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View Full Version : The new Stihl BR 500 Backpack Blower


Turf Tamers
02-19-2005, 03:09 AM
I was at my dealer yesterday shopping for a new backpack blower. I'm a part-timer so spending up wards of $450.00 on a blower is a big deal for me. Anyway looking at the performance of the new 4 mix Stihl 500 "which is not even in the store yet", would I be better off with the Stihl or the much talked about RedMaxx 8000?

aries
02-19-2005, 09:48 AM
Go Red max I bought a sthl last season and it is the worst no power compared to the Red max!

coastallandscapesolutions
02-19-2005, 09:52 AM
I have a RedMax 8000... one of the first. Awesome unit. Three weeks ago I had the change to demo the new Sthil. It is nice and lighter. But it does not have the push power of the RedMax.

bobbygedd
02-19-2005, 10:45 AM
i threw my stihl off of a bridge

coastallandscapesolutions
02-19-2005, 10:51 AM
i threw my stihl off of a bridge


Nice to see you are alive Bobby.... I was worried that you had lost your shovel.

grass_cuttin_fool
02-19-2005, 11:21 AM
I have a RedMax 8000... one of the first. Awesome unit. Three weeks ago I had the change to demo the new Sthil. It is nice and lighter. But it does not have the push power of the RedMax.
Which stihl was that? I had a long talk with the stihl rep yesterday. I cant qoute the model numbers but I think its the 500, it is a low noise to comply with noise regulations in neighborhoods and is a low power blower. The 550 is suppose to compare to the 420 of today and the biggest blower is going to be a 800 or 850 or 880 I cant remember the number. It is suppose to be alot stronger than the 420's of today. Now that is from the stihl rep, take it for what its worth. They are suppose to be out in april or may. The rep said they want to be sure the bugs are worked out before they hit the market

HOMER
02-19-2005, 11:23 AM
i threw my stihl off of a bridge


Who's leg was it attached to?

aries
02-19-2005, 12:01 PM
unless they were to give to me for free I wouldn't buy It I asked the guy when I bought this one how it compared to Red max he said it was similar as far as power well bull to that!!!!!! I think it was around $300.00 or so, it sits!

Rhett
02-19-2005, 12:16 PM
My 420 sits on the porch and is only used to blow the water off the vehicles after washing. Saw the specs on the new ones and they are not that much more impressive. Don't know about the Red Max but with the ECho the only down sides compared to the stihl is weight and fuel consumption

Legacy
02-19-2005, 03:05 PM
4 Mix blowers now?? Why can't Stihl build 2 cycle equipment anymore? RedMax and Echo are doing it and doing it well. Lighter, more power, more fuel efficient etc...that's why we bought 2 cycle stuff in the first place!!

4 Mix is too complicated and way too many moving parts..Why not strap on a Kawasaki 4 stroke?

Get with it Stihl and build some high quality 2 cycle equipment again.....until you figure it out I'm using Echo and RedMax stuff!!

DennisF
02-19-2005, 07:20 PM
4 Mix blowers now?? Why can't Stihl build 2 cycle equipment anymore? RedMax and Echo are doing it and doing it well. Lighter, more power, more fuel efficient etc...that's why we bought 2 cycle stuff in the first place!!

4 Mix is too complicated and way too many moving parts..Why not strap on a Kawasaki 4 stroke?

Get with it Stihl and build some high quality 2 cycle equipment again.....until you figure it out I'm using Echo and RedMax stuff!!

You're obviously not aware that all manufacturer's of gasoline powered tools must eliminate 2 cycle engines from their equipment because of EPA emissions laws. By 2010 all 2 cycle equipment will no longer conform to EPA emissions rules. That is why Stihl is getting into 4 stroke technology now instead of waiting for the last minute.

khutch
02-19-2005, 08:49 PM
Sad but true about the EPA regs....Stihl not doubt will lose some customers these first few years but will probably be ahead 5 years down the road. Which is the smart way to do biz...
Haven't you guys noticed you can't get 2 cycle Suzuki's anymore?

Legacy
02-19-2005, 09:45 PM
You're obviously not aware that all manufacturer's of gasoline powered tools must eliminate 2 cycle engines from their equipment because of EPA emissions laws. By 2010 all 2 cycle equipment will no longer conform to EPA emissions rules. That is why Stihl is getting into 4 stroke technology now instead of waiting for the last minute.

No, you are obviously not aware that there are NO 2010 EPA regulations..check the EPA website or ask your local dealer if you don't believe me...Stihl cannot build 2 cycle equipment to get past the now current 2005 EPA regulations... that's a sad fact

Again..there are NO EPA regulations beyond 2005 at this point...RedMax and Echo have 2 cycle technology that will continue on for years and years..

Both Echo and RedMax' new 2 cycle technology run as clean or cleaner than 4 cycle units

You have been sold a load of crap by someone....

DennisF
02-19-2005, 10:38 PM
No, you are obviously not aware that there are NO 2010 EPA regulations..check the EPA website or ask your local dealer if you don't believe me...Stihl cannot build 2 cycle equipment to get past the now current 2005 EPA regulations... that's a sad fact

Again..there are NO EPA regulations beyond 2005 at this point...RedMax and Echo have 2 cycle technology that will continue on for years and years..

Both Echo and RedMax' new 2 cycle technology run as clean or cleaner than 4 cycle units

You have been sold a load of crap by someone....


