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View Full Version : Equipment dealer having mowing crews!


J Hisch
02-07-2005, 04:02 PM
Does this happen in any other markets? We have a very reputable dealer here who has mowing crews. I don't do business with this dealer becasue of this fact. However, he does provide excellant customer service to his commercial cutters. I have bid against him on serveral properties. I can't bring myself to do business with someone who could affect my bottom line. However, many LCO's do business with him. I like the equipment line he carries but I will not buy from him. The dealer who I deal with had this product line and lost it do to the fact they expaned into his market so it was pulled from them. Let me know if anyone else see this? I think this would be a major confilct of interest for the manufactuers.

procut
02-07-2005, 04:41 PM
It seems like that guy would just concentrate on one thing, either sell/repair mowers or use them. BTW, there is also a very reputable dealer in my area that has a mow crew. This dealer also services many commercial cutters.

grassman2001
02-07-2005, 05:11 PM
There is an outfit I know who both sells and has mowing crews, but he is in the county north of mine but still in the greater cincinnati area. So it really doesn't bother me cause he's too far away from me to be considered competition.

JB1
02-07-2005, 05:20 PM
Its the same thing with a lot of nurseries selling plants and landscaping also.

Lbilawncare
02-07-2005, 05:23 PM
Why should this bother anyone? Unless he is lowballing the mowing I see absolutely nothing wrong with this. If he wasn't the competition there would be someone else. What is the real issue here, is it that he is getting his equipment for a better deal?

jeffh1988
02-07-2005, 05:58 PM
So what your saying is that if you had a guy who forsay has a tire store or gas station and he runs mowing crews you would not do buisiness with him because you would be helping him out. I think competition is competition it dosen't matter what they do besides cut grass your bottom line won't be affected if you are doing a good job and your customers are happy. This guy has just as much of a chance of taking one of your customers as does anyone else.

leaflawnandlimb
02-07-2005, 06:22 PM
That's alot like so-called wholesale distributers that sell to the public. It's not right.

plateau lawn care
02-07-2005, 07:13 PM
its just a competitor are their not new subdivisions going up in your area people are multiplying everyday i think their is plenty to go around ... like they said if he wasnt bidding someone else would be.

Littleriver1
02-07-2005, 07:15 PM
I didn't read that he was worried about this guy taking his customers. I think he's worried the guy will over charge him on parts, or hold up his repairs or something. Some of the guys at my dealer try to pick your brain on prices and who my custormers are. I try not to give any thing away but I think there is enough business out there for every one. I always stress that I think every one needs to keep the prices up because I know dealers talk to every one. I have never gotten a referral from a dealer. I would think there referrals go to the LCO that spend the most in their shop. I do know if they get a good deal in on a trade or return, the big spenders get first dibbs on it. I think dealers prices are too high anyway,but if they want to cut grass so be it. If I was the only one out there cutting grass, I would be dead in month anyway. I don't think everyone out there cutting grass knows what their doing any way. If I see them broke down needing a belt or something and I have a spare that fits I'll help them. That way, later on if I end up with a few of their customers they'll be cool about it. God bless them, is all I can say. This is hard work, hopefully we'll all do well.

packerbacker
02-07-2005, 07:15 PM
If i was a dealer and i was going to get into mowing also i would make a seperate entity so nobody would think they were owned by the same person. It would save trouble in the long run and keep people from thinking like Hirsch does.

tiedeman
02-07-2005, 07:25 PM
now this is me, but I personally wouldn't go there. You are basically supporting his business. I no longer go to a nursery nearby because of the same situation. Even though they are the closet in the area, I refuse to go there because I feel that I am supporting the competition in my area

rodfather
02-07-2005, 07:29 PM
If i was a dealer and i was going to get into mowing also i would make a seperate entity so nobody would think they were owned by the same person. It would save trouble in the long run and keep people from thinking like Hirsch does.

Gotta agree with John on this...even so...if word gets out, you're gonna have some really PO'ed amigos.

nriddle77
02-07-2005, 07:35 PM
It seems like we have some of those dealer/LCO guys here on LS. I could be wrong, but I think I remember them posting before. If there are any here, it would be intresting to hear from this about this.

