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View Full Version : You Might Be a Professional LCO or a Scrub If?


MMLawn
03-12-2005, 09:20 PM
I think you'll know which is which.


Do you use in your everyday cutting any mower that was purchased at Home Cheapo, Lowes, Wal-Mart, KMart, Target, Sears or any other department store?

Did your Trimmer (weedwacker for some) come from one of the above?

Did your blower (if you have one) come from one of the above?

Do you use any piece of equipment named Murray?

Do you call any equipment purchased at the above "commercial" or "professional"?

Do you transport (haul for some) these items in the bed of your S10/Ranger truck, the rear of your Jeep with the seat folded down, the hatchback of your car or Ford Explorer, or heavens forbid the trunk?

Do you blow grass clipping and debis in the roadway?

Do your customers pay weekly by leaving cash under the door mat?

Do you pay Taxes on yourself, business, any employees?

Do you 1099 all of your employees?

Do you have Commercial Libility and Auto Insurance?

Are you licensed?

Do you wear cut off jeans, pants or shirts to cut in?

Do you stick flyers in or on Mailboxes?

Do you cut a lawn for say $15 and figure that you made $14 in profit?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Do you own true Commercial Mowers, trimmers and blowers that came from a Commercial equipment dealer?

Are you licensed?

Do you pay all taxes, have Commercial Insurance and do not 1099 your employees?

Do you mail or place your flyers in the proper legal place such as on the door?

Do you swear that you don't do any of the other things above?

Carolina Cutter
03-12-2005, 09:26 PM
Yes I HAVE A MOWER MADE BY MURRAY...and it has served me very well for the crappy island work I do for my commercials for 3 years.


Why in the heck do we keep going here???

Appalachian landscape
03-12-2005, 09:32 PM
i bought my honda mower at home depot. it's really nice too.

nitro121
03-12-2005, 09:40 PM
....you post or reply to posts telling everyone how you are not a scrub.

Man, I don't even post here anymore....when I have a question....I just use the search feature and then I'm gone. Everyone is riding BMW mowers and cutting yards made of gold....and if you're not, then you're below them.


Peace,
Nitro

j fisher
03-12-2005, 09:59 PM
From all the "Are You a Scrub" posts I've seen on here and the "other site", I'd say that the majority of the people on these forms probably fall into the scrub catergory in one way or another. Yes, I buy my Echo 230 trimmers from Home Cheapo, and they serve my purpose. Guess I'm a scrub.

captken
03-12-2005, 10:26 PM
....you post or reply to posts telling everyone how you are not a scrub.

Man, I don't even post here anymore....when I have a question....I just use the search feature and then I'm gone. Everyone is riding BMW mowers and cutting yards made of gold....and if you're not, then you're below them.


Peace,
Nitro

However, if you are one that wants Something For Nothing, then do not waste our time. By that, I mean please contribute to the archive when you can. It is a relief to many that you snatch [info] and run at your present station in life. When you can, contribute.
kenny

lawnman_scott
03-12-2005, 10:48 PM
Some yes and no. I dont buy equipment from sears so i awnser no. I am lisenced so I awnser yes. To make sence the questions should be all yes for a pro, and all no for someone who makes you cry like a little girl when your bored all winter (scrub).

AL Inc
03-12-2005, 10:55 PM
These scrub threads are a joke. You know what? Yes, I do have some equipment from Home Depot. I do have some cheap MTD and Craftsman 21" mowers. I have blown grass into the street and I have worn cut off jeans (when i was younger). I also put flyers in mailboxes by the thousands until the Postmaster called me to tell me to stop. I have also been threatened by another landscaper because I underbid his price (I didn't know better).
I've made every mistake in the book, so go ahead and call me a scrub. The difference is that unlike the majority of businesses that started with me 10 years ago, is that I'm still standing, and thriving.

DennisF
03-12-2005, 11:02 PM
A professional is someone who utilizes his valuable time to do things that are more constructive than trying to define the term "Scrub".

Watkinslawnservice
03-12-2005, 11:04 PM
What makes you a pro is knowing what you are doing and having the equipment that can do what you need it to do. If you can buy an echo trimmer at Home Depot that does what you need it to do, whats the difference?
Everyone gets toooooo hung up on equipment. Having all the most expensive equip. in the world does you no good if you dont know how to use it correctly.

Dave

Petr51488
03-12-2005, 11:05 PM
Aren't you people tired of bringin up these stupid Scrub Threads? I mean, the same thing over and over. Do a search on the word Scrub and read about it. Whats the point in making new threads about this same old topic?

HOOLIE
03-12-2005, 11:07 PM
I'll never be able to run for President, because when my opponent goes looking to find dirt on me, he'll discover I once owned an electric hedge trimmer. That's my skeleton in the closet... :D

Eddie B
03-12-2005, 11:11 PM
I'll never be able to run for President, because when my opponent goes looking to find dirt on me, he'll discover I once owned an electric hedge trimmer. That's my skeleton in the closet... :D


Not only did I run an electric hedge trimmer, I ran it off of a power inverter on the cigarette lighter plug in my truck. LOL

lawnman_scott
03-12-2005, 11:21 PM
Aren't you people tired of bringin up these stupid Scrub Threads? I mean, the same thing over and over. Do a search on the word Scrub and read about it. Whats the point in making new threads about this same old topic?
Next will be "here come the new guys", then usual stuff through summer, then anything and everything you didnt want to know about a leaf, how to pick them up, what to do with them once you do, .............

Petr51488
03-12-2005, 11:27 PM
Next will be "here come the new guys", then usual stuff through summer, then anything and everything you didnt want to know about a leaf, how to pick them up, what to do with them once you do, .............


That wasn't what i ment. Whenever someone bring up the subj: scrub, theres allways the same thing said..

Eho
03-13-2005, 12:09 AM
Does it really make you a scrub to use a smaller truck to carry your equipment? I dont have a trailor but I fit all of my equipment( commercial grade) in my truck and it works fine for me. I say as long as it works for you and makes you money, who cares. Having a great relationship with the customers, good personality, and doing a GREAT job will get you a lot further than anything.
EHO

coonman
03-13-2005, 12:15 AM
Does it really make you a scrub to use a smaller truck to carry your equipment? I dont have a trailor but I fit all of my equipment( commercial grade) in my truck and it works fine for me. I say as long as it works for you and makes you money, who cares. Having a great relationship with the customers, good personality, and doing a GREAT job will get you a lot further than anything.
EHO
That may be the best response to this tired old scrub thread that I have ever read. From now on whenever someone starts a scrub thread, this should be the one and only response.

lawnman_scott
03-13-2005, 12:35 AM
That wasn't what i ment. Whenever someone bring up the subj: scrub, theres allways the same thing said..yeah, thats what i meant. I was just saying its a cycle.

rockandroller
03-13-2005, 03:11 AM
However posted this is a loser. Ya know what thety say about guys outting down everyone else. Something like they gotta small tractor???

HOMER
03-13-2005, 05:33 AM
Yep.........bought a 2 cycle Lawnboy from Lowes 4 years agao. Still runs great and makes my life easy! One of the better purchases I've made in the 21" market by the way!

Oh my gosh.............imadamscrub.................and it's about time to tell anybody that thinks theirshitdontstink to get off the scrub topics and JUST DO WHAT YOU DO AND WORRY ABOUT YOUR SELF. Nobody but you can bring you down! I could care less if Joe Scrub ever payed a damn dime in taxes.........it's his problem to deal with..................get a life and worry about your self and your family.

www.moveon.homer!!!!

Creative Lawn Care
03-13-2005, 07:08 AM
-Well I have a murray 21" that I use as a back up, going on 5 years now......
-Started out with a ford ranger and two 21's in the back......7 years ago but still
-I have 2 oh my accounts, both elderly ladies that pay in cash weekly. They simply will not go to monthly billing. That was thier generation, dont want to owe anybody anything.....
-I put out 500 flyers on newspaper boxes and doorknobs every march.....

-SO I now realize I am a scrub!!