Here is a link to the "load of crap". http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cleaner-nonroad/f03011.pdf. This particular document only covers years 2002-2007, but the epa sets emissions standards 5 years in advance so that manufacturers have time to comply.

Stihl is manufacturing and selling 2 cycle equipment in the U.S. as we speak so... evidently your info on Stihl's ability to meet 2005 emission requirements is not from a reliable source. Perhaps you received it from a Echo or Redmax dealer. Stihl's equipment is already meeting 2007 requirements for emissions, but that's not good enough for them. That is the reason that 4-mix technology is being rushed. The 4 cycle engine emits far less pollutants than any 2 stroke regardless of who makes it. It is a matter of physics and not any particular brand. The 2 cycle engine is rapidly being phased out by all manufacturer's. This includes marine engines as well as lawn equipment.

There is nothing wrong with being dedicated to a particular brand. If you like Echo or Redmax products...that's wonderful. I've used Stihl for over 30 years and have had few problems with any of their stuff. The quality is head and shoulders above any other manufacturer in my opinion. I've used Echo on occasion, and their equipment doesn't come close to Stihl in reliability or durability.

dkeisala
02-19-2005, 10:59 PM
I run all Stihl except for one piece of Shindaiwa. I have 2 pieces of the Stihl 4-mix. When the 4-mix is running, it's great but I have two complaints that I think are pretty major: 1) both leak fuel even after the seals have been replaced, and 2) they are VERY hard to start.

I think the 4-mix is great. I love the fact they don't spew exhaust and run far quieter than a 2 stroke. But until the kinks are worked out I think I'll stick with 2-cycle.

I'm all about new technology but I don't really care to be the guinea pig.

Legacy
02-19-2005, 11:39 PM
EPA adopted Phase 2 standards for Small SI engines in two separate
rulemakings:

• For handheld applications (such as leaf blowers and chainsaws), the
second set of emission standards phases in between 2002 and 2007
and will result in an additional 70 percent reduction in HC and NOx

Your EPA information is a bit old....Phase 2 standards came into effect in January 2005. The new limit is 37 grams per horsepower hour HC and NOx.

Both Redmax and Echo meet and exceed these standards. Quality 2 cycle equipment that meet or beat the EPA standards....There are NO requirements/standards in place beyond this new phase 2. If anyone tells you any different they are lying. (This is where the load of crap comes in)

Quality 2 cycle equipment from Redmax and Echo is here to stay! Both companies are putting millions of dollars into technology to guarantee it!!

mownredneck
02-20-2005, 12:19 AM
Stihl is a whole lot lighter than echo is! I picked up an echo one day at hd and it is a lot heavyier than my 80r, and it was a smaller unit!

battags
02-20-2005, 12:33 AM
Stihl is still the leader. Check their market share.

My father-in-law is a dealer and was recently at a day long info meeting hosted by Stihl. He even agrees that the 4-mix is going to put Stihl years above the competition due to inevitable EPA regs, but to hold off buying one until they get the kinks worked out.

Brian

Legacy
02-20-2005, 12:41 AM
Stihl is still the leader. Check their market share.

My father-in-law is a dealer and was recently at a day long info meeting hosted by Stihl. He even agrees that the 4-mix is going to put Stihl years above the competition due to inevitable EPA regs, but to hold off buying one until they get the kinks worked out.

Brian

Their market share in what? Chain Saws? The last reports that I saw from our industry magazines was that Echo had the strongest market share in trimmers, blowers and hedge clippers. Stihl is the leader in Chain Saws.

Redmax is coming on strong in most categories however!

Where is your father in law a dealer?

Cobra Jock
02-20-2005, 12:55 AM
Their market share in what? Chain Saws? The last reports that I saw from our industry magazines was that Echo had the strongest market share in trimmers, blowers and hedge clippers. Stihl is the leader in Chain Saws.

Redmax is coming on strong in most categories however!

Where is your father in law a dealer?

One big reason that echo has that big share, IMO, is people can run down to home cheapo and put them on their home cheapo interest free for 6 months credit card. As long as stihl stays out of the big box and with the o.p.e. mam and pop stores, I'll be buying stihl, period.

Greg

battags
02-20-2005, 01:20 AM
Their market share in what? Chain Saws? The last reports that I saw from our industry magazines was that Echo had the strongest market share in trimmers, blowers and hedge clippers. Stihl is the leader in Chain Saws.

Redmax is coming on strong in most categories however!

Where is your father in law a dealer?

Up in your neck of the woods, the "North East"......

Do ya know him?

Brian

Shadetree Ltd
02-20-2005, 02:54 AM
Both Stihl and Shindaiwa are making 4 cycle equipment for a few reasons. The POSSIBILITY of the 2 cycle not making future epa regulations, to demonstrate industry leadership and corporate averaging. The epa continues to make the emissions regs tighter and cleaner. While new 2 cycle equipment exceeds these standards, they are approaching the point where they can't make them much cleaner. They might still exceed further epa regs when/if they come down the line, but they can't be sure. Both companies are using their 4 cycle to their best marketing advantage. Not only are they leading the industry in a new, more environmentally friendly direction they feel they are demonstrating their strive to further enhance and improve our livelihoods with R&D. Lastly, I was told that the cleaner 4 cycle engines allow them to continue to produce more of the 2 cycle engines we have come to love. It was explained that all the emmisions are averaged in studies, and the newer cleaner burning 4 cycle lowers the average for each company respectively. These new lower averages are what they market to the epa. They are showing a greater decrease in the overall emissions of their hand held lines thanks to them. The theory is that the epa will divert their attention to other pollution sources. Don't forget Shindaiwa's new 4 cycle blower coming out late fall.

