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View Full Version : hire the scrub, or pay the pro?


bobbygedd
02-16-2005, 06:44 PM
you need minor interior work done on your house. the bigger, better, well known companies don't take on small "odd job" type projects, the few that do, want top dollar for it. now, you have a reputable "handy man". he is much much cheaper, and his work quality is up to par, and he will do any small or odd job you want. he doesn't carry insurence, and he only accepts cash. he is about 50% cheaper than the other companies. who do you hire?

Love2Mow
02-16-2005, 06:48 PM
you need minor interior work done on your house. the bigger, better, well known companies don't take on small "odd job" type projects, the few that do, want top dollar for it. now, you have a reputable "handy man". he is much much cheaper, and his work quality is up to par, and he will do any small or odd job you want. he doesn't carry insurence, and he only accepts cash. he is about 50% cheaper than the other companies. who do you hire?




"reputable" companies ALWAYS carry insurance and take other forms of payment then cash. They also dont slash their prices.

The Dude
02-16-2005, 06:53 PM
By "reputable" I think he means someone who is known by others to do good work. Hence having a good reputation. Personally, If it was minor work, I would grab a Time Life book or hit the internet and figure it out myself. The way I figure it is either I get it done, or I screw it up so bad it becomes a big job.

Love2Mow
02-16-2005, 06:55 PM
By "reputable" I think he means someone who is known by others to do good work. Hence having a good reputation. Personally, If it was minor work, I would grab a Time Life book or hit the internet and figure it out myself. The way I figure it is either I get it done, or I screw it up so bad it becomes a big job.





I know what reputable means. Companies that have good reputations do good work and follow the basic rules and laws of being in business. Like me. :)

bobbygedd
02-16-2005, 06:57 PM
By "reputable" I think he means someone who is known by others to do good work. Hence having a good reputation. Personally, If it was minor work, I would grab a Time Life book or hit the internet and figure it out myself. The way I figure it is either I get it done, or I screw it up so bad it becomes a big job.
that's just it dude, everytime i try to do things like that, i screw up, make a mess, get electrocuted, it is always worse than if i paid somebody. don't get me wrong, i have many talents...they just havn't surfaced yet

The Dude
02-16-2005, 07:02 PM
I have the same problem. Things look so easy when you see them done on the DIY network, but i always seem to screw simple things up.

But hey, half the fun is trying.

dforbes
02-16-2005, 11:50 PM
no insurance, no job. What are you going to do when he falls off a ladder and hurts his back. He is on your property and you and or your insurance company is going to pay his medical bills, loss wages, pain and suffuring and any other expenses his lawyer can come up with. I would never hire anyone to do anything that did not have insurance. It could cost you everything you own.

fga
02-17-2005, 12:00 AM
you need minor interior work done on your house. the bigger, better, well known companies don't take on small "odd job" type projects, the few that do, want top dollar for it. now, you have a reputable "handy man". he is much much cheaper, and his work quality is up to par, and he will do any small or odd job you want. he doesn't carry insurence, and he only accepts cash. he is about 50% cheaper than the other companies. who do you hire?
"minor" interior work? i can do anything, but if its minor, and i don't want to do it, i'd hire him... the handyman.
but not electric or gas lines. i hate sheetrock, and spackle. i don't mind the taping, but the sanding, anyone one but me, i don't care.
half price you say, even better. no brainer.

if it was a repeatative service, then no. but a one time run, no doubt.

i'm free this weekend... but my rates aren't exactly half-price. i can do electric, gas, paint, plumbing,...once in a while i can even cut grass. i'll send you an estimate.

Precision
02-17-2005, 08:13 AM
would definately do it myself. I like that kinda work.

Given the parameters I would find an insured handyman if the Real companies wouldn't do it.

Richard Martin
02-17-2005, 08:28 AM
Everybody here who can see where Bobby is going with this raise your hand. :waving: Most of you people are just suckers for punishment.

rodfather
02-17-2005, 08:38 AM
Who do I hire? My g/f...she's great at interior stuff and we can probably work out the "payments" I'm sure LOL.