_ Somhow though I am able to run my business solo, support my wife, who is a stay at home mom and my 3 children, older two are in private school..... Now that MMLawn has shown me the error of my ways I am truly suprised that I can even survive.........Lets start a new forum for scrubs. I will be the first to sign up and I believe most of lawnsite will be right with me

aries
03-13-2005, 07:56 AM
We all needed to start some ware and I'm sure that not all of us when just starting out could afford to buy the top of the line equipment! and for those who could god bless you, I know when I started out over 10 years ago I did what ever I could to stay alive and if that meant to buy something at homcheapo! then so be it. The important thing is that once we all are in business for 2 or more years you have alittle more gink payup to buy the name brands we all love, and those who continue to work the way I stated in the beginning then that to me would be considered a scrub! just my opinion.

Flex-Deck
03-13-2005, 08:18 AM
What makes you a pro is knowing what you are doing and having the equipment that can do what you need it to do. If you can buy an echo trimmer at Home Depot that does what you need it to do, whats the difference?
Everyone gets toooooo hung up on equipment. Having all the most expensive equip. in the world does you no good if you dont know how to use it correctly.

Dave

Amen - Give me that cheapo mower with a level deck and sharp blades, and my yard will look good.

Give me a $10,000 "commercial" mower with an unlevel deck and dull blades, and my yard will look like crap.

These scrub threads just slay me as to thier shallow attempts to justify the fact that some people on this site are having a problem landing jobs and keeping busy because they evidently are not efficient enough to make money at the prices the public is willing to bear.

theweedman
03-13-2005, 09:06 AM
who cares! i like being in this line of work, but some people act like it is freakin' brain surgery.

I think you'll know which is which.


Do you use in your everyday cutting any mower that was purchased at Home Cheapo, Lowes, Wal-Mart, KMart, Target, Sears or any other department store?

Did your Trimmer (weedwacker for some) come from one of the above?

Did your blower (if you have one) come from one of the above?

Do you use any piece of equipment named Murray?

Do you call any equipment purchased at the above "commercial" or "professional"?

Do you transport (haul for some) these items in the bed of your S10/Ranger truck, the rear of your Jeep with the seat folded down, the hatchback of your car or Ford Explorer, or heavens forbid the trunk?

Do you blow grass clipping and debis in the roadway?

Do your customers pay weekly by leaving cash under the door mat?

Do you pay Taxes on yourself, business, any employees?

Do you 1099 all of your employees?

Do you have Commercial Libility and Auto Insurance?

Are you licensed?

Do you wear cut off jeans, pants or shirts to cut in?

Do you stick flyers in or on Mailboxes?

Do you cut a lawn for say $15
and figure that you made $14 in profit?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Do you own true Commercial Mowers, trimmers and blowers that came from a Commercial equipment dealer?

Are you licensed?

Do you pay all taxes, have Commercial Insurance and do not 1099 your employees?

Do you mail or place your flyers in the proper legal place such as on the door?

Do you swear that you don't do any of the other things above?

freddyc
03-13-2005, 09:07 AM
Amen - Give me that cheapo mower with a level deck and sharp blades, and my yard will look good.

Give me a $10,000 "commercial" mower with an unlevel deck and dull blades, and my yard will look like crap.

These scrub threads just slay me as to thier shallow attempts to justify the fact that some people on this site are having a problem landing jobs and keeping busy because they evidently are not efficient enough to make money at the prices the public is willing to bear.







This is one of the few logical replies that I've seen on this issue. Every day theres some phoney professional whining about losing a job----guess what...maybe your business would be better with a cheap Murray mower and someone with a decent attitude pushing it. Just my $0.02! :D

Cut
03-13-2005, 09:17 AM
Not only did I run an electric hedge trimmer, I ran it off of a power inverter on the cigarette lighter plug in my truck. LOL

LOL!! Thats a hell-of-a-lot better than running a cord throught the customers master bedroom window!

Mo Green
03-13-2005, 09:25 AM
The only reason people start threads like this is because they want to make themselves feel superior to everyone else. I'ts psychology 101. It's really very tiring to see these same people always trying to put themselves above everyone else. There is a definate link to these peoples confidence and professional image that shows through in these types of discussions. Most of the time they lack both.

David Grass
03-13-2005, 09:45 AM
in 1988 I started with a Dodge polara with trailer hitch and a 5 by 8 trailer with 2 21 inch toros, a borrowed snapper rider (32 inch), and a stihl weed eater, and a handheld blower. Made 125 a day, and wow, was that a lot then! We did properties in Biltmore Forest (one of the most expensive places to own property in in USA), and 4 medical complexes, but they looked GREAT! We just did what we had to do with what we had, and I could engage in conversation with all customers, because I have had 7 years of college and am educated beyond my intelligence (lol), so, got my first ever loan on Toro 52 walk behind, (only the second one ever sold in this county at the time), and wham bam, next year, add a toyota truck, then a 44 walk behind which loaded in the back of the Toyota via an exta little ramp up from the trailer!!! It was a hot setup, I would pass "rednecks" in giant ford pickups with 4 or 5 21 inch mowers, and assorted eaters, blowers, Mcdonalds wrapper trash, garbage cans, etc. in their "rig", and their mouths would drop. I loved it, but also I kicked Ass with just what I needed. So, scrub a dub dub, gotta luv luv luv!

nobagger
03-13-2005, 10:10 AM
WOW! if we all could have that almighty dollar tree that he must have in his back yard. I have a couple of things from Lowes and Home depot. Bought a Husquvarna 21" finish mower and it seems to be the same damn model that a dealer sells around here except its stickered "Commercial" its got the same engine, same bagger, same blades, hell I don't even think the fuel tank is any bigger. So I save my company about $300.00. And as far as trimmers we use to have Troy builts, infact we are using them again this year, not a thing wrong with them after daily use for 2 years. You would probably be surprised how many of these parts are actually made by the same company.

Mark McC
03-13-2005, 10:40 AM
...you post these idiotic threads about scrubs.

Mo Green
03-13-2005, 10:51 AM
The last time I was in Lowes, I noticed that they carry the same Husqvarna string trimmers that you will find at a commercial dealer.

dforbes
03-13-2005, 11:14 AM
The first push mower I bought when I started in business I paid almost $600.00 for. Using it on the rough areas we use it on it did not last any longer than the cheap mowers at home depot or lowes. The last mower I bought (Murray) at an auction for $50.00. This will be the second full season of running it and it runs great. Most of the equipment I have ran in the 10 years I have been in business has been commercial grade equipment, not because I think there is anything wrong with running home depot equipment, but I was able to afford the better equipment so I bought it.
If you are licensed, insured, clean, and professional, if you treat your customers with respect and do what you tell them you will do, when you tell them you will do it, it doesn't matter what kind of equipment you run. As long as you project a positive image for you company, and can make a good living, to me you are not a scrub.

Mo Green
03-13-2005, 11:20 AM
If you are licensed, insured, clean, and professional, if you treat your customers with respect and do what you tell them you will do, when you tell them you will do it, it doesn't matter what kind of equipment you run. As long as you project a positive image for you company, and can make a good living, to me you are not a scrub.
I think that says it all.....

SkookumToo
03-13-2005, 11:21 AM
What is it about this business that causes this SCRUB issue! I have not been active on this site in 3 years, so long in fact I lost my screenname, But this issue still goes on. I think it is always started the same way though, mine is bigger than yours syndrome.

I know of 3 LCO's here that started out the gate like 20 year established companies, Best trucks, trailers, equipment, advertisement, professional looking large crews, etc.... All 3 were not around 2 years later! To me they were the scrubs by taking away income, for a couple years, from those of us that are still in business and will be for years to come.

The only part of the professional definition that applys is that you are PAID. In any business or industry if you are paid, you are a professional by definition! The best athlete in the world is not a professional until the day he is paid a dollar. The other things like appearance, equipment, and ethics just add to the whole professional image. Those aspects are more of a business strategy to help become successful, build and survive in your industry. Many companies use that as a marketing tool to sell themselves as professional.

Others use it to convince themselves and others that they will be successful or that they deserve to be successful.

Fareway Lawncare
03-13-2005, 11:48 AM
This is a copy of the Official Test currently under discussion as mandatory for entrance to the Green Industry Mowing and Maintenance Guild or GIMMG.


Answering “Yes” to the following adds 1 point to your total.

