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Old 07-01-2007, 08:04 PM
Woodland Woodland is offline
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Everything Must Go vs glyphosate

Has anyone here used Everything Must Go from Green Guardian? I'm curious as to whether it will be as effective as they claim and how it compares to its chemical cousin glyphosate. I crunched a few numbers and it appears that EMG is far more cost effective...if it truly works.

Roundup 18% glyphosphate is $25/qt from my distributor. 1 qt. of concentrate if mixed at 6oz. per gallon as recommended will make approximately 5 gallons of solution thus $5 per gallon of solution. The label recommends applying at 1 gallon per 300 square feet which comes out to about $16.50 per 1000 square feet.

EMG is $350 per 5 gallon pail or $17.50 per quart. At the recommended rate of 1 quart to 7 quarts water, the solution cost would be $8.75 per gallon. GG recommends 1 gallon per 1000 square feet.

If I've done my math correctly, the EMG would be a little over half the cost of roundup.

Even if you mixed the roundup at the more potent 3 oz. per gallon, the solution cost would be $8.25 per gallon, only slightly more than EMG.
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Old 07-01-2007, 09:33 PM
NattyLawn NattyLawn is online now
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I have used EMG and Burn Out vs. Round Up, and in the summer heat the EMG and BO outperform the Round Up. Drop the temps a bit and the organic products lose efficacy.

Just my .02
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Old 07-02-2007, 01:52 AM
General Landscaping General Landscaping is offline
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You need a better way to buy glyphosate.
When you buy it right, it mixes out less than a buck a gallon for a very potent strength.
Go easy on the mix and buy larger containers and you can be in for about $.50 mixed.
Once you get your numbers right,the only reason to use something else is for novelty only.
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Old 07-02-2007, 03:58 PM
Woodland Woodland is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by General Landscaping View Post
You need a better way to buy glyphosate.
When you buy it right, it mixes out less than a buck a gallon for a very potent strength.
Go easy on the mix and buy larger containers and you can be in for about $.50 mixed.
Once you get your numbers right,the only reason to use something else is for novelty only.
How much would I have to buy to get that kind of price? Even at the prices for 2.5 gallons, I wouldn't come close.
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Old 07-02-2007, 06:54 PM
General Landscaping General Landscaping is offline
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The stuff I'm using is this.
Just be sure to put it in a properly labeled container.
It's about $30 more at the garden center where I buy it.
I'm sure better deals can be found online but for as much as I use, it's not worth the hassle.

Hi-Yield Kill Zall 2 1/2 Gallon
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Old 07-30-2007, 03:46 AM
ck612 ck612 is offline
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Flame Weeding

I use Burnout 2 in the hot summers and a flame weeder in the cool seasons. They complement each other nicely. A flame weeder by the way is like having a BBQ on a stick. It cooks the weeds. That's how I deal with the cost difference between RoundUp and Burnout 2. Propane is much less expensive than RoundUp and Burnout is more expensive. It evens out the cost in the end. However, I don't have an exact price breakdown for you so I'm not sure if my combo is less or more expensive than RoundUp in the end.
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Old 08-06-2007, 09:52 AM
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Laketreefarm Laketreefarm is offline
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How can you be Organic and use Roundup? If a chemical isn't USDA or OMRI listed it's either not been tested yet or it's dangerous to use. Roundup has a much longer lifespan than the MFG's list and the effects to the user and the enviroment can be significant.
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Old 08-07-2007, 08:06 PM
Woodland Woodland is offline
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Assuming your objections were aimed at me, I am not strictly organic. I try whenever possible to use organic or biological controls. This is not always possible, however. I run a business and not all of my customers are interested in organics for one reason or another. I must respect their choices.

As for your comments about unlisted chemicals, I'm not sure what you are talking about? Perhaps you could clarify. Glyphosate is listed with the EPA as a registered pesticide and the ingredients in EMG are also listed, but as exempt.

And finally, concerning the lifespan of glyphosate being "much longer" than the mfg reports - show me proof! I get so tired of hearing people claim that a particular mfg overstates (or understates) its effectiveness or impact but can offer no evidence to support that. I am supposed to throw out the mfg's internal studies, the government oversight regulation, and in many cases independent research the coincides with the company claims and instead believe a single unsubstantiated statement from someone opposed to all chemical usage?

