new blades how sharp

[rdh]

when i buy new blades, do i need to sharpen theme be fore use , they are not as sharp as the old blades the dealers sharpen ,they are dull should they be so sharp that you could cut like a kitchen knife.

[Eric ELM]

They need to be sharpened and balanced before putting them on to use. A new blade isn't very sharp mainly so the blade company doesn't get sued, is my guess. Most new blades are not balanced either.

[rdh]

thanks a lot Eric elm
i had never used a blade sharper than new ones,
the dbl blades that i put on was straight from dealer(Dull)
and i thought they woked great ,cant wait to try sharp ones.
i all ways thought they were sharp enough and balanced since they were new
im learning thanks lawn site also.

[rdh]

the dealer charges more to sharpen blades than for new ones
so i would just buy new ones ,and use them the way i bought them .THANKS again Eric Elm.

[Eric ELM]

So buy a right angle hand grinder and sharpen them yourself. I have never hired anyone to sharpen a blade for me. You can even use a metal file to do this, but it takes longer to do the sharpening. If you are going to mow for a living, you need sharp blades everyday to do a good job. It's time to get the right tools to do the job. Read all of the other blade threads to get a better understanding of what I'm talking about.

[Runner]

If they're new, I usually just touch them up with a file. It's mostly all the paint on them that causes the roundness on the blade edge.

[TJLC]

Eric is giving you good advise. Like he has said before just because a blade is new does NOT mean it is sharp or in balance. Now, the first thing I do with a new blade is put a sharp edge on it and check for balance. That makes sense, that the reason they don't send them out sharp, is for liability reasons. (Probally spelled that wrong.)

[lawnguy ny]

sharping them is great. how do you balance them?

[awm]

I differ with most on this.Cut first.You
will see that it holds an edge an last longer.
When I sharpen i try to get as close as original
edge as i can.I think they cut well and stand more
punishment.Most may disagree but thats what makes it
interesting.

[Eric ELM]

AWM:
I don't understand your post at all. Are you saying that cutting with a dull blade covered with paint will make them last longer? What about some that are so out of balance that they are not safe to rev up to today's RPM's? You don't think they need to be balanced?

Lawnguy NY:
You put a blade on a balancer that you can buy or make and the heavy end will drop down. You then take more metal off of that end until it is balanced. There is discussion on this in the blades and sharpening posts of the past. I even have a picture of the balancer I made with bearings. I hope this helps.

[Fantasy Lawns]

new blades need a quick sharpen .....as they are NOT sharp ...but more so ...not balanced ==> balance e'm or stock spare spindle bearings !...dull blades is a top reason of lawn decline .....on the next visit (when growing) check to see if the grass tips have a brown jagged edge ...then you'll know .....

[Mowman]

When I get a new set of blades I always have them sharpen and balance them before I use them. They just don't FEEL sharp when new. Just the way I do mine.
Mowman

[smburgess]

I guess I have really been lucky, I have NEVER balanced a blade and have only had to replace two spindle bearings in ten years, and I really don't think that was because of un-balanced blades. I NEVER sharpen new blades because they have always been sharp when I buy them (48" walker blades, 21" - 36" - 48" - 52" - 62" Toro blades) they do seem to hold the edge longer before you sharpen them, under daily use I can go three or four days before I think they need sharpening. Then it's like sharpening them nearly everyday from that point on, but I never sharpen them down to a knife-edge, they seem to wear faster when that's done.

[VLM]

I sharpen my blades every Saturday as part of my weekly equip. maintenance routine. Do you all actually sharpen your blades every day or what? Where in the world do you get the time? By the time I pull into the driveway it's almost dark and I'm ready to get some food and take a shower.

[smburgess]

VLM...
I am always the first one at the shop in the morning, about an hour before anyone else, and that is one of the first things I do is replace all the dulled blades from the day before (I always have a few extra sharpened sets for each machine). After the crews are gone I sharpen the blades I removed. I cut a couple days a week, but mostly I work on irrigation, do QA, and do PM on equipment.

[Eric ELM]

smburgess and awm:

If your blades cut better new and stay sharper longer before sharpening them, my guess is you are getting them to hot when you are sharpening them.

A dedicated blade sharpener is a slower rpm machine to help prevent over heating of the blades when sharpening them.

VLM:
I have approximately 20 sets of blades for my 60" mowers and just sharpen them on weekends too. This way I always have sharp ones to throw on each day.

[VLM]

Steve, how do you pull your blades? I bought an electric impact wrench last yr. and it works ok, but is there some trick I dont know about. I mean there's no way to sharpen them while they're still on the deck is there?

[smburgess]

VLM...
I have thought about getting an impact wrench, but I do it the old fashioned way with wrenches, you can sharpen them while on the deck if you use and angle grinder ( that's how I see them do it at the Toro Dealer), but I have never considered that.

[Greenman2ooo]

Make sure to sharpen your blades to an appropriate angle. If the angle on your cutting edge is too steep, quality of cut suffers immensely. Too little angle results in a thinner, weakened cutting edge. Experiment a little and you will find what suits your situation.