YardPro
02-17-2005, 08:45 AM
richard - my hand is raised

bobbygedd
02-17-2005, 09:55 AM
sorry richard, no hook on this one. sitting around here all winter has taken its toll. i am now a vegetable. so, i decided to make little repairs here and there. in the living room, we had some damage to the cieling. now mind you, i have no "handy man" ability whatsoever, own no tools, and have never done anything by the way of interior home repairs. i always either hired someone, or used my brother in law. ok, so i'm gonna take a stab at it , how hard can it be? i put an old sheet down on the carpet, got a ladder, a razor knife, and began to cut a 4ft by 3ft section of the cieling out. cutting, cutting, cutting...ok, this piece is ready to drop out, i pull, and HOLY CRAP...... all this black stuff comes down on top of me. apparently insulation that was put in about a million yrs ago when the house was built. what a mess. the stuff was so dirty and dusty, it got everywhere, on the carpet, walls, windows, the living room furniture had to be thrown in the garbage, the wall unit, i'm still trying to salvage it. kids toys needed be thrown out, the curtains, mini blinds, all thrown out. my wife says, " YOU IDIOT! you have destroyed our home! get somebody in here with a brain to fix that cieling. so, i began making calls. the bigger companies wanted no piece of it, in addition to the cieling, i have a few minor projects like replacing 2 windows, etc. the medium sized companies would take the job, but prices were a bit steep. i called the handyman that a few friends have used. great work, great price, and he will do the tinyest of jobs. yup, i hired the scrub

Norm Al
02-17-2005, 10:03 AM
did you pay the lowest, middle or top price bobbym?

bobbygedd
02-17-2005, 10:05 AM
i paid the lowest price

packerbacker
02-17-2005, 10:08 AM
Bobby, break down and buy a new trailer. Your impovements wont raise the value of your stall at the trailer park so its time to make an investment in a new one. Im sure your part time job at McDonalds offers some sort of housing program. Go to your boss and politely ask him for a loan against the $6.00 you make an hour. Im sure he will be happy to oblige.

I hope I have given you a viable solution.

tonygreek
02-17-2005, 10:20 AM
this vaguely reminds me of a thread about paying cash to a plumber someone once posted... ;)

bobby, as the flag-waving anti-scrub, pro-legit, pro-professional guy that you are, the correct answer for small jobs such as this is to call any of the hundred or so handyman companies in your area. they carry insurance, have guys that have the area of expertise you need, and if you ask nicely, they may offer a discount for cash (which is semantically different than "discount if you don't use a credit card"). besides, when you discover the ceiling damage was moisture-related, and the mold that's been growing for months hasn't been properly identified or remediated by the scrub, you'll appreciate having an actual insurance company to sue for the knockdown and rebuild of your house. :)

i own a remodeling company (albeit exteriors), build my own cabintery, finished my basement into a very slick dedicated home theater, and i still won't touch drywalling a ceiling, especially a large patch. darn things never seem to blend in like you'd like.

tony

captaingreen
02-17-2005, 10:22 AM
Where's that 'scrub test' you posted a while ago. By the standards with which you hired this guy you definitely hired a scrub. Kind of hypocritical seeing how hard you are on them all of the time. Being a legitimate business owner, paying out the @$$ for everything that comes along with it you should be appreciative of the cost involved and have hired the the medium sized guy. Come on Bobby :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

bobbygedd
02-17-2005, 10:54 AM
Bobby, break down and buy a new trailer. Your impovements wont raise the value of your stall at the trailer park so its time to make an investment in a new one. Im sure your part time job at McDonalds offers some sort of housing program. Go to your boss and politely ask him for a loan against the $6.00 you make an hour. Im sure he will be happy to oblige.