Having said that, all pesticides can be harmful if not used properly, whether it is a restricted use pesticide that is strictly monitored by the EPA or an exempt product such as EMG. However, in the hands of a professional, all of these chemical and exempt products can be used effectively AND safely.
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Old 08-07-2007, 11:03 PM
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Laketreefarm Laketreefarm is offline
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Organic standards

We are a USDA certified Organic ornamental nursery grower and landscaper. As far as we know, the first and only landscaper/grower in the US to qualify. (Lot's of hoops.) So we practice what we preach. Kevin my comments were not aimed at you, just a question about the thread. Sorry if I offended.

OMRI= Organic Materials Review Institute is the only USDA approved list of Organic products and is the standard for whether or not a product is considered and approved for organic use. Here's the link to the list:
www.omri.org/OMRI_brand_name_list.html My source on the longer than rated effects of Roundup and similar products is the research published by Beyond Pesticides.org a non-profit consortium of environmental scientists. Their database is at this link:
http://www.beyondpesticides.org/gateway/about.htm
As I understand it, Roundup in ideal circumstances and applied at minimum necessary rates, has a 10-14 day lifespan when exposed to the sun and not washed off by rain, dew or irrigation. If however it does wash off or is covered up by landscape fabric or mulch (often used to kill vegetation before mulch is installed) and even on debris or tools,clothes, toys that was sprayed and not exposed to UV radiation the active ingredient glyphosate can stay active for months. This is the direct cause of problems with Learning Behavior (Porter), Non-Hodgkin’s Lymphoma and Pesticides allergies, (American Cancer Society).
I visit several hundred wholesale nurseries a year as a buyer looking for pesticide free liner and specimen stock and unfortunately at the majority of Nursery operations I visit, the chemical usage violates OMRI and EPA standards. The user/applicators (often migrants) are poorly trained, if trained at all, and there is little if any documentation of what or how much get's sprayed where or when. It get's even worse when you visit large farm operations and see how they handle chemicals. (we have a 500+ acre conventional farm in Va.) If you confront the management of most of these operations or discuss the problems with the MFG's reps they talk the talk but fail to follow through. The result is that over 90% of the rural water supplies of the US are contaminated with varying degrees of chemicals like Roundup or Atrazine which are being used in the tens of thousands of tons. I talked a few weeks ago with a VP of Asplundh Tree Experts and he described their (hopefully) former national practice of saving the used motor oil from their trucks and mixing it with Arsenal, Roundup and other brush weed/killers and spraying power line rights-of-way all over the US through private properties, over water, anywhere the Power lines ran with no worker protections or public warning or knowledge of this toxic soup they were hired to spray by AEP, TVA and other major Power companies. It's a wonder they haven't been sued!
As more lawn, landscape and Arborist professionals make the connection and the commitment to be Organic and educate their customers as to the value of best Organic practices we can change our industry and the country. The result of Roundup use is not just a longterm chemical risk. It has unintended habitat consequences!
Dr. Paula Shrewsberry at the University of Maryland is currently conducting trials on the best ways to grow ornamental landscapes using Organic methods. One of her early findings (as reported last year at a UK sponsored IEP Seminar on Pesticide Practices in Shelbyville KY) was that if Roundup is used in field growing, the unintended consequence was that the host habitat for good bugs was reduced or eliminated, leaving the bad bugs a field day on the landscape stock. In Lake Tree Farms field and landscape trials on our own farms and customer's jobs, we have found that their is little or no need of Roundup with good management, careful landscape planning, and some good old fashioned weed pulling. No we don't solve every problem (wire grass still confounds us) but with time, alternative non-toxic natural solutions will be found if we all share our experience for the benefit of the public and the environment we all live in.
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Old 08-10-2007, 03:24 PM
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upidstay upidstay is offline
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Woodland

I used Everything must go, and wasn't terribley impressed. I'm sticking with my round up, or scythe.

And you definitely need a better way to buy your glyphosate. Right now a 2.5 gallon jug of Prosecutor, 41% glyphosate plus stickers, is $100 at Lesco. At 2 oz per gallon, that's 60 cents to treat 1000'.
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