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F6Hawk
02-09-2005, 08:23 AM
Is there a good information source to visit for details on installing my own irrigation system? Besides this forum, I mean, which seems to have lots of experienced folks. I would just like to nail down the basics before I start asking a lot of questoins that can be answered with online reading.

My intention is to have a second meter installed ($275 from the city), and probably run 1" or 1-1/4" main line to the valves, then 3/4" for the laterals, unless 1" would be better. Pressure here is good, I am guessing 60-65 psi without measuring. The front yard is 3 different sized rectangles, so no complicated layout for me.

Is there a particular brand(s) you recommend, should I install a rain switch, what sort of backflow preventer (the lady at the city desk told me the meter has one already, but wasn't sure if she knew what she was talking about or not). Questions like this are what I am desiring to answer.

TIA!
F6

Ground Master
02-09-2005, 09:48 AM
irrigationtutorials.com

F6Hawk
02-09-2005, 04:28 PM
irrigationtutorials.com

Wow, great amount of info, I appreciate it. At the risk of sounding like I am whining, it looks to me like it will be harder to plan the darn thing than it will be to actually dig & install!

Is it really necessary to go thru the calculations for pressure and flow if one is on city water with good pressure, or is that geared towards low pressure/well-type applications? I understand the head-to-head coverage thing, I thougt it would be as simple as picking a pipe diameter, drawing up a plan that provided good sprinkler coverage, then putting it all down.

And perhaps I didn't get far enough (there was a LOT of data at that site!), but I didn't see recommendations on brands or types of sprinklers.

Thanks again!

F6

Randy J
02-09-2005, 05:52 PM
You want to determine flow and pressure so that you know how to zone your heads. For instance if your hookup flows 18gpm, you can add heads together until you get to 18gpm, but you don't want to go higher or your coverage will suffer. Remember to zone like heads togoether - don't put heads in the sun with heads in the shade, etc.

F6Hawk
02-09-2005, 06:50 PM
You want to determine flow and pressure so that you know how to zone your heads. For instance if your hookup flows 18gpm, you can add heads together until you get to 18gpm, but you don't want to go higher or your coverage will suffer. Remember to zone like heads togoether - don't put heads in the sun with heads in the shade, etc.

I understand that, but it seems to me that you won't get a TRUE flow rate until you have most of the equipment in place.... For example, I can measure flow rate at the meter, but it will drop wherever the pipe size goes down, and again as it passes thru the solenoid valves, etc. So the only way I see to get a true flow rate is at the sprinkler head. Of course, pressure will be the same regardless of where you measure it, given a static system.

Cheers,
F6

Mdirrigation
02-09-2005, 07:05 PM
The flow rate and pressure in Feburary are not the same as in July , always size your system to operate properly at a lower figure.

Critical Care
02-09-2005, 07:28 PM
Yes, the static pressure will be the same, but what you're asking about is dynamic pressure. Check your static pressure and then enter the factors that will affect your dynamic presure, such as elevation change. Dynamic pressure will change with elevation, approximately .5 psi per foot elevation. A loss going up, gain going down. Also, you should figure the psi loss per size and type of pipe that you use. For example, 1" schedule 40 at 18 gpm has a loss of about 7 psi, and the flow rate of the water through it will be slightly less than 7 feet per second (getting into the red zone for that much water flowing through that size of pipe). You will have to figure in the loss through the meter and the backflow device as well.

Many of the main brand irrigation companies, like Rainbird or Hunter, have charts and reference data at the back of their catalogs - probably on their websites too. Just remember, the less math and planning you do on this, the more of a chance that it'll get screwed up.

ed2hess
02-09-2005, 08:59 PM
Go to home depot and get the forms for Toro design. You send them a plat of your property with the house and trees and sidewalks drawn in and they will send you a plan. Understand that they probably overdesign it but you can decide if you want to change any of it. You have to measure you water pressure and flow rate and put that in the information. The information they provide includes everything you need!!! And it is free.

F6Hawk
02-09-2005, 09:11 PM
Go to home depot and get the forms for Toro design. You send them a plat of your property with the house and trees and sidewalks drawn in and they will send you a plan. Understand that they probably overdesign it but you can decide if you want to change any of it. You have to measure you water pressure and flow rate and put that in the information. The information they provide includes everything you need!!! And it is free.

