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Old 05-27-2012, 10:12 AM
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phasthound phasthound is online now
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Soil Health

Take a moment to read this:

http://soils.usda.gov/sqi/management...h_tech_doc.pdf
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Old 05-28-2012, 10:26 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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This is an Ag related article, but it the context of lawn soils the following idea(from article) would also apply:

**"If crop nutrients are applied to the soil in excess, plants will not develop associations with soil organisms that help them acquire water and nutrients. After the “party is over” and the synthetic fertilizer is gone, the plants are left “high and dry” with few to no soil factory workers to help them access water and nutrients for the remainder of the growing season. The plants then give up valuable energy (sugars) in an attempt to make connections with microbes mid-way through the growing season when the plant should be putting that energy into flowering and seed development to produce a harvestable yield. By applying excess fertilizer, particularly nitrogen or phosphorus, we create plants that are very inefficient as they try to function without the support system of the soil with which they evolved."**

My concern would be, that if there was not enough SOM for the bacteria to work with, where would the 'nutrients cycle from'???
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
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Old 05-28-2012, 11:23 AM
Duekster Duekster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
This is an Ag related article, but it the context of lawn soils the following idea(from article) would also apply:

**"If crop nutrients are applied to the soil in excess, plants will not develop associations with soil organisms that help them acquire water and nutrients. After the “party is over” and the synthetic fertilizer is gone, the plants are left “high and dry” with few to no soil factory workers to help them access water and nutrients for the remainder of the growing season. The plants then give up valuable energy (sugars) in an attempt to make connections with microbes mid-way through the growing season when the plant should be putting that energy into flowering and seed development to produce a harvestable yield. By applying excess fertilizer, particularly nitrogen or phosphorus, we create plants that are very inefficient as they try to function without the support system of the soil with which they evolved."**

My concern would be, that if there was not enough SOM for the bacteria to work with, where would the 'nutrients cycle from'???
On a lawn we mulch the grass and feed it with a mix on a regular basis as described above.
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Old 05-28-2012, 12:42 PM
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phasthound phasthound is online now
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Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post

My concern would be, that if there was not enough SOM for the bacteria to work with, where would the 'nutrients cycle from'???
Well, to keep the party going, add more organic matter. In addition, much of the food for microbes is exuded by plant roots. In fact, the exudate will favor the microbes that are beneficial to the plant. Roots constantly slough of dead cells which add to SOM.

Microbes also are responsible for mining nutrients from the inorganic parent material of the soil. Mycorrhizea are critical for unlocking P and transporting it to plant roots. Certain nitrifying bacteria extract N from the air in soil pores and make it plant available.

The human part of the puzzle is to use practices which enhance rather than harm the process that builds soil health.
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Old 09-14-2012, 03:33 AM
timturf timturf is offline
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[QUOTE=phasthound;4426400]Well, to keep the party going, add more organic matter. In addition, much of the food for microbes is exuded by plant roots. In fact, the exudate will favor the microbes that are beneficial to the plant. Roots constantly slough of dead cells which add to SOM.

Microbes also are responsible for mining nutrients from the inorganic parent material of the soil. Mycorrhizea are critical for unlocking P and transporting it to plant roots. Certain nitrifying bacteria extract N from the air in soil pores and make it plant available.

The human part of the puzzle is to use practices which enhance rather than harm the process that builds soil health.[/QUOTE]

Couldn't agree more
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Old 05-29-2012, 11:19 PM
Skipster Skipster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
This is an Ag related article, but it the context of lawn soils the following idea(from article) would also apply:

**"If crop nutrients are applied to the soil in excess, plants will not develop associations with soil organisms that help them acquire water and nutrients. After the “party is over” and the synthetic fertilizer is gone, the plants are left “high and dry” with few to no soil factory workers to help them access water and nutrients for the remainder of the growing season. The plants then give up valuable energy (sugars) in an attempt to make connections with microbes mid-way through the growing season when the plant should be putting that energy into flowering and seed development to produce a harvestable yield. By applying excess fertilizer, particularly nitrogen or phosphorus, we create plants that are very inefficient as they try to function without the support system of the soil with which they evolved."**

My concern would be, that if there was not enough SOM for the bacteria to work with, where would the 'nutrients cycle from'???
The article cited by the OP seems to be little more than an opinion piece and has little scientific background. If you're reading something without references following it, its nothign more than one person's opinion -- not scientific fact.

While the OP's article does a good job highlighting some practices that are important in production ag systems, many of those practices are detrimental in turf systems. That is why I hate it when organic fert salesmen tell me how good their stuff is for growign corn and soybeans. I'm growing lawns -- not corn and soybeans! If the salesman can't adjust between the differences in the two cropping systems, he surely doesn't know anything abotu my business.

