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Old 09-14-2009, 07:34 PM
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tracyalan tracyalan is offline
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Winterizer

Do any of you offer, or apply a winterizer for any customers? I have been telling my customers about it and wanted to see if everyone does this or not.
Thanks...Tracy
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Old 09-14-2009, 08:02 PM
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americanlawn americanlawn is offline
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We sure do -- always have. Most land-grant universities strongly recommend a late fall fert. Even saying it's the most important application of all. Colorado State is a fine institution - you may want to check with them as well. Some guys use 46-0-0 quick-release. Others use a 44-0-0 w/some slow release. Others like heavy N plus some K.

Since you're in the Denver area, I'd strongly suggest a late fall winterizer app. My 2 cents worth. Especially cuz lawns get beat up with dry heat during the growing season.
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Old 09-14-2009, 11:11 PM
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Scotts has already sold people on the idea. Just offer it to your customers--mention the benefits--they will buy.

If you read through the seed company sites, they often recommend the majority of the fertilizer be applied in the fall when the rhizomes are forming. Thicker grass results.
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Old 09-15-2009, 10:29 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is online now
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Timing is my only question to what the Universities say.
Early Oct. I see results b4 winter. Late Oct. there is no more evidence of it being injested and used. Our U. Extension claims that you can put it down as late as Thanksgiving.

Winterizer is the most valuable time to apply. The thicker lawn that Riggle mentioned is best developed now , in the fall, and strengthened for spring. Unfortunately most applicators need money as soon as the snow is gone and will dump a new batch of N on the lawn.

So all the efforts the plant was making to grow root depth are wasted and the thatch only thickens.
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Old 09-27-2009, 05:37 PM
dishboy dishboy is offline
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Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post

So all the efforts the plant was making to grow root depth are wasted and the thatch only thickens.
Not necessarily true, it depends on amount and type of N applied as well as established microbe populations and types. Early spring is excellent root growing time and if the fall N is no longer available and the early spring application if is light enough not to push top growth roots will benefit. You can not tell me feeding the microbe population is not a good thing ........even in the spring. Regarding thatch, this is usually a watering issue , not so much a fertilizer issue IMO.
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Old 09-28-2009, 09:37 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is online now
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Originally Posted by dishboy View Post
Not necessarily true, it depends on amount and type of N applied as well as established microbe populations and types. Early spring is excellent root growing time and if the fall N is no longer available and the early spring application if is light enough not to push top growth roots will benefit. You can not tell me feeding the microbe population is not a good thing ........even in the spring. Regarding thatch, this is usually a watering issue , not so much a fertilizer issue IMO.
The purpose of winterizer is to build the carbs inside the plant for spring time growth. Storing up fat for the winter and spring, as it were.
In the spring as the soil warms, from the top down, the first awakening roots would soak up the water as soon as it was able. In that same layer the microbes are also coming to life. Those roots start growing as the microbes generate nutrients for them, as needed.

Soon the surface dries and warms even deeper and more roots do more growing deeper in the soil. This wakeup is fueled by the stored nutrients and is first and foremost for the purpose of growing roots. This is where the competition for soil space begins. This is when the plant takes advantage the loosened soil, from the freezing/thawing cycle and gets as deep as it possibly can.

During the spring wakeup, very little is happening above ground, by comparison. The plant does not need lots of green growth at this time, therefore it does not waste energy on green growth at this time. It needs root growth and that it what it is focussing on, naturally.

Putting N on at this time changes the natural process of root development to shoot development, and the roots expand greatly at the surface because that is where all the food is. This begins the endless cycle of regular feedings and surface grown roots and the development of thatch.

At least that is the way I understand it and it makes sense to me.
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
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  #7  
Old 09-28-2009, 10:46 AM
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FERT-TEK FERT-TEK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
The purpose of winterizer is to build the carbs inside the plant for spring time growth. Storing up fat for the winter and spring, as it were.
In the spring as the soil warms, from the top down, the first awakening roots would soak up the water as soon as it was able. In that same layer the microbes are also coming to life. Those roots start growing as the microbes generate nutrients for them, as needed.

Soon the surface dries and warms even deeper and more roots do more growing deeper in the soil. This wakeup is fueled by the stored nutrients and is first and foremost for the purpose of growing roots. This is where the competition for soil space begins. This is when the plant takes advantage the loosened soil, from the freezing/thawing cycle and gets as deep as it possibly can.

During the spring wakeup, very little is happening above ground, by comparison. The plant does not need lots of green growth at this time, therefore it does not waste energy on green growth at this time. It needs root growth and that it what it is focussing on, naturally.

Putting N on at this time changes the natural process of root development to shoot development, and the roots expand greatly at the surface because that is where all the food is. This begins the endless cycle of regular feedings and surface grown roots and the development of thatch.

