Register free!

The Green Industry's Resource Center



Reply
 
Thread Tools   Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-31-2005, 08:58 PM
muddstopper's Avatar
muddstopper muddstopper is offline
LawnSite Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: transition zone
Posts: 2,343
Diesel questions

Engine in question, diatshu 3cly vanguard 31 hp turbo diesel.

Problem is. Engine was running fine, only has about 400hrs on it. Mowed lawn, about 15 min total run time, shut engine off for about 5 min and when recranked it knocked. Loaded on trailer and took home. Set on trailer for a few days before trying to unload. When cranking the engine seemed to be low on compression, used small squirt of either and engine fired but didnot knock. White smoke came from exhaust. First thoughts blown head gasket but smoke seemed more unburnt diesel that water. Unloaded tractor and parked in garage. Total run time about 5 min. Shut engine down and it started to puke water. Temp guage said 180. Again thought blown head gasket or cracked head. Tractor sat in garage for a week and cranked to trouble shoot. Engine cranked fine still white smoke but no compression in radiator and smoke was very oily as in diesel fule, not motor oil. Almost as if tractor wasnt fireing and just pumping pure diesel mist out exhaust. Ran tractor for a few min and it never got hot or puked any water. Shut down engine and havent touched since. I am leaning toward blown head gasket or cracked head but this isnt making any since. Pukeing water but not hot and no compression in radiator, Low on power and spewing diesel out the exhaust. Knocks one time and not the next. seems low on compression and wont fire without either one min and then cranks fine the next time. All starts where cold starts after the tractor had sat unused for several days. Any opinons before I tear this engine down.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-31-2005, 09:59 PM
MBDiagMan MBDiagMan is offline
LawnSite Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: NE Texas
Posts: 669
You should start your diagnosis with a compression test. If compression is low do a leakdown test and listen for where the air is escaping. If you hear it coming from exhaust it's an exhaust valve, if through the air filter it's an intake valve, if through crankcase breather it is ring/piston/cylinder.

Best of luck,
Doc
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-31-2005, 11:56 PM
Dirty Water's Avatar
Dirty Water Dirty Water is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Redmond, WA
Posts: 6,802
You probably got water in the fuel. This will RUIN the injector pumps and injectors on a diesal.

You probably have an ruined injector just dumping fuel into the cylinder, causing both the knock (running on 2 cylinders), and the smoke.

The easiest way to tell is to open each fuel line to the injector (carefully), one at at time and if the engine does not run worse when you do this you have found the bad injector.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-01-2005, 05:52 PM
muddstopper's Avatar
muddstopper muddstopper is offline
LawnSite Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: transition zone
Posts: 2,343
John, I am hopeing you are right. wont know for sure untill I get home and have some time to check. I plan on looseing the fuel lines to each injector, one at a time, to see which cylinder is messing up. Once that is determined. I am just going to swap the injector out to another cylinder to see if the problem moves with the injector. I will do compression checks as i swap injectors. Big concern is, if the injector is bad, would that make the machine run hot and puke water?? I also plan on doing a coolant chamber pressure test by removing the radiator hoses and pluging the inlet outlets and then pumping air pressure in the chamber and see if it leaks off. In fact i just might do the air test first. If air leaks off, I know for sure blown headgasket or cracked head and a teardown is in the near future. Of course once i get a chance to check the engine out, the problem might be obvious and I wont have to do all that checking, just start wrenching. I think this engine doesnot have steel sleeves in the bores, if not can one bore out the block and install oversize pistons. I am pretty sure it is an aluminum block but not certain about that. I worry about scaring of the block if it has just been pumping fuel and not burning it. Of course it hasnt ran much since it started acting up but it doesnt take a long time to really screw things up.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-01-2005, 10:21 PM
Dirty Water's Avatar
Dirty Water Dirty Water is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Redmond, WA
Posts: 6,802
If you have a bad injector, go ahead and replace/rebuild all three.

