Register free!
Search
 
     

The Green Industry's Resource Center


Click for Weather
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-13-2010, 10:43 PM
intravino intravino is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 23
Need Advice..New system trimmer hedger

Hi, this is my first post.

I'm not a landscaper, just an homeowner that need a good system for my lawn and ceder hedges. I have to trim some 50 feet long of ceder hedges that are at least 10 feet high that where never trimmed. The other hedges were trimmed before.

I own right now a Stihl FS38 that I will sell on the internet. I just want to buy a good system now and not make the mistake of getting low end stuff but I don't want to overspend on professional stuff if it's not needed.

Anyways, I am looking at purchasing an attachment system like the PAS, Kombi or others. I was looking at: Stihl, Echo, Shwindaiwa, Redmax, Husky and Tanaka.

I have a few questions:

I heard that it's better not get a hedge trimmer that the pole is too long?

Is the Stihl KM55 motor head good or it's too low end?

Paying extra for a solid shaft and bearing drive, is it worth it?

What about 2 rings piston?


Carburetors, What is the difference between :

A) Walbro diaphragm

B) Walbro WYL barrel valve carburetor for all position use, and excellent throttle response and fuel metering throughout entire rpm range.

Does the Echo PAS system comes with a solid shaft and bearings?

Does the 4 mix and C4 really more heavy then a traditional 2 stroke design?


Thanks for your time.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-14-2010, 09:11 AM
Lazer_Z's Avatar
Lazer_Z Lazer_Z is online now
LawnSite Silver Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: NJ
Posts: 2,642
Go with Stihl & their Kombi system. If you're looking for commercial durability and power look at the KM 90 R, if you need to trim tall hedges the hedge trimmer attachment is ideal. It's not very heavy, but it can be a little awkward to use at certain points. The 90 would be just right and have enough power to do what you want without it being overkill. I have a KM 130 R, with the hedge trimmer, trimmer and edger attachments, that (the KM 130 R) would be way overkill for you just using it around your house.

Hope this help some and if you have any more questions just ask.
__________________
Rob
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-14-2010, 10:44 AM
intravino intravino is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 23
Advice

Thanks for the Advice Lazer_Z !


Two questions:

Is there a big difference in the blades ( Hedge Trimmer ) between the high end manufacturers ?

Also, I read that there was bugs in the 4-mix system is the beginning, are there any problems left?


Thanks,
__________________
Intravino
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-14-2010, 01:25 PM
Lazer_Z's Avatar
Lazer_Z Lazer_Z is online now
LawnSite Silver Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: NJ
Posts: 2,642
Quote:
Originally Posted by intravino View Post
Thanks for the Advice Lazer_Z !


Two questions:

Is there a big difference in the blades ( Hedge Trimmer ) between the high end manufacturers ?

Also, I read that there was bugs in the 4-mix system is the beginning, are there any problems left?


Thanks,
1st question: If I'm reading it correctly, you mean (and I'll use Stihl as an example) between an HS 45 and an HS 81 T? Those are both dedicated hand held hedge trimmers. If that's what you mean, then yes a unit like the HS 45 uses a blade against anvil cutting system whereas an HS 81 uses blade against blade, similar to a pair of scissors. The attachment for the Kombi uses blade against blade cutting. I believe Echo, Shindaiwa, Red Max and others use that as well.

2nd question: Very early on there were problems and there are a few that pop up now and then, but I and a few others on here have 1st generation Stihl BR600 back pack blowers and have had zero problems. All of my hand held equipment is Stihl, that is how much I trust A: the brand and B: my dealer.

A lot of guys that run stihl on here use the Synthetic oil in the white bottle when making their mix as well as a high grade of gasoline. I've personally used the orange bottle with a high grade of gas and noticed no problems, I am however going to try the Synthetic in the spring. You will also need to do a valve adjustment at least once in the machines life, you can do this your self if you are so inclined or your dealer can do it.

I'm sure you've done enough research to know that the Stihl 4Mix and Shindaiwa C4 can be run at ANY angle, even up side down. They are not the type you see built by the likes of troy built that have a separate tank for the oil. With the Stihl and Shindaiwa machines you mix oil and gas as if you were using a traditional 2 cycle machine.