Thanks, I was just doing similar on the rainbird web site. But according to the link above (Jeff Stryker), measuring the flow with a bucket is NOT the way to go, yet rainbird says to do it that way. Go figure...

I'll see what our local Lowe's has, but I have my doubts... this has to be THE worst Lowe's known to mankind!

Critical Care
02-09-2005, 10:15 PM
The very first irrigation project that I did prior to getting into it professionally was by using the Rainbird's homeowners form. It was a fairly comprehensive plan, but didn't account for everything, such as correct pipe sizing - for some reason. If I knew what I know today, I would have done a few things differently. Unfortunately, I can only blame myself for not having boned up on the subject a bit more.

By the way, the backflow device at the meter will protect other people from stuff like fertilizer flowing back into the water main, but it isn't going to protect you. That's why I always install devices on irrigation lines.

stevelsc1
02-09-2005, 10:44 PM
We have been doing irrigation for 30 years, we price it per zone usually

$ 375.00 per zone with Hunter pop up and rotory heads. Double checks and addtional meters are extra.

Don't get all spooked out, pricing also is subject to ground conditions etc.

Good luck :cool2:

advancedlawnsolutions
02-09-2005, 11:11 PM
Backflows are regulated by Dhec in my area. Meaning they require certain "atmospheric vaccum breaker" type or "testable" dual check valve that mounts under ground as the other one mounts 12" above the highest head. You may want to check with your local Dhec office for more clear direction on what to install for Backflows.

I second that on planning your system well before spending money & creating something that does not do what you thought it would. I like rainbird parts personally.

F6Hawk
02-10-2005, 12:12 PM
So how does one go about determining what backflow device is required locally? I called the city, and they sounded clueless to me, or perhaps they just don't regulate such.

And with a 1" meter installed (the largest they will put in), if I run 1" PVC from the meter to the solenoid manifold, should I go with 1" or 3/4" for the laterals? Is there any reason to go with larger pipe out of the meter? It seems to me that the meter is the limiting device here.

F6Hawk
02-10-2005, 03:20 PM
So how does one go about determining what backflow device is required locally? I called the city, and they sounded clueless to me, or perhaps they just don't regulate such.

And with a 1" meter installed (the largest they will put in), if I run 1" PVC from the meter to the solenoid manifold, should I go with 1" or 3/4" for the laterals? Is there any reason to go with larger pipe out of the meter? It seems to me that the meter is the limiting device here.

I wish we could edit posts...

I finally talked to a guy at the city water dept who knows what he is talking about. It seems they install 3/4" meters, so I am limited to using that size line to the mainfolds. So for the laterals, should I drop down to 1/2", or leave it 3/4"? I would think that staying with 3/4" throughout the system would give me the maximum flow, and less hassle over worrying about what sizes to make repairs/mods.

And the meter comes with a double-check valve backflow preventer, so now I don't need to worry about buying one of those.

For a shut off just after the meter, is a ball valve better than a gate valve? Or is it even necessary, I guess I could just use the city's shut-off valve, and install one at the manifold, where it would be handy.

What about desired brand to go with? One local supply company only deals in Nelson... I would like to give them business, vs. Lowe's, but is Nelson a good brand? Or do you recommend Hunter, Rainbird, etc?

Thank you for the replies thus far, I appreciate the help!

Critical Care
02-10-2005, 07:54 PM
Three rules to consider when first designing your system. Use the most restrictive rule.

Rule one. The pressure loss through the water meter should not exceed 10% of the minimum static water pressure available in the city main. With a ¾ “ water meter, and if the city main is 110 psi, then you can accept only a loss of 10% of 110 psi, which is 11 psi. Higher flow rates than 24 gpm would exceed this percentage.

Rule two. The maximum flow through the meter for irrigation should not exceed 75% of the maximum safe flow of the meter. For your ¾ “ meter the max safe flow is 30 gpm, therefore 75% of this is 22.5 gpm.

Rule three. The velocity of flow through the service line should not exceed 5 to 7.5 feet per second (fps). What’s the size and type of your service line going to your house? If it’s 1” schedule 40 pvc you’ll be limited to 18 gpm max, 1.25” schedule 40 would be 30 gpm max.

So if your service line is 1” pvc, rule three becomes the most restrictive, and you’ll be limited to 18 gpm. But if your service line is larger, then rule two will be the most restrictive at 22.5 gpm. But, the city water pressure and your service line size are variables which I can only guess at.