Scott

Legacy
02-20-2005, 10:13 AM
Up in your neck of the woods, the "North East"......

Do ya know him?

Brian

Kinda would need to know the company name to see if I know of him wouldn't I??

Mower Man
02-20-2005, 10:19 AM
Pinochioits Disease = Nose grows longer as a result of willfully mistating the facts (lies), or deliberate witholding of the "rest of the story" (truth) that give
one an unfair advantage.

We have been fed a combination of partial truths, and mistatements because some big players are BEHIND not only in developing the technology, but bringing it into the manufacturing circles.

I hope a 'little history' may just open your eyes as to this BS.
Make sure my axe edge is sharpened only to severe the truth from the lies, and misinformation we're getting.

There is actually a Federally mandated labeling rating system that was done to help make ALL of us smarter shoppers, better buyers, and give us more CHOICES to buy better, cleaner engines.


This was done because many realized especially consumer watch dog groups that the type of BS that's floating around today would occur. It has.

One of the rating labels known as Emissions Durability Peroid (EDP) WAS APPROVED by ALL the engine makers.
Some smiling, and some grinding their corporate teeth, but if they wanted to be in the business legally they had to comply.

Any one hear that John Deere got in trouble for having & selling illegal engines in Calilfornia?
Anyone know JD bought Homelite, tried to develop a 'clean engine, built new plant in....Mexico, couldn't make the engine work, shelved it, sold all except the engine taking a 'write off' of over $110,000, 000.00 (one hundred ten million) US dollars?

Anyone know that Stihl has bought development/licensing rights to the JD engine, and that they partnered with Mercedes Benz to help develop it?
Yes they need to buy technology, and need help.

Dolmar did that years ago with....Porche....and has had a 57cc four stroker Pro chain saw in Europe. Had four strokes on the market years ahead of any othe saw maker.

Fuji Robin, and Shindiawa partnered together to each develop two different four stokes. The split going their own ways.
Fuji is associated with Makita, which owns Dolmar (seperate company) has 3 or 4 different four cycles with straight gas.
Shindaiwa had only one using two cycle gas.

Anyone know Husqvarnas, "our" new model 324 four stroke is actually a Honda in disguise? So much for "our" engine.

Even today some are wrongly calling EDP as Engine Durability Peroid referring to the engines service life, and wrongly saying the Emissions Durability Peroid has nothing to do with actual engine componet life.

EDP rating is done three ways so it's easy to understand one way or another.
They're interchangeable.
A,B,C.
50 hours, 125 hours, 300 hours.
Standard, Intermediate, Extended.

A= 50 hours= Standard
B= 125 hours= Intermediate
C= 300 hours= Extended

1970 President Nixon signed into law the EPA regs. Without giving a big history since then we'll fast forward 10-20 years.

The players of two cycle manufacturers that did business in 80's in the USA were, Poulan, Homelite, McCulloch, Stihl, Echo (Kioritz), Green Machine (Zenoah now Komatsu-Zenoah aka Red Max), and the Swedes not all combined then, Partner, Jonsereds, Husqvarna, Tanaka Kogyo, and Shindiawa.

Many of the biggest 'players', mainly the US, and European (trying not to name names, but you can figure it out), said, "We can;t meet these levels", "No technology is available", "These will put us out of business", "American consumer will have to play horribly high prices if made".

Some of the biggest 'players' with big market share, and even bigger egos, actually thought they could get the regs....cancelled, dumbed down, or at least delayed for years.

Boy did they have their heads up their planet Uranus.
Found out the hard way that both California Air Resource Board (CARB), and the EPA were literal steam rollers, and these big cry babies (sorry...just had to let a little loose them) were nothing more than marshmellows.

In '95 at a EPA meeting when the big boys were say, "no, No, NO it can't be done", BOTH Tanaka, and Red Max raised their hands stating that they ALREADY had APPROVED two stokes.
The guantlet was thrown down, and the race was on.

Let's look at.......Early two stroke Lean Emissions (LE) development:
Tanaka's 'Pure Fire' no catalytic muffler. Ist generation.
Red Max 'Strato Charge' no catalytic muffler. Ist generation.
Both Stratified engines with effective 'short circuiting' technologies.

Later development:
Maryauma 'CE' no catalytic muffler.
Mitsubishi 'TLE' without catalytic muffler. Four models stratified
Echo 'Tornado' no catalytic muffler. Ist generation.
Husqvarna 'CE' with a catalytic muffler
Stihl with catalytic muffler.

Todays' developments:
Tanaka 'Pure Fire" with & without catalytic muffler. 1st & 2nd generation.
Red Max 'Strato Charged'...2nd generation. No catalytic muffler.
Echo 'Tornado' 2nd generation....coming....without catalytic muffler.
Husqvarna 'X Torque' Stratified without catalytic muffler.
Stihl Stratified (in new TS700) without catalytic muffler.

Remember air pumps on automotive engines?
Look at who developed two cycle Stratified engines, first, and is now.
See a pattern of two stroke development?
See a pattern of Stratified technology?
See the Johnny come lately companies?
Companies have Patents on two strokes have sucessfully locked out some of the competitors from developing their own two strokes, and some will/can/are paying royalites to the companies that have Patents so they can make 'their own' engines.

