rubber checks

[two-niner]

I am a crew leader for a lawncare/landscaping company and I am a salary employee. Lately several co-workers and myself have had paychecks bounce( anywhere from 3 to 5 paychecks per employee). We do plenty of work(mowing, clean-ups, irrigation, snow removal, fertilizing, tree work, retaining walls), or at least I think we do, but for some reason they are having a hard time paying employees. Have any of you ever heard of such a thing in the lawncare/landscaping business? Also, is this a tell-tale sign of things to come- in other words,is the ship going down and should we look for a different job? Any input would be greatly appreciated.

[AB Lawn Care]

Well t me it sounds like 1 of 2 things.

1.They are in bad shape money wise.

or

2.They are not wise when it comes to money.

Often some companys make good money but their bookkeeping skills in improvement.I'm not shure what to say.Maby you and your co-workers need to talk to the company and tell them your concern.Hope this helps!

[HOMER]

If they have been good to you in the past and you consider yourself a loyal employee then I would try and work with them----------as much as you can. I never had a payroll check to bounce when I worked for someone else so I can't say I've been in your shoes. I will say since I went in business I find it hard to meet my own bill sometimes, and there's a 100 reasons why. Maybe they can't get folks to pay them. If I knew I didn't have the money I sure wouldn't write you a bad check. That shows some irresponsibility on their part, they need to be open with you about their problems so ya'll can make a decision. Maybe it will correct it self and things will work out. If not I would start looking soon. You have your own bills to pay and regardless of the employers situation your creditors want their money too. They will have to understand your situation if and when the time comes.

[awm]

I would offer to help them if you can.I would
also encourage them to not let any more checks
bounce.

[MJ]

You should also be concerned that the company is sending into Social Security, IRS etc. The last thing that should be a problem is - Payroll - generally followed by Bankruptcy. Note large manufacturing etc going out of business in the last few years.

Mick

[Mueller Landscape Inc]

I would look for a better job.

[rdh]

if they take child suport out on any of you .
you might have your piture up as a dead beat can happen

[bob]

I'd concider that a red flag. Talk to your boss and ask whats going on. If you decide to look for another job, don't tell him. If you do leave , give him the curtisy of 2 weeks notice. Don't burn your bridges.

[thelawnguy]

Unless its a clerical error, I consider bounced checks stealing. Does the boss make good when he is made aware of the problem? Does he reimburse you for the bank fees involved?

Bail, my friend. The ship is sinking and they dont make big statues for heroes anymore.

10 to 1 the owner isnt paying your witholdings or social security. The husband of a co-worker of my wifes was stricken with cancer and found out too late that his employer hadnt been paying into SS (even tho it was deducted from his pay) so he was SOL when he tried to collect disability.

[R&GSweeping]

Listen: I've been on both ends.... Go with your gut instinct. Sometimes things happen as a business owner. You write payroll checks to find out equipment "x" isn't working anymore and if it doesn't work then nobody will be paid. I've been there. I've been in a situation where my employer has written my payroll check only to ask me to "hold" it for a week or two. It depends on how loyal your employer is to you and hold loyal you are to your employer.

If it happens more than "x" amount of times I would look for something or somebody else to work for. But if the business is on the up and up the owner will tell you that things aren't what they should be and a "bounced" payroll check should not be a surprise.

Bottom line is this: Your employer depends on you. You depend on your employer. Be there when you need each other....

Ron

[Randy Scott]

That's some good advice from R&G. If you've got a good relationship with your employer try to work it out, it may be beneficial to the both of you. I've had employers bounce my payroll and you feel like an idiot when you're at the bank. One guy I worked for,it was like a joke when I went to the bank. The teller would see me coming and it was a crap-shoot to whether or not it was going to clear. That went on off and on and I ended up leaving there for mostly other reasons. Two years later I went back to work for him and we discussed that when re-hiring me and he said those times were gone and I said the first check that bounces, I'm gone. Well, can you guess what happened after 4 months. I went to the bank with my check and guess what, it was no good. I went from the bank, to my buddies, got his truck and trailer and went to get my toolbox. The boss is like, what's going on? he knew, he made the check good with cash on the spot. Never talked to him since. What an a$$hole. He had a good business, just a poor money manager. Not my problem!