And… for your own protection put in a backflow device. Forget the one at the street, it ain’t gonna help you if fertilizer siphons back down into your line from your irrigation system! “Gosh Molly, our water sure tastes funny!”

Critical Care
02-10-2005, 08:02 PM
Oh… don’t go with a ¾” main, unless if you have a puny service line to your house, which would really restrict you. With ¾” class 200 IPS pipe you’d be pushing things at 14 gpm. More chance of fittings popping apart and fun things like that…

F6Hawk
02-10-2005, 10:41 PM
Oh… don’t go with a ¾” main, unless if you have a puny service line to your house, which would really restrict you. With ¾” class 200 IPS pipe you’d be pushing things at 14 gpm. More chance of fittings popping apart and fun things like that…

I guess you didn't read my post above yours, or maybe I didn't make it clear enough... I am stuck with a 3/4" meter. It is what the city will put in for $250, because that is what the house supply is. They cut the line after the meter shutoff, throw in a tee, and put both meters on the same 3/4" mainline.

Or for the low, low price of just $500, I can get them to dig back to the street and connect a 1" meter to the water main. What a crock. *sigh*

And I am only guessing right now, cuz I haven't put a gauge on it yet, but I think my pressure will be around 55-60 psi, perhaps a tad more. Good pressure here, even if flow rate isn't what I will want.

Good info in the post above, but what will be my flow rate now, restricted to 3/4" throughout? And since I have a 3/4" meter, is it better to stay 3/4" all the way to the heads? I would think that dropping down to 1/2" on the laterals would drop flow rate considerably, is this correct?

I am beginning to believe that using 5-gallon buckets might be better. Then again, several homes on the street have sprinkler systems that seem to work fine, so I suppose I will survive with 3/4".

Thanks for all the info, CC!

Mdirrigation
02-11-2005, 08:48 AM
3//4 is fine , In my area 99% of the residential are 3/4 . I have a general rule that we use a maximum of 3 rotors per zone , and 5 spray heads per zone. You will be fine with a 3/4 meter . If there is a backflow on the meter and the code says thats fine , go with it .

Critical Care
02-11-2005, 11:53 AM
Md, I hate to disagree, but that doesn't make sense. A backflow on the meter protects people upstream of it, but won't do diddly squat for the people in the house. Personally, if I lived there and drank the water, cooked with the water, bathed in the water, I wouldn't want to take the chance.

Consider this scenerio... The city water shuts off, his irrigation is on a controller and automatically opens his valves on schedule, but there's no water pressure. A negative pressure developes and water from the heads flow back through the open valves and into the homes system, but not into the city main becasuse of the street BFD. Now you have polluted water trapped in your system. That's just how it can work...

And, Md... I know that you know this... each area, each home can be different. You can never assume that his service line is only 3/4" copper, or whatever... If he has a 1" service line going to his house, or larger, I see no need for him to limit himself to a 3/4" line for his irrigation. If he runs 3/4" class 200 with 14 gpm flowing through it, he'll have 8 psi loss in pressure. If he runs 1" class 200 @ 14 gpm he'll only have 2.5 psi loss. The larger pipe would mean fewer zones, less work, smaller controller, likely to be less of an expense, and surely less problems created by flow rates.

jimmyburg
02-11-2005, 02:05 PM
Go to home depot and get the forms for Toro design. You send them a plat of your property with the house and trees and sidewalks drawn in and they will send you a plan. Understand that they probably overdesign it but you can decide if you want to change any of it. You have to measure you water pressure and flow rate and put that in the information. The information they provide includes everything you need!!! And it is free. When you send in the plan from Home Depot they send it out of state to where I dont know, but the dont use the same law and training that we do as Texas Irrigators.

F6Hawk
02-11-2005, 03:04 PM
Md, I hate to disagree, but that doesn't make sense. A backflow on the meter protects people upstream of it, but won't do diddly squat for the people in the house. Personally, if I lived there and drank the water, cooked with the water, bathed in the water, I wouldn't want to take the chance.
Actually, it makes perfect sense. If you install a BFD on the output side of the watering meter, then water CAN'T get back thru the meter to the supply line. Thus the drinking meter is protected. Now, if you are referring to using one meter, and having the sprinkler tap into the drinking line after the meter, then what you say makes sense. The bottom line is to have the BFD between the sprinklers & the drinking supply lines. In MY case, I will have two separate meters, both connected to the same 3/4" supply line; with a BFD on the out side of the irrigation meter, the rest of the supply is safe.

