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Kempton Cutter
03-20-2005, 10:21 AM
Allright guys here is the situation.Patio will be multi-levels, level 1 400 sq. ft. level 2 750 sq. ft. with 2 sets of steps connecting the levels another set of steps going to the pond.Level 1 has an existing concrete patio 10'x12'x8" thick. The patio is in excellent condition, but severly sloped away from the house (3/4 per foot).The homeowner does not feel the need to remove the existing concrete and would like me to run the pavers over top and extend. I on the other hand am leaning towards removing the patio and starting from scratch. I believe i may be able to persuade the client this way also but may be a hard sell. Any advice or recommendations would be greatly appreciated. I will try to attach a design picture to show the area better.

Rex Mann
03-20-2005, 03:06 PM
Here's what I would do or try.
Leave the existing patio if it is in good shape. Explain there is no warranty on this portion of the patio. Whatever the concrete does the pavers on top will mirror that movement.

To correct the sever pitch. I would screed sand on the current cement patio. Run the pipes parallel to the house. Start with a 1/4-inch pipe then move up to a 1/2-inch then a 3/4-inch then a 1-inch and so on. It would just depend on what desired pitch you are trying to achieve.

Peace,

Rex

LasVegasPavers.Com (http://lasvegaspavers.com)

Kempton Cutter
03-21-2005, 06:18 PM
Hey Rex, thanks for your input. I have already explained to the owners about the possible shifting of the patio and effects on the pavers. i do like the idea of stagering sand depth to eliminate the severe slope. I generally shoot for 3/8" slope away from the foundation. Thanks again.

Skip

jreiff
03-21-2005, 10:42 PM
I would tear out the existing concrete patio and start over. youo could run into alot of problems trying to lay over the existing concrete. And if it is already severely sloped, tell them that it needs to be fixed and done correctly and that you can do that for them.

mbella
03-21-2005, 11:16 PM
jreiff, normally, I would agree with you. However, in this case I agree with Rex. We are bidding a driveway that has an existing slab of exposed aggregate concrete in place. This concrete has been in place for over 20 years, doesn't have ANY cracks and is eight inches thick. We are proposing to pave over it. It would be cost prohibitive to remove it, but what's more, I can't justify the cost to remove it. There is no reason for us to believe that overlaying the concrete will fail. Even if we had a blank check, I would still overlay it.

WildLake
03-21-2005, 11:22 PM
If the patio has already fallen that much, make them understand the likelyhood of it settling more. Obviously they're spending a lot of money and should want the job done correctly. Imagine the mess if they need to tear the patio out later on.

mbella
03-21-2005, 11:36 PM
I understood the initial post to mean that the concrete was installed with the amount of slope that exists. If it has settled to that point then I would retract my previous advice.

WildLake
03-21-2005, 11:42 PM
That just seems like a lot of slope to not be atleast partly due to settling. Around here it is common for steps and patios to come away from new home. We just rip them out and start fresh. Only way know its done right.

mbella
03-21-2005, 11:53 PM
That just seems like a lot of slope to not be atleast partly due to settling. Around here it is common for steps and patios to come away from new home. We just rip them out and start fresh. Only way know its done right.

If what you are saying is the case then I would agree with you. However, if it is sound and was installed with that much slope then I would pave over it.

jreiff
03-22-2005, 12:02 AM
8" of concrete, i would hate ot have to tear that out and haul it off. Not a favorite thing to do that is for sure. Good thing you are able to pave over it.

Mbella- If you get that job to pave over that concrete, was wondering if you could post pictures of before, during and after. Just to see how you would go about doing it. Have never had to lay over existing concrete. Well actually will have to this summer. Have a job that has concrete steps at the front door. We did a pretty big paver patio for her last Fall. Now see wants us to tear out her concrete side walk and put in a paver walk way. For the steps, we will leave them in, but she wants pavers over the concrete steps. We will just glue them down. Should be pretty easy.

Would you recommend any other way of doing it?

mbella
03-22-2005, 11:55 PM
Justin, how wide are the treads?

jreiff
03-23-2005, 12:39 AM
If i remember correctly, there are 2 steps that are 12" and then a top landing that is 4' x 4'.

1bsman
03-23-2005, 08:15 AM
Just curious? If the concrete has settled with such a pitch, what about mudjacking to correct? I have no experience with mudjacking so I don't know what the limitations are.

mbella
03-23-2005, 08:48 AM
Justin, I would use glue on the two 12" treads. On the 4' tread, maybe glue the perimiter and sand the field.

Can Kempton Cutter tell us if the concrete patio settled, or if it was installed with the 3/4'" slope. He said the original concrete is in good shape. I would take that to mean it hasn't settled.

Kempton Cutter
03-23-2005, 09:05 AM
Mbella
To help clarify some of the issues with this project. The patio was installed aprox. 8 years ago and there is no evidence of any settling or shifting. There is no signs of cracking or breakdown of the patio. It was installed at the slope as described. I just think that the slope is excessive and it does not look nice with that much slope especially where the patio runs along the addition and meets with siding. thanks for all your input and ideas. I am scheduled to meet with the owner again next week so i will let you know how we are planning to proceed, Thanks again

skip

jreiff
03-23-2005, 01:21 PM
Kempton Cutter--Do you have any pictures of the patio, just to help get an idea of how it looks and what you are dealing with???

Kempton Cutter
03-23-2005, 03:36 PM
I don't have any pictures yet. Next time I meet with the owner I will get some now that the snow has melted.

neversatisfiedj
03-24-2005, 07:55 AM
What program is that ?

Kempton Cutter
03-25-2005, 07:24 PM
The program we run for are designs is punch pro platinum. Its not the best but it does help customers visulize the design. That picture shown was one that i threw together in a couple minutes. My wife does most of the actual designs for customers so she is much better and efficient at it than me. If you would like to see a design that she has done let me know.

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