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Old 10-31-2013, 09:48 PM
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tonygreek tonygreek is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Lancaster, PA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Adams View Post
All, told I have probably worked with over a hundred - maybe more. If you haven't come across this, you haven't worked with enough of them to see the vast difference.
I only encounter them online. If you surround yourself with good companies and colleagues, it's surprisingly easy to avoid the snake oil salesman. Now, there was that one time my firm destroyed Enron, but that's an outlier. lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Adams View Post
Paying a retainer for snow removal service is nowhere near the same thing. As a customer, you are paying up front in your scenario to ensure that your property is safe and your business and/or property are not at risk for lawsuit.
You're moving the goal posts and dictating what is an appropriate business to pay a retainer for. Your example uses "safety" as the reason to sign with a snow removal company. My example uses another form of safety.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Adams View Post
I disagree. One of the most effective SEO companies I have ever worked with very much makes promises because they know they can deliver. And if they don't they are willing to return some of the money you have spent. Putting your money where your mouth is...
But, is your firm promising you #1? This is the argument everyone has with the "SEO Promises" and what we're referring to. Do I make promises? Of course, probably no different than your company. Do I promise #1? No. And I'd wager yours doesn't either.


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Originally Posted by Sean Adams View Post
If the SEO firm is willing to be upfront about these possibilities and charge me accordingly, then I am game.
Common ground? Reached!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Adams View Post
What I am not game for is where most SEO firms "lay out" all the hocus pocus they are going to perform and take your money after you have signed an agreement, and then inform you that they can't control this or can't change that. Fair? Not really.
Again, we're on the same page. And, again, it comes down to hiring the right person. Sadly, this simply doesn't happen for $150/month.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Adams View Post
are we talking about service providers or consultants? Consultants, usually by definition, charge for advice, usually based on previous experience and track record. An SEO service provider and a consultant are not one in the same.
There's probably some confusion drawn from language use. I tend to view consultant/service provider interchangeably, mostly because, as a career "consultant", we also provide service, not just direction. You view it in terms of what some would call "pure consulting". I worked for the largest "consulting" firm in the world, as well as several other high-profile firms, and I can assure you that we provided tangible deliverables.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Adams View Post
For example, it is very clear that you know your stuff inside and out. I would be willing to pay you to teach me what I need to know to accomplish what I hope to accomplish. Then it is up to me to follow through.
Keep it in the Lawnsite universe and there's no charge. PM's included. It's when we leave the ecosystem that it can get appropriately expensive...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Adams View Post
But the SEO services I am referring to and referred to in the original post - that's different. They want your money, they want it now and they want it often. Not all, but many...
If you mean, say, Yodle as an SEO "service provider", then I agree, please don't give them your money, people. lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Adams View Post
Yes, usually for tangible items and labor that the consumer can see going on right before their very eyes. Not a guy behind a computer using words and phrases most have never heard of and change more often than anyone prefers. Apples again...
You're being subjective again, giving one apple a blessing, while saying that one you seem to not give credence to the no go. If I sit "behind a computer using words", does that not have the same value as a landscaper's labor? Really? If you hired someone you trust, what difference does it make if they're in your yard or at their office? Now, what should be required is status updates and reporting. I think that may be what you're probably intending to mean, which is correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Adams View Post
I've never hired an SEO firm, or any firm for that matter, that contacted me - NEVER.
You used that "landscapers kansas city" anecdote as an obvious, fictional illustration. I was responding in kind. But, it's okay. I haven't cold-called a client in 15 years. It's what happens when you have a good reputation and a client roster that is comprised of 85% referrals. In fact, my site tells people they should have a referral before even contacting us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Adams View Post
In closing, I am not trying to insinuate that you are not good at what you do.
To be clear, I haven't had that feeling at all. Not at all, actually. My entire goal has been to bring the discussion away from the slime, which really is a never ending chore, to a reasonable back and forth of two views. I hope we've succeeded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Adams View Post
Not at all. I am not even suggesting that all SEO firms/pros are thieves. What I am saying is, these are things that can be learned, applied and taken advantage of more so than any other advertising/promotional medium.
Completely agree.

In fact, I completely agree with your closing comments. I'll just not quote it all. lol

Cease fire on the quoting! We can't possible do 3rd level quoting, can we? Cheers.
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