I hope I have given you a viable solution.
tell your sister i said thank you

crawdad
02-17-2005, 11:41 AM
..... i am now a vegetable...... my wife says, " YOU IDIOT! ..... yup, i hired the scrub

I'm sorry to hear that you can't afford to have it done right.
You are personally resonsible for bringing about the demise of the home improvement industry. It'll probably cost you more in the long run than if you hired a pro.
Is there a contract?
Get back to us when he dumps you with no warning for being a PITA, or wants to get paid in advance.
Crawdad

bobbygedd
02-17-2005, 11:53 AM
crawdad, i am not in the home improvement business. it is the business owners responsibility to protect the future of his industry, not mine.

chevyman1
02-17-2005, 11:58 AM
Good morning Booby....glad to see the fairy tales still abound. I tell all of my customers on a flier why they should hire the pro vs. the scrub.

GreenMonster
02-17-2005, 11:59 AM
Good morning Booby....glad to see the fairy tales still abound. I tell all of my customers on a flier why they should hire the pro vs. the scrub.

So why should they hire you instead of the pro?



Sorry, I couldn't resist. :waving:

packerbacker
02-17-2005, 12:24 PM
tell your sister i said thank you




No problem! Im glad she could help you find a new trailer! And hopefully its big enough for your wife to fit in. That way you dont have to keep her on a leash outside anymore.

chevyman1
02-17-2005, 12:42 PM
good one Mark, you are up 1-0 today! I needed a good laugh

FieldWalker
02-17-2005, 12:44 PM
No problem! Im glad she could help you find a new trailer! And hopefully its big enough for your wife to fit in. That way you dont have to keep her on a leash outside anymore.


LOL,sounds like you will have to butter her hips to get into the trailer

1MajorTom
02-17-2005, 01:05 PM
LOL,sounds like you will have to butter her hips to get into the trailer

Oh come on, let's stick to one screen name, thank you.

packerbacker
02-17-2005, 01:08 PM
Wasnt me this time!

1MajorTom
02-17-2005, 01:14 PM
Wasnt me this time!

After I wrote that, I thought immediately you would think maybe I was saying it was you.. lol
You are correct, it wasn't you this time. ;)

GreenMonster
02-17-2005, 01:21 PM
What's with all these guys coming up with new names?

Too chickensh!t to say something under your real name? So fanatical about following people and around heckling them, they can't stop even when told to do so???

what gives?

packerbacker
02-17-2005, 01:32 PM
After I wrote that, I thought immediately you would think maybe I was saying it was you.. lol
You are correct, it wasn't you this time. ;)



Im a good boy now...

The Dude
02-17-2005, 01:50 PM
What's with all these guys coming up with new names?

Too chickensh!t to say something under your real name? So fanatical about following people and around heckling them, they can't stop even when told to do so???

what gives?

I agree, this is supposed to be a professional message board, yet some people are concerned with ragging on each other. Grow up.

Mdirrigation
02-17-2005, 03:51 PM
crawdad, i am not in the home improvement business. it is the business owners responsibility to protect the future of his industry, not mine.


If landscaping and lawn care isnt part of the home improvement business what is it ?

fga
02-17-2005, 04:43 PM
i thought this would have been locked up by now....

Mo Green
02-17-2005, 06:43 PM
Most of his posts should be locked befor the first reply even hits the board.

bobbygedd
02-17-2005, 06:47 PM
Most of his posts should be locked befor the first reply even hits the board.
that's rediculous. i didn't post for a couple weeks, i watched though, and talk about boring.......... you could hear a mouse fart

jasonnau
02-17-2005, 06:59 PM
Now, if you had a mouse problem, would you hire an exterminator that had insurance, or would you hire a local guy who just charged by the mouse? I mean, he probably wouldn't be on ladders or anything. Also, ask him what he charges for moles.
Oh yeah, does a mouse fart loudly, or does it just "squeak" out?

bobbygedd
02-17-2005, 07:03 PM
i don't have mice....the rats ate em all

YardPro
02-17-2005, 07:54 PM
i'll agree that this place has been much less interesting without bobby stirring the pot.

also i will say that bobby is a hypocrite.
the man touts us being a professional and blaming scrubs for ruining the lawncare business, then goes and hires an unliscensed, uninsured scrub to do work just becuase he cannot afford a reputable company.

it's this kind of mentality that keeps the scrubs in business. Guys like bobby that are shopping for lawn care. they don't care about insurance, etc. as long as it's cheap.
do i blame them, nope. these people are only interested in price. period. not the kind of people i want to work for anyhow.

rodfather
02-17-2005, 09:18 PM
then goes and hires an unliscensed, uninsured scrub to do work just becuase he cannot afford a reputable company.

