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Old 11-20-2011, 03:10 PM
phasthound's Avatar
phasthound phasthound is online now
LawnSite Platinum Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Mt. Laurel, NJ
Posts: 4,468
Even though your group alludes to the fact that all lawn care operators and all home owners are idiots and cannot make the correct determination when using EPA approved pesticides, Thanks for saving the world.

I see Celebritism in your future and will be proud to say I once corresponded with you.

Let me know the facts I got wrong, I strive to correct statements that have been provided as non factual.

Hay, I think you are barking at the wrong dog here. The groups I belong to include: NJ Landscaper Contractors Association, NJ Turf Grass Association, NJ Nursery & Landscape Association, NJ Sports Field Managers Association, NJ Environmental Federation.

$18.00 for a bag of nutrientsplus fertilizer with cavalcade (controls weeds) herbicide (covers what like 5,000 to 10,000 sq ft)? 8 weeks of residual effect (2 apps a year) = $36.00 per year. The price of NP w/cavalcade varies widely depending on volume purchased, shipping location and formulation. There are 3 formulations available, 16-2-3, 10-4-2, and 5-5-0 all with 0.37% Cavalcade. All formulations are applied only once at 4lbs/K and provide up to 4 months protection.

$250 for 10 L of Fiesta (1.7 Liters covers 5,000 sq ft) so $42.50 per app times 5 applications a year to keep the weeds down (supression), not including fertilizing the lawn = $212.50 per year in Fiesta for 5,000 sq ft of lawn and you will still have weeds, and the turf will become thin from the excess usage of Fiesta. (the label says 2 apps only) We recommend using Fiesta as a spot treatment only, not as a broadcast treatment. We have found it to effectively control dandelions, clover and some other broad-leaf weeds with 2 applications in the spring and sometimes 2 more in the fall. The US label states "Do not apply to the same area more than 4 times a year". We do not promote "excess usage" of Fiesta, or any other products.

Neither product is any safer than the other. The EPA lists Prodiamine as Category III, Fiesta as Category IV: Cat IV is less toxic.

Paul Tukey was hired by the Canadian Cancer Society to help ban Cosmetic Pesticides here in Canada. Talk about Educating. They promoted his fearmongering movie to every province.
And what does this have to do with me?

Paul Tukey and yourself have several pictures floating around the internet with each other. Gurus of Organics. I have crossed paths with Paul 3 times in my life. This was one of them.

Education is what I am doing, Educating people about people like you two. No comment.

You are working on a project now , Glenstone project in its 1st year. a Lawn Converted from Pesticide to Organic. (It took 3 years to see a decline in Pestiticide treated lawns here once the ban was implemented) Claiming success and having people hand pick weeds, using compost and compost tea. I am not involved in this project, I will be visiting the estate this Monday for the first time.

In 3 more years you will realize that it was a failure, unless you use a bit of cavalcade. Not much Cavalcade is needed. Nobody will know right. Nobody will get sick right, because its safe as you said before. It is EPA approved.
Hopefully I will be invited back to the site in 3 years to report on the progress. Other sites I have actually been involved with have certainly produced fine lawns and playing fields. You are making an inaccurate acqusation if you think I would try to sneak Cavalcade into an organic program. As I have stated elsewhere, we provide several options including organic, natural or transitional programs and we are quite clear as to which products are allowed under each category.

Why could your gang not wait until the Organic experiment was over before writing books, making movies and creating Organic Land Care Associations about how organics create a weed free lawn. I'm not sure which gang you think I belong to. I have not been involved in writing books, making movies or creating Organic Land Care Associations. BTW, I am not aware of any organic association that promises a weed free lawn. Usually they say it is OK to accept some weeds.

Tukey knows nothing about Quebec, they still use Dicamba, Imidacloprid and Glyphosate just to name a few. Quebec just recently announced 2,4-D was safe for the environment and people when used as directed. Why don't you promote that. Again, what does Tukey have to do with me? I am not that in tune with Quebec, I don't think I've made that claim. The EPA does have Roundup under review due to concerns of inert ingredients.

Let me answer my own question here, Its all about MONEY. Not Safety and not the Environment. I can guarantee you I would be making a lot more money if I choose to concentrate on the sales of pesticides. I seriously doubt you would make this claim after reviewing my balance sheet.

Your group will destroy the Greenspace Industry if they are not stopped. What group is that?

Thousands of people have lost their business here in Ontario because of this ban. I am truly sorry to hear that and hope the same does not happen here in the US.

If there was a safer registered product that worked for us, why would I waste my time telling people this stuff. I don't know. But why do you use that time attacking someone you know very little about?

I joined this site in 2004 to share experiences and to help others as they have helped me in the past. From contracts to spray equipment to snow plowing.

You are selling pesticides, tukey is selling books and movies.
I joined the group to share my experiences and insight in a cordial manner (most of the time ). I sell a few pesticides. Why do you keep lumping me with Tukey?

The sad part is people will only believe what I am saying after they buy FIESTA and try it for themselves. You still make money on the sale. But the repeat customers will end. So far repeat sales have been good. When I speak with prospects about Fiesta, I try to be clear that it is not an organic product,it is registered by the EPA as a pesticide, requires a license to apply, should be used as a spot treatment, will take at least 2 applications and may not be as effective on some broad-leaf weeds as some chemical herbicides. With this understanding, most are pleased with the results.

Take away Synthetic pesticides and say hello to weeds. The amount of weeds will depend on how good the rest of your program is including; proper irrigation, mowing, seeding practices, and improving soil health. a strictly organic program will always have some weeds.

I can certainly understand the frustrations you are having due to the restrictions on lawn care in Canada, you are entitled to your opinions. May I suggest that before you make more unfounded remarks, you ask some questions you might have about me, my company, and my beliefs.
Barry Draycott

The nation that destroys its soil destroys itself.
Franklin D. Roosevelt
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