Equipment: Section A:

I own or operate

1) Handheld Blower
2) Curved Shaft Trimmer
3) Any non-commercial handhelds
4) Any electric powered handhelds or mower
5) Walkbehind Vacs on turf (Billy Goat and their ilk)
6) Non commercial 21” (Toro Recycler, Honda Harmony, Lawnboy Gold and their ilk)
7) Troy-Bilt 33”
8) Homeowner rated Zero-Turn
9) Lawn Tractor
10) Handheld leaf vacs (Echo shred’n’Vac & its ilk)
11) Attachment series stick tools (Stihl Combi System and its ilk)
12) Power Edger’s (unless this is strict necessity in your market)

Equipment : Section B:

13) My Dealer is Home Depot/Lowes/Costco/Wal-Mart
14) I have made a significant equipment purchase at any of the above outlets.
15) I have no back-up units
16) I have rented a hedge trimmer or chain saw
17) I work out of a truck bed or the back of a mini-van
18) I haul a trailer with a mini-van or car
19) My trailer is made of wood
20) My trailer has no drop gate
21) The lighting system on my trailer does not function
22) My trailer is not plated

“Yes” adds a point to your total.

Total
5-9 Riff Raff
10-22 Scrub

If your Total remains less than 5 you may continue, otherwise your classification stands and you may not proceed.

Work Procedures Section:

1) I enjoy chatting with elderly customers and doing them small chores.
2) I will do almost anything a customer asks even if it's not green industry related.
3) My garage is my shop
4) I do not carry pre-wound bump heads
5) I do not carry extra gas or gas/mix
6) I or my employee (s) wear wife beaters and or cut-offs while working
7) I or my employee(s) smoke on the jobsite
8) I or my employee(s) relieve themselves on the jobsite
9) I or my employee(s) eat lunch sitting on a customer’s front lawn
10) My wife/girlfriend is my secretary or works with me in the field
11) My friends or relatives help out when things get busy
12) I am part time (Add 2 Points)
13) I sharpen blades a few times a season

“Yes” adds a point to your total.

Total
6-9 Riff Raff
10-15 Scrub

If your Total remains less than 6 you may continue, otherwise your classification stands and you may not proceed.

Business Procedures Section:

1) I wait to get paid after each service visit.
2) My business cards consist of my number hand written on a piece of scrap paper.
3) I have collected money from under a door mat
4) Billing is sent out in no specific time frame
5) Billing is hand written
6) I do not carry liability, equipment, and commercial vehicle insurance
7) I pay my employee(s) cash
8) My personal bank account and or phone # is same as business'
9) I declare less than 70% of earnings
10) My employee (s) are illegals
11) My employee (s) are not paid and covered as per my States laws
12) I call myself a landscaper when my primary focus is maintenance

“Yes” adds a point to your total

1-4 Member of Green Industry Elite
5-8 High Class Scrub
8-12 Riff Raff

packerbacker
03-13-2005, 11:58 AM
What is it about this business that causes this SCRUB issue! I have not been active on this site in 3 years, so long in fact I lost my screenname, But this issue still goes on. I think it is always started the same way though, mine is bigger than yours syndrome.

I know of 3 LCO's here that started out the gate like 20 year established companies, Best trucks, trailers, equipment, advertisement, professional looking large crews, etc.... All 3 were not around 2 years later! To me they were the scrubs by taking away income, for a couple years, from those of us that are still in business and will be for years to come.

The only part of the professional definition that applys is that you are PAID. In any business or industry if you are paid, you are a professional by definition! The best athlete in the world is not a professional until the day he is paid a dollar. The other things like appearance, equipment, and ethics just add to the whole professional image. Those aspects are more of a business strategy to help become successful, build and survive in your industry. Many companies use that as a marketing tool to sell themselves as professional.

Others use it to convince themselves and others that they will be successful or that they deserve to be successful.








99% of the guys who start these scrub threads experienced some sort of run in with one a few days earlier usually resulting in loss of a customer. So they come here and post there own little "scrub tests" to justify why they lost an account.

Its funny because when someone asks a question about a piece of equipment or getting help on a bid most of the people immediately jump on them telling them to use the search button but when a scrub thread is posted they all rise up and contribute to it. It really shows the level of maturity some people have here.

Mo Green
03-13-2005, 11:58 AM
Are you serious??? That is hillarious. BTW, I am part time, and I still only scored a 4. :laugh:

Wow, I can't wait to tell my wife and all of my friends that I am part of the green industry elite! This is the greatest thing that has ever happened to me!

MacPhersonlawn
03-13-2005, 12:22 PM
High Class Scrub here! Got one of my Lawnboy Gold at a reptutable dealer then got another one (same model) at Home Depot for 1/3 the price, must put me even further down the "food chain" because now I have 2 of them. I love them by the way.

There is a big difference between running a lawn boy and not having liability insurance.

I don't have any problem competing with people who wear the same clothes two days in a row and work out of their 89" buick station wagon. They serve a group of customers that most of us don't want. So what!

I have peace of mind knowing that I pay my taxes. And I don't pay that much and I bet you don't either, that is why we all have a good accountants.

I have peace of mind knowing that I have insurance.

I have peace of mind knowing that my employees are properly covered (taxes, workers comp, etc.).

I also know my customers don't mind paying me $35 when they can get someone else to do it for $25.

So, who cares if you think I'm a scrub. Not me!

packerbacker
03-13-2005, 12:23 PM
High Class Scrub here! Got one of my Lawnboy Gold at a reptutable dealer then got another one (same model) at Home Depot for 1/3 the price, must put me even further down the "food chain" because now I have 2 of them. I love them by the way.

There is a big difference between running a lawn boy and not having liability insurance.

I don't have any problem competing with people who wear the same clothes two days in a row and work out of their 89" buick station wagon. They serve a group of customers that most of us don't want. So what!

I have peace of mind knowing that I pay my taxes. And I don't pay that much and I bet you don't either, that is why we all have a good accountants.

I have peace of mind knowing that I have insurance.

I have peace of mind knowing that my employees are properly covered (taxes, workers comp, etc.).

I also know my customers don't mind paying me $35 when they can get someone else to do it for $25.

So, who cares if you think I'm a scrub. Not me!







Exactly! Great post!

Wolfie's L&L
03-13-2005, 12:39 PM
The last time I was in Lowes, I noticed that they carry the same Husqvarna string trimmers that you will find at a commercial dealer.

Same goes with the Echos, Toros, John Deeres, etc. All the equipment is the same as you would find at your commercial dealer, just at a cheaper cost. Why? Because the commercial dealer can't compete with Lowes or Home Depot, so it has to raise their price on the same exact "brand name" equipment. Anyone can go to the local Echo dealer and look at a string trimmer or edger, then go to Lowes/Home Depot and say "hey, this is the same exact thing at place I was just at, and its cheaper".

Bottom Line: What does it really matter where you buy your equipment at, you just pay more at the commercial dealer for nothing at all.

And MMLawn: I'm just wondering what kind of equipment you have, where you're buying it, and what you're using to haul it all.


Jason

coonman
03-13-2005, 01:04 PM
My partner and I are in the process of getting a different truck. It will have a ladder rack, we will weld some trimmer and edger racks. Since we only use 21's and maybe the Exmark 26 we will not be using our trailer, except for big cleanups. I guess we will need to put a sign on it that says "scrub Lawncare", since you can't be a pro or do a good job without pulling a trailer. Too many people are getting caught up in image and equipment. I bet everyone knows where they can get the best burger or bbq in town, yep usually the little whole in the wall place that has no bells and whistles. It is like that in all businesses, I have a friend who is a house painter. Does all his work out of a Jeep Cherokee with one spray rig and a few brushes and rollers. He has been doing this for 25 years and has never advertised. He has a waiting list that is usually 4 months out, because he is very good. I guess he would be a scrub because he does not have a fancy paint van with logos all over it. Your work and attitude with customers will speak for itself, expensive equipment and huge rigs mean nothing to the customers.

Fareway Lawncare
03-13-2005, 01:05 PM
Same goes with the Echos, Toros, John Deeres, etc. All the equipment is the same as you would find at your commercial dealer, just at a cheaper cost. Why? Because the commercial dealer can't compete with Lowes or Home Depot, so it has to raise their price on the same exact "brand name" equipment.

Jason

You Can't Buy Any Toro Proline Products @ Home Depot...You Can't Buy Echo 750's or HCA-2400's or the Higher end SRM's @ Home Depot...You Can't Buy JD Quik Tracs @ Home Depot...The List Goes On and On and On...

Wake Up & Smell the Coffee...The Stuff @ HD is Homeowner Crap.

DLCS
03-13-2005, 01:06 PM
The last time I was in Lowes, I noticed that they carry the same Husqvarna string trimmers that you will find at a commercial dealer.