A blade grinder is the right tool for the job. Spend the $350 it costs to get an entry level blade grinder and be done with it! Ask anyone who owns a blade grinder and I'd guarantee the majority would not go back to their previous method of sharpening.

I also balance every blade before it goes on a spindle. Just don't want to have to replace a spindle. I had one go bad when I was a kid, so I remember to properly maintain anything that can affect spindle life. At age 13, what it cost for the spindle alone would have been a lot of money out of my pocket, so maybe I over-learned that lesson.:)

[HOMER]

I bought a set of new blades one time and one of the blades had the hole 1" off center. I never checked until I got all the way home with them and attempted to put them on!. Anything can happen, these would have really been out of balance.

[kutnkru]

We sharpen and balance all our blades each night. We change our blades every 4 hours in the field as well. Takes an extra 5 minutes to do 'em but the end result and increase in productivity is well worth it.

Kris

[Greenman2ooo]

I second kutnkru!

Also,where does one find a good quality electric impact wrench? Cost?

[Fantasy Lawns]

you gotta pull them off to sharpen-balance correctly ...an air compressor is a great investment in the long run ....so I use an air impact ...an then a blade grinder helps

balance blades on the walker deck will help preserve the box seals longer

get a few extra sets and keep e'm sharp when you have spare time ....then the process is a 10 min affair to switch

sharp blades are just a basic process to producing great work & taking care of your equipment....they need to be atleast switched daily or sooner depending on your property conditions ...it's a pain ;-)

[Eric ELM]

I saw a couple of the above posts mentioning using a impact wrench. Below is an article I wrote on my website on how to make blade changing easy. This pertains to Dixe Choppers or any of them that have a cupped washer, as far as using an impact wrench. Here it is.

Using an impact wrench for changing blades is not a good thing since to much torque can flatten out the cupped washers. The easiest way I have found is to take a tap and die to clean up the treads on the bolt and spindle threads. This is the first thing I do when getting a new mower to get the paint, dirt, nicks, or what ever could be in them out so they turn in and out easy. One little nick in a bolt thread will make them turn harder and if you have ever noticed, bolts are usually shipped in a box with several others banging against each other, which causes big nicks in the threads. After doing this, put some oil on the bolts and then all you have to do it put the bolt through the blade holes and start them in by hand. If you give the blade a big spin with your fingers close to the center where the blade isn’t sharp, the blade will turn the bolt right into the spindle. You only need to use the wrench to tighten them up to approximately 65 ft. lbs. or what whatever your manual specifies. Put oil on the bolts about once a month to keep them lubricated.

To take them off, just loosen them up a bit and give them a big spin again and they will spin the bolts right out, but make sure you get out of the way since they will drop to the ground once the bolts run out of threads. Once you take the bolts out, make sure you set them some place so you don’t get dirt in the threads. A person needs to change the blades daily or twice a day when there is a lot of growth, to cut the grass correctly. I hope this helps. Eric

[Greenman2ooo]

Eric are you referring to the washer that goes at the bottom of the bolt, underneath the blade? No cupped washer on my machine, but I assume that is where a cupped washer would go?

Woo hoo! That means I don't have to worry about flattening my washers with an impact wrench, at least.:)

[Edited by Greenman2ooo on 02-07-2001 at 08:15 PM]

[Ssouth]

Since we are on the topic of blade sharpening I have a question for any one who uses the RBG grinders. I am expecting mine to show up at the door within the next few days. After reading most of the post on sharpening I realized it was time to put the Dremel out to pasture and invest in a real sharpening machine. Along with the grinder I purchased the mulch blade adapter and the diamond tip dresser for the wheel. My question is this. Will a normal wheel dresser work on the ceramic wheels or do I have to have the diamond tip. I found a dresser at Grainger (sp) for $25 while the diamond tip cost almost $80.

P.S. I have never though about balancing new blades, I assumed that was done at the manufacturer. Just another lesson learned here on LS. THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU

[Eric ELM]

I have the RBG and it is a great machine. I got the diamond dresser too and it is a great item. It is more than just a diamond, it has a stand that fits on the edge of the table that this diamond on a rod fits in to keep that wheel in perfect shape and flat. I think I would keep it instead trying anything else. That ceramic is hard. I told how I dress my wheel in a post last week, but you probably already know how. Good luck with your new grinder. You will love it. :)

[Greenman2ooo]

There is a right tool and a wrong tool for the job in this case. I was sold a standard grinding wheel dresser. It cleans the wheel, but doesn't make the wheel run true. Definitely the wrong tool for the job in this case.

If the diamond dresser is made by RBG, I'd say go with it. I need one, so if anyone knows where to get one mailorder, please let me know.

[Eric ELM]

Leonards sells one for it. That's where I got mine.

[Greenman2ooo]

Thanks! I have the catalog within arms reach. I see they want $78.99, so that would be going rate. :) I understand why the $13 one from the dealer didn't work so well.

