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Old 02-25-2013, 06:23 PM
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Kaw 13HP Twin Cycl. Starts Hard

FH381V AS29-R. The machine doesn't want to start after sitting over nite. If I put a small squik of quick start away it goes. And it will start on almost the first pull the rest of day. New plugs, new gas filter, valves set, carb overhaul last year.

As an experiment I shut off the gas from the tank and let the machine run until it died. The fuel filter was on the pump side of the cut off and it was not sucked dry when engine stopped Then I opened up the fuel cutoff and the machine wouldn't start until I hit it with quick start. I am leaning heavy to fuel pump, am I correct? Unit is going into fourth year. Both spark plug coil replaced last year.
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Old 02-25-2013, 06:32 PM
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Ed,

The fuel filter will not empty because you closed off any way for the pump to suck any air, It's got to get air to empty a filter. The fact it wouldn't start after you reopened the valve