Soil Conditions Matter???

[Smallaxe]

Should we consider different strategies for building the excellenct soil structure we'd like to see, in accordance with,,, different soil textures???

Or,,, can we just go ahead and apply any of the long list of products(organic) and eventually we get the soil we want regardless of where we started from???

Organic product salesmen give us the impression that it is just that simple, only it takes time...

For those who would bash, then let's first answer the Y/N part of the question ,,, THEN,,, move on toward the Why/Whynot,,, part of the question,,, THEN,,, go ahead and bash, if you must... but this is a serious topic that REQUIRES serious thought...

[lawnsquadnc]

Google and look at the soil survey for the area you are working to find out what you need to use to help the soil. If its your on property you could get a soil sample done.

[Smallaxe]

Originally Posted by lawnsquadnc

Google and look at the soil survey for the area you are working to find out what you need to use to help the soil. If its your on property you could get a soil sample done.

Thinking more along the lines of building SOM and soil structure, but I have some lawns that are sandier than others and need to adjust accordingly... at least I believe I do...
Recycling the clippings helps all of them but that goes only so far, and I've even gotten to the point that additional compost doesn't make a big difference anymore either...

I've read a claim about soils structure under turf doesn't change easily and perhaps not at all, but I would like to see better perculation on some lawns and better water retention in others...

Therefore wondering if anyone out there noticed if any changes were taking place in the soils in regards to product used... corn meal for exa., does it build structures in sandy soils??? I might give that a try this coming year to increase water holding capacity on one sandy lot... there's compost there already, but still unimpressive...

[heritage]

Grass types that produce more thatch. Some chickin do doo pellets. Can we make it any more simple???

[Smallaxe]

Originally Posted by heritage

Grass types that produce more thatch. Some chickin do doo pellets. Can we make it any more simple???

Thatch is a tight dense mat of living and dead roots and stems that grow above the soil... not a desirable scenario at all...
On the other hand,,, soils that perculate adequately, allowing your water soluable ferts to work their way deeper into the rootzone is going to increase the mass of deeper roots, which means a lot better scenario...
Would you agree with that? or do you intentionally grow surface thatch???

Nothing wrong with chicken poo,,, but what does it do for soil structure???

[turfmd101]

Downward and expanding root development ability, is disabled by thatch which has caused uptake disruption in the poor root tissue sitting in the thatch. During drought conditions. Even with deep roots, water and nutrients trying to enter the plant are dismantled for proper feeding, it functions but it as if you were trying to eat while being CHOKED.
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[heritage]

The chicken poo pellets would add N.

The N would help stimulate the microbes that would work on breaking down the thatch/Carbon.

[Smallaxe]

Originally Posted by turfmd101

Downward and expanding root development ability, is disabled by thatch which has caused uptake disruption in the poor root tissue sitting in the thatch. During drought conditions. Even with deep roots, water and nutrients trying to enter the plant are dismantled for proper feeding, it functions but it as if you were trying to eat while being CHOKED.
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That's a pretty good mental picture in describing why thatch, once it starts continually build and eventually, ALL the food and water is consumed at the surface...

How do you think that your irrigation strategy, of irrigating ONLY when water stressed,,, affects the development of the 'thatch' as described in the IL ext. article???
And better yet,,, do you believe that this type of thatch can be remediated, by switching to your irrigation strategy???

[heritage]

Improve soils low in organic matter with topdressed organic matter.

Accelerate the breakdown of long chain carbon with nitrogen.


Don't you think chicken poo pellets add both nitrogen and organic matter?


Never had an issue in the past with Thatch thicker than 1/2 inch here in my neck of the woods, so I will not go into the issues that we do not have.

I have seen lawns here with less than 1/2 inch of thatch all too often and believe too much N had broken down the Carbon in the soils resulting with too low levels ie. C/N ratios in favor of N. Not sustainable.........Remember the "Dust Bowl". (Thanks Joel from Earthworks)

The Addition of organic matter in the form of Chicken poo or bio-solids can address the accelerated breakdown of C from too much N.

Keep C/N ratios in balance.


Soil conditions DO matter.

[turfmd101]

Originally Posted by Smallaxe

That's a pretty good mental picture in describing why thatch, once it starts continually build and eventually, ALL the food and water is consumed at the surface...

How do you think that your irrigation strategy, of irrigating ONLY when water stressed,,, affects the development of the 'thatch' as described in the IL ext. article???
And better yet,,, do you believe that this type of thatch can be remediated, by switching to your irrigation strategy???

It's all based on wilt, more than drought. Wilt is the start of drought. Drought grows roots. The deepth of the roots with healthy tissued feeders which have hopefully developed during spring VS depth of soil dryness dimensionalized because, soil does not dry out horizontally, downward, evenly. That with root depth dimensionalized dictate, which areas will show drought first. The shallow ones and so fourth. When 40% to 50% of a 100% become wilted. There's your shallow root area. Work on them. Catch up to the other 60% not wilted yet, to become equal in wilt. Then it will apply best. Rules do apply! You will get some overwatering. But that will disappear. Controlled with rain fall. MANUALLY! The times will become longer between intervals and mowing will effect. But this, UN spoiled way gives strength,,, without extra food.

St. Aug thatch, would be. Seville, any dwarf. Variety. Ooollllddd St. Aug lawns and mostly shady areas. These prime areas favor the CHOKER TISSUE issues with wilt sooner than soil conditions would dictate. Overwatering can also cause CTI NEGATIVE EFFECTS.

Sanding with white builder type sand, brings root to plant soil contact. Only way to prolong drought in any scenario.

IMHO, N applied to dwarf varietys of ST. Aug,,, WILL CREATE CTI. Minimal, minimal N. OK. Mostly MOP w/ minor. Or the ultimate MILORGANITE!
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