Damn, I wrote a novel to 2 simple questions lol, I hope this makes things a little easier for you.
__________________
Rob
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-30-2013, 10:53 PM
diyer999 diyer999 is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 121
Hey Intravino,

I dont have a problem bashing Stihl for what they need to be bashed about. Having read your question, I will offer my thoughts. And since your post is 2 years old now, then perhaps another home owner with the same situation can use the information. I have the same problem, low hedges and very tall ones too. I had to purchase several tools to save time and frustration, but not all at once. The crux of the problem is this: If you have to pay full retail price for the tools you need but you only do this periodically, then it is far more expensive for you than for a landscaper who is making money using tools. You get no return on your investment and you are forced to think in terms of one tool to do it all. There is no such tool. For example, I fix my own vehicles, but it just isnt possible to do that with just a crescent wrench. Regardless of the trade or the job at hand, you need the same tools that pros need but you just dont need them as often. Once I realized that, I gave up on the multi-tool-five-tools-in-one idea, the freakin Swiss Army knife theory. All that changin this and changin that, on and off all the time, gets old real quick. And they dont work as well as dedicated single purpose tools.

First off, I would NOT under any circumstances trust what LaserZ advised. I asked a question one time and Alan0354 was the only person who even remotely paid attention to what I was inquiring about. My experience with this site is that the majority of people will answer a technical question with brand suggestions. Internet sites are mostly marketing opportunities for sponsors and their followers. More often than not you will hear Stihl and Amsoil being mentioned as if they are the magical solution to every problem. Nothing could be further from the truth. Sitting back and reading the replies, Alan answered your question with more objective analysis, whereas, LaserZ just jumped on it with brand loyalty. I mean think about it Intravino, really, what do you think a Chevy dealer is going to tell you about a Chevy and a Ford. Do you really think he will advise you not to buy that Chevy but to go buy the better Ford model across the street? LaserZ cannot see the forest from the trees. I'm not saying that Stihl is the worst choice, you could do much worse, but only that thinking brand first is not the best approach to get the truth.

Alan is saying he doubts a short reach pole hedge trimmer will take care of the really tall stuff without a ladder. THAT is 100% true. It just depends on the height of the hedge, NOT the brand. If the hedge gets high enough, even the longest pole hedge trimmer will not reach the top, no matter what brand it is. What if they grow to 20 ft -- your gonna need a ladder, or something else besides the trimmer -- [think cherry picker]. My point is that if you have hedges that are just too tall or too numerous, you might be better off getting rid of them.

You would not want to do this job with "any" brand of long reach hedge trimmer, I dont care if Stihl gave you theirs for free: :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0nxGzur3i8

All of the [major] brands will offer at least one tool that will do part of what you need to do, and do it well. But no brand has one tool that will do it all. You know what they say about a jack of all trades and a master of none. The hedge does not know what brand you are using -- its absurd, forget thinking brand, listen to Alan. It may end up being a Stihl but dont start your search blind to all possibilities. And dont buy into this professional thing, there is no such thing. Few professionals are competent [13% at most] anyway, they are too busy taking the time to earn a living and just cannot spend the time on anything like a do-it-your-selfer can. I cant express that point enough. If you have the time you can do a much better job at anything better than a professional will ever do -- they have to watch the clock, you dont!

You mentioned low end vs, commercial. Forget consumer brands of anything ever, if at all possible. Dont ever consider Black & Decker anything. Think commercial always: Redmax, Husqvarna, Maruyama, Tanaka, Kawasaki, Honda -- those brands first, because they believe in using lots of bearings and two piston rings, and they are proven to be more reliable and durable as a result. Then secondly consider Stihl, Shindaiwa, or Echo. Its being reported that Stihl is starting to use single ring pistons, so check into that. Dont trust what salesman tell you. Echo and Shindaiwa use single ring pistons in everything, and they also use less bearings in their newest products.