Yup, thats were I get my Husky trimmers. Also, they are the same ones that Husky was giving away at the GIE, with the truck package. But, thats the only thing I buy at Lowes. The rest of the stuff they sell is homeowner junk.

DLCS
03-13-2005, 01:09 PM
So, does having all commercial equipment automatically make you a pro? Does quality, professional work results come automatcally with owning commercial equipment? I can show you a couple of companies here that are a pro by MMlawns standards and do scrubby work.

justcutz
03-13-2005, 02:20 PM
You Can't Buy Any Toro Proline Products @ Home Depot...You Can't Buy Echo 750's or HCA-2400's or the Higher end SRM's @ Home Depot...You Can't Buy JD Quik Tracs @ Home Depot...The List Goes On and On and On...

Wake Up & Smell the Coffee...The Stuff @ HD is Homeowner Crap.

Just remember, one mans crap is another mans treasure. I don't care if a guy is out there with a ruler and a pair of scissors, If the customer is happy with the service and they get paid what they feel they are worth, who cares what everyone else thinks.

stumper1620
03-13-2005, 02:42 PM
Same goes with the Echos, Toros, John Deeres, etc. All the equipment is the same as you would find at your commercial dealer, just at a cheaper cost. Why? Because the commercial dealer can't compete with Lowes or Home Depot, so it has to raise their price on the same exact "brand name" equipment. Anyone can go to the local Echo dealer and look at a string trimmer or edger, then go to Lowes/Home Depot and say "hey, this is the same exact thing at place I was just at, and its cheaper".

Bottom Line: What does it really matter where you buy your equipment at, you just pay more at the commercial dealer for nothing at all.

And MMLawn: I'm just wondering what kind of equipment you have, where you're buying it, and what you're using to haul it all.


Jason

Got my Z-Trak at John Deere dealer, Echo blower, edger, pruner at JD dealer.
Echo trimmer & hedge trimmer at HD, 36" JD WB bought privately, 21" push
mower for areas I won't take my good stuff into- garage sale 20 bucks
I've had it for 3 1/2 years. still starts on 2 pulls :D

freddyc
03-13-2005, 02:48 PM
Just remember, one mans crap is another mans treasure. I don't care if a guy is out there with a ruler and a pair of scissors, If the customer is happy with the service and they get paid what they feel they are worth, who cares what everyone else thinks.


Hey, I don't really need the ruler....it's a perk! LOL :cool2: :p

impactlandscaping
03-13-2005, 03:09 PM
The last time I was in Lowes, I noticed that they carry the same Husqvarna string trimmers that you will find at a commercial dealer.
One of our local dealers quit carrying the Husky line shortly after Lowe's started selling them. They were selling retail for what the dealer was roughly paying dealer prices on. And to top it off, they sent everyone from Lowe's to the local dealer with all their problems and warranty service. They quit servicing everything immediately, and dropped Husky as a product line and service representative altogether..

grassyfras
03-13-2005, 03:11 PM
"Do a search on this subject its been discussed many times"


Way to bring down the site.

freddyc
03-13-2005, 03:30 PM
One of our local dealers quit carrying the Husky line shortly after Lowe's started selling them. They were selling retail for what the dealer was roughly paying dealer prices on. And to top it off, they sent everyone from Lowe's to the local dealer with all their problems and warranty service. They quit servicing everything immediately, and dropped Husky as a product line and service representative altogether..


Actually, I just heard the exact same thing from a dealer in town.

When Lowes and homecreepo sell all the brands and the dealers don't want the repair/warranty work, where will you need to send the units to??????

impactlandscaping
03-13-2005, 03:35 PM
...exactly..so saving that 20-40$$ at the big box doesn't seem so enticing now, huh? Even if someone saved $100.00 off at lowe's, if no one is going to service it, it's pretty worthless now, huh?? Support your dealers,people...they will be there when you need them(at least ours are :D )

nobagger
03-13-2005, 03:59 PM
Actually, I just heard the exact same thing from a dealer in town.

When Lowes and homecreepo sell all the brands and the dealers don't want the repair/warranty work, where will you need to send the units to??????


Went and bought a trimmer at Lowes (a TroyBuilt) because the "commercial" dealer was closed. After about 3 months of hard daily use it would not come off of fast idle, so we used it for the day and took it back when we were done for the day and guess what?- found my reciept and got a brand new one, didn't have any down time, I was out only the time and little bit of gas to go back to Lowes. Now this year bought a Echo hedge trimmer HC-150 from a local commercial dealer and I can't keep it running, He's had it several times for days at a time and still doesn't run right. So where am I saving? :dizzy:

Mo Green
03-13-2005, 04:21 PM
In my previous post about buying the Husqvarna at Lowes, I was not condoning the buying of power equipment from Lowes, I was merely stating that it was indeed the same trimmer. I personnaly would rather pay the extra $30 at a local dealer, where I know it can be serviced quickly if needed. If you buy one from Lowes and it breaks down, they send it out somewhere to be serviced, and it can take a week or more to be repaired.

freddyc
03-13-2005, 04:29 PM
Went and bought a trimmer at Lowes (a TroyBuilt) because the "commercial" dealer was closed. After about 3 months of hard daily use it would not come off of fast idle, so we used it for the day and took it back when we were done for the day and guess what?- found my reciept and got a brand new one, didn't have any down time, I was out only the time and little bit of gas to go back to Lowes. Now this year bought a Echo hedge trimmer HC-150 from a local commercial dealer and I can't keep it running, He's had it several times for days at a time and still doesn't run right. So where am I saving? :dizzy:




Sounds like you got a good deal!! I wonder if thats an exception or the rule??

I have to believe if the big stores are selling more equipment (and they are) then they must have thought the service issue out.

I hope everyone gets the same deal as you. Did they know you were a commercial or even ask?? I guess the next question would be what about non-warranty repair????

Personally, I never bought anything at Lowes (except 2x4's). Its interesting to see how they handle this. I can't imagine many people needing repairs and sending away for 2-3 weeks to get it fixed. Then again, sounds like your dealer gave the same performance! :cry:

Mo Green
03-13-2005, 04:44 PM
Sears, Lowes, Home Depot....etc. None of them have an in house service department. If you can't fix it yourself, and you take it back to them, they will send it out to a local repair shop. Then you are at their mercy.

GrassBustersLawn
03-13-2005, 04:54 PM
"Do you cut a lawn for say $15 and figure that you made $14 in profit?"

ROFLMAO





Mike

sethsodsquad
03-13-2005, 05:10 PM
If you start a thread that details how not to be a scrub - you are obviously trying to convince yourself that you aren't a scrub.

Have fun judging others - there will always be someone who is better than you and always someone that is worse than you. By being nice to lco's or "scrubs" lower than you - you become one of the better lco's.

When one of those lower lco's or "scrubs" that you treated nicely (or badly) becomes a great LCO and becomes your best competition, you'll realize what I'm saying.

Seth

TMlawncare
03-13-2005, 05:11 PM
who cares! i like being in this line of work, but some people act like it is freakin' brain surgery.


It is about as complicated as brain surgery. The difference is there is an exact way to extract a tumer but a million ways to run a business. The difference is that none of the brain surgeons run their own business.
If you think that running a successful business that can support you, your family and your employees is easy, then you better check the statistics. Around 1 out of 10 will make it. Now think, how easy is this. If you are just playing on the side, thats one thing. If you are truly running a business its there is a whole side of the business your not even seeing.

TMlawncare
03-13-2005, 05:19 PM
[QUOTE=CTHLandscaping]Same goes with the Echos, Toros, John Deeres, etc. All the equipment is the same as you would find at your commercial dealer, just at a cheaper cost. Why? Because the commercial dealer can't compete with Lowes or Home Depot, so it has to raise their price on the same exact "brand name" equipment. Anyone can go to the local Echo dealer and look at a string trimmer or edger, then go to Lowes/Home Depot and say "hey, this is the same exact thing at place I was just at, and its cheaper".

Bottom Line: What does it really matter where you buy your equipment at, you just pay more at the commercial dealer for nothing at all.



Try buying a toro proline at the box stores. It won't happen.

More importantly, try to find someone to service them when they break at the big box store.

Last, try to find someone at the big box store the understands anything regarding our business. They don't even understand their own business.

