Lazer and Deere demo

[lee b]

Demoed new lazer 60"/25 kohler and deere m665 60"/25 kohler today. The grass is still dead, so I didn't have any grass to mow. These two mowers are so much alike, if they were not different colors you couldn't tell 'em apart. The only important difference is the decks. Tires are one size smaller on deere and the sticks were a little stiffer. Other than that they are twins. The chassis and controls are exactly alike. The deere ran a little smoother. The deere is $1300.00 cheaper, but the lazer has a better {been around longer} reputation. Deere dealer is local, Exmark dealer is 65 miles away. Wanted to look at a 27LC lazer, but dealer says he don't know when he'll be able to get one. I've never seen two machines from different companies so much alike. Are ya'll sure Exmark doesn't build ztr's for Deere? I thought a demo would make up my mind once and for all, now I'm leaning towards Deere when I was going for a lazer Help me out with your opinions!!!!

[Mike Felices]

Ex-mark uses a 7 gauge welded steel deck, where as Deere uses a 12 gauge stamped deck. The 7 gauge will hold up a lot better, and take more of a beating than the 12 gauge deck on the Deere. You also have to look at the blade tip speed on each machine. Ex-mark is between 18,00 nad 18,500fpm. I have no idea what Deere is, but I doubt they are that fast. From seeking the majority of the landscapers in my general area almost everyone uses either Ex-mark, Toro, Snapper, or Walker. The Deere dealers around here don't even stock the commercial riders. They only keep one arond for a demo machine. Buy what you think is the better machine. I think that you will be much happier with the Lazer. You have more engines and options for the machine.

[Edited by Mike Felices on 02-03-2001 at 10:22 PM]

[Administrator]

Why don't you ask a eXmark rep. at http://www.TurfMfg.com

As you guys can see im pushing my new site. Soon I will send out my PR to all the manufacturers and publishers.

Chuck Keough

[mdb landscaping]

all i can say, is that i have never seen anyone in my area with a deere ztr on the trailer. i think if they were as great as you say they are there would be a lot more out there. maybe you need to start the trend though.

[lee b]

Mike, the deere has the 7-iron deck which is 7-gauge also.

[Mike Felices]

My bad. I wasn't sure of that. The last time I saw a Deere rider it had a 12 gauge deck, and that was this past summer. My vote is still for the Ex-mark. My closest Ex-amrk dealer is 2 min. up the street, but I won't buy any equipment form them, because their maintenance sucks. I go to another dealer that is 45 min. away. Don't always pick the closest dealer. Pick the one that you are going to get the best service from after the sale. They might be there for you until they sell it, but after the sale is what really matters.

[lee b]

I totally agree about service. Thats another plus, however, for deere. I've been doing business with them for years { I also farm} and their service is great. I don't know about the Exmark dealer, I've never done business with them. I like the deere and the exmark. Exmark has a great reputation and Deere has great service. Both machines are really close , almost identical, but I haven't seen them mow side by side. That could be the deciding factor, but I've heard they both mow great.

[GREG R]

We have been running commercail deere products for 10 years now. I am currently running 1-36"wb, and 2-665 mid mounts,(just sold two -48s) One 665 has over 600hrs and other has about 500hrs. One has a PeCo bagger on it because deere does not make a bagger for it. The sticks will loosen up after the break-in period.
We are very happy with its performance. I would stay away from the f-620/f-680's, had one and put about 800 hrs on it before I was fed up with it (service department had it more than I did)
The reason I chose deere products is because of the service
service department (sale department really stinks). if I need a mower, break down or whatever they won't even hesitate to give me. They know I'm a commercail user and they want my future business.
I do not have any experience with Exmark so I can't comment on them, any question I can help on-just post-I'll anwser.

Go with what your gut tells you too, I'm sure either mower will serve you well.

[lee b]

Greg, how do you like the 7-iron decks? Do they cut good and how fast can you mow with the m665? Anything you don't like about them? Thanks

[Randy Scott]

I would definately try to demo both mowers. If you think the results are similar, go with the Deere. I can't believe I said that, (my Lazer is out in the garage probably thinking about comin' in here and mowing me down) If you receive good service from the Deere dealer, that will make all the difference in the world. Plus your Deere dealer is close, and time is money. What happens if you buy the eXmark and the dealer turns out to be poor with service or other problems, your Deere dealer might not want to treat you as well if you come crawling back to him now. SERVICE is everything, just a note, it's related but with snowmobiles instead. Since 1994 I've purchased a new Ski-Doo snowmobile every year, that's 7 new sleds. My girlfriend, now wife, bought 4 new ones in that time. That's 11. Between other buddies and ours we probably bought 20 or 25 new sleds in this time frame. The dealer we all bought from was 1 hour and 10 minutes from our house. The point of this story? We drove past two different Ski-Doo dealers to get to this guy. One 5 minutes from my house and the next was about 20 minutes away. It was the same conversation every year when we would go get our sleds, laughing about the poor service and the jacka$$es that owned those places. So to me, service is everything. Those dealers new what was going on too. There were plenty of opportunities over the years to get a few cheap shots in at the dealer shows and through the grapevine.