And, Md... I know that you know this... each area, each home can be different. You can never assume that his service line is only 3/4" copper, or whatever... If he has a 1" service line going to his house, or larger, I see no need for him to limit himself to a 3/4" line for his irrigation. If he runs 3/4" class 200 with 14 gpm flowing through it, he'll have 8 psi loss in pressure. If he runs 1" class 200 @ 14 gpm he'll only have 2.5 psi loss. The larger pipe would mean fewer zones, less work, smaller controller, likely to be less of an expense, and surely less problems created by flow rates.
No assuming here, CC. I am stuck with 3/4" supply, unless I want to drop $500 to have the city connect my irrigation meter directly to the city main. The additional downside is that I won't be able to ever have my sprinklers running when house water is running, as 3/4" will not supply both, I am certain. And since the service line & meter are 3/4", there would be no reason to run 1" from the meter to the manifolds. On the other hand, my next door neighbor has a 3/4" system, and he has 5 or 6 rotors going at once. So perhaps all is not lost.
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Mdirrigation
02-11-2005, 07:40 PM
Md, I hate to disagree, but that doesn't make sense. A backflow on the meter protects people upstream of it, but won't do diddly squat for the people in the house. Personally, if I lived there and drank the water, cooked with the water, bathed in the water, I wouldn't want to take the chance.

Consider this scenerio... The city water shuts off, his irrigation is on a controller and automatically opens his valves on schedule, but there's no water pressure. A negative pressure developes and water from the heads flow back through the open valves and into the homes system, but not into the city main becasuse of the street BFD. Now you have polluted water trapped in your system. That's just how it can work...

**********************************************************

True , but he said that he is getting another meter for the sprinkler system , and it has a backflow . Since it is a dedicated meter with backflow , just for the sprinkler , it would function properly , no need to have 2 seperate devices.

*********************************************************

And, Md... I know that you know this... each area, each home can be different. You can never assume that his service line is only 3/4" copper, or whatever... If he has a 1" service line going to his house, or larger, I see no need for him to limit himself to a 3/4" line for his irrigation. If he runs 3/4" class 200 with 14 gpm flowing through it, he'll have 8 psi loss in pressure. If he runs 1" class 200 @ 14 gpm he'll only have 2.5 psi loss. The larger pipe would mean fewer zones, less work, smaller controller, likely to be less of an expense, and surely less problems created by flow rates.




**********************************************************

Yes , but , in my experience the majority of the time in 3 counties in my area the meters are all 3/4 inch ( unless they are commercial ) . The government buys them in bulk .

I was installing water and sewer lines on new homes with a plumber friend of mine , the town homes had fire sprinklers in them , we had to install a 1 1/2
inch feed , copper . This was all well and good , but the meter and the pipe off the meter , that we had to connect to was 3/4 inch. It was the dumbest thing I ever saw , we could have used a 4 inch feed to the house and it wouldnt have mattered because we were fed by a 3/4 meter and pipe.

In 22 years of installing irrigation , I have seen pleanty of 1 inch supplys , but never seen a meter bigger than 3/4 on a residential . ( unless it was a well )

Critical Care
02-11-2005, 08:09 PM
Sorry F6 and Md, I lost track of what water meter we were talking about. I haven’t run into people metering their own irrigation systems… At any rate, I think we’re on the same wavelength regarding the backflow device. The lady with the city however was probably talking about their own meter and backflow device out by the street. Right?

Maybe I also missed out where you said your service line was ¾”. I picked up that the meter was, but not the line. Oops? In that case, it pretty well settles it. By the way, I have a 5/8” meter at my home – smaller than your meter, but a 1” service line.

Your neighbor running his 5 or 6 rotors might be using low flow rate nozzles, such as six 1.5 gpm nozzles on some Rainbird R-50s.

At any rate, good luck.

F6Hawk
02-11-2005, 10:37 PM
Sorry F6 and Md, I lost track of what water meter we were talking about.

At any rate, good luck.

I don't need luck, I have you guys helping me out, so I am sure I will avoid many mistakes. Thanks for the input; even if you miss a point, it is then revisited, which means that we are all checking each other here.

I read in the other thread that the RB 42SA is a pretty good rotor... what do the experts recommend? I was leaning towards the 5000, 5000+, or 42SA. What say ye?

