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Old 08-29-2011, 06:18 PM
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americanlawn americanlawn is offline
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granular late fall fert - need advice

44-0-0 25% XCU ?

25-0-0 (35% XCU + 65% Aluminum sulfate) ?

46-0-0 granular urea (a) ?

46-0-0 prilled urea (b) ?

(a) (b) what't's the difference?

I realize that fall is the best time to "load up" with heavy rates of N in the upper Midwest, and we need to order more fert now, so I'd like opinions from users.

Is the A sulfate truly beneficial in late fall (winterizer), or is urea the best bang for the buck?

I kinda need an answer within 3 days. Thanks very much in advance.
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Old 08-29-2011, 08:05 PM
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None of the above.
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Old 08-29-2011, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by phasthound View Post
None of the above.
Slow Dog

I believe that is his grub control preventative.
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Old 08-31-2011, 06:31 PM
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americanlawn americanlawn is offline
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the winner is phasthound

Thanks Barry, you are certainly correct. I posted this to see if folks were paying attention, but you saw right through it. Who applies aluminum? ("ammonium" sulfate would have been closer to the fact).

While ammonium sulfate may be beneficial during the early spring to give turf a "kick", it's kinda a waste of money during fall & late fall in the upper Midwest IMO.

Granular vs prilled: both can be spread. Prilled is a higher quality/more expensive product. I remember seeing granular urea for just $6.00 per 50 pound bag in the mid 80's.

I prefer some slow release N before winter, cuz even during heavy snow cover, the 4 inch soil temp often stays above 32 degrees. Rhizomes of Kentucky bluegrass can still be somewhat active during even the coldest of winters depending upon several factors (soil type, soil temps, sun exposure, etc, etc).

Iowa State University (not the University of Iowa) has done very extensive research regarding the use, formulation, rates, and timing of nitrogen application. We try to keep in tune regarding their studies. I also appreciate the input we receive from Agrium, Pro-AP, and a couple others. (all are lawnsite.com sponsors)


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None of the above.
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  #5  
Old 08-31-2011, 06:37 PM
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fl-landscapes fl-landscapes is offline
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Originally Posted by americanlawn View Post
Thanks Barry, you are certainly correct. I posted this to see if folks were paying attention, but you saw right through it. Who applies aluminum? ("ammonium" sulfate would have been closer to the fact).

While ammonium sulfate may be beneficial during the early spring to give turf a "kick", it's kinda a waste of money during fall & late fall in the upper Midwest IMO.

Granular vs prilled: both can be spread. Prilled is a higher quality/more expensive product. I remember seeing granular urea for just $6.00 per 50 pound bag in the mid 80's.

Phew.....I thought someone hijacked your computer or you lost your marbles. Most of us used the thread to discuss fall fertilizing so it served a purpose beyond the gag anyhow.

I prefer some slow release N before winter, cuz even during heavy snow cover, the 4 inch soil temp often stays above 32 degrees. Rhizomes of Kentucky bluegrass can still be somewhat active during even the coldest of winters depending upon several factors (soil type, soil temps, sun exposure, etc, etc).

Iowa State University (not the University of Iowa) has done very extensive research regarding the use, formulation, rates, and timing of nitrogen application. We try to keep in tune regarding their studies. I also appreciate the input we receive from Agrium, Pro-AP, and a couple others. (all are lawnsite.com sponsors)
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  #6  
Old 08-31-2011, 06:52 PM
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Larry

I got a call today about the Bold Print above. The LCO was asking what was the differences. When I explained that the question wasn't even ask correctly, he Immediately knew the answer. Your Question should have read What is the Difference in Spreadable and soluble or spray-able Urea??

Granules are in fact Prill, or the same thing in the case of 46-0-0 Urea. The Granules or prill size of Spread-able Urea are larger so they weight more and can be thrown by a broad cast wheel of a Rotary spreader. Soluble or Spray-able Urea has much smaller Prill or Granule size almost powder like so it dissolves quicker. It is possible to Spray Spreadable Granules/prill But it takes longer to melt the Granules. It is possible to spread Spray-able Urea but look out for stripping because the Granules are not heavy enough to spread outward.

I explained that the question wasn't even ask correctly,

Larry this brings up an other point. When you first came to Lawnsite you were Mr Answer Man. True not always the correct answer but you pounded your chest and told everyone how big your business was and how you had Worked for the Duke Bros Etc so you were the 30 year Go To man.

Lately You have been asking questions any newbie on the Block should Know. So my question is are you trying act Dumb or Do you need to see a doctor about some kind of Memory Loss possibly cause by Pesticide poisoning like Dursban Twitch????


..