Guess what ???? One company 'X' has a improved version that will actually exceed ( have lower) emissions that standards require. Should be available this year.
Another company 'XX' says they too have a two stroke exceeding the regs.

Semm like the two stoke is dying?????

Now, go back and look at which one the real big boys has been pushing four stokes in trimmers, now back pack blowers, who now is pushing and/or intrducing four strokes, and you can put some the pieces of the Low Emission (LE) engine puzzle together.

There is alot more to say about four stoke development & the developers.
Hope this is some enlightment and lets one be more comfortable, and a smarter buyer about buying two cycles, and the future.

Legacy
02-20-2005, 10:20 AM
Both Stihl and Shindaiwa are making 4 cycle equipment for a few reasons. The POSSIBILITY of the 2 cycle not making future epa regulations, to demonstrate industry leadership and corporate averaging. The epa continues to make the emissions regs tighter and cleaner. While new 2 cycle equipment exceeds these standards, they are approaching the point where they can't make them much cleaner. They might still exceed further epa regs when/if they come down the line, but they can't be sure. Both companies are using their 4 cycle to their best marketing advantage. Not only are they leading the industry in a new, more environmentally friendly direction they feel they are demonstrating their strive to further enhance and improve our livelihoods with R&D. Lastly, I was told that the cleaner 4 cycle engines allow them to continue to produce more of the 2 cycle engines we have come to love. It was explained that all the emmisions are averaged in studies, and the newer cleaner burning 4 cycle lowers the average for each company respectively. These new lower averages are what they market to the epa. They are showing a greater decrease in the overall emissions of their hand held lines thanks to them. The theory is that the epa will divert their attention to other pollution sources. Don't forget Shindaiwa's new 4 cycle blower coming out late fall.

Scott

A lot of what you said is true but.....

The EPA does NOT continue to make "the regs tighter and cleaner." The last batch of regs just came into effect this year and is the last requirement for these particular products. The sad fact is that current Stihl/Shindaiwa 2 cycle products can't even meet these regs!!

RedMax and even Echo's new 2 cycle technology run as clean as the new 4 mix products from Stihl and Shindaiwa...There is averaging going on but if Stihl is continuing to produce the 2 cycle stuff you know and love what happened to the popular FS-85 trimmer?? It's GONE due to EPA

The end all truth is that Redmax and Echo have produced better, more efficient 2 cylce engines that will be around for years. This is very good news for us 'scapers that don't want to switch brands and want to continue on with high quality 2 cycle stuff..

Smalltimer1
02-20-2005, 11:09 AM
No, you are obviously not aware that there are NO 2010 EPA regulations..check the EPA website or ask your local dealer if you don't believe me...Stihl cannot build 2 cycle equipment to get past the now current 2005 EPA regulations... that's a sad fact

Again..there are NO EPA regulations beyond 2005 at this point...RedMax and Echo have 2 cycle technology that will continue on for years and years..

Both Echo and RedMax' new 2 cycle technology run as clean or cleaner than 4 cycle units

You have been sold a load of crap by someone....

My father did the 2 cycle and 4 cycle testing for the EPA (he's a government contractor) and the other guys are right, 2010 is the deadline. And right now, Red Max and Echo won't make the cut, start cryin' boys.......your Red Maxes and Echos will be discontinued in 4 years....better stock up on rebuild kits......Red Max and Echo will have to come right out of the drawing board with a new product which we all know takes years to develop, while Stihl with their 4-Mix technology will already be on top of the game, as the exhaust analyzers that were used proved.

Mower Man
02-20-2005, 11:41 AM
Legacy, and Smalltimer1.....Glad to see some good responses.
This facilitates the truth coming out.

Persoanlly know engineers from Sweden, Germany, Japan, that have worked on the LE's.
Last but not least one of the consultants to the EPA in the engine classes we're concerned about.

There are phase in peroids.
There is averaging & banking available to companies. One has over 4 billion points banked.

There are two engines today, recently got an email from one designer....from different companies not yet Federally tested, where THC's drop below 37g., which will meet future standards.....today.

The cost of making the internals is less than 2% including changeover.
But because of inventory already built, component inventory on hand to be build......they won't offically test & release till they sell down on what's already in the pipe line.

They're not about to release 'secrets'...yet.
There is a potential problem with telling too much too soon. We have come so far in this industry that if too much is released too soon, we may....may see CARB rear it's head and again drive more regs around exhaust.

CARB Tier III is already law, and will affect us regarding Permeation-Leakage, and Vaporization.

Wait till dealers & buyers are told the truth about some companies extensive maintenance, AND expensive parts replacements.

Legacy
02-20-2005, 02:18 PM
My father did the 2 cycle and 4 cycle testing for the EPA (he's a government contractor) and the other guys are right, 2010 is the deadline. And right now, Red Max and Echo won't make the cut, start cryin' boys.......your Red Maxes and Echos will be discontinued in 4 years....better stock up on rebuild kits......Red Max and Echo will have to come right out of the drawing board with a new product which we all know takes years to develop, while Stihl with their 4-Mix technology will already be on top of the game, as the exhaust analyzers that were used proved.

OK..one more time..for the LAST time!!

There is NO 2010 EPA regs regarding hand held equipment!! The new regs that just took effect this year are the last ones on the books at the EPA!!

