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Old 12-27-2012, 02:51 PM
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TPendagast TPendagast is offline
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Originally Posted by djagusch View Post
Here's the deal. You WANT a lot.

You want to work 57% of a week.
You want to work 75% of the year.
You want 177% of the ave income ($27k).
You want 92% of the ave household income (52k).

What you want is $30/hr plus some benis. It costs closed to $35/hr with tax/work comp no benis.

You want a employer to do this up front without seeing you work.

Then you want to collect ui for 3 months which we also pay for indirectly.

Basically what I hear is I'm hiring you for the privilage of paying you my wage cost and most of the profit so I can have a chance of making money off of the crew I pay you to lead. You must be a superduper employee at that rate.

Looking at those numbers I can see how it is hard for you to find a job.

I can see maybe 10 to 15 lco company's in mn that may pay that way for employee's that have been with them for a long period of time. Most $30 to $35k max.

FYI, I not saying your not worth that but what the market will pay. Also the term "liveable wage" is very much decided on your decisions in life and nothing a employer can do about it. The "american dream" of owning a house and cars has changed to a entitlement in most americans mind. Unfortnately that entitlement mentality makes the dream even harder.
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7a-6p 4 days a week? That's 44 hours a week. That's not 57% of the week.

75% of the year? You mean YOU have YEAR Round work? SERIOUSLY? if you were going to to have someone on for a FULL year you would have to pay more. Which means PAYING 25% more. Most people lay off almost all their staff.

U/I is something you have to pay ANYway, you DONT have a choice. This is a seasonal business and your rating, depending on the size of your business is ALREADY maxed. So it doesn't cost you anymore, because you ALREADY lay guys off.

WHERE do you get that 27k is the average income? Just make that up did you?
IF that's the average you are paying LEAD men? No wonder you can't find good help.

92% of the household income? Yes. that's how it works. You state 27k is supposedly some magical average, so if my wife worked for you too, we'd be at this "average" household income. so your plan is to hire someone who is not the main provider for his family? Who are you hiring retirees and college kids?

Your numbers 'you think' you should be paying are NO where NEAR what the numbers for a crew lead are at any decent sized, reputable company.
Tru Green, Chapel Valley Landscape, Ruperts, Brickman, Denisons....
They are paying, and will pay with only a resume (not seeing you work for 3-5 years) 40-50k a year for a crew lead.

THAT's the average wage for that position.

Basically what I am hearing is A) you don't charge enough (seriously? you only charge $30 per hour?)
B) You don't know the value of a crew lead ( do you REALLY want someone you will only pay 27k a year in charge of your jobs, equipment and running your men?)

C) this is why anyone decent is going to be your competition.

You say "I must be a super duper employee" Gee maybe I am, Did you miss the 22 years of experience?
I worked for tru green during the acquisition days, I've run my own business for 7 years, consulted multiple other businesses for 5 years, and a multitude of other things.
But Im not even talking about any of that, A decent guy with 10 years experience, whose resume checks out, and has photos of past work, with the clean background check/criminal and driving history who can run a crew of guys without supervision and complete the proper paper work, in a timely fashion is worth 40-50k per year easy.

You're also missing the fact that even tho you are paying the crew lead 30/hr. His joes are getting the average wage. So THOSE are the guys making 18k-25k per year. (ranging from 11-18 depending on hours and OT)
Most of the $$ you are making hourly is based on the joes. You pay the leader to LEAD, in your absence.
Your not going to make Tons of money off him or her, you are making money because you are paying that person to do what YOU would otherwise do. So you can go do something else, like run your company, run another crew, sell work, whatever.

If you insist on paying people what they cannot live on, you will always have transient people, who don't have good work ethic, wander in and out of your business, holding it down, keeping it back, spending more time redoing work, going back and fixing screw ups.

You will never get a good guy to come work for you if you think he is going to wait YEARS working for you to get good pay, because HE has to show YOU how good he is.

In most cases, a good foreman/Lead will show YOU a thing or two, because he is likely coming from a larger, more successful company, where is was likely treated poorly by management, screwed over on payroll or just tired of their bunk. Which leaves you one chance to snag him.

IF he isn't that guy, his resume won't check out.

a Lead man is going to have 5-10 years in his trade. How long have YOU been doing this work?
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