ALarsh
03-13-2005, 05:36 PM
A professional is someone who utilizes his valuable time to do things that are more constructive than trying to define the term "Scrub".

You couldn't have said it better.

Cut
03-13-2005, 05:49 PM
In my previous post about buying the Husqvarna at Lowes, I was not condoning the buying of power equipment from Lowes, I was merely stating that it was indeed the same trimmer. I personnaly would rather pay the extra $30 at a local dealer, where I know it can be serviced quickly if needed. If you buy one from Lowes and it breaks down, they send it out somewhere to be serviced, and it can take a week or more to be repaired.
One thing I noticed about lowes, they have a husqvarnas saw. I later found out that it is one of those low end husqvarnas saws that was made in the SAME FACILITY as Poulan. Do some research on these "same" products.

TMlawncare
03-13-2005, 06:14 PM
One thing I noticed about lowes, they have a husqvarnas saw. I later found out that it is one of those low end husqvarnas saws that was made in the SAME FACILITY as Poulan. Do some research on these "same" products.


Oh my, a Poulan/Husqvarna, whats the world coming to. Whats next a Jaguar/Ford, oh I guess that is reality also.

Eddie B
03-13-2005, 06:17 PM
One thing I noticed about lowes, they have a husqvarnas saw. I later found out that it is one of those low end husqvarnas saws that was made in the SAME FACILITY as Poulan. Do some research on these "same" products.


Thats like putting dodge parts in my chevy... it'll fall apart.

TLM
03-13-2005, 06:55 PM
If you use, lets say a goat, are you a scrub or just bored!!

impactlandscaping
03-13-2005, 07:07 PM
I just have one more thing to add to this thread...on the subject of big box stores and returning goods to them. If you return a dead plant or a dead trimmer, the one thing that is constant is this: Lowe's is not eating the cost..they make the vendor take all liability for the failed product. I think if more quality control went into these places, people would see the error in their ways of thinking. I have watched a cashier give someone their money back for dead boxwoods that were never removed from the container, and placed in the ground. No questions, here's your money..Now the nursery that is supplying all the Lowes' of the eastern US has to credit Lowe's back for the "dead" shrubs under their one year warranty, many times a day for similar transactions, at over 500 stores..... More comes off the top for the nursery, and our prices for wholesale have to increase to cover their losses to big boxes.It's easier for them to blindly refund money than it is to have someone employed who is qualified to assess why it needs returned in the first place. The costs are just moved around the industry and absorbed by everyone for big box nursery guarantees. There's no such thing as a free lunch....Sorry for the rant..

DLCS
03-13-2005, 07:22 PM
I just have one more thing to add to this thread...on the subject of big box stores and returning goods to them. If you return a dead plant or a dead trimmer, the one thing that is constant is this: Lowe's is not eating the cost..they make the vendor take all liability for the failed product. I think if more quality control went into these places, people would see the error in their ways of thinking. I have watched a cashier give someone their money back for dead boxwoods that were never removed from the container, and placed in the ground. No questions, here's your money..Now the nursery that is supplying all the Lowes' of the eastern US has to credit Lowe's back for the "dead" shrubs under their one year warranty, many times a day for similar transactions, at over 500 stores..... More comes off the top for the nursery, and our prices for wholesale have to increase to cover their losses to big boxes.It's easier for them to blindly refund money than it is to have someone employed who is qualified to assess why it needs returned in the first place. The costs are just moved around the industry and absorbed by everyone for big box nursery guarantees. There's no such thing as a free lunch....Sorry for the rant..



I never thought Lowes ate the cost of returned merchandise.

I used to work for Ideal Industries(most electricians would know this company). A few years ago Ideal started suppling Lowes and Home depot with electrical tools like wire strippers and so forth. Eventually Ideal would get returned products that were not damaged or they were abused by the consumer and returned. I asked in a meeting one day why we reimburse Lowes for taking back good tools or obvious abused tools. I was told basically the returned goods is peanuts compared to the amount sales generated by Home Depot and Lowes. I think Home Depot and Lowes increased Ideals business by over 70% on certain products. The bottom line is companies that do business with big box stores know that there will be a influx of returned merchandise but they are ok with that cause they will sell so much in return.

DLCS
03-13-2005, 07:30 PM
One thing I noticed about lowes, they have a husqvarnas saw. I later found out that it is one of those low end husqvarnas saws that was made in the SAME FACILITY as Poulan. Do some research on these "same" products.


Yes they do carry the low end Husky products but they alos carry the high end Husky stuff too. Eltrolux makes many different products and owns many companies, including Poulan and Husky.

impactlandscaping
03-13-2005, 07:31 PM
I think all too many times, people think "well , they're a big company(Lowe's,HD, Sears,etc.), they can afford to take this back and give me a new one ten times over..", when it's the "little" guy that is getting the screw. I guess in the grand scheme of things with green industry items, it's probably pennies on the dollar losses for the suppliers, but someone is still paying for it..

DLCS
03-13-2005, 07:37 PM
I think all too many times, people think "well , they're a big company(Lowe's,HD, Sears,etc.), they can afford to take this back and give me a new one ten times over..", when it's the "little" guy that is getting the screw. I guess in the grand scheme of things with green industry items, it's probably pennies on the dollar losses for the suppliers, but someone is still paying for it..

I use to get all upset in our company meetings over what you were just saying. Lowes would actually ship back semi loads of product from their wharehouses cause they over bought and we would credit them or give them something else in return. The returned product would often be dirty, damaged packaging, or have missing parts but we would still give Lowes credit or money back. I think that tells you how much Lowes business is worth to these manufacturers. Believe me Lowes and Home Depot know this too.

ProCare Lawn Service
03-13-2005, 07:41 PM
Lets see... I have a Craftsman push mower so I am a scrub.
No wait... I have buissness license, Pay taxes, and have ins so im not a scrub.
Hmmm... I have a Murray 38in cut lawn tractor that I use as back up when one of my Scags is down so yep I am a scrub.
No I know what I am. I am a legitamate Buisness and dont really give a rats a$$ what another Lco in a far away state thinks about me. Because I make plenty of money and provide a professional service to my community. Oh and did I mention I make plenty of money?

lawnguyland
03-13-2005, 07:50 PM
If you are licensed, insured and pay taxes, and know what you are doing (ie have some experience or a related education) you can use scissors for all I care and you'll be 'professional' in my opinion. Stupid maybe, but pro.

If you are unclicensed, uninsured, or don't pay taxes and drive a mercedes truck and have gold plated mowers and diamond tipped string trimmer line you are a scrub.

You can also be a 'pro' as descibed above and be a moronic jerk that acts in a scrub-like manner at the same time.

If you drive a truck that's too shizzy looking you may be a pro, but still you'll still look like a scrub. It's about follwing the law and appearances although they are two different things. Law followers are pros. Law breakers are scrubs, but anyone can look like a dirty ass scrub.

Man, I haven't even read a friggin' scrub thread on this site in years because they got so tired, like double blades. I must be bored.

dforbes
03-13-2005, 09:02 PM
I am getting back into this post after a 5th of whiskey and a few hours of fun. It seems to me that this has turned into a post against lowes and home depot. I can not understand and challange anyone to convince me how where you buy your equiptment or the equipptment you run has anything to do with if you are a pro or a scrub. The same people who will critisise you here for buying a weedeater or blower at home depot or lowes are at wal-mart tonight getting things that they need for thier families. Do they care that they are putting hundreds of americans out of jobs. NO its cheap and it does not directly effect thier job so its OK. Yes I shop wal-mart because its cheap and it helps me get by. But it P::::::s me off when these same people act like other discount stores arw s::::::t. Get use to it these stores are not only here to stay but in the future will be your supliers of commercial eqiuptment. NO WAY YOU SAY well did you ever think they would sell john deere or cub cadet or husquvarna or still. I am not going to spell checki this so please read between the lines. In closing I just want eveyone to take a look at how you spend all your money and not judge people because they try to stay within thier budjet by buying from these stores, someday you will eat you words.


Dennis Forbes

Fareway Lawncare
03-13-2005, 09:11 PM
Home Depot...Lowes...Costco...No Commercial Stuff is Sold There...Look @ the Warranty on the Crap you Kids are Buying...It's Homeowner...No Prolines..No HRC's...750's Etc. Etc. Etc.