If anyone can prove me wrong with actual facts/articles from the EPA GO FOR IT but..they don't exist.

Another thing that you missed in my message is that the NEWEST enignes that are just being introduced by Redmax and Echo run as clean if not cleaner than the 4 mix variants from Shindaiwa and Stihl

2 cylce is here to stay for the companies (Redmax and Echo) that have the technology and quality to do it!!

The ramblings by smalltimer1 above are TOTALLY FALSE..not even close to the actual truth!!

DennisF
02-20-2005, 06:11 PM
OK..one more time..for the LAST time!!

There is NO 2010 EPA regs regarding hand held equipment!! The new regs that just took effect this year are the last ones on the books at the EPA!!

If anyone can prove me wrong with actual facts/articles from the EPA GO FOR IT but..they don't exist.

Another thing that you missed in my message is that the NEWEST enignes that are just being introduced by Redmax and Echo run as clean if not cleaner than the 4 mix variants from Shindaiwa and Stihl

2 cylce is here to stay for the companies (Redmax and Echo) that have the technology and quality to do it!!

The ramblings by smalltimer1 above are TOTALLY FALSE..not even close to the actual truth!!

Why don't you quit running your mouth and post some links to your BS stories. Back up your babble with some hard data! Who the hell cares about your message. Your all mouth!!!

You sound like a brain-dead 2 day wonder that hasn't figured out that Echo makes toys for Joe Homeowner. Serious lawn care professionals don't give a sh/t about your message or your F**d-up opinions

Fareway Lawncare
02-20-2005, 06:19 PM
The Non-Home Depot Echo Stuff is On Par w/the Best from RedMax, Stihl, Shin etc...the problem is PPL buy the HD Crap & expect Commercial Quality..

Stihl blowers are Underpowered...They Can't Even Make a 4Mix that Matches a Big Echo or RedMax Blower...

I Won't buy anything But 2Cycle Until it is Abosolutely Forced Upon Me.

Legacy
02-20-2005, 07:42 PM
The Non-Home Depot Echo Stuff is On Par w/the Best from RedMax, Stihl, Shin etc...the problem is PPL buy the HD Crap & expect Commercial Quality..

Stihl blowers are Underpowered...They Can't Even Make a 4Mix that Matches a Big Echo or RedMax Blower...

I Won't buy anything But 2Cycle Until it is Abosolutely Forced Upon Me.


Amen...I feel the same way and 2 cycle will be around for years to come..

Legacy
02-20-2005, 07:49 PM
Why don't you quit running your mouth and post some links to your BS stories. Back up your babble with some hard data! Who the hell cares about your message. Your all mouth!!!

You sound like a brain-dead 2 day wonder that hasn't figured out that Echo makes toys for Joe Homeowner. Serious lawn care professionals don't give a sh/t about your message or your F**d-up opinions

OK...I throw it back on YOU...YOU provide backup for your freakin ramblings and BS that YOU are posting! Show me evidence of 2010 regulations for these products...you won't find any!!

My evidence is called the EPA and I will research and supply the information requested.

But...in the meantime.....bite me!

AND....Fareway is correct!! Echo's top line product is NOT sold at Home Depot and it is as good as anything else out there but obviously you are too stupid to know this....

Maybe your are the one with the F**d up opinions??

DennisF
02-20-2005, 08:43 PM
OK...I throw it back on YOU...YOU provide backup for your freakin ramblings and BS that YOU are posting! Show me evidence of 2010 regulations for these products...you won't find any!!

My evidence is called the EPA and I will research and supply the information requested.

But...in the meantime.....bite me!

AND....Fareway is correct!! Echo's top line product is NOT sold at Home Depot and it is as good as anything else out there but obviously you are too stupid to know this....

Maybe your are the one with the F**d up opinions??

After reading you're rantings about the particular brands that you promote and a few of your other responses to posts about different brands and other members ideas, it's obvious that you are an immature, driveling dimwit, incapable of thinking like an adult. You've been registered on this site all of 2 days and you've done nothing but bash the posts and ideas of other members. Only an imbecile would conduct them-self in such a way. Nobody on this site gives a sh/t about your opinions on the equipment used in this business. Opinions are like azzholes.... everybody has one. Nobody cares if you think your tool brand is superior to all others. You're making yourself look like a complete fool with your EPA babble. Go do your Echo commercials somewhere else.

At first you irritated me. Now I find you amusing. I was going to put you on ignore, but i changed my mind. You're good for a laugh now that I think about it. You're probably some 15 year old, still wet behind the ears punk that daydreams about being a grown-up. Bite yourself punk...you'll get a bigger kick out of it!

Legacy
02-20-2005, 08:54 PM
After reading you're rantings about the particular brands that you promote and a few of your other responses to posts about different brands and other members ideas, it's obvious that you are an immature, driveling dimwit, incapable of thinking like an adult. You've been registered on this site all of 2 days and you've done nothing but bash the posts and ideas of other members. Only an imbecile would conduct them-self in such a way. Nobody on this site gives a sh/t about your opinions on the equipment used in this business. Opinions are like azzholes.... everybody has one. Nobody cares if you think your tool brand is superior to all others. You're making yourself look like a complete fool with your EPA babble. Go do your Echo commercials somewhere else.

