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Old 05-06-2013, 05:31 PM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: District 9 CA
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Originally Posted by maynardGkeynes View Post
Bit of a straw man there -- no one is talking about maintaining residential/commercial at sports turf level.
Hardly a straw man. HC is recommending cool season grass be fertilized throughout the summer ... not unlike how sports turf would be managed.

Originally Posted by maynardGkeynes View Post
The Seattle article is saying how clients should view clover as attractive -- sorry, not on my watch.
Where does it say that .... here?
2) Establish tolerance thresholds

With weeds this is mainly subjective, based on lawn appearance.
Accepting some broadleaf plants like daisies and clover in the lawn will save a lot of work and pesticide
exposure, and you may find them quite attractive with a slight aesthetic shift. As a nitrogen fixer, clover
even improves soil fertility. On the other hand, if certain weeds are unacceptable (like dandelions, for
instance), controlling them by spot-weeding at a fairly low threshold may make for the least work in the
long run, by avoiding seed spread.

That isn't really what it is saying, now is it Maynard?

Beyond that, do you need to keep your lawns 100%, or 99.99999% weed free? Is that not the same management intensity as sports turf? If not, please explain how it isn't.

Fact of the matter is, that particular white paper is one of the most extensively referenced papers on general turf management I have seen to date and the recommendations in it are sound.

Originally Posted by maynardGkeynes View Post
Other point is this -- the acreage of turf vs. other AG acreage is only part of the story. The other part is how intensively each is cultivated/irrigated/treated. I would be surprised if the amount of chemicals, fert, herbicides etc used by the entire lawn care industry is more than a small fraction of that used by commercial agriculture.
Here's another part of the story. How much Ag borders hardscapes? Are there laws/requirements for Ag to mitigate/prevent pollution, or are they allowed to do whatever they want?

Originally Posted by maynardGkeynes View Post
Could be wrong about that, and will check.
You could be, and you should, preferably before posting.

Originally Posted by maynardGkeynes View Post
Irrigation, where homeowners waste way too much water, is an issue however.
Another part of the story, and only homeowners? How much pollution is generated as a result of excessive and/or unneeded applications of fertilizer, pesticides and irrigation water? Do these poor management practices typically occur in Ag?

Let's take HC's suggestions as an example. How much of the recommended fertilizers and pesticides in that sandy soil would leach out of the root zone and into the water table at the example PR, ET and AWC I presented using HC's suggested run times and frequencies?

I have posted the bare bones formulas for determining appropriate irrigation intervals and amounts .... you know what I got in return? Ridiculed and dismissed by both homeowners and professionals alike. So tell me, if people aren't going to take the necessary steps to manage irrigation correctly, why would they do it for ferts & pesticides? One need go no further than this site to see countless examples of this irresponsibility, yet you think the lawn care industry is being targeted unfairly .... why?

Originally Posted by maynardGkeynes View Post
Like I say, I'm all for the environment, and respecting the land god gave us, but I think the lawn care industry is an easy target, because we don't have the lobbying clout etc etc that Big Ag does. However, before they pass more laws making it harder for us to have happy customers, I'd appreciate them taking on Big AG first.
The reason the lawn care industry is a target is because most homeowners and LCO's don't use water, fertilizers and pesticides intelligently or responsibly. Further, why do you keep inferring that Ag is unregulated?
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