Part of the Problem w/the Green Industry is that any Yahoo can go to Home Depot...Buy a Piece of Homeowner Equipment and Call themselves a Landscaper....Proper Tools of the Trade Distinguish Yourself from the Aforementioned Yahoos.

dforbes
03-13-2005, 09:27 PM
Home Depot...Lowes...Costco...No Commercial Stuff is Sold There...Look @ the Warranty on the Crap you Kids are Buying...It's Homeowner...No Prolines..No HRC's...750's Etc. Etc. Etc.

Part of the Problem w/the Green Industry is that any Yahoo can go to Home Depot...Buy a Piece of Homeowner Equipment and Call themselves a Landscaper....Proper Tools of the Trade Distinguish Yourself from the Aforementioned Yahoos.

First of all I'm not a kid. I buy stuff from home depot, small stuff rakes brooms, ect. Most of my stuff is commercial equiptment, which really doesn't matter. If something breaks I would take it back and they would replace it . The question is convince me how where you by your equiptment makes you a scrub. You tell me who is the scrub. The guy running a 60" scag with a 2005 dodge pu, wells cargo 8x12 covered trailer, ect. and cant afford the insurance and licences or the guy that goes out and buys a 1999 pu and goes to lowe and gets his mower and weedeater and blower but still has money for his licences and insurance. I can not understand the thinking behind anyone who can call someone a scrub for this. By the way anyone can can buy the (poper tools) and call themselves a pro Proper tools can be as much of a front as anny thing and I would much rather see someone succeed as fail. I would rather see someone start with insurance than a brand name mower. again I will not spell check please forgive my impatiance

Watkinslawnservice
03-13-2005, 09:39 PM
Home Depot...Lowes...Costco...No Commercial Stuff is Sold There...Look @ the Warranty on the Crap you Kids are Buying...It's Homeowner...No Prolines..No HRC's...750's Etc. Etc. Etc.

Part of the Problem w/the Green Industry is that any Yahoo can go to Home Depot...Buy a Piece of Homeowner Equipment and Call themselves a Landscaper....Proper Tools of the Trade Distinguish Yourself from the Aforementioned Yahoos.



Hi, My name is Dave...................And I'm a .......scrub :cry:



I'm sorry, but proper tools DO NOT distinguish you from anyone. Knowing how, when, and why to use them does. High end commercial tools may be a better investment in the long run because of longevity, break down issues and other reasons but they are not a substitute for knowledge. If your rich Daddy goes out to the local Exmark dealer and buys Jr. the finest equip. they sell does that make jr. a pro?

Anyone can go to a dealer and buy tools. That just makes you a TOOL OWNER. Being a pro is much more.

2nd of all actually the Echo stuff that Home Depot sells IS considered commercial equipment by the manufacturer. It may be the low end commercial Echo offerings but commercial non-the-less. You can buy these exact same models at your local elite dealer. I am sure that he would be happy to sell them to you. If this is all an LCO determines that it needs then who are you or I to tell them they are wrong? Does an Echo SRM210 not go around in a circle just like an SRM340?

Dave :waving:

old dog
03-13-2005, 09:44 PM
Does it really make you a scrub to use a smaller truck to carry your equipment? I dont have a trailor but I fit all of my equipment( commercial grade) in my truck and it works fine for me. I say as long as it works for you and makes you money, who cares. Having a great relationship with the customers, good personality, and doing a GREAT job will get you a lot further than anything.
EHO
If you are a "scrub" now ,you won't be for long.Your attitude in that response shows you are in it for all the right reasons.In fact,equipment does not mean anything.How it looks when you leave and a happy customer on the porch
will mean you can buy better equipment.If I were to pass you on the street
I would give you a big :waving:

MMLawn
03-13-2005, 09:44 PM
This really was not a thread about "scrubs" but was one of an experiment and an attempt to get you to take a long hard loook at your operation to see if you are projecting a good and Professional image for our business. I even tried to inject a tad of humor in the things I listed and how I listed those.

Now, those of you that have seen any of my other post KNOW that I do not call anyone a scrub and never will. Plus I don't really care what you use to cut your lawns. But in the same token I think we all agree that there is a difference in a Professional LCO and those that have never actually run a business (hence the question of a $15 lawn & think you made $14 in profit) nor have any experience in lawn maintenance other than cutting their own grass who buy themself a $99 Murray and a $59 curved shaft weedeater and says hey, I'm a business.

I posted this thread because I kept seeing where everyone says that they don't care about "srcubs" and more importantly hate "scrub" threads. Well, this thread in only 24 hours had nearly 1,300 views and over 70 post. Not, bad for a thread that people say they can't stand. What this shows me is that people in the LCO business do in fact have an interest in "scrubs". Whether they see others as one or whether deep down inside they think of themselves as one. I also noticed that not many if any of the "bigger" Fulltime LCO's on here responded but alot of newer guys, part-timers, teenagers and young guys and guys who never post did. I also think that some of the very negative, almost hateful comments came from folks that probably feel they may be a little close to the term "scrub" so they are overly sensitive about it.

So, what my little experiment showed me is that YES, "scrub" is in fact something that is on the minds and of interest to a lot of folks that cut grass for a living.

As I see it the main thing is that you present yourself and your "company" as a PROFESSIONAL Business and the rest will follow.

impactlandscaping
03-13-2005, 10:24 PM
DLCS- there was a guy in business here the last two years(gone now..), who bought wholesale returns from primarily Sears, but some other chains as well. They would place an order for a minimum amount of pieces, 5000 to a trailer, for $ 1.00 per item. It was like a 53' grab bag...lol Shows us just how much they feel about their products..The funny thing was maybe 40% of the stuff would fire right up out of the trailer with no repairs needed, another 25-30% could be made to get running, and the other 30-35% was actually junked.

Darryl G
03-13-2005, 11:59 PM
Cool, I passed the test. I guess I can start charging people now! :)

SkookumToo
03-14-2005, 12:11 PM
Dforbes is correct about "wait what the future holds as to where you will be buying your equipment". Some of you guys will likely eat your words someday. Just ask your local dealers where a Wal-mart or Lowes has come into town how much business they have lost. Wal-mart buys items by the truck load much like your dealers wholesale distributor, only by like 100 times greater.

Do not fool yourself, if Wal-mart was to call one of our commercial manufacturers and say they want 10,000 units, you'll see them units ASAP in the lawn and garden center of every Wal-mart. 7 years ago Sam's Wholesale Club was selling a commercial walkbehind and a ZTR.

I am not sure how big the chain is, but there is a farm type store here called Family, Farm and Auto. They just started selling the entire commercial line of Husqvarna mowers to add to their commercial line of power tools.

Northern Tool catalog sells all the Husqvarna commercial equipment, right down to a stump grinder. Exact same stuff Husqvarna was giving away in their promotional contest. How long do you think other commercial manufacturers will hold out until they start making deals with national chains.

It's all about the buck and how much bonus a corporate suit can make.

MMLawn
03-14-2005, 12:48 PM
Northern Tool catalog sells all the Husqvarna commercial equipment, right down to a stump grinder. Exact same stuff Husqvarna was giving away in their promotional contest. How long do you think other commercial manufacturers will hold out until they start making deals with national chains.

It's all about the buck and how much bonus a corporate suit can make.

But the NT price at the store here (and on line) is the same as my local Husky Dealers is. I don't own Husky but given that I'd buy where I could get service vs. a "chain store".

woodycrest
03-14-2005, 01:28 PM
This really was not a thread about "scrubs" but was one of an experiment and an attempt to get you to take a long hard loook at your operation to see if you are projecting a good and Professional image for our business. I even tried to inject a tad of humor in the things I listed and how I listed those.

I posted this thread because I kept seeing where everyone says that they don't care about "srcubs" and more importantly hate "scrub" threads. Well, this thread in only 24 hours had nearly 1,300 views and over 70 post. Not, bad for a thread that people say they can't stand. What this shows me is that people in the LCO business do in fact have an interest in "scrubs". Whether they see others as one or whether deep down inside they think of themselves as one. I also noticed that not many if any of the "bigger" Fulltime LCO's on here responded but alot of newer guys, part-timers, teenagers and young guys and guys who never post did. I also think that some of the very negative, almost hateful comments came from folks that probably feel they may be a little close to the term "scrub" so they are overly sensitive about it.

So, what my little experiment showed me is that YES, "scrub" is in fact something that is on the minds and of interest to a lot of folks that cut grass for a living.