At first you irritated me. Now I find you amusing. I was going to put you on ignore, but i changed my mind. You're good for a laugh now that I think about it. You're probably some 15 year old, still wet behind the ears punk that daydreams about being a grown-up. Bite yourself punk...you'll get a bigger kick out of it!

If YOU weren't so freakin stupid you would realize that my choice of equipment is Redmax and ExMark....I have made that clear....Redmax is leading the charge in this 2 cycle EPA drama

You are an absolute moron!!

By the way..my offer still stands and I will up the ante (do you know what ante means??) IF you can find something to back up your 2010 EPA standard BS I will personally apologize to you

DennisF
02-20-2005, 09:02 PM
If YOU weren't so freakin stupid you would realize that my choice of equipment is Redmax and ExMark....I have made that clear....Redmax is leading the charge in this 2 cycle EPA drama

You are an absolute moron!!

By the way..my offer still stands and I will up the ante (do you know what ante means??) IF you can find something to back up your 2010 EPA standard BS I will personally apologize to you

Go away little boy..you bother me.

Legacy
02-20-2005, 09:06 PM
Go away little boy..you bother me.

Now you show your true colors.....

Thank you!

None of your BS can be substantiated as I suspected....

Shocking!!

I'm done here....

Can we please move on?? Maybe even get along to some degree??

Smalltimer1
02-20-2005, 10:37 PM
OK..one more time..for the LAST time!!

There is NO 2010 EPA regs regarding hand held equipment!! The new regs that just took effect this year are the last ones on the books at the EPA!!

If anyone can prove me wrong with actual facts/articles from the EPA GO FOR IT but..they don't exist.

Another thing that you missed in my message is that the NEWEST enignes that are just being introduced by Redmax and Echo run as clean if not cleaner than the 4 mix variants from Shindaiwa and Stihl

2 cylce is here to stay for the companies (Redmax and Echo) that have the technology and quality to do it!!

The ramblings by smalltimer1 above are TOTALLY FALSE..not even close to the actual truth!!

Sorry to bust your bubble, but I can get documentation to prove EVERYTHING you spout off as bull sh*t.

Legacies aren't made from lies.

Legacy
02-21-2005, 12:05 AM
Sorry to bust your bubble, but I can get documentation to prove EVERYTHING you spout off as bull sh*t.

Legacies aren't made from lies.


If you can get documentation proving that there is a 2010 EPA regulation regarding hand held products go for it!!

IF you provide the documentation I will apologize formally to you.

Good luck! It doesn't exist....

battags
02-21-2005, 10:13 AM
If you can get documentation proving that there is a 2010 EPA regulation regarding hand held products go for it!!

IF you provide the documentation I will apologize formally to you.

Good luck! It doesn't exist....

Legacy,

First off, a word of advice.... Take it, or leave it, it's up to you. You have now been on LS for a total of 3 days. Welcome to the forum.

That being said, you are rapidly ticking many people off. It's not so much what you say, but the tone you have decided to use. You can run up your post count all you want in the shortest time possible, but that doesn't earn respect here.

My suggesstions: Appologize, lay off, calm down, be considerate, and realize that others are entitled to thier opinions as much as you are entitled to your own. Give input, don't bash. Provoke debate and discussion, don't call someone a liar and tell them they are wrong.

No, I've never met your mother, but I'm sure she's told you the same things growing up......

Good Luck,

Brian

scottt
02-21-2005, 11:31 AM
Legacy,

First off, a word of advice.... Take it, or leave it, it's up to you. You have now been on LS for a total of 3 days. Welcome to the forum.

That being said, you are rapidly ticking many people off. It's not so much what you say, but the tone you have decided to use. You can run up your post count all you want in the shortest time possible, but that doesn't earn respect here.

My suggesstions: Appologize, lay off, calm down, be considerate, and realize that others are entitled to thier opinions as much as you are entitled to your own. Give input, don't bash. Provoke debate and discussion, don't call someone a liar and tell them they are wrong.

No, I've never met your mother, but I'm sure she's told you the same things growing up......

Good Luck,

Brian
Amen brother Battags.

Martino
02-21-2005, 10:57 PM
Nobody on this site gives a sh/t about your opinions on the equipment used in this business.


Uh, that's incorrect. I give a sh/t. Please don't speak for me.

Please post your proof of the 2010 regs, DennisF.

You too, SmallTot.

Smalltimer1
02-22-2005, 01:54 PM
Uh, that's incorrect. I give a sh/t. Please don't speak for me.

Please post your proof of the 2010 regs, DennisF.

You too, SmallTot.

Ok Martina.

http://www.curezone.com/forums/troll.asp

There you go. That will help you overcome yourself.

Martino
02-22-2005, 04:18 PM
Your silence on the subject at hand speaks volumes about what you know, SmallTown.

TomB
02-22-2005, 10:22 PM
This is a prime example of why a forum like lawnsite is not great for the industry. There is so much mis-information here that nobody knows what true or just some guys opinion because he is particular to a certain brand. All the brands you talked about are good and I doubt they are going anyplace soon.

Martino
02-22-2005, 10:43 PM
This is a prime example of why a forum like lawnsite is not great for the industry. There is so much mis-information here that nobody knows what true or just some guys opinion because he is particular to a certain brand. All the brands you talked about are good and I doubt they are going anyplace soon.