DennisF
02-07-2005, 07:37 PM
There is nothing wrong him working in the business. He's just another competitor. But I wouldn't buy equipment from his business either. To my way of thinking I would be subsidizing a competitor if I shopped at his business. I don't mind competition, but I'll be damned if I put money in their pocket to use against me. JMO.

lawncare4u
02-07-2005, 08:44 PM
Well if he is a dealer,and also mows grass........there is a good point,at least he can give himself a deal on a new mower ! After all this is America-freedom of choice.Grow up and quit your crying!!! :p :p :p :angry: :p :p :p

brucec32
02-07-2005, 09:22 PM
more power to them. I wouldn't buy mowers from them though.

Obviously the specific persons involve matter, but generally I wouldn't count on a competitor to be wishing and hoping I get my mower back asap. I also have a hard time imagining him telling his mechanics to stop working on his unit and fix mine when I bring it in.

Finally, his lawn sales business is allowing him to buy machines at a huge discount for his maintenance operation, so he already has a competitive advantage over me. Why do I want to add to that by making his sales division a sucess?

J Hisch
02-07-2005, 10:17 PM
Here my beef. To put it simply

1. He has the equipment line I used to buy from another dealer. Now he is my only choice if I want to continue to use this equipment line.

2. Tell me what equipment you have and I can tell how long it is going to take you.(by him selling/ servicing equipment for commercial cutters he knows their capabilites)

3. Say I buy 3 new pieces of equipment from this dealer and the next day I am in a bidding war with this man.

4. Becasue he has equipment and store front. He is more visible than my utility shop. Having a store full of equipment puts a warm fuzzy feeling in the larger commercial industry. Especially when they require you to fill out equipment list.

And for those of you who say dont cry about this. I hope I never hear you talking about losing a 20.00 dollar yard. I could care less if I lose residental there is always another one waiting. The jobs we bib against are in the ten of thousands.

Albemarle Lawn
02-07-2005, 10:43 PM
By also operating what he sells, he knows more.

Most dealers don't use what they sell, so "what's good" is what they hear through the rumor mill or they push whatever machine has best incentive/kickback gains to him.

KB

Precision
02-08-2005, 12:39 AM
By also operating what he sells, he knows more.

Most dealers don't use what they sell, so "what's good" is what they hear through the rumor mill or they push whatever machine has best incentive/kickback gains to him.

KB

I agree, I have a dealer nearby who knows nothing about what he sells other than what the pamphlet says about the 03 model. Sorry but this is the 05 model.

Another dealer is also a mowing company with 9 crews. He shoots straight with the equipment recomendations, uses what he sells, is very open about doing both, provides loaners from the store or from his fleet if you are behind the 8-ball, gave me a 20% discount for buying in bulk in December, is helping me to sell some old equipment without cost to me.

Can you guess who is getting more of my business? It isn't the one who doesn't also mow.

Look at the big picture. Not buying from a Dealeer/LCO just because he does both is like saying I won't buy Toro ZTR's because I don't like red equipment. It doesn't make sense.

HOOLIE
02-08-2005, 12:49 AM
At first glance this seems like a bad thing, but if you really think about it, the dealer won't be dealing for very long if he uses his position to screw his competition. If it were me, I'd be on my best behavior, providing quick turn-around on repairs, making sure I don't step on anyone's toes...

Just my 2 cents

ChadA
02-08-2005, 02:07 AM
I didn't read that he was worried about this guy taking his customers. I think he's worried the guy will over charge him on parts, or hold up his repairs or something. Some of the guys at my dealer try to pick your brain on prices and who my custormers are. I try not to give any thing away but I think there is enough business out there for every one. I always stress that I think every one needs to keep the prices up because I know dealers talk to every one. I have never gotten a referral from a dealer. I would think there referrals go to the LCO that spend the most in their shop. I do know if they get a good deal in on a trade or return, the big spenders get first dibbs on it. I think dealers prices are too high anyway,but if they want to cut grass so be it. If I was the only one out there cutting grass, I would be dead in month anyway. I don't think everyone out there cutting grass knows what their doing any way. If I see them broke down needing a belt or something and I have a spare that fits I'll help them. That way, later on if I end up with a few of their customers they'll be cool about it. God bless them, is all I can say. This is hard work, hopefully we'll all do well.