He never said that from the original post...so why are you implying it?

stumper1620
02-17-2005, 09:25 PM
[QUOTE=rodfather]He never said that from the original post...so why are you implying it?[/QUOTE


exactly, I agree with rod. :waving:

Mueller Landscape Inc
02-17-2005, 09:30 PM
He never said that from the original post...so why are you implying it?

Damn Rod, what are you? His big brother?

rodfather
02-17-2005, 09:32 PM
Damn Rod, what are you? His big brother?

No John...someone who reads. Period

DeereHauler
02-17-2005, 09:33 PM
no insurance, no job. What are you going to do when he falls off a ladder and hurts his back. He is on your property and you and or your insurance company is going to pay his medical bills, loss wages, pain and suffuring and any other expenses his lawyer can come up with. I would never hire anyone to do anything that did not have insurance. It could cost you everything you own.


i agree. its not worth taking the chance. either hire the more expensive guy or buy a how to book. i build houses when i don't mow, i wouldn't be near any job without proper insurance.

Mueller Landscape Inc
02-17-2005, 09:33 PM
No...someone who reads. Period

Well then certainly you can see the implication and the hypocrisy???

rodfather
02-17-2005, 09:50 PM
I (for the last 4 or so years here on LS) offer opinions and advice to those who want and need help in the Green Industry about how to run their business and be $ucce$$ful. What Bobby or anyone else does when it comes to remodeling/fixing their home is another area.

I do my best to separate the two. Period

Mueller Landscape Inc
02-17-2005, 10:01 PM
I (for the last 4 or so years here on LS) offer opinions and advice to those who want and need help in the Green Industry about how to run their business and be $ucce$$ful. What Bobby or anyone else does when it comes to remodeling/fixing their home is another area.

I do my best to separate the two. Period

That doesn't really answer the question now does it?

Of course the original post was philosophical in nature and was just begging for... or perhaps trolling for folks to point out the hypocrisy based on his other numerous threads. Now enter big brother Rod... i don't get it? Let him stand on his own two feet, I am sure he doesn't need you to give him validation or maybe he does?

rodfather
02-17-2005, 10:01 PM
Bobby being a hypocrite?? Actually, I don't think so.

He and I have talked for many years and every once in a great while, he gets a wild hair in his azz and thinks he can do something he is NOWHERE anywhere qualified to do...so he starts some project, gets into it, and then it's like OMG!

Hell, I would be lying if I never did that either...give him a break on this one John.

rodfather
02-17-2005, 10:11 PM
That doesn't really answer the question now does it?

Of course the original post was philosophical in nature and was just begging for... or perhaps trolling for folks to point out the hypocrisy based on his other numerous threads. Now enter big brother Rod... i don't get it? Let him stand on his own two feet, I am sure he doesn't need you to give him validation or maybe he does?

I'm not Big Brother Rod to Bobby, John ...in fact, some here on LS might give me that accolade in helping a whole lot of others grow their businesses and help them as I can. As for validation...only one entity can do that IMO.

Mueller Landscape Inc
02-17-2005, 10:16 PM
Rod, I know you are a stand up guy, that's why I was surprised.

rodfather
02-17-2005, 10:27 PM
Yeah John, sometimes I wonder..btw, I do read and value your posts.

Fareway Lawncare
02-17-2005, 10:54 PM
You People are Like a Bunch of Nattering Women at a Tupperware Party....