Anyhow, if you're going to talk about soil "health" and soil microbial interactions, you need to learn from the experts. Please read the article linked here:

http://aggie-turf.tamu.edu/files-200...ticle-2005.pdf

Although the piece talks mostly about sandy soils vs native soils in athletic field management, the last paragraph is especially relevant to this discussion:

"So, do you need to add “beneficial microbes” to the soil to make it function properly? That’s highly unlikely! Many studies of turfgrasses, whether in sports fields, golf courses or home lawns, have shown that soil microbial populations are not compromised by normal management practices. The best thing that you can do to “manage” the soil microbes under your care is to grow a healthy stand of turf and pay close attention to the condition of the soil or root zone supporting it. Paying attention to the agronomics of grass culture, fertilization,aerification, drainage, etc., will insure that the microbial populations are not being adversely affected!"
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Old 05-30-2012, 09:04 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Originally Posted by Skipster View Post
The article cited by the OP seems to be little more than an opinion piece and has little scientific background. If you're reading something without references following it, its nothign more than one person's opinion -- not scientific fact.

While the OP's article does a good job highlighting some practices that are important in production ag systems, many of those practices are detrimental in turf systems. That is why I hate it when organic fert salesmen tell me how good their stuff is for growign corn and soybeans. I'm growing lawns -- not corn and soybeans! If the salesman can't adjust between the differences in the two cropping systems, he surely doesn't know anything abotu my business.

Anyhow, if you're going to talk about soil "health" and soil microbial interactions, you need to learn from the experts. Please read the article linked here:

http://aggie-turf.tamu.edu/files-200...ticle-2005.pdf

Although the piece talks mostly about sandy soils vs native soils in athletic field management, the last paragraph is especially relevant to this discussion:

"So, do you need to add “beneficial microbes” to the soil to make it function properly? That’s highly unlikely! Many studies of turfgrasses, whether in sports fields, golf courses or home lawns, have shown that soil microbial populations are not compromised by normal management practices. The best thing that you can do to “manage” the soil microbes under your care is to grow a healthy stand of turf and pay close attention to the condition of the soil or root zone supporting it. Paying attention to the agronomics of grass culture, fertilization,aerification, drainage, etc., will insure that the microbial populations are not being adversely affected!"
Thanks for posting the relevant paragragh for review, as I'm heading out the door soon...

I too wonder about the bringing in a microherd to an area, since the microherd that is there already thrives for a reason... I like what the article says about: "The best thing that you can do to “manage” the soil microbes under your care is to grow a healthy stand of turf and pay close attention to the condition of the soil or root zone supporting it."

Looking into the soil and observing the conditions around the roots will tell me more in a minute than all the reading of symptoms in research papers...
The real question is in regards to that paragragh is: What is the best management practice of the tur?f??
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
*
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  #8  
Old 05-30-2012, 09:51 PM
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phasthound phasthound is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skipster View Post
The article cited by the OP seems to be little more than an opinion piece and has little scientific background. If you're reading something without references following it, its nothign more than one person's opinion -- not scientific fact.
I think the United States Department of Agriculture Natural Resources Conservation Service is a credible source with at least some science background. The article is not an opinion piece and was written for the public. Yes it should have cited sources, that doesn't mean they don't exist.

The scientific body of soil microbiology has been growing rapidly in the last 20 years. There is much to learn. What was considered scientific fact in many areas of science 20 years ago has fallen by the wayside.
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The nation that destroys its soil destroys itself.
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Old 05-31-2012, 12:01 PM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skipster View Post
The article cited by the OP seems to be little more than an opinion piece and has little scientific background. If you're reading something without references following it, its nothign more than one person's opinion -- not scientific fact.

While the OP's article does a good job highlighting some practices that are important in production ag systems, many of those practices are detrimental in turf systems. That is why I hate it when organic fert salesmen tell me how good their stuff is for growign corn and soybeans. I'm growing lawns -- not corn and soybeans! If the salesman can't adjust between the differences in the two cropping systems, he surely doesn't know anything abotu my business.

Anyhow, if you're going to talk about soil "health" and soil microbial interactions, you need to learn from the experts. Please read the article linked here:

http://aggie-turf.tamu.edu/files-200...ticle-2005.pdf
Amusing. You have replaced one "opinion" piece with another. The above piece is not referenced at all, it merely lists a very small handful of sources for "Further reading." Nice to see you skip .....
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Old 05-31-2012, 12:58 PM
Skipster Skipster is offline
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Originally Posted by Kiril View Post
Amusing. You have replaced one "opinion" piece with another. The above piece is not referenced at all, it merely lists a very small handful of sources for "Further reading." Nice to see you skip .....
The linked paper was a redux version of a peer-reviewed paper that was made easier to read for the general public. All the conclusion in the paper were taken from the author's own work and the work listed in the "further reading" section.

Still, no one has produced research to the contrary ....
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