[GREG R]

no problems with deck, nice and deep, throws out grass great
I haven't seen one clog up yet (except at leaf season)
It leave a nice stripe, but I don't care for the turn marks
but that goes with any ztr. The engine and the deck will handle any speed you give it. When I demo the first one I abused the hell out of it for 16 hrs, up hills, down hill, short grass and 12" grass.(I did'nt buy the demo)
the dealer says it mows 3.5 acres a hr. I say it mows faster. We have enough hours on these machine for me to feel comfortable in staying with deeres ztr
Things that they can improve on.
gas gauge
drink holders are useless
had one gas tank go bad (factory defect)
I would like to see a down shaft engine, to get
rid of the extra pulley in the drive belt system
besides that I'm happy

[Mike Felices]

Talk to other people that have purchased mamchines from the eX-mark dealer before you buy from them. Since you have experience with the Deere dealer you know how they are. If you are planning on mulching the Lazer has the best mulching system on the market. If you are discharging they both probably do a decent job. I know that when I demoed a Lazer HP I side discharged Bermuda grass and it looked great. That is because of the cutting chambers so the grass goes through all three blades before it comes out of the mower. If the Deere has a deck like the Toro SFS design I think they are terrible. They discharge grass in pieces that were only cut once so the pieces are extremely long. You ahve ot mow the property twice just to blend in the pieces of grass.

[Edited by Mike Felices on 02-04-2001 at 09:47 AM]

[SpringValley]

My vote would be for Deere. If you already or still do farm and you have a relationship with your local JD dealer then that is the key. If they would help you out in a bind loan you a mower (if needed) then the dealer aspect would clinch the deal for me. I run an F620 and will purchase another one this year. The commerical mower industry is very similar with each manufacturer being slightly different in some way. I have read good and bad about almost every manufacturer on this site. The reputation and relationship with your dealer should allow you to make an easy decision.

Matt

[65hoss]

If you side discharge then get the dddddd, oh I can't say it, but you know what I mean. The service will be the key.

If you mulch, well, your out of luck. You must get the exmark.

[lee b]

65Hoss- you mean dddddouble blades. Whatever I get I'm definitely gonna try dddddoubles on. Not really interested in mulching though, I hope double blades will take care of clippings. Thanks

[65hoss]

Double blades will be a huge help for those clipping. Even on a dddddeeee, oh I still can't say it. lol.

[John Deere]

Greg I have a ?. It's funny last year I couldn't find a sole who was running the 665 mid Z w/ a PECO bagger. We have 3 mid z's and 2 of them have baggers. I have to say I am very disapointed with the Peco baggers. If you had luck with them and I would like to know if you did anything different to make them work better for you. I had several problems.
1. Dump bar broke on both.
2. Constant flooding problems on the 6 h.p. kohler engines.
3. terrible dust and leaf problems blowing out the back.
4. Would also go out of alignment for latching.
5. ALWAYS had problems with the throttle system. My local John Deere dealer actually had to put on an entirely new system that wasn't Peco's.
6. I had many tipping problems as well until we got a counter weight put on the front.
I would like to hear from you if you had any of these problems. You can also e-mail me if you wish at johnsonlawncare@aol.com.

To Lee Blount, Ditto on what Greg said. I did see where someone had said they haven't seen any J.D. on any trailers. The reason for that is simple. They have only been out on the market for a year. The Exmark and J.D. is very similiar and are both great mowers. I think as you can see from above if you are needing to bag I would go w/ the Exmark.

[Mark]

Sorry Mike ive cut with a Toro Z-Master,With Atomic mulch blades. I never cut a lawn twice. unless its real early in the spring when the grass grows 9" a week, Then ill make sure its cut looks even if i do cut twice. Exmark won't cut 9" wet or damp grass into invisable pieces. I have to many buddies who use Exmark there great machines, but no better than the Toro. If that JD cuts well and your dealer treats you right sounds like a good mower.

