroll. Let's say I pay my one employee $8/hour. I only require this person for 16 hours per week and only require this employee for 28 weeks. Well that equates to a payroll of ~3.6k per year. Well, according to the ins. co. that would be $360 per year for WC. HOWEVER, what they don't tell you is there is a minimum payroll of $8k per year (or, obviously, whatever number they say). So now instead of paying 360/yr its 800/yr...double...for no extra coverage.

marcs lawn care
02-12-2005, 09:49 AM
This ghost policy would not cover me if i got hurt on the job? I dont think I would file a claim anyway then I would end up paying more in the end anyway.I am a solo op that has this work comp for 2 townships i do but they both pay for it i charge plenty and that is the only reason I carry it is for those townships.SO say I sign up for work comp do not decide to hire anyone and get the certificate and file $0 wages paid can i get in trouble for this ?


:realmad:

muddstopper
02-12-2005, 10:57 AM
Gentlemen also keep in mind that there is probablly a payroll minimum. It's what happened to us.

As an example...Assuming WC is $10 per $100 of payroll. Let's say I pay my one employee $8/hour. I only require this person for 16 hours per week and only require this employee for 28 weeks. Well that equates to a payroll of ~3.6k per year. Well, according to the ins. co. that would be $360 per year for WC. HOWEVER, what they don't tell you is there is a minimum payroll of $8k per year (or, obviously, whatever number they say). So now instead of paying 360/yr its 800/yr...double...for no extra coverage.

And people wonder why its so hard to figure your cost of being in business. I am sure that there are any number of people on this site that havent even checked on the cost of workerscomp insurance because they simply choose not to buy it. I am not sure what the min is for NC, I havent checked because it probably wouldnt apply to me but, I have found that minimums exist in other insurances as well. For Instance, inlandmarine coverage for equipment. If one purchases a seperate policy they might be quoted a price of $1.00 per $1000 of equipment value. this is well and good until you discover that they also have a $500 min. premium. So instead of paying $200 per year for $20,000 worth of equipment you are forced to pay the Minumum premium of $500 or 2 1/2 times normal prices. To combat some of these minimums one can combine policies such as their general liability insurance and the inland marine. This will eliminate the minimum premium. Ex. $1mil. General Liability policy $567. +inland marine @ $1.50 per 1000, on $20000= $300 or $867 total premium. Basicly what this does is gives you GenLia. for an additional $367 over what you would have normaly paid for just the inland marine policy by itself. (I am using these numbers because this is the prices quoted to me) For Workerscomp, the rates all depend on the classification of your policy. In NC, its $9.51 per $100 for landscaping and since it is coverd by the government everybody in NC will pay the same rate. If someone is giving you a cheaper quote it is because they are selling you a policy that maynot cover the type of work you are doing. In other words, the cheap policy you are buying isnt worth having because your not going to be covered in the event of an accident. Someone mentioned that lawncare was a different classification than Landscaping, if so it to will have its own rate and everybody in NC will pay the same $$per $100. Includeing the Minimum.

SOMM
02-26-2005, 12:59 PM
wbw is right on the money with the "hold harmless" clause. we keep this clause even though our workers are workman comp insured, but we insure for them this way: you interview them yourself, then send them to the temp agency you get set up with to furthur screen & hire them for you and to carry the workman's comp on them for you, because essentially they are employees of the temp agency and not you.

Food for thought: once your company gets on board the Workman's Comp "bandwagon" with your State, it's usually impossible to get off it if YOU are the one carrying the workers comp. ins. , without audit, etc.