Though it cost me $700 to have all three injectors and the injector pumps rebuilt on my Duetz (Only reasion I know how to diagnose this problem now )
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-03-2005, 12:02 AM
muddstopper's Avatar
muddstopper muddstopper is offline
LawnSite Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: transition zone
Posts: 2,343
Well John, you hit the nail on the head. I didnt do a compression check because I didnt have the right adapter but when I loosened the lines one injector would spew foam instead of fuel. The engine would knock when I tighten the line back up. I swaped the injector with another one and the problem also moved with the bad injector. The injector is sticking intermittly and when it isnt sticking the smoke clears and the engine runs fine. I orderd new injectors today. I think you are also right about the water. My wife filled the machine from a can of fuel that had been setting outside without a cap for several weeks. I had planned on using that fuel for a brushpile. cant say for sure the can of fuel had water in it, but if it didnt it sure missed a good chance to have it. I will be draining the fuel tank before running the tractor anymore.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-09-2005, 04:24 PM
kenkmowerman kenkmowerman is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: somerville, tn
Posts: 4
white smoke

Quote:
Originally Posted by muddstopper
Engine in question, diatshu 3cly vanguard 31 hp turbo diesel.

Problem is. Engine was running fine, only has about 400hrs on it. Mowed lawn, about 15 min total run time, shut engine off for about 5 min and when recranked it knocked. Loaded on trailer and took home. Set on trailer for a few days before trying to unload. When cranking the engine seemed to be low on compression, used small squirt of either and engine fired but didnot knock. White smoke came from exhaust. First thoughts blown head gasket but smoke seemed more unburnt diesel that water. Unloaded tractor and parked in garage. Total run time about 5 min. Shut engine down and it started to puke water. Temp guage said 180. Again thought blown head gasket or cracked head. Tractor sat in garage for a week and cranked to trouble shoot. Engine cranked fine still white smoke but no compression in radiator and smoke was very oily as in diesel fule, not motor oil. Almost as if tractor wasnt fireing and just pumping pure diesel mist out exhaust. Ran tractor for a few min and it never got hot or puked any water. Shut down engine and havent touched since. I am leaning toward blown head gasket or cracked head but this isnt making any since. Pukeing water but not hot and no compression in radiator, Low on power and spewing diesel out the exhaust. Knocks one time and not the next. seems low on compression and wont fire without either one min and then cranks fine the next time. All starts where cold starts after the tractor had sat unused for several days. Any opinons before I tear this engine down.
White smoke is almost always the result of water in the cylinder head although at some times, as in when a exhaust valve is stuck open diesel fuel can spray and appear white. If it is water it can be a very slight and undetectable to the naked eye crack anywhere in the cylinder from the head, valve cavity or block.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-25-2005, 03:58 PM
Dirty Water's Avatar
Dirty Water Dirty Water is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Redmond, WA
Posts: 6,802
any updates?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-28-2005, 08:41 PM
muddstopper's Avatar
muddstopper muddstopper is offline
LawnSite Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: transition zone
Posts: 2,343
The injector fixed the smoke and power problems. The radiator cap was bad letting the water spew out the over flow but didnt seal well enough to pull water back from the little overflow jug. Problems fixed for now.

Thanks for all the helpful suggestions from Jon and everyone else.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-28-2005, 09:17 PM
grass_cuttin_fool's Avatar
grass_cuttin_fool grass_cuttin_fool is offline
LawnSite Gold Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Virginia
Posts: 3,505
Another way to find which injector isnt firing correct is to use an infared heat gun. Test the exhaust at each cyclinder at the head and the one that isnt firing is gonna be 20 - 30 degrees colder. Before that we used to run the engines and grab ahold of the manifolds and test by hand, that was on the 855 big cam cummins.
__________________
To my dad, Thanx Pops you are my dad, my brother , and my best friend



Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1998 - 2012, LawnSite.comô - Moose River Media
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:38 PM.

Page generated in 0.11419 seconds with 7 queries