Thats the kind of Unselfishness I like to see. We are all in the same business. We should look out for each other.

Turf Dancer
02-08-2005, 04:47 AM
There are two companies that are full scale landscaping and one of them also has 12 maintenance crews yet one is a landscape materials supply company and the other has nurseries. The second one is a very large company, I don't think a lot of landscaping and maintenance competition buys much from them. They have actually done a smart thing business wise, they have gotten big in landscaping after making their stand in the landscape supply and nursery markets. The company who has all the maintenance crews also has about 8 install crews. They have over 30 trucks, dozens of tractors and skid steers etc. They started landscaping and cut their costs because they were paying cost for plants and sod and trees, They got big by being lower priced and providing the same quality products. After they ran a bunch of the landscapers out of the market for the larger projects they used the profits from their nursery and landscape business to grow and continue to grow. They were also getting into the landscape maintenance market big time. They have big crews and they don't care about breaking even or making a big profit. They only stay in this business to limit the growth of a lot of smaller companies in the maintenance business. During peak season they have close to 75 field employees and I have no clue as to how many other employees they have. I know they have 2 guys that only do bids and check in on the crews. To me this is smart business for them if they want to dominate the market all around, but I don't care to use them for any supplies and I don't think that anyone that has landscape related business would want to use them either. They have let it be known that they don't care about anything other than limiting competition's growth in commercial maintenance and large installs.

Precision
02-09-2005, 11:07 PM
That makes them dirty players.

Price fixing, dumping, racketeering are all illegal. Being vertical is smart, driving other guys out of business just to limit competition is bad for everyone and should not be assisted.

competitiveimageland
02-09-2005, 11:23 PM
im goin to have to say just stick with the sealed bearings its not necesary to grease these bearings every day or week for that matter for they are high speep bearings , just think the same bearings go into die grinders and they go in excess of 12,000 rpm , i highly doupt your spindles hit 1/10 of that,

Oldtimer
02-13-2005, 02:38 AM
Wal-Mart and Home Depot have put a lot of people out of business so what is the difference if a large landscaper does it too?

Mowmoregrass
02-14-2005, 11:42 AM
Just thought I would bump this thread to the top, as I am a new dealer deciding weather to continue cutting grass or not. My old dealer was one of the largest dealers as well as Lco.

MarcSmith
02-14-2005, 12:00 PM
Wal-Mart and Home Depot have put a lot of people out of business so what is the difference if a large landscaper does it too?


Its called Valley Crest, Trugreen, brickman...Although they only are really concerend with the large markets....If I had a choice between those it would be VC. But I'd sooner take a local contractor over all three, If I had to choose...

When I lived in Orlando ther was a shop on OBT that serviced equipment and ran crews. Yeah the bummer is they they got equipment at cost, but I never worried about it...

The days of the Mom-pop stores are defintily dwindling down....too bad....

Oldtimer
02-14-2005, 05:42 PM
The amount of money a LCO/dealer saves on equipment really doesn't amount to much.

MarcSmith
02-15-2005, 08:33 AM
Migyht not be much, but in a competitive market all you may need is a couple points...I'll also bet the shop never has a problem with down time on their equipment....another plus.

If they do good work, and are competive and don't unfairly priortize their equipment over your for repairs/parts, then no biggie

MOW ED
02-15-2005, 09:12 AM
My dealer has 3 2 man crews and a fert division. My feeling is that he was a LCO before a dealer. He got to be a dealer because as his business grew and he needed service, the local dealers didn't care about him as an LCO. So he bought into the dealership and expanded.
He is not my mowing competition as he mostly has large commercial and industrial accounts that I do not care to do with my one man operation. I do know he has to bid against guys that may run the equipment he sells but for the most part he is being lowballed by them. He has lost quite a few accounts to guys low balling him.

You may not like it or agree with it but as was said above, this is America and we are free to legally do what we want to succeed. I can appreciate the business my dealer has built and just wish it was me that thought of it. I still go to him because he knows what small cutters go thru. He is not looking to wipe me out of business, he wants me to succeed. I am sorry its not that way for all of you but thats free enterprise. Good Luck.

Oldtimer
02-15-2005, 09:29 AM
MOWER ED has got it right.