Precisely why DennisF and SmallTime have been asked repeatedly to supply links to the info they claim to be true, which, to date, we're all still waiting for.

jtkplc
02-22-2005, 11:16 PM
WOW, those last 2 pages were a complete waste of my time because some people can't back up what they say. I don't know who is right, but I wish we could see some proof to what you're saying. I, along with alot of others, would like to see the truth. All I know right now is that a couple of you are just bashing back and forth and not supplying any proof. Let's see the proof guys. I'm looking into buying a packback blower and went to this thread to find some good info. It started off ok, but now I don't know what to think. So let's stop playing games and give us some info that will help others make informed decisions to help them with their business.

txlawnking
02-22-2005, 11:53 PM
But oh so true..The needless bickering on LS, that is. I don't know the "facts" about the epa, nor do I really care.. I do know this much however: The Redmax 8000 blower is almost twice as powerful as a Stihl br 420... And if the new Stihl 4 mix blower is even half as difficult to start as an ole' 420, you couldn't give me a truck load of em'...Stihl HAS and COULD make excellent 2 cycle stuff. ( I used to own quite a few of their saws, in addition to the aforementioned blower.) But lately, they don't seem to compare to Redmax.. And you guys are sure are right about LCO's buying the Home Depot Echo equipment and expecting it to last like the commercial quality Echo gear..You get what ya pay for, and in the case of the 4 mix blower.. It doen't seem like much.

Smalltimer1
02-23-2005, 12:22 AM
Your silence on the subject at hand speaks volumes about what you know, SmallTown.

Martina you are a wimp you won't even list your location on the other site. :cry:

Effective January 1, 2010. All new model year 2010 outdoor power equipment must comply with clean air and emissions standards set forth by the Environmental Air Quality Standards division.

So, as you can see the actual numbers haven't been released as of yet, but they do exist. Cry on Martina.

Smalltimer1
02-23-2005, 12:23 AM
Precisely why DennisF and SmallTime have been asked repeatedly to supply links to the info they claim to be true, which, to date, we're all still waiting for.


And we're waiting for you to list your true location on the other site instead of Tonga! What a crock you are. I put waders on when I see your name.

Here I'll make it easy for you, you put me on ignore and I'll do the same for you. You are a troll and make it your mission to piss everyone you can off.

Fareway Lawncare
02-23-2005, 01:22 AM
Who Really Cares...Right Now the Stihl 4Mix is Second Rate compared to the 2 Cycle Stuff From the Big Boys....Stihl Can't even Produce a 4Mix Blower that compares to a Bad Boy Echo or RedMax Blowers...


If the 2 Cycle is Outlawed in 2010...Then I'll Consider Switching to Stihl...Until then 2 Cycle Thank you Very Much.

Smalltimer1
02-23-2005, 01:39 AM
Who Really Cares...Right Now the Stihl 4Mix is Second Rate compared to the 2 Cycle Stuff From the Big Boys....Stihl Can't even Produce a 4Mix Blower that compares to a Bad Boy Echo or RedMax Blowers...

.....because there is a huge displacement difference between the Stihl 4-Mix's and the 2 cyclers...... :rolleyes:

Fareway Lawncare
02-23-2005, 01:58 AM
The Stihl 4Mix Blowers are Toys compared to the Big 2Cycles...At least According to the Specs...If they Can't even OutPower a Big 2Cycle Blower than Adios Amigos..

I Doubt I'll ever Live to See the Day a Stihl Blower Oupowers a Redmax or Echo Top of the Line.

The BR420's are 20 Year old Technology the BR500's are New Technology and they Stihl Fall Short.

rodten
02-23-2005, 09:43 AM
the shindawai blowers have some great power also and are very dependable :blob3:

Smalltimer1
02-23-2005, 11:25 AM
The Stihl 4Mix Blowers are Toys compared to the Big 2Cycles...At least According to the Specs...If they Can't even OutPower a Big 2Cycle Blower than Adios Amigos..

I Doubt I'll ever Live to See the Day a Stihl Blower Oupowers a Redmax or Echo Top of the Line.

The BR420's are 20 Year old Technology the BR500's are New Technology and they Stihl Fall Short.

I heard the 800 series Stihls were going to be released later on this year as well. They are supposed to be the Red Max killers from what I've read.

Legacy
02-27-2005, 11:44 PM
.....because there is a huge displacement difference between the Stihl 4-Mix's and the 2 cyclers...... :rolleyes:


Again more BS!!

The new Stihl 550 is 64.4 cc and the big bad Echo PB-651 is 63.3 cc and....

yes the PB-651 puts out approx 100 more CFM!!

Do you think before you reply?? Again you look ridiculous!!

You now have absolutely no credibility!!

Smalltimer1
02-27-2005, 11:46 PM
Again more BS!!

The new Stihl 550 is 64.4 cc and the big bad Echo PB-651 is 63.3 cc and....

yes the PB-651 puts out approx 100 more CFM!!

Do you think before you reply?? Again you look ridiculous!!

You now have absolutely no credibility!!

What a punk, you have NO engineering credibility. The regulations take effect Jan 1, 2010, the details are yet to be released, that's the best I could come up with as of right now.

Legacy
02-27-2005, 11:50 PM
What a punk, you have NO engineering credibility. The regulations take effect Jan 1, 2010, the details are yet to be released, that's the best I could come up with as of right now.

You are 100 percent right on one thing..I have no engineering credibility...

BUT..you have NO credibility at all....

THERE ARE NO PENDING 2010 EPA REGS!!!!

I feel bad for you....I really do!!