[Bama]

Two-niner,
I would encourage you to consider going into business for yourself. I'm sure this has probably crossed your mind. There's too much opportunity out there to work for someone else. It sounds like you should have all the working knowledge you need. GO FOR IT! Any questions that you have can certainly be answered by the dozens of experts on this forum.
BAMA

[65hoss]

Bama from Miss??? lol

I think Bama might have something. You could go into biz for yourself, but don't steal his clients. But watch him closely, see if he goes out of biz and be the first there to get your previous clients you serviced for him.

But before you do this, try to speak with the owner alone! If you show up like a lynch mob you will get nowhere with your employer. Meet with him in confidence and discuss your issues. No matter what the answers are, don't make treats. The reason is, people that run their mouths usually don't carry anything out, but the quiet ones make calculated decisions. Good mgrs know this. :) Mgmt tool that you can use verses the other way around.

[Lawngeek]

this is a pain in the butt but cash the checks dont deposit find a place thatll do it sounds like bad management however by years end cos bank account should be running thin complain about it go as a group an informal union but dont get emotional

[CCLC]

If it were one or two checks that bounced that would be one thing, but multiple times to multiple employees is a serious situation. If you and the others quit your employer will most likely fail for sure if he is on hard times. I would first approach him to see if he will give you a glimmer of what is going on. If not jump ship, but do give him the 2 weeks to be polite. If he does fill you in on what is going on (and you belive him) try to work out some arangements so that you don't get left out in the cold. Good employees are hard to find these days. If you are knowledgable, personable, and a hard worker then you won't have any problem finding a job.

Keep us posted what happens in the future.

Best of luck to your and your friends.

[two-niner]

Thanks guys for all of your input. The situation is pretty ugly. We have talked to the owners about the issue, and they just paint a pretty picture-- but it keeps happening. They pay our bank fees and all, but it's more about the hassle and the stress that it causes, not to mention the fact that the owner is sleezy enough to hand me a check that he knows is not good. If he was honest enough to ask me to hold it for a couple of days it would be different.

Bama actually read my mind. I am seriously considering going into business for myself. I am not looking for overnight success or wealth, just maybe 30 to 50 avg. size residentials that I could mow with MAYBE one other guy, along with a few hedge trimming and landscaping jobs on the side. Do you think it is too late to get enough of a customer base to make a little money on my own?

[turfman99]

Here is what is up...

If he can't make payroll, he can't pay the witholding,..
If he can't make the payroll, he can't pay the fuel bills...
If he can't make the payroll, he is not makeing the tax deposits...and you will find that out at tax time when you owe major bucks because he stole your witholding money..

Maybe you could ask your landlord to delay the rent payment and get the gas station to loan you $ 10, and maybe the supermarket will let you slide on food and diapers...

This is one of the most basic premises in business, you need to pay your employees on time. Whe I was in business, I never missed a payroll in 8 years, my boss now has never missed one in 22 years.. We went without pay somethimes, but employees always got paid...

The guy's ripping you off big time, In Oregon that's illegal and you could file on his bond so damn fast, (oh, wait, hell he hasn't paid for that either, so your SOL there too)and tie up his license, ( oh, hasn't paid that or does not have one , right??) I hope you guys don't have famlies to support and explain why you don't get paid reguarly?? Please....

[Twotoros]

It is early enough still. START your own company. Sounds like you know the ropes. This guy hasn't been paying your withholding either. START YOUR OWN COMPANY TODAY. If the owner is going under step up and grab the accounts. Rubber checks make me mad and I always go straight for the jugular.

[Barkleymut]

Guys, please don't go suggesting for others to start a business without knowing them. While business has been pretty good the past few years times will be tough if we head into a recession. Hard work and dedication will get you no where if you don't have a head for business. Another thing, why in the heck would this guy give his employer the courtesy of 2 weeks notice? His employer hasn't even paid him! I would find another employer and quick, especially since yours is obviously lying to you.

[thelawnguy]

I see a repetitive theme here- be polite, be nice, yada yada. Well screw that, his employer is sticking it to him by not paying him, which is stealing. I dont consider it polite to have a paycheck bounce, which to some folks means that their rent check, utility check, etc will also bounce, heck thers no money to cover it.

Wake up guys.