As I see it the main thing is that you present yourself and your "company" as a PROFESSIONAL Business and the rest will follow.

MMlawn,
you touched a nerve...

I was puzzled when i first read this thread...it seemed odd that you would post a 'scrub thread' it didnt make sense.
Thanks for the clarification. :)

Dave

PROCUT1
03-14-2005, 02:29 PM
This is a copy of the Official Test currently under discussion as mandatory for entrance to the Green Industry Mowing and Maintenance Guild or GIMMG.


Answering “Yes” to the following adds 1 point to your total.

Equipment: Section A:

I own or operate

1) Handheld Blower ONE POINT
2) Curved Shaft Trimmer
3) Any non-commercial handhelds TWO
4) Any electric powered handhelds or mower THREE
5) Walkbehind Vacs on turf (Billy Goat and their ilk)
6) Non commercial 21” (Toro Recycler, Honda Harmony, Lawnboy Gold and their ilk) HAVE 6 OF THEM NOW IM UP TO NINE POINTS
7) Troy-Bilt 33” ISLAND MACHINE TEN POINTS
8) Homeowner rated Zero-Turn
9) Lawn Tractor YEP ELEVEN
10) Handheld leaf vacs (Echo shred’n’Vac & its ilk)
11) Attachment series stick tools (Stihl Combi System and its ilk) TWELVE
12) Power Edger’s (unless this is strict necessity in your market) THIRTEEN

Equipment : Section B:

13) My Dealer is Home Depot/Lowes/Costco/Wal-Mart
14) I have made a significant equipment purchase at any of the above outlets. 6 PUSHMOWERS AT WAL-MART FOURTEEN
15) I have no back-up units
16) I have rented a hedge trimmer or chain saw FIFTEEN
17) I work out of a truck bed or the back of a mini-van
ON OCCASION SIXTEEN
18) I haul a trailer with a mini-van or car
19) My trailer is made of wood ONE IS SEVENTEEN
20) My trailer has no drop gate COUPLE EIGHTEEN
21) The lighting system on my trailer does not function
ONE NINETEEN
22) My trailer is not plated GUILTY OF THIS ON ONE TWENTY

“Yes” adds a point to your total.

Total
5-9 Riff Raff
10-22 Scrub

If your Total remains less than 5 you may continue, otherwise your classification stands and you may not proceed.

Work Procedures Section:

1) I enjoy chatting with elderly customers and doing them small chores.
I ENCOURAGE MY EMPLOYEES TO DO THIS.......THIS IS WHY WE HAVE THE LAWNS FOR YEARS TWENTY ONE
2) I will do almost anything a customer asks even if it's not green industry related.
3) My garage is my shop
4) I do not carry pre-wound bump heads EMPLOYEE CHOICE TWENTY TWO
5) I do not carry extra gas or gas/mix
6) I or my employee (s) wear wife beaters and or cut-offs while working
7) I or my employee(s) smoke on the jobsite TWENTY THREE
8) I or my employee(s) relieve themselves on the jobsite TWENTY FOUR
9) I or my employee(s) eat lunch sitting on a customer’s front lawn
YEP TWENTY FIVE
10) My wife/girlfriend is my secretary or works with me in the field
BOTH ON OCCASION TWENTY SIX
11) My friends or relatives help out when things get busy
WHEN THE **** HITS THE FAN...ID CALL MY MOTHER IF I HAD TO
TWENTY SEVEN
12) I am part time (Add 2 Points)
13) I sharpen blades a few times a season
YEP HUNDRED AT A TIME....BUT YES TWENTY EIGHT

“Yes” adds a point to your total.

Total
6-9 Riff Raff
10-15 Scrub

If your Total remains less than 6 you may continue, otherwise your classification stands and you may not proceed.

Business Procedures Section:

1) I wait to get paid after each service visit. AUTO CREDIT CARD.... 29
2) My business cards consist of my number hand written on a piece of scrap paper.
IVE GIVEN OUT ONE OR TWO OF THESE OVER THE YEARS THIRTY
3) I have collected money from under a door mat
AS OFTEN AS POSSIBLE THIRTY ONE

4) Billing is sent out in no specific time frame
5) Billing is hand written
6) I do not carry liability, equipment, and commercial vehicle insurance
7) I pay my employee(s) cash
8) My personal bank account and or phone # is same as business'
9) I declare less than 70% of earnings
10) My employee (s) are illegals
11) My employee (s) are not paid and covered as per my States laws
12) I call myself a landscaper when my primary focus is maintenance THIRTY TWO

“Yes” adds a point to your total

1-4 Member of Green Industry Elite
5-8 High Class Scrub
8-12 Riff Raff


32 POINTS FOR THIS RATTY OPERATION



DAM I NEED TO FIND ME A SCRUBOHOLICS ANONYMOUS...........

I GUESS ILL SHUT UP .... IM GONNA GO FIRE UP MY BLACK AND DECKER..

nobagger
03-14-2005, 05:24 PM
Home Depot...Lowes...Costco...No Commercial Stuff is Sold There...Look @ the Warranty on the Crap you Kids are Buying...It's Homeowner...No Prolines..No HRC's...750's Etc. Etc. Etc.

Part of the Problem w/the Green Industry is that any Yahoo can go to Home Depot...Buy a Piece of Homeowner Equipment and Call themselves a Landscaper....Proper Tools of the Trade Distinguish Yourself from the Aforementioned Yahoos.
Wow NOT EVEN CLOSE Fareway, have you ever looked at a Home Depot Echo trimmer? says right on the damn box 1yr commercial, 2yr consumer warranty. My troybuilt trimmer came with a commercial warranty, but oh yeah mime must be that special box.

K.Carothers
03-14-2005, 09:27 PM
Fareway- Who gives a rats behind! Spend your energy on your business. Everyone needs to start somewhere. Don't judge a book by its cover.
You should read the book "millionaire next door" by the way.

Fareway Lawncare
03-14-2005, 09:39 PM
Proper Tools of the Trade Kids....If you don't Have them You Should be Working For them.

nobagger, You Can't buy a Commercial Mower @ HD in Canada...HRC's...Commercial Lawnboys, Prolines.. or Get any of the Top Echo Stuff 750's etc...Mabe Your HD's are Different South of the Border.

packerbacker
03-14-2005, 09:44 PM
****yawn****

MMLawn
03-14-2005, 11:44 PM
nobagger, You Can't buy a Commercial Mower @ HD in Canada...HRC's...Commercial Lawnboys, Prolines.. or Get any of the Top Echo Stuff 750's etc...Mabe Your HD's are Different South of the Border.

You can't in the US either. If you looks nobagger ALL lawn care equipment even electric weedeaters, hand tools and the like ALL list a Commercial & Non-Commercial Warranty (even one bought at Wal-Mart) period and the Commercial is ALWAYS shorter. They do that because they know that some folks will buy equipment not intended for commercial daily use and use it for that anyway and they know that it will not hold up for that use so they make a point to state that warranty is less.

pagefault
04-04-2005, 12:13 PM
I have no equipment. I am in the middle of writing a business plan to see if this is something that I can make work. Until today, I was pretty pleased with this site. I even registered so that I might post a comment here and there.

Now, I am not so sure. I spent the last 6 years at a software/hardware startup that competed with multi-billion dollar companies. When we first started out, we were the scrubs. When we got big and successful, we looked down on the new guys, even though we were just like them 5-10 years earlier.

I'd rather be a scrub; they work harder and are more innovative. The big guys just get fat and lazy and bent out of shape when the next startup comes along and threatens to do to them what they did 5-10 years earlier.

I'll keep reading for the information, but I'll have to think long and hard about posting again. Of course, I have nothing to contribute; I only helped to take a company from 0 to $100+ million per year.

I'm getting into landscaping because I was tired of the politics and backstabbing in the corporate world and because I wanted to be outside. I can afford any equipment I want. I can also afford to live off my wife's salary. You can call me a scrub, if I end up fitting the criteria, but I'll be the scrub cutting the lawn that you couldn't figure out how to keep and that's what burns you up.

In my past life, we had to deal with huge companies giving their equipment away for free because they made so much on consumables (think razor blades). We're talking about selling thousands of $15,000 systems against someone who gives them away, not selling a $30 cut against a $20 cut.