Smalltimer1
02-27-2005, 11:55 PM
You are 100 percent right on one thing..I have no engineering credibility...

BUT..you have NO credibility at all....

THERE ARE PENDING 2010 EPA REGS!!!!

I feel bad for you....I really do!!

I feel bad for you too, because you have LESS than NO credibility--in the negatives! I mean I give the best info I can find for now and you still are so blind you say its not true?

You should be in the anger management classes, you really need help.

I'm blocking you, because all we ever do is argue, so I'm going to take the high road and block you instead of letting this go on and on, and if you're mature you will do the same.

Legacy
02-27-2005, 11:59 PM
I feel bad for you too, because you have LESS than NO credibility--in the negatives! I mean I give the best info I can find for now and you still are so blind you say its not true?

You should be in the anger management classes, you really need help.


You provided NO information at all..just your own BS!!

BTW...I mis-spoke before...

THERE ARE NO PENDING 2010 EPA REGS FOR HAND HELD EQUIPMENT..PERIOD!

I'm done with this....It's just a battle of wits with an unarmed man....

Smalltimer1
02-28-2005, 12:02 AM
You provided NO information at all..just your own BS!!

BTW...I mis-spoke before...

THERE ARE NO PENDING 2010 EPA REGS FOR HAND HELD EQUIPMENT..PERIOD!

I'm done with this....It's just a battle of wits with an unarmed man....


It's a battle of wits with one side having none--that's it for this, I'm done arguing with an embessul.

Legacy
02-28-2005, 12:07 AM
It's a battle of wits with one side having none--that's it for this, I'm done arguing with an embessul.

Sad...just sad.....Nice spelling by the way...

hoocked on fonics shure wurkd for yu!!

PMLAWN
02-28-2005, 03:20 AM
I have no idea where the EPA is going but I look at the outboard motor (boating) market and it looks like 4 cycle has become strong.
Another side to the question is sound. A lot of places are talking about outlawing handheld stuff because of noise. This is an area that the 4 cycle seems to be better.

JKOOPERS
02-28-2005, 03:46 AM
i went to my dealer the other day and i asked him about this bs on the 2010 regulations. he told me there is NO regulations set yet past 2006 period. Stihl thinks they are gonna get a jump on everyone else. the f$cked up part is that this 4 mix is suppose to be so damn great but you are gonna have to get the valves adjusted , something i am sure your dealer forgot to tell ya about. . he also said redmax and echo after running for 300 hundred hours give off the same emissions stihl does in 50 hours. thats the reason stihl went to 4 mix, they dont have the technology to have the 2 cycles burn cleaner. by the way my dealer seals stihl, redmax , echo.

battags
02-28-2005, 07:18 AM
Sad...just sad.....Nice spelling by the way...

hoocked on fonics shure wurkd for yu!!

Hey, I thought you were done? What happened to "I'm done with this...."?

Suggestion: Change your screen name and re-join LS with a little respect and maturity. "Legacy" no longer reflects those values, unless that's what you intended for you legacy.

Brian

lawncare4u
02-28-2005, 07:30 AM
Red Max-7001

Legacy
02-28-2005, 08:11 AM
Hey, I thought you were done? What happened to "I'm done with this...."?

Suggestion: Change your screen name and re-join LS with a little respect and maturity. "Legacy" no longer reflects those values, unless that's what you intended for you legac


Brian

Suggestion: Mind your own business. This was between me and Smalltimer who was spewing false and misleading BS....Had to call his bluff...

ECHOFACE6786
02-28-2005, 11:59 AM
REDMAX REDMAX REDMAX. EPA law doesnt go ineffect until im arrested or fined for using the equipment. chances are wont happen. Oh by the way YOU SHOULD HAVE NEWER EQUIPMENT BY 2010!

scarr133
02-28-2005, 09:12 PM
The new Stihl backpack blower is awesome. A lot of power and quieter than the older ones. I demoed one the other night at a dealer open house and they had a stihl rep there with some of their new equipment.

battags
03-01-2005, 12:29 AM
Suggestion: Mind your own business. This was between me and Smalltimer who was spewing false and misleading BS....Had to call his bluff...

Well, consider the fact that Small Timer has been a little more polite and professional than you have. You still haven't figured out that it's not about whose right and whose wrong. I don't know who to believe, and don't really care now. Bottom line, you need to learn what LS is all about. Bashing doesn't go down well here. Constructive criticism and healthy debate do.

Before you make all kinds of enemies, grow up a little. If you don't, plenty of others on here will put you in your place pretty fast.

Brian

Legacy
03-01-2005, 12:34 AM
Well, consider the fact that Small Timer has been a little more polite and professional than you have. You still haven't figured out that it's not about whose right and whose wrong. I don't know who to believe, and don't really care now. Bottom line, you need to learn what LS is all about. Bashing doesn't go down well here. Constructive criticism and healthy debate do.

Before you make all kinds of enemies, grow up a little. If you don't, plenty of others on here will put you in your place pretty fast.

Brian

Excuse me?? SmallTimer more polite?? What the heck have you been reading??

packerbacker
03-01-2005, 12:37 AM
You clowns sound like me and gedd :p

battags
03-01-2005, 12:39 AM
You clowns sound like me and gedd :p


No way! Not nearly as bad as that!!! :D

packerbacker
03-01-2005, 12:41 AM
No way! Not nearly as bad as that!!! :D





Well I do try my hardest!