[Yardworks]

I cut all last year with a John Deere M-653 and there is a very good chance I won't be using it this next summer. I was not that impressed. I wish I could find a copy of the customer satisfaction survey they sent me. It's been so long since I've mowed that I can't remember all the things I didn't like about it. On a positive note, My John Deere dealership is amazing when it comes to service. They will bend over backwards to make you happy. So hopefully if everything goes as I'd like (it never does :)) My John Deere M-653 will be traded for a Gator and I'll look for a new mower. I'm thinking of a new scag with the 27 horse kaw. engine. If anyone has one and could tell me what the think of it I would appreciate it.

[GREG R]

REPLY TO JOHN DEERE

I FIGURE INSTEAD OF E-MAILING YOU, I WOULD JUST POST
TO LET EVERYONE ELSE GET "OUR FEELINGS" ON THE PECO BAGGER SYSTEMS.

I CAN SAY I DON'T CARE FOR THE BAGGER SYSTEM, BUT IT WAS
THE ONLY SYSTEM I COULD FIND FOR THE 665 THAT DUMP FROM
THE SEAT.

1. I TOOK THE THROTTLE SYSTEM OFF
THE CABLE WAS NOT STRONG ENOUGH AND BENT AFTER THE SECOND
TIME USING IT

2. THE DUMP HANDLE IS BENT OUTWARD BECAUSE THE LATCH
SYSTEMS IS ALWAYS JAMMING. (EMPLOYEE PUT FOOT ON SIDE OF
BOX TO PULL IT OPEN.... AHHHHH)

3.AIR FILTER IS ALWAYS CLOGGING ON THE ENGINE (6HP)
NO OTHER PROBLEMS WITH THE ENGINE

4. ALWAYS LOSING THE PINS OUT THE CONTROL ARMS.(I'LL FIND
THEM IS THE SPRING WHEN WE START MOWING)

5. THE BOOT HOOK UP FROM THE DECK IS VERY BADLY DESIGNED.
ALWAYS RATTLES AND SOMETIMES JUMPS UP AND HITS THE BLADE
WHICH GIVE YOU THAT REALLY NICE SOUND OF GRINDING METAL


IT PICKS GRASS UP GREAT BUT FOR LEAVE SOMETIMES WE HAVE
TO LOWER THE DECK TO GET IT TO PICK SMALLER PIECES UP

WE TAKE THE BAGGER OFF IN THE SUMMER, WE ONLY RUN IT IN THE
SPRING AND THE FALL..LESS THE BETTER

HAVE YOU HAD ANY LUCK ON GETTING ANY OF THESE PROBLEMS
FIXED... SO FAR I HAVE HAVE JUSTED BLAMED IT ON
UNRESPONIBLE EMPLOYEES..I GUESS THAT IS NOT TRUE ANYMORE
SORRY ABOUT THE LENGHT

[Sammy]

Greg, Your caps are locked.

[Mike Felices]

Mark, Currently I am mowing with a 36" Toro WB with teh SFS deck. I run gator blades and that still doesn't give the cut that I want. Since you are not able to purchase a mulch kit for the 36" mowers you can only side discharge. I don't see why Toro doesn't kill the 37" mulching machine, and make a mulch kit for the 36". They are trying to suck all of your money by making you purchase 2 machines to do what 1 eX-mark machien can do with a mulch kit added.

[morturf]

Trade in your Toro for the Exmark. Toro wins both ways, they own Exmark. Just ribbing you guys.

[Randy Scott]

You know, are we overlooking something here. Didn't some of you guys say the 25 kohler isn't a very good motor or am I thinking of a different motor? Maybe lee needs to think about that also if they have troubles or not.

[Stonewall]

I had the Peco bagger on a Turf Tiger. The 5 hp Briggs IC engine was short-blocked within 90 days. Put a new Kohler 6 hp the following season. It's impossible to keep the air filter clean. I made a shield to cover the air filter intake and muffler after clippings from the hopper caught the thing on fire. Plenty of carb work, etc. done on it. It's simply a bad application for that engine. Split the cast aluminum disharge adapter in two more than once. It didn't take too kindly to roots, curbs, etc. Then I got a plastic chute ($100+). Didn't last any time. It did know how to vacuum though. Got tire of buying air filters, burning mufflers, quirky oil pressure sensors that would cut the engine out in turns, and bad carbs. So this year I bought one of these http://www.turfspecialty.com/page6.html Actually, I only bought the blower assembly (@$750)and used the Peco hopper. Works like champ.