There were people in the industry who sat and complained about it and there were people who found other ways to compete. Maybe none of the other big LCOs are posting because they are too busy competing.

lawncare4u
04-04-2005, 12:42 PM
Yes I HAVE A MOWER MADE BY MURRAY...and it has served me very well for the crappy island work I do for my commercials for 3 years.


Why in the heck do we keep going here???

all the time :angry:

That guy must not have anything to do!Same old c***

pagefault
04-04-2005, 05:54 PM
You know what else is freaking hilarious? Someone like me comes along and asks a perfectly reasonable question, like "what is a reasonable charge for 1/3, 1/4 and 1/2 acre lots in the Austin area, bearing in mind that this is only a baseline and there will always be reasons to charge a little more or a little less?" Of course, nobody will answer. If you are lucky, you will get "multiply your costs by the time to do the job, plus materials, markup and profit"

No. You charge what the market will bear. The business side means finding a way to get all of the above covered by the fee the market will bear.

That's not the funny part, though. The funny part is when someone takes your advice and says "Hmmm. My jeep is paid for and I have $500 worth of equipment. I am working solo this year, so I have no employee-related expenses. I plan to do 30 mows this year, for each of 25 accounts. My cost per mow, with marketing, insurance, gas and the rest, is $10. So, I really only need to charge about $25 per mow to line keep my head above water. Of course, I don't want to hand out 5000 flyers and find out my prices are too high. Since nobody will tell me what to charge, I guess I'll drop it to $20 for now, just to be safe."

Wait approximately 14 seconds....

"SCRUB! LOWBALLER! YOU'RE CHARGING $20 FOR A $45 JOB! YOU'RE KILLING US!"

Of course, these are the same people that would never tell him what they charge in the first place.

That's freaking funny.

Maybe if you told him $45 in the first place, he wouldn't have lowballed you. Why risk it, though? It is much easier to ***** at him later for not figuring it all out on his own.

BTW, do you ever go back and check on the accounts you lost to scrub lowballers? If you are so much better, you should be able to get some of them back with a little effort. If not, you're probably charging too much. Maybe the market won't bear $45. Maybe your reasoning that you have to charge that much because of the investment you have made in equipment is horribly flawed.

Scratch that. There is no maybe here. You don't charge according to your expenses; you limit your expenses based on what you can charge. That's how it works in every other business.

Jpocket
04-04-2005, 08:18 PM
From all the "Are You a Scrub" posts I've seen on here and the "other site", I'd say that the majority of the people on these forms probably fall into the scrub catergory in one way or another. Yes, I buy my Echo 230 trimmers from Home Cheapo, and they serve my purpose. Guess I'm a scrub.

Some things can slide like the low end echo stuff from home depot, and a cheap 21" used for islands one a week. Small things NOT carrying your mower in the back of a ranger

rshofcols
04-04-2005, 08:35 PM
what if its a 24 karat gold plated murray ?

3sons
04-18-2005, 01:20 PM
Wow, I hope one day to be a Pro like you. :rolleyes: I work out of the back of a truck, use Home Depot equipment and even allow my customers to leave me a check in their door and love every minute of it. Customers seem happy too and I guess that is all that really matters to me.

0money
04-18-2005, 02:04 PM
He might have all the high dollar equipment but hes got all the big bills to go with it .So when it gets right down to it hes probably making no more then you or me.

BEECHNUT
05-04-2005, 02:37 PM
I think you'll know which is which.


Do you use in your everyday cutting any mower that was purchased at Home Cheapo, Lowes, Wal-Mart, KMart, Target, Sears or any other department store?

Did your Trimmer (weedwacker for some) come from one of the above?

Did your blower (if you have one) come from one of the above?

Do you use any piece of equipment named Murray?

Do you call any equipment purchased at the above "commercial" or "professional"?

Do you transport (haul for some) these items in the bed of your S10/Ranger truck, the rear of your Jeep with the seat folded down, the hatchback of your car or Ford Explorer, or heavens forbid the trunk?

Do you blow grass clipping and debis in the roadway?

Do your customers pay weekly by leaving cash under the door mat?

Do you pay Taxes on yourself, business, any employees?

Do you 1099 all of your employees?

Do you have Commercial Libility and Auto Insurance?

Are you licensed?

Do you wear cut off jeans, pants or shirts to cut in?

Do you stick flyers in or on Mailboxes?

Do you cut a lawn for say $15 and figure that you made $14 in profit?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Do you own true Commercial Mowers, trimmers and blowers that came from a Commercial equipment dealer?

Are you licensed?

Do you pay all taxes, have Commercial Insurance and do not 1099 your employees?

Do you mail or place your flyers in the proper legal place such as on the door?

Do you swear that you don't do any of the other things above?




And what kind of equipment did you start with? All commercial grade I presume. Must have been nice to start a business some years ago with all commercial equipment and uniforms.

Guys/Gals use the type of equipment you can afford that will do a quality job and satisfies both you and your customer.

But if you feel you really need all commercial gear to do quality work by all means spend your money. If you are making payments on this equipment and get in over your head some one will always be out there looking for your gear at a low price.

'Nuf said.

freddyc
05-04-2005, 04:15 PM
I use to get all upset in our company meetings over what you were just saying. Lowes would actually ship back semi loads of product from their wharehouses cause they over bought and we would credit them or give them something else in return. The returned product would often be dirty, damaged packaging, or have missing parts but we would still give Lowes credit or money back. I think that tells you how much Lowes business is worth to these manufacturers. Believe me Lowes and Home Depot know this too.



True, now where do you think all those "bad" products go---- to your local dealer who isn't buying in volume. Good thing they have a service department!

freddyc
05-04-2005, 04:23 PM
You know what else is freaking hilarious? Someone like me comes along and asks a perfectly reasonable question, like "what is a reasonable charge for 1/3, 1/4 and 1/2 acre lots in the Austin area, bearing in mind that this is only a baseline and there will always be reasons to charge a little more or a little less?" Of course, nobody will answer. If you are lucky, you will get "multiply your costs by the time to do the job, plus materials, markup and profit"

No. You charge what the market will bear. The business side means finding a way to get all of the above covered by the fee the market will bear.





If you think about it, I can go out and buy the most expensive equipment, a new truck/trailer and a slew of hand tools. All on credit of course.

Then, I go out and add this overhead to my expenses because I want to make sure I have the most reliable equipment.

So now I gotta make $80 /hr to cover my costs, so that 1/4 acre lot has to pull in $40 or I fall behind and try to find more work to cover my costs.

Then I look across the road and see the LCO with the Lowes trimmer, a used walk behind and a Home Cheapo blower. He's driving a mid 90's pickup and is offereinf $25 per 1/4 acre lot. He goes home with $10/hr and so do I.

Who's the real businessman when he needs a little more work and does that lawn for $20 and I can't come down to $30??

marko
05-04-2005, 05:21 PM
I think you'll know which is which.


Do you use in your everyday cutting any mower that was purchased at Home Cheapo, Lowes, Wal-Mart, KMart, Target, Sears or any other department store?

Did your Trimmer (weedwacker for some) come from one of the above?

Did your blower (if you have one) come from one of the above?

Do you use any piece of equipment named Murray?

Do you call any equipment purchased at the above "commercial" or "professional"?

Do you transport (haul for some) these items in the bed of your S10/Ranger truck, the rear of your Jeep with the seat folded down, the hatchback of your car or Ford Explorer, or heavens forbid the trunk?

Do you blow grass clipping and debis in the roadway?

Do your customers pay weekly by leaving cash under the door mat?

Do you pay Taxes on yourself, business, any employees?

Do you 1099 all of your employees?

Do you have Commercial Libility and Auto Insurance?

Are you licensed?

Do you wear cut off jeans, pants or shirts to cut in?

Do you stick flyers in or on Mailboxes?

Do you cut a lawn for say $15 and figure that you made $14 in profit?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Do you own true Commercial Mowers, trimmers and blowers that came from a Commercial equipment dealer?

Are you licensed?

Do you pay all taxes, have Commercial Insurance and do not 1099 your employees?

Do you mail or place your flyers in the proper legal place such as on the door?

Do you swear that you don't do any of the other things above?



You are truly a ROCK!!!

pagefault
05-04-2005, 05:44 PM
Who's the real businessman when he needs a little more work and does that lawn for $20 and I can't come down to $30??

If the market won't bear $30 and you can't get below that point, I guess he is the business man. Was that the answer you were looking for? I could not tell if you were agreeing with me or not.