My only concern on the 5000/5000+ is availability; not sure if us homeowners can get them locally?

Also, what about the valves at the manifolds? City said no code requirements, so I am guessing that I should use ASV's instead of PVB's? What valve do you recommend? The ciy water here is fairly clean, at least until the lake "turns over" for a week or so. Which would you recommend?

Thanks again for all the help!
F6

Turf Dancer
02-16-2005, 05:35 AM
F6hawk,

What is the purpose of the second meter ? You already have a meter so why not just tap into your water line and run a tee off of it to a backflow and so on ?

F6Hawk
02-16-2005, 06:51 AM
F6hawk,

What is the purpose of the second meter ? You already have a meter so why not just tap into your water line and run a tee off of it to a backflow and so on ?

The purpose is money. With the current meter, something like 48% of the cost per gallon is sewage. With a irrigation meter installed, the cost per gallon is drastically reduced. You have the initial cost of $250, but (depending on the volume of water you use to irrigate), you can make that $250 back in one season.

Critical Care
02-16-2005, 12:22 PM
Ah, so where you are you can get a different rate on water usage dedicated to irrigation?

Okay... I'd be tempted to reconsider having it connected directly to the city main if you can recapture that $250 back in one season. If you would go straight to the the city main you wouldn't have to limit yourself to that 3/4" line servicing your home, nor would you have to worry about taking showers during watering, flushing toilets, and all of that fun stuff. You could have fewer zones, thus saving money right there.

I'm also wondering... this irrigation meter and backflow device, if it's connected to your home's service line, then I presume that you would install it, or pay someone to do it. Right? But, if it is connected to the city main, then they, or a licensed plumber, would surely install it. Man, if this is the case, I'd pay them to do it and then reap the benefits of having a better system.

F6Hawk
02-16-2005, 02:47 PM
Ah, so where you are you can get a different rate on water usage dedicated to irrigation? Yes

Okay... I'd be tempted to reconsider having it connected directly to the city main if you can recapture that $250 back in one season. If you would go straight to the the city main you wouldn't have to limit yourself to that 3/4" line servicing your home, nor would you have to worry about taking showers during watering, flushing toilets, and all of that fun stuff. You could have fewer zones, thus saving money right there. Here's how it works... They have a 3/4" tap off the street line (main line) in my yard. They will shut off the water there, install BOTH meters after this shutoff, and provide each with its own shutoff at this point. One goes to the house, one to the sprinkler. All of this is for the $250, and it is done by the city (since it is their meter).

If I choose to go back out to the street and get a bigger tap off the mainline, it will cost me $500, and the biggest line (meter) they will give me is 1". So I guess it all boils down to: is it worth it to pay an ADDITIONAL $250 for 1/4" gain in pipe diameter?

I'm also wondering... this irrigation meter and backflow device, if it's connected to your home's service line, then I presume that you would install it, or pay someone to do it. Right? But, if it is connected to the city main, then they, or a licensed plumber, would surely install it. Man, if this is the case, I'd pay them to do it and then reap the benefits of having a better system. Yes, the city installs it, and there is no benefit, except having them tear up my lawn for me. ;)
asldjalsdlkh

Critical Care
02-16-2005, 07:40 PM
I never like the thought of tearing up someones lawn... but sometimes it can't be helped.

Well, lets think about this. With your irrigation tied into your existing ¾” service line to the house, I’m guessing that you’re looking at designing things around 10 gpm – hopefully you would have that. On the other hand, if you tied directly into the city main, a 1” meter could safely allow 75% of its 50 gpm max. That would be 37.5 gpm… and that’s a bit more than your 10 gpm.

And, is there a reason to downsize your irrigation line to the same size of the meter? I wouldn’t do that. For example, 1” pvc would be too small for a 37.5 gpm flow which could safely come out of that 1” meter. Big friction losses and fast velocities would occur.