Larry

I am not so sure Slow Dog was the only one to spot the stupidity. The Grub thread sure didn't do a lot for your credibility. My question about your possible problems from Pesticide poisoning (Dursban Twitch, etc) was Real. It comes from following your post over several years.


..
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  #7  
Old 09-01-2011, 06:18 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by americanlawn View Post
... I prefer some slow release N before winter, cuz even during heavy snow cover, the 4 inch soil temp often stays above 32 degrees. Rhizomes of Kentucky bluegrass can still be somewhat active during even the coldest of winters depending upon several factors (soil type, soil temps, sun exposure, etc, etc).

Iowa State University (not the University of Iowa) has done very extensive research regarding the use, formulation, rates, and timing of nitrogen application. ...
"... cuz even during heavy snow cover..."

That quote is what I was referring to in my question about photosynthesis... It is true that the ground will stay warm all winter and the grass green all winter under the snow, but the only thing feeding on these slow release N prills is snow mold... once the snow is gone, whether in Jan or March the grass dies to a brown mulch until soil temps rise to 50 degrees or so...

I still have issue with my extension offices recommending Thanksgiving applications of N... Sounds like Iowa has convinced you of the same idea... I would like them to give the reason WHY rather than some anecdotal notion of it workig better... all they really have is an early Spring N boost from left over winterizer...

What does that do for real thatch???
What does that do to root growth?
What does it do for all those stored carbs? wastes them is what it does and produces lots of top growth while starving roots...

They are not giving logical, rational consistant botany here...

We all understand that our educational system is lacking... I would like them to prove their point and regain their credibility...
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  #8  
Old 09-01-2011, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by americanlawn View Post
Granular vs prilled: both can be spread. Prilled is a higher quality/more expensive product. I remember seeing granular urea for just $6.00 per 50 pound bag in the mid 80's.

Larry

I am sorry but I believe you post more Misinformation than the average Member. Prill Towers are what make 46-0-0 urea granules that referred to as Prill. All Prilled elements in a Fertilizer Blend are in fact Granules, but all granules are not made by a Prill Tower and therefore are not Prill. You talk about Granular when in fact Urea is technically a Prill that is made by sucking Nitrogen out of the Air and Heating it to very high temperatures with Natural Gas and cooling it. That is basic operation of a Prill Tower. That is why the Price of Natural Gas and Urea are related

Talk about Prill being High Quality is a falsehood also. In the late 1990's Russia with it's vast Supply of Natural gas was shipping 46-0-0 to the USA and I was buying 50 pound bags for $ 5.00. The Russia Prill had black specs in it instead of being pure white or slightly clear. When dissolved in a tank it left a small residue from those black specs. Therefore Prill is NOT a Higher Quality than any other form of Granules in a Fertilizer Bag.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prill
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  #9  
Old 08-29-2011, 10:24 PM
pieperlc pieperlc is online now
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Nothing will be cheaper than the urea, however ammonium sulfate is a more effective way to deliver nitrogen. I'm leaning towards going to a ammonium sulfate fert this fall. Why put down xcu in late october/november?

Quote:
Originally Posted by americanlawn View Post
44-0-0 25% XCU ?

25-0-0 (35% XCU + 65% Aluminum sulfate) ?

46-0-0 granular urea (a) ?

46-0-0 prilled urea (b) ?

(a) (b) what't's the difference?

I realize that fall is the best time to "load up" with heavy rates of N in the upper Midwest, and we need to order more fert now, so I'd like opinions from users.

Is the A sulfate truly beneficial in late fall (winterizer), or is urea the best bang for the buck?

I kinda need an answer within 3 days. Thanks very much in advance.
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  #10  
Old 08-29-2011, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by pieperlc View Post
Nothing will be cheaper than the urea, however ammonium sulfate is a more effective way to deliver nitrogen. I'm leaning towards going to a ammonium sulfate fert this fall. Why put down xcu in late october/november?
pieperlc

Is that the Recommendation of the U of Iowa??? Larry always used the U of I programs. I am surprised after 30 years in the business he has to asking here what to use. I am even more surprised he suggest using slow release nitrogen.

BTW I am not a Cool season Guy so while I feel I know the answer. I will not respond because I am not experienced in that area.


Larry

Here is a Pesticide 101 thread about Nitrogen that might give you some of the training you obviously need from your question. I am sorry but the thread was never finished or were the other element thread ever started. But that is a long story that can't be told right now. BTW I purposely make error in that thread to see who is following it and will correct those error. Tims turf does a nice job here also.

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=44636



..
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"TG doesn't give a rats ass about being "Responsible" as long as sales/production quotas are met. That's it in a nutshell. A recipe for disaster IMO." Ted Putnam 2/28/14

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"As Americans you have the right to be stupid." John Kerry

"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid.” John Wayne.
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