The main issue with Stihl is their trying to monopolize and create proprietary tools. Several other companies have done that, like IBM, Mercedes-Benz, Microsoft, AT&T. They failed to a great extent because they force you back to the dealership for everything, eliminating the aftermarket as much as possible. People resent that, I resent that, and you are better off not listening to anyone telling you this or that brand is the best. Decide what you need before you consider any brands.

Another issue for me with Stihl is you cant see parts breakdowns online, or get other detailed information you need on Stihl products. Is Stihl using bearings or as many of the same quality as the other mfrs are? Will a Stihl salesman lie to me about that? Do I have to buy it to find out? Go to the Stihl website and you tell me -- you cant because they wont let you see that. To me that is hiding critical pre-sales information, and I almost never choose a Stihl product because of that single fact. It bites Stihl in the ass everytime.

Most people need to be able to "easily" work on their own stuff sooner or later. Guys want to do that, its a great feeling. Stihl makes it very hard to do that. That is what I resent the most. Concerning other issues, many landscapers have told me that they have more problems getting Stihl equipment to start than they do with the other commercial brands like. I have a Stihl string trimmer and it has not run for the last 5 years. I have recently taken the piston out to clean out the carbon (stuck rings low 75 psi compression), still wont start, now I have the carb off, cleaned it and we'll see, but none of the other tools have acted like that. It even has spark but still wont run. Its by far the most troublesome piece of equipment I own.

But I still consider the Stihl brand every time I need a new tool, because there are far worse products out there. Imagine a no name worst of China made string Trimmer from eBay -- what a freakin nightmare that would be! So, what I mean by all this, is that although I consider Stihl, I usually end up with either a Redmax, Honda, Husqvarna, Maruyama, Kawasaki, or Tanaka, not in any particular order. They are far more open about what they produce and dont hide crucial details. But I still think need first, before brand. It is usually just too time consuming to get any details about the Stihl tool, and I dont even consider Echo or Shindaiwa anymore, since they abandoned the two ring piston, and using lots of bearings. And with all the hiding this and that I have given up on Stihl too; with one exception, their expensive high end chainsaws made in Germany. Stihl has more knowledge about chains than others and that is the one Stihl exception for me. Of course Jonsered and Husqvarna are good too, but its just a hunch on going with Stihl chains, they make their own chains, I like that. Chainsaws are Stihl's long time bread and butter product.

I have owned Stihl, Echo, Redmax, Honda, Husqvarna, almost some Maruyama and Kawasaki tools, as well as, Poulon Pro, Black & Decker, Homelite, Craftsman, Troybilt, etc, and other lower end brands. I like Weedeater the best out of the low end brands, and usually Redmax for most high end stuff. But it really depends on the tool I need. I consider everything, price, warranty, country of origin, design, reviews, durability, reliability, model considered, etc. Redmax recently woke up and now offer a 4 yr warranty for residential, but I resent having to pay a fee for that. I love the Maruyama 5 yr commercial warranty, but cannot find the product locally, no dealers will carry it, and they say parts take months to get, but I like them on paper. Kawasaki of course, great engines, but I'm told the non engine parts have problems. Honda is limited to a heavy 4 stroke blower and trimmers. Husqvarna is a global giant, beyond landscaping and into farming and forestry tools. They know a thing or two, and smartly purchased Redmax for their awesome Strato charged engine that everyone is trying to copy without actually getting caught doing that.

I would advise you to stay away from the hybrid combo ****, part 2 cycle part 4 cycle. They are all junk pure and simple, just a dumb design, a waste of time -- wait until you have to fix one yourself. I would go 4 cycle before considering a hybrid.

Btw, since your OE post, you may have gotten a Stihl system or single Stihl products. You could do much worse. Btw # 2, I wouldnt touch a certain model Redmax trimmer that is made in China. It is a consumer grade model and I'm hearing it is a real POS, and personally I am a Redmax lover. I dont like China anything except women and food. Japan, Germany, Switzerland, Sweden, US, makes the good stuff.

But dont think brand first, think need first. For example, if I was a very tall person and needed a string trimmer, I would first be checking out that 71" shaft Tanaka. Pole Saw, now you want to think Stihl. Brushcutter, Husqvarna for sure. Blowers, Redmax always.