At least that is the way I understand it and it makes sense to me.
Good post Small axe and is pretty much in line with what I posted in my reply earlier in this thread. Furthermore any fertilizer applied in the late fall that has microbial activity usually will not work well due to soil temps. For example my primary nitrogen source (MESA nitrogen from Lebanon) is not used as a winterizer.
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Old 09-28-2009, 12:49 PM
dishboy dishboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
The purpose of winterizer is to build the carbs inside the plant for spring time growth. Storing up fat for the winter and spring, as it were.
In the spring as the soil warms, from the top down, the first awakening roots would soak up the water as soon as it was able. In that same layer the microbes are also coming to life. Those roots start growing as the microbes generate nutrients for them, as needed.

Soon the surface dries and warms even deeper and more roots do more growing deeper in the soil. This wakeup is fueled by the stored nutrients and is first and foremost for the purpose of growing roots. This is where the competition for soil space begins. This is when the plant takes advantage the loosened soil, from the freezing/thawing cycle and gets as deep as it possibly can.

During the spring wakeup, very little is happening above ground, by comparison. The plant does not need lots of green growth at this time, therefore it does not waste energy on green growth at this time. It needs root growth and that it what it is focussing on, naturally.

Putting N on at this time changes the natural process of root development to shoot development, and the roots expand greatly at the surface because that is where all the food is. This begins the endless cycle of regular feedings and surface grown roots and the development of thatch.

At least that is the way I understand it and it makes sense to me.
That may be true for your location, but here the ground may or may not freeze, so roots continue growing throughout the winter or start early in the spring. IMO a light Organic spring application does not force growth and the existing night-crawler population will make quick work of getting that ORGANIC fertilizer into the root zone.
Case in point, did a application late February and also fertilized (corn meal) under the trees in a non turf area. I returned the next morning to see hundreds of two inch circles where the night-crawlers had cleaned the corn meal and dragged it into their burrows overnight. So in reality this fertilizer was quickly brought into the root zones.
I don't think this is a black and white issue, light applications of Organic fertilizer will produce different results than a dump of quickly available CWS N.
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  #9  
Old 10-05-2009, 09:47 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dishboy View Post
That may be true for your location, but here the ground may or may not freeze, so roots continue growing throughout the winter or start early in the spring. IMO a light Organic spring application does not force growth and the existing night-crawler population will make quick work of getting that ORGANIC fertilizer into the root zone.
Case in point, did a application late February and also fertilized (corn meal) under the trees in a non turf area. I returned the next morning to see hundreds of two inch circles where the night-crawlers had cleaned the corn meal and dragged it into their burrows overnight. So in reality this fertilizer was quickly brought into the root zones.
I don't think this is a black and white issue, light applications of Organic fertilizer will produce different results than a dump of quickly available CWS N.
Good post. I agree that organic fert does not spike the green growth, nor does it 'force' the green growth in the spring. Earthworms are definately worth everything to any soil. Too bad they don't take synthetics NPK prills down into the root zone.
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
*
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  #10  
Old 10-07-2009, 12:27 PM
Marcos Marcos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
The purpose of winterizer is to build the carbs inside the plant for spring time growth. Storing up fat for the winter and spring, as it were.
In the spring as the soil warms, from the top down, the first awakening roots would soak up the water as soon as it was able. In that same layer the microbes are also coming to life. Those roots start growing as the microbes generate nutrients for them, as needed.

Soon the surface dries and warms even deeper and more roots do more growing deeper in the soil. This wakeup is fueled by the stored nutrients and is first and foremost for the purpose of growing roots. This is where the competition for soil space begins. This is when the plant takes advantage the loosened soil, from the freezing/thawing cycle and gets as deep as it possibly can.

During the spring wakeup, very little is happening above ground, by comparison. The plant does not need lots of green growth at this time, therefore it does not waste energy on green growth at this time. It needs root growth and that it what it is focussing on, naturally.

Putting N on at this time changes the natural process of root development to shoot development, and the roots expand greatly at the surface because that is where all the food is. This begins the endless cycle of regular feedings and surface grown roots and the development of thatch.

At least that is the way I understand it and it makes sense to me.

In theory, I believe all of what Smallaxe has to say to be true.
What I believe generally is not true is vastly varying soil's structure's' abilities to contain highly soluble 46-0-0 for long enough periods of time so that the vastly varying root systems of turf we all deal with can adequately & cost-effectively make the most efficient use of it.

As with what commonly occurs in agriculture worldwide, a significant & varied % of lawn care urea gets wasted annually into the water table and/or off into the watershed, depending upon factors like overall turf density, slope, local soil type & overall porosity.

This is only one reason why the use of quick-release N should be severely limited in the late fall, and in some of the more sensitive parts of the country restricted in turf, as it's entering dormancy, and certainly after its already achieved dormancy.
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