Bottom line is that there could be a big difference between tying into your existing ¾” line and that of tying into the city main directly for your irrigation. If all you’re going to do, and ever will do, is to water a small patch of grass, then it’s probably no biggie. But, if you have a bit of property, want larger nozzles, faster watering times, or have plans for expansion, then you may not be so quick in saying that the extra $250 to tie in to the street is a bunch of crock. IMO

F6Hawk
02-16-2005, 09:27 PM
Well, lets think about this. With your irrigation tied into your existing ¾” service line to the house, I’m guessing that you’re looking at designing things around 10 gpm – hopefully you would have that. On the other hand, if you tied directly into the city main, a 1” meter could safely allow 75% of its 50 gpm max. That would be 37.5 gpm… and that’s a bit more than your 10 gpm. I have run it twice, and obtained a 11.1 GPM flow rate (if you believe in filling 5 gallon buckets from a faucet). Bear in mind, that is coming out of a 1/2" sillcock, so the actual rate out of a 3/4" device SHOULD be more.

And, is there a reason to downsize your irrigation line to the same size of the meter? I wouldn’t do that. For example, 1” pvc would be too small for a 37.5 gpm flow which could safely come out of that 1” meter. Big friction losses and fast velocities would occur.. Are you telling me that if I use 1" PVC out of my 3/4" meter, I will get more than my current 11.1 flow rate? I was under the impression that the smallest diameter device in the flow circuit became the limiting factor. You are making it sound to me that 1-1/2" PVC out of a 1" meter would have a higher GPM than 1" PVC out of the same meter?

Bottom line is that there could be a big difference between tying into your existing ¾” line and that of tying into the city main directly for your irrigation. If all you’re going to do, and ever will do, is to water a small patch of grass, then it’s probably no biggie. But, if you have a bit of property, want larger nozzles, faster watering times, or have plans for expansion, then you may not be so quick in saying that the extra $250 to tie in to the street is a bunch of crock. IMO ]. I never said it was a crock, just that I was not sure if it was worth it or not. I guess if it eliminated one zone altogether, that alone could justify the cost. At the moment, I am looking at watering about 4-5,000 sq ft, just the front yard, but I will terminate such that I can add some zones in the back yard later (7-8,000 sq ft).
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MikeK
02-16-2005, 10:06 PM
at 55 to 60 PSI Static pressure, you should get 12 GPM at 40 PSI without a problem.
3/4 " Line has no place in an irrigation system. Why? Because pressure loss is a function of flow and distance, yeah, going through a 3/4 " meter is no problem, but going through 200 feet of underground pipe is another story as others have pointed out. Over long distances, these losses become significant. Use 1" Line, no exceptions/

Ive seen over 100 systems installed competly by homeowners and honestly, I've seen 2 that were close to being correct. The rest of them were so bad and it just makes me sick to see them go through all of that hard work and end up with something that does not work in the end.

When it's all said and done, you will spend at least 70 man hours designing, installing and running after parts for a system that a professional contractor can install in about 35 man hours.
Hire a contractor to install the system and focus on what you do best.

To answer your question about brand of parts. Stay away from the parts at home depot, ect. these are consumer quality parts. For about the same price, you can get commercial quality parts from a contractor or on the internet which will give you much better service.

Critical Care
02-17-2005, 12:48 AM
Or for the low, low price of just $500, I can get them to dig back to the street and connect a 1" meter to the water main. What a crock. *sigh*

I never said it was a crock, just that I was not sure if it was worth it or not.

You're 11.1 gpm hopefully was done while the shower was going, or the toilet flushing. Maybe some ambitious guy on here would want to figure out how long it would take you to water 8,000 sf with 11 gpm, while putting down 2" of water per week with some Rainbird 5000s 2.0 nozzles (.29" per hour @ 45 psi, 37' radius)... and head to head coverage. Good problem after a cup of coffee, but I think you'll see that your irrigation will be running long hours.

Why not ask someone with the city - that hopefully has some brains on the matter - how much water, gpm, you could expect to have if connected directly to the street?

F6Hawk
02-17-2005, 07:07 AM
at 55 to 60 PSI Static pressure, you should get 12 GPM at 40 PSI without a problem.
3/4 " Line has no place in an irrigation system. Why? Because pressure loss is a function of flow and distance, yeah, going through a 3/4 " meter is no problem, but going through 200 feet of underground pipe is another story as others have pointed out. Over long distances, these losses become significant. Use 1" Line, no exceptions/

Ive seen over 100 systems installed competly by homeowners and honestly, I've seen 2 that were close to being correct. The rest of them were so bad and it just makes me sick to see them go through all of that hard work and end up with something that does not work in the end.

When it's all said and done, you will spend at least 70 man hours designing, installing and running after parts for a system that a professional contractor can install in about 35 man hours.
Hire a contractor to install the system and focus on what you do best.