Alan wont steer you wrong. I needed a trimmer years ago and he got me asking all the correct questions. He got a Maruyama which I also liked but was not able to get, so I ended up with a very heavy Redmax. Its a beast, will run for 30 years, but it is not enough so, I am getting two more trimmers. That Stihl model the other guy recommended maybe be ok, but I just didnt like his attitude, salesmanship, and brand pushyness -- he wasnt even willing to consider anything else or discuss it with you.

PS. If you want true commercial level quality, start thinking Redmax, Husqvarna, Maruyama.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-14-2010, 04:13 PM
Alan0354's Avatar
Alan0354 Alan0354 is offline
LawnSite Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: San Jose, Ca.
Posts: 4,458
Quote:
Originally Posted by intravino View Post
Hi, this is my first post.

I'm not a landscaper, just an homeowner that need a good system for my lawn and ceder hedges. I have to trim some 50 feet long of ceder hedges that are at least 10 feet high that where never trimmed. The other hedges were trimmed before.

I own right now a Stihl FS38 that I will sell on the internet. I just want to buy a good system now and not make the mistake of getting low end stuff but I don't want to overspend on professional stuff if it's not needed.

Anyways, I am looking at purchasing an attachment system like the PAS, Kombi or others. I was looking at: Stihl, Echo, Shwindaiwa, Redmax, Husky and Tanaka.

I have a few questions:

I heard that it's better not get a hedge trimmer that the pole is too long?

Is the Stihl KM55 motor head good or it's too low end?

Paying extra for a solid shaft and bearing drive, is it worth it?

What about 2 rings piston?


Carburetors, What is the difference between :

A) Walbro diaphragm

B) Walbro WYL barrel valve carburetor for all position use, and excellent throttle response and fuel metering throughout entire rpm range.

Does the Echo PAS system comes with a solid shaft and bearings?

Does the 4 mix and C4 really more heavy then a traditional 2 stroke design?


Thanks for your time.
For 10' tall hedges, it is really a catch 22!!! Normally I would strongly recommend a short reach articulate hedge trimmer attachment. Only Shindaiwa and Husqvarna make multi tool attachment series with short reach articulate hedge attachment. This can totally replace a normal hedge trimmer and you only need this to do all hedge work. BUT, it does not reach to 10' unless you climb on a leather.

What you need is a extended reach articulate hedge attachment. Every brand has it. BUT you cannot control it well enough to do regular hedge trimmer on short hedges, it is way to long.

Stihl and Echo have only midium reach ( about 20") extension on the attachment side. It is the middle of the road. I don't know whether it is long enough. They all have extended reach articulate hedge attachment.

If I were to deal with this, I would still get the Shindaiwa M242 or M2510 with both short and long reach articulate hedge attachment. Those attachment is about $220. With the two, you never need to buy a regular hedge trimmer anymore. I have M242 with short reach, I retire my Echo HC151!!!

On the down side of Shindaiwa, Stihl have more attachment options for future use if you are willing to get a regular hedge trimmer on the side. I think Shihl have extension that is very useful for pole pruning which Shindaiwa don't have. You can get a lot more power with Stihl. My question is whether you need a lot of power?

Echo don't have short reach articulate hedge attachment either but they have dethatcher attachment that nobody else have. So really come down to what you want in the future.

Regarding 2 rings, I'd take a two rings any time of the day. Echo is single ring, both Stihl and Shindaiwa are two rings. I don't know about the new Stihl HomeScaper series. It used to be a two rings engine which is very good, but I think they change to a new engine, so I don't know.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-14-2010, 06:31 PM
Lazer_Z's Avatar
Lazer_Z Lazer_Z is online now
LawnSite Silver Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: NJ
Posts: 2,642
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan0354 View Post
For 10' tall hedges, it is really a catch 22!!! Normally I would strongly recommend a short reach articulate hedge trimmer attachment. Only Shindaiwa and Husqvarna make multi tool attachment series with short reach articulate hedge attachment. This can totally replace a normal hedge trimmer and you only need this to do all hedge work. BUT, it does not reach to 10' unless you climb on a leather.