The Girls of the Green Industry.....The Ladies of Lawnsite.

The Dude
02-17-2005, 11:08 PM
You People are Like a Bunch of Nattering Women at a Tupperware Party....

The Girls of the Green Industry.....The Ladies of Lawnsite.

And you are the old hag staring through the window crying because you didnt get invited.

mower_babe
02-17-2005, 11:15 PM
LMAO! Thank you Dude, I actually laughed out loud at that one. Too Funny. Whew!

leadarrows
02-17-2005, 11:38 PM
"then goes and hires an unliscensed, uninsured scrub to do work just becuase he cannot afford a reputable company"

He never said that from the original post...so why are you implying it?


"you need minor interior work done on your house. the bigger, better, well known companies don't take on small "odd job" type projects, the few that do, want top dollar for it. now, you have a reputable "handy man". he is much much cheaper, and his work quality is up to par, and he will do any small or odd job you want. Is this the part he didn't say? he doesn't carry insurence, and he only accepts cash. he is about 50% cheaper than the other companies. who do you hire?"

Today, 09:03 AM
Norm Al
Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: tampa, florida
Posts: 848

did you pay the lowest, middle or top price bobbym?
Norm Al


#15 Today, 09:05 AM
bobbygedd
*Millennium Member* Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: NJ
Posts: 7,127

i paid the lowest price





:dizzy: But hey who cares. :waving:

bobbygedd
02-18-2005, 12:01 AM
yardbird, i got an a+ job, for about a fifth of the price. i never implied i could not afford a top notch company. by why on earth pay 5 times more for the same exact job?

Mo Green
02-18-2005, 10:49 AM
So.... why should a home owner pay you to cut their lawn when they can hire a non insured "scrub" to do it for half the price? Isn't that what you just did? By your own definition, the "Handy Man" you hired is a "scrub". Don't you usually bash people for not charging their customers enough? Call them scrubs for not carrying insurance? Seems to me that you are feeding the very same machine that you often criticize. That's what I call being a hypocrite.

I'm sure there are plenty of "scrubs" in the green industry that could do an A+ job for half the price. So why shouldn't your customers hire them instead of you?

bobbygedd
02-18-2005, 11:22 AM
i can't worry about the home improvement business, i got my hands full with guys like you in the lawn business. i don't give a crap what the scrubs in the home improvement business do. i worry about my own business, and my own line of work

chevyman1
02-18-2005, 11:27 AM
yes and we all can agree you should continue to worry about your own business and not yell at everyone else calling them fools. Every time you point your finger of accusations, more fingers are pointing back at you

dishboy
02-18-2005, 11:38 AM
yardbird, i got an a+ job, for about a fifth of the price. i never implied i could not afford a top notch company. by why on earth pay 5 times more for the same exact job?


This is exactly why your crusade to standardize pricing in this industry will never work. The guy paying the bill does not care who cuts the grass only how much it cost, was it done on time, and does it look acceptable. By your own admission, why on earth pay 5 times more for the exact same job. I wish it was not so, I would really like to adjust my rates more aggresively.

bobbygedd
02-18-2005, 12:07 PM
i cannot go to people in the home improvement business, and preach price structure, i know nothing about the business, the regulations, permit requirement, etc. i am familiar with the lawn care business however, and what others do in lawn care, directly effects my pocket and the way customers view me. i'm not pointing fingers, merely stateing facts. i'll tell you one thing about this "scrub", he wasn't stupid enough to extend credit, he wanted his money when it was due, which is more, than i can say for most lawnboys. it is up to him, and his counterparts, to improve thier industry. it is up to us, and our counterparts, to improve ours. case closed

dishboy
02-18-2005, 12:29 PM
i cannot go to people in the home improvement business, and preach price structure, i know nothing about the business, the regulations, permit requirement, etc. i am familiar with the lawn care business however, and what others do in lawn care, directly effects my pocket and the way customers view me. i'm not pointing fingers, merely stateing facts. i'll tell you one thing about this "scrub", he wasn't stupid enough to extend credit, he wanted his money when it was due, which is more, than i can say for most lawnboys. it is up to him, and his counterparts, to improve thier industry. it is up to us, and our counterparts, to improve ours. case closed