To answer your question about brand of parts. Stay away from the parts at home depot, ect. these are consumer quality parts. For about the same price, you can get commercial quality parts from a contractor or on the internet which will give you much better service.

What I do best is figure things out and do them as well as anyone else can. :D

My neighbors on either side have sprinkler systems that were installed by local pros, and each one has between 5-7 rotors in one zone. One even has rotors & spray heads on the same zone. Not exaclty what I have read should be done.

I understand what you mean, and I am sure that if someone like you was available in my area, I would be money ahead to do just what you say. And I would have someone to go back to if things go awry in the future.


I guess I can always call someone for an estimate, and see what design they can come up with, and based on what I ahve learned here and on other websites, will know better if the installer has a clue.

Thanks for all the input, guys!
F6

F6Hawk
02-17-2005, 07:10 AM
CC,

Oh, that remark. When I said crock there, I meant it was a crock to charge an additional $250 to go 3 more feet and tap off the main and install a tee.

johndarron
02-17-2005, 08:08 AM
If you want to go with a easy to install system go ahead and size your mainline 1-1/4" to the valve, after your valve go with 1" to all your heads as long as your zones are less than 15 gpm. flow rate. This will be an easy to install system. Hunter or Rainbird would be the way to go (I prefer Hunter). Rainbird (1804- 4" pop-up spray, 5004pc- pop-up rotor, 3504pc- small rotor, 100dv- 1" electric valve and ESP4MI- Modular clock) Hunter (PROS04- 4" pop-up spray, PGP- pop-up rotor, PGJ- small pop-up rotor, PGV101G- 1" electric valve and PC300- Modular timer). These are some of the best supplies for a residential install.

F6Hawk
02-17-2005, 11:33 AM
If you want to go with a easy to install system go ahead and size your mainline 1-1/4" to the valve, after your valve go with 1" to all your heads as long as your zones are less than 15 gpm. flow rate. This will be an easy to install system. Hunter or Rainbird would be the way to go (I prefer Hunter). Rainbird (1804- 4" pop-up spray, 5004pc- pop-up rotor, 3504pc- small rotor, 100dv- 1" electric valve and ESP4MI- Modular clock) Hunter (PROS04- 4" pop-up spray, PGP- pop-up rotor, PGJ- small pop-up rotor, PGV101G- 1" electric valve and PC300- Modular timer). These are some of the best supplies for a residential install.

John, thanks for the list of good supplies. I am assuming that these are all professional-grade items, as opposed to the Lowe's/Home Depot junk?

F6

F6Hawk
02-17-2005, 08:30 PM
Ok, let's say I go with a 1-1/2" mainline form the meter to the manifold, then go with 1" laterals out to the heads. Are the Irritrol 216b's a good valve to use for this? I am not familiar with all of the features needed, but they look like a commercial model that would suit my purposes well. What about manual vs. automatic anti-siphon and drain features?

Or are these valves overkill for my little ole home?

TIA!

F6Hawk
02-21-2005, 10:35 PM
Are those that are being offered for sale in the forum ok to use in my residential application? I mean, they seem like overkill, but if the price is right, why not use them, right? I could run 1-1/2" from the 3/4" meter to the valve manifold, then drop it down to 1" for the laterals. Is this a sensible solution?

Thanks,
F6

bicmudpuppy
05-29-2005, 02:29 AM
I'll see what our local Lowe's has, but I have my doubts... this has to be THE worst Lowe's known to mankind!


I would still bet it beats any Home Depot out there.............. :help:

Wet_Boots
06-01-2005, 12:11 AM
Ok, let's say I go with a 1-1/2" mainline form the meter to the manifold, then go with 1" laterals out to the heads. Are the Irritrol 216b's a good valve to use for this?

If you are running the sprinkler system from a second meter, the proper valve will depend on the flow you have. A one inch water meter has a rated flow capacity of fifty gallons per minute. (If your second meter is from a separate water main tap and is located near the street, you can approach this high a flow. A second meter inside your house doesn't get you more than what you probably have from the existing meter) You could water several acres with that large a flow. At 50 gpm, a 1-1/2" valve makes sense, and you would want to bump up the mainline pipe size to 2"

If you were running from a standard household supply on a lot half an acre or smaller, you wouldn't need pipe or valves larger than 1"

F6Hawk
06-01-2005, 12:18 AM
WB, according to Hunter, with a 1" service thru a 1" meter, the max GPM is only 19 gpm @ 65 psi. Where did you get 50 gpm? http://www.hunterindustries.com/Resources/PDFs/Technical/Domestic/lit226w.pdf Understand, I am not saying you are wrong, just saying that my only source is different than you.