What you need is a extended reach articulate hedge attachment. Every brand has it. BUT you cannot control it well enough to do regular hedge trimmer on short hedges, it is way to long.

Stihl and Echo have only midium reach ( about 20") extension on the attachment side. It is the middle of the road. I don't know whether it is long enough. They all have extended reach articulate hedge attachment.

If I were to deal with this, I would still get the Shindaiwa M242 or M2510 with both short and long reach articulate hedge attachment. Those attachment is about $220. With the two, you never need to buy a regular hedge trimmer anymore. I have M242 with short reach, I retire my Echo HC151!!!

On the down side of Shindaiwa, Stihl have more attachment options for future use if you are willing to get a regular hedge trimmer on the side. I think Shihl have extension that is very useful for pole pruning which Shindaiwa don't have. You can get a lot more power with Stihl. My question is whether you need a lot of power?

Echo don't have short reach articulate hedge attachment either but they have dethatcher attachment that nobody else have. So really come down to what you want in the future.

Regarding 2 rings, I'd take a two rings any time of the day. Echo is single ring, both Stihl and Shindaiwa are two rings. I don't know about the new Stihl HomeScaper series. It used to be a two rings engine which is very good, but I think they change to a new engine, so I don't know.
To the 1st highlighted sentence, BULL SH*T!!! I can reach 10' plus, I know this because I've done it. If you're buying an attachment or a dedicated machine that has the reach why do you need a ladder? that defeats the whole purpose of the dang machine. I did some trimming for a friend of some arborvitae that had to be at least 12' and the reach was perfect, no ladder needed.

2nd sentence, It takes a good amount of upper body strength to keep the machine balanced ABOVE YOUR HEAD when using it. For normal trimming it's as easy as can be, as long as you know what you are doing.

Please don't revert back to your old ways, you were for a while gaining my respect for not bashing Stihl as much as you had. I had already given the gentleman a power head recommendation, the KM 90 R. He's a home owner (just like you) he won't be needing the gobs and gobs of power the 110 and 130 produce so it would be foolish on my part to recommend either of those to him. The KM 55 may suit his needs, but even if I my self were a home owner I'd go with the 90.
__________________
Rob
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-14-2010, 07:27 PM
Alan0354's Avatar
Alan0354 Alan0354 is offline
LawnSite Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: San Jose, Ca.
Posts: 4,458
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazer_Z View Post
To the 1st highlighted sentence, BULL SH*T!!! I can reach 10' plus, I know this because I've done it. If you're buying an attachment or a dedicated machine that has the reach why do you need a ladder? that defeats the whole purpose of the dang machine. I did some trimming for a friend of some arborvitae that had to be at least 12' and the reach was perfect, no ladder needed.

2nd sentence, It takes a good amount of upper body strength to keep the machine balanced ABOVE YOUR HEAD when using it. For normal trimming it's as easy as can be, as long as you know what you are doing.

Please don't revert back to your old ways, you were for a while gaining my respect for not bashing Stihl as much as you had. I had already given the gentleman a power head recommendation, the KM 90 R. He's a home owner (just like you) he won't be needing the gobs and gobs of power the 110 and 130 produce so it would be foolish on my part to recommend either of those to him. The KM 55 may suit his needs, but even if I my self were a home owner I'd go with the 90.
Did you read the post? I WAS TALKING ABOUT THE SHORT REACH IS TOO SHORT FOR 10 FEET, NOT THE STIHL!!! The Stihl shorter one might or might not reach 10 feet. I would consider the long one instead of the Stihl short one.

Even the shorter Stihl attachment is too long for regular hedge trimming compare to the true short reach like Shindaiwa or Husqvarna have.

Read my post again, where did I say anything bad about Stihl. That was just my opinion on the kind of attachments options of different brands. Or is it just you are too sensitive to protect Stihl no matter what? Read the post again. All I said was Stihl don't have a true short reach articulate hedge attachment. Can you dispute this? Neither does Echo, does that make Echo bad? Which part you don't understand that I did say Stihl have more attachment option than Shindaiwa? That I have the Shindaiwa just because I want the true short reach.