[Edited by Greenman2ooo on 02-07-2001 at 10:13 PM]

[visions landscape]

We Sharpen each night and sometimes when grass gets tough we change at noon. Not a bad job or practice to preform if ifb you want a great outcome on your accounts.
YOU MAKE CHICKHEN SALAD OUT OF CHICKHEN S%$T

[rdh]

wow!!!!!!!I got a fire on one of my post thanks guys.
vision landscape you can make spinach out of grass clippings.

[Edited by rdh on 02-07-2001 at 10:22 PM]

[Ssouth]

thanks for the responce, guess I'll have to keep the diamond tip it sound like it will save money in the long run

[visions landscape]

RDH
Typed my past post to fast and missed spelled my quote
should have read "YOU CANT MAKE CHICKEN SALAD OUT OF CHICKEN S&$T> Meaning we sharpen all new blades as if they
were used. Sure hate to taste that spinach you make

[awm]

Im not saying that a new blade cuts better.
Im saying that a new blade cuts well and
lst longer for me.An old farmer saw my blades
one day an we were at his house so he offerd to
show me his way.Surenuff his method left an
better cutting edge longer.At the time I was young
and it was easy to whip the blades off as Ive
always had good arms.Up to that time I ran razers
that cut real goodfor hr or so then lost there edge
This did have to do with overheat though so your
point is taken in that regard.I just balance
with a nail but never noticed many problems
with new blades.But the bad ones i have found
had faults that made me takum back.

[awm]

I thought i had posted a responce but dont
see it.An old farmer taught me his way to run blades.
Before that I ran razors .The metal heat was no
doubt a factor,but no matter his method is the
one Ive used thru the years.I always leave a smooth
cut as thats, an occupation necessity.
I will be checking the new blade balance thing.
Went out and checked a new set i had in the truck,
They were dead on.I will be checking in the future
tho.Alot of different ways to skin a cat,he dont
like none ofum.LATER ON
ps THIS EXMARK MAY BE A DIFFERENT DEAL I
DONT KNOW.

[Eric ELM]

AWM, as you said above, you use a nail to balance your blades. This will give you an idea if they are close to being balanced, but it is not a very accurate way to do it. I would suggest getting a professional balancer or making one with bearings to get them balanced. With blades spinning at 19,000 feet per minute, they need to be very close to balanced. If you possition an out of balance blade on a nail just right, you can make it look like it is perfectly balanced, if you don't set it on the nail at exact dead center of the whole. Just try it.

[awm]

Eric you are right about getting wrong info with
a nail.Thats why u need to know what you are doing
Like I SAID THE EXMARK HIGH BLADE SPEED MAY
REQUIRE A RETHINKING OF THE BALANCE THING.
On my LT and such I can hear imbalance the minute
i engage.I guess it would be even more pronounced
on the DIXIES.due to blade speed.

[zipp669]

I too have the cupped washer syndrome but to take care of it so as to not flatten the cup so you can use an air impact there is a secret i will reveal here.
On your air compressor you may have something called an air regulator, you can turn down the air your impact is recieving as to not torque the bolt too much.
Or you may also have a impact which has its own built in air recieving features, turn it down to the lowest setting & this will help also. I release the trigger when I first hear the hammering of the impact.
It will also help when you hit the chunk of sidewalk or nice rock in the spot it wasnt to be in and tightens that blade bolt so tight you can use a 40' cheater and still not get it off, then you can zoom that baby on the highest powerfull setting & hopefully the impact will zap it off.
You may be asking yourself, hum if I have to set that regulator on my compressor then i have to change it every time I need it for another use, but wallah, if you have lines in your shop add a regulator coming off that line for the blade changing or if you use hoses just run 2 lines out the compressor & add a regulator to one of the lines & that will work too.
MY 2 cents thanks

[TJLC]

As far as sharpness goes, I feel if it isn't razor sharp you have wasted your time taking the blades off. As far as balancing goes, don't kid yourself, it is VERY important. I can tell if one of my blades are out of balance just by the vibration of the mower. I do admit I use air to remove and replace blades. I do set my gun on a low setting. No problems so far.

[awm]

T he strength of this forum is input from
various peoples experience.I would rather here some ones different opinion than here a yes man.Its the best way
to tap the forums potential. hurry getting knocked off

[Runner]

Impact wrenches.


I always used a MAC breaker bar and then a ratchet and wrench before, but now I have a Makita Rechargable impact gun. The best thing since sliced bread. It only goes to 80-86lbs., so there isn't any real danger of overtorquing. The nice thing is, is that since it's rechargable, it goes right out in the field with me, so when I change the blades on the mowers mid-day, it's a snap.

[ron]

hey question if you have the blades sharp as a razor won't the blade sweep the grass and just knock it down,or should you keep the blade tip looking like the edge of a credit card.....so it would cut better. Hey just asking.....

[awm]

the sharper the blade ,the smoother the cut
an the less work on the motor and belts etc.

[rdh]

runner how much did that gun cost.

[sheryl]

I took my blades off with an impact wrench but put them back on with a hand wratchet.

[BobR]

i use a impact wrench to remove and install blades, the wrench has an adjustment (dial) which is set for close to 100 ft lbs of torque when tightening (you do not want a blade loosening up on you when you are on a lawn).