In your example, does that 1" meter still flow at 50 gpm if it comes from a 3/4" service tap off the city main? 1" meter is what I am getting, but I am still limited to a 3/4" service.

I have pretty much decided (no one has indicated not to do this, at least) to go with 1" cl200 PVC for the mainline & laterals. According to Hunter, that should get me around 9-10 gpm based on my static of 65 psi, with a working pressure of 45 psi.

Wet_Boots
06-01-2005, 12:32 AM
You cite a number that takes into account the 1" service line between the street and the house. Eliminate that pressure loss by a direct 1" tap with a curbside meter and you get more flow.

How large a property are you watering, and how far is the house from the street?

Critical Care
06-04-2005, 10:51 AM
By the way, if you can get the 20' lengths of that pvc with one end flanged, you can eliminate having to glue on couplers so often. Saves time, saves work.

The class 200 pvc can safely handle flows up to about 18 gpm, and more with caution.

F6Hawk
06-04-2005, 05:42 PM
By the way, if you can get the 20' lengths of that pvc with one end flanged, you can eliminate having to glue on couplers so often. Saves time, saves work.

The class 200 pvc can safely handle flows up to about 18 gpm, and more with caution.The 20' flanged pipe costs $3.28, and I can buy 2 10' sticks & 2 couplers (thereby making the same setup) for $2.59. Now, it makes NO sense to me at all, but there you have it. That was the local Lowe's prices, and no one in two towns could touch that price, not even the big plumbing suppliers. That's 12.95 cents per foot, closest competitor was 15 cents per foot.

Time, no issue, I can glue up sections in my garage in my spare time, before I even start the install.

Dirty Water
06-04-2005, 06:17 PM
The 20' flanged pipe costs $3.28, and I can buy 2 10' sticks & 2 couplers (thereby making the same setup) for $2.59. Now, it makes NO sense to me at all, but there you have it. That was the local Lowe's prices, and no one in two towns could touch that price, not even the big plumbing suppliers. That's 12.95 cents per foot, closest competitor was 15 cents per foot.

Time, no issue, I can glue up sections in my garage in my spare time, before I even start the install.

I only buy belled '20 foot sticks because then its just one glue per 20 feet sections instead of 3.

Glueing time adds up, plus you have to factor in the cost of the glue, and the fact that theres more points for failure (of course, a proper solvent weld should be stronger than the pipe, but other people seem to lack the skill).

F6Hawk
06-04-2005, 07:32 PM
Very good point, Jon, and if I were in this business, I would probably suck up the extra cost and call it insurance.

As it is, I am doing all the welds, and know a thing or 3 about PVC gluing, plus what I have learned by reading on here. There's a good chance that by the time I "get 'er done!", my cost realization will not be all that... but there was one other factor: the 20' sections that they had in stock (all 6 of them) were in HORRible shape.

Dirty Water
06-04-2005, 08:17 PM
Very good point, Jon, and if I were in this business, I would probably suck up the extra cost and call it insurance.

As it is, I am doing all the welds, and know a thing or 3 about PVC gluing, plus what I have learned by reading on here. There's a good chance that by the time I "get 'er done!", my cost realization will not be all that... but there was one other factor: the 20' sections that they had in stock (all 6 of them) were in HORRible shape.

For a homeowner, your doing just fine. You've got to remember we order several thousand feet of pipe at a time :)

Rustic Goat
06-04-2005, 09:30 PM
F6Hawk,
Just be certain that you are comparing the same grade/weight PVC pipe when getting your pricing and picking up for purchase.

The pricing you're getting make sense from the supplier/seller end. Retailers like Lowe's nationally buy much more than all but a very few other buyers. It's great when they pass on the savings, they don't always.

Your pricing from actual plumbing supply houses are most likely off their retail sales sheet. They should be higher then when pricing to a contractor. The supply house probably has numerous other price sheets and/or discounts that apply to contractors depending on the volume they buy, or who they know.

Be certain to look at the actual markings on both the pipe and fittings to make sure they are the grade/quality you want when buying.