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  #1  
Old 01-02-2008, 09:37 AM
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clyde clyde is offline
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French Drain issue with basement

Hello

Has anyone had an issue with the following?

I installed a French drain system around a house last week.
The architect and i talk about what i needed to do.

Dig out to the footing,Paint Concrete block with waterproofing tar, Install socked 6" perforated drain pipe.
sand around pipe and then washed gravel on top, backfill with
soil.

This is pretty much it this was an addition to a house about 40ft by 30ft with 2 storys the lower level is a basement.

NOW that i have it pretty much done the architect is coming back and telling me it needs to be redug to install a drain sheet against the CMU.

Do you know how much time and how hard it will be to dig through 2 feet of gravel then have to reinstall all of the material again.

i guess my question is who should pay for the redigging and re installation part of this. if the architect was out there telling me what needed to be done.

LOCATION, is South Mississippi.
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  #2  
Old 01-02-2008, 10:43 AM
chris638 chris638 is offline
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Two questions:
Why is there an architect telling you how to do a job that is related to landscaping? I wouldn't think you are giving him tips on how to design a house.

Why did you tackle a job you have no idea on how to do properly? Especially when it comes to water's potential to enter the house.

You never put soil over top of drainage gravel. It will migrate down to the tubing and clog.
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Old 01-02-2008, 12:57 PM
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clyde clyde is offline
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I don't see ur reply as a valid answer Chris638, not trying to affend anyone here .

The Architect draws up the house he knows what all the
design implements and therefore he needs to do things like recommend
the type of protection that is to keep water from penetrating the wall of
his design. If this were an 8foot deep basement wall i would have said Hell yea there better be a drain sheet but since its only about a 2ft CMU wall that had the French drain against it for only 30 feet or so , i figured he knew what would work and not work. I did the French drain installation correct the question is does that shallow of a wall need a drainsheet in addition to the tar protection i painted on
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Old 01-02-2008, 01:06 PM
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LindblomRJ LindblomRJ is offline
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First thing. An architect is generally not an engineer.

I am not certain of the lifespan of tar. Did you have any sort of written agreement and (or) plans and specifications?

Whenever I installed drain tile around a foundation, we would spead the tar and then ad the train tile. we never messed with the drain sheet or anything like that. But its a lot dryer where I live.
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  #5  
Old 01-02-2008, 01:18 PM
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SiteSolutions SiteSolutions is offline
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1.
Quote:
You never put soil over top of drainage gravel. It will migrate down to the tubing and clog.
So I was supposed to backfill with 15' of gravel on that basement I did last summer? And the owner is just supposed to have gravel instead of grass all against his house? The guy said he used the perf pipe with a sock on it, so it's not going to clog.

2.
Quote:
An architect is generally not an engineer.
You're right. Architects have to get a lot more schooling and experience than engineers.

3. It sounds like you did a good job. If the architect wants to change now, it is probably because the owner read something or heard something about how his neighbor Bob used different materials for his drain and he wants the same thing, and he is leaning on the architect. I would tell whoever is signing the checks that I would be glad to to redo the job a different way at my regular rate. Maybe offer a bit of a discount, but in no way lose money when you've already done what was asked. I hate paying people for the pleasure of working on their houses. I would at least make them prove to me it was my fault.
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Old 01-02-2008, 04:25 PM
chris638 chris638 is offline
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[QUOTE=SiteSolutions;2082486]1.

So I was supposed to backfill with 15' of gravel on that basement I did last summer? And the owner is just supposed to have gravel instead of grass all against his house? The guy said he used the perf pipe with a sock on it, so it's not going to clog.

There is a layer of seperation in between the gravel and the soil. Either filter fabric or straw. If you have ever seen a house being backfilled they are required by building code to seperate the soil and the gravel. Most of the time they use straw, because by the time the straw decomposes, the dirt has completely settled. Plus straw is cheaper than filter fabric. In Ohio, they must have this inspected before the house is backfilled with soil.

2.

You're right. Architects have to get a lot more schooling and experience than engineers.

Where did you get this information? This doesn't even make sense.
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Old 01-02-2008, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris638 View Post
Where did you get this information? This doesn't even make sense.
Have you ever looked into architecture or engineering programs at a major university? Engineering students are graduated in 4 years, maybe 5 if they take their time. You can't call yourself an architect for eight years plus. An architect has to study engineering and art, has to know codes, has to make it all work. Not that it is easy to be a PE, but I come from a place populated mostly by engineers. You can't spit without hitting an engineer in this town. Hell, my previous employer called me an "engineer" even though I don't have the degree. Engineers are great and all, but an architect should know his stuff.
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Old 01-02-2008, 08:33 PM
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SiteSolutions SiteSolutions is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris638 View Post
There is a layer of seperation in between the gravel and the soil. Either filter fabric or straw. If you have ever seen a house being backfilled they are required by building code to seperate the soil and the gravel. Most of the time they use straw, because by the time the straw decomposes, the dirt has completely settled. Plus straw is cheaper than filter fabric. In Ohio, they must have this inspected before the house is backfilled with soil.
Must have misunderstood what you said originally. To me, it read as though you were impying that no earth could be placed atop the gravel. My apologies.

Soil down here must be different from Ohio; we don't have to use fabric or straw between the crushed stone and fill material. In fact, if fabric is used on the drain itself, gravel isn't always used. Probably another reason is there's a lot fewer houses with real basements down here. All the "drained" houses I've worked on have been poured slab walls, with the basement being cut into the side of a hill.
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  #9  
Old 01-19-2008, 01:37 AM
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JimLewis JimLewis is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiteSolutions View Post
1.

So I was supposed to backfill with 15' of gravel on that basement I did last summer? And the owner is just supposed to have gravel instead of grass all against his house? The guy said he used the perf pipe with a sock on it, so it's not going to clog.

2.

You're right. Architects have to get a lot more schooling and experience than engineers.

3. It sounds like you did a good job. If the architect wants to change now, it is probably because the owner read something or heard something about how his neighbor Bob used different materials for his drain and he wants the same thing, and he is leaning on the architect. I would tell whoever is signing the checks that I would be glad to to redo the job a different way at my regular rate. Maybe offer a bit of a discount, but in no way lose money when you've already done what was asked. I hate paying people for the pleasure of working on their houses. I would at least make them prove to me it was my fault.
I was going to chime in, but SiteSolutions pretty much summed up exactly what I would have said. This is sound advice.
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  #10  
Old 01-19-2008, 09:54 AM
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clyde clyde is offline
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Little update for all those wandering what happened.

The architect got out there and started digging!

We all met and he never said a word he showed up in bluejeans ( instead of formal as usual) and me and the contractor were like Hmmmm.

I asked him if he had been working out this morning and all he said was i am ready to start digging. I was like well blow me down

So i felt sorry for the guy and helped him for the day and thats all he got out of me.
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