I agree with you in principal, my point is as soon as Lawn-Boys agree to "improve the industry" and raise prices accordingly, Mr. Scrub will low-ball you. The scrub will get the job in a open marketplace. Scrubs set the going rate. Put a ad in the paper and bid at what prices ought to be and see how it goes. Chances are the low price bid by the first "acceptable" looking character with limited horticultural knowledge will get the job. That being said I try to raise my pricing every year as much as I believe my market will bear.

Joel B.
02-18-2005, 12:33 PM
So.... why should a home owner pay you to cut their lawn when they can hire a non insured "scrub" to do it for half the price? Isn't that what you just did? By your own definition, the "Handy Man" you hired is a "scrub". Don't you usually bash people for not charging their customers enough? Call them scrubs for not carrying insurance? Seems to me that you are feeding the very same machine that you often criticize. That's what I call being a hypocrite.

I'm sure there are plenty of "scrubs" in the green industry that could do an A+ job for half the price. So why shouldn't your customers hire them instead of you?


My thoughts exactly, I couldn't have said it better.

dishboy
02-18-2005, 12:37 PM
My thoughts exactly, I couldn't have said it better.


"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example"


Mark Twain

bobbygedd
02-18-2005, 12:37 PM
ok dishboy, and that's where u and i come in. i know that i personally am responsible for swaying a clients mind from choosing a scrub. the difference in the home improvement mans price was alot of money. for the initial job, i had quotes of between $650-$950 from bigger companies. the scrub did it for $200. huge difference. now, the difference in OUR LAWN MOWING RATES, are alot easier to sell, because , for example, the scrub comes in at $20-$25. we come in at $30-$35. that's only a difference of $5, $10 bucks. when i do a bid, i bring a copy of my ins papers, a copy of my pesticide license, tax i.d #, and written referells from happy customers. i tell them that for a few bucks more, they can have all this. if your $22 man can't produce this, they shouldn't be allowed to work on your property, and actually probably legally shouldn't be there. we can make life miserable for the scrub, without being a "snitch" or doing anything underhanded.

packerbacker
02-18-2005, 12:47 PM
ok dishboy, and that's where u and i come in. i know that i personally am responsible for swaying a clients mind from choosing a scrub. the difference in the home improvement mans price was alot of money. for the initial job, i had quotes of between $650-$950 from bigger companies. the scrub did it for $200. huge difference. now, the difference in OUR LAWN MOWING RATES, are alot easier to sell, because , for example, the scrub comes in at $20-$25. we come in at $30-$35. that's only a difference of $5, $10 bucks. when i do a bid, i bring a copy of my ins papers, a copy of my pesticide license, tax i.d #, and written referells from happy customers. i tell them that for a few bucks more, they can have all this. if your $22 man can't produce this, they shouldn't be allowed to work on your property, and actually probably legally shouldn't be there. we can make life miserable for the scrub, without being a "snitch" or doing anything underhanded.







LOL........

bobbygedd
02-18-2005, 03:35 PM
don't u laugh at me beanbrain, if u lived somewhere where the family trees actually had branches, you'd be out of business in 2 months

jbell113
02-18-2005, 05:09 PM
no insurance, no job. What are you going to do when he falls off a ladder and hurts his back. He is on your property and you and or your insurance company is going to pay his medical bills, loss wages, pain and suffuring and any other expenses his lawyer can come up with. I would never hire anyone to do anything that did not have insurance. It could cost you everything you own.


What if you made him sign a waiver , waiving his rights to sue you if he gets hurt.

bobbygedd
02-18-2005, 05:13 PM
what if i just bury him in the backyard?

The Dude
02-18-2005, 05:52 PM
what if i just bury him in the backyard?

Eventually you will run out of room, if you keep that up. ask John Wayne Gacy. :)