I don't need your respect. You can keep it. I won't be like you just everything for one brand no matter what. I am just being objective on the attachment option taylor to the poster's need, nothing more.

Take your blinders off, I had said that I changed my mind after more experience about different brands and particular Stihl did improve the 4Mix. I have been very objective and mainly talk about options. In fact, after experience and reading about the newer 2 cycles having so much starting and warmup problem AND PLUS my Shindaiwa C4 blower have been the more reliable piece and not given me any problem at all for over 2 years make me take a new second look on those hybrid engine all together.

So beat it!!!

Back to the options, every brands have different option on attachments. It is more important to look for the attachment option you need than to just look at the brand. Shindaiwa don't have much option other than the true short reach articulate hedge trimmer. I think both Stihl and Echo have better option less the short reach. Both of them has extension that give extra 3' of extension which if you ever get a pole pruner attachment is vitally important........Look I am actually saying good things about Stihl and Echo!!!

Even about the single ring Echo engine, there are enough people here love the SRM265, and it has been in service for over two years already. Chances are they are good engine also. I just like two rings over one!!! That's just me. But just like all new 2 cycles, you need warmup to pull full rpm, and that is where the hybrid engines like 4Mix and C4 really shine. And both Shindaiwa and Stihl are working hard to improve them already. They could be the engine of the future!!!

Last edited by Alan0354; 02-14-2010 at 07:36 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-15-2010, 09:27 AM
intravino intravino is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 23
Quote:
I hope this makes things a little easier for you
Thanks Rob, it does make it easier. I don't understand at 100%, the short and long length attachment. But I can tell you this: I'm 100 % sure that I want articulated head. I own a couple of electric trimmers that are not ideal but can do the job at lower heights. I am really feed-up of going up and down on a ladder.


Quote:
Echo don't have short reach articulate hedge attachment either but they have dethatcher attachment that nobody else have. So really come down to what you want in the future.

Regarding 2 rings, I'd take a two rings any time of the day. Echo is single ring, both Stihl and Shindaiwa are two rings. I don't know about the new Stihl HomeScaper series. It used to be a two rings engine which is very good, but I think they change to a new engine, so I don't know.
Thanks Alan, I just don't want to do the mistake of getting something that I will have to change in a few years.
__________________
Intravino
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-15-2010, 01:27 PM
Alan0354's Avatar
Alan0354 Alan0354 is offline
LawnSite Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: San Jose, Ca.
Posts: 4,458
These are the link for the multi tool systems you mentioned. Take a look at the attachment option available. Shindaiwa has the least amount but it is the only one have true short reach articulate hedge trimmer attachment. Short reach means the attachment do not add any extra length to the shaft. Usually the power unit already have about 29" of shaft. The attachment attach at the end of the shaft. For a short reach, the gear box of the articulate head is right at the end of the shaft and the cutting blade right after the gear box. So this is the shortest configuration. Both Echo and Stihl have certain length of shaft on the attachment. This mean the total shaft length is quite a bit longer than the shaft of the power unit alone.

I have the Shindaiwa M242. I can pretty much grab the gear box while trimming to get good control. With the extra 10+", I don't know how well you can control for everyday trimming. I just don't know, all I want is to tell you the option. But Shindaiwa don't have 3' extension shaft which make it quite useless for pole pruning attachment. So you have to weight it out yourself, nobody can make this decision for you. I can only tell you that I did a lot of thinking at the time and I decided that the short reach is the most important of it all and I settle with using a manual pole saw instead!!! For home owner, brand is not very important as all three are commercial brands. Again I try to be objective and also as you can see, brands can stirl up a lot of emotion!!!


http://www.shindaiwa.com/usa/en/prod...ools/index.php

http://www.stihlusa.com/multitask/accessories.html

http://www.echo-usa.com/prods_list.a...gory=PROATTACH
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1998 - 2012, LawnSite.comô - Moose River Media
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:40 PM.

Page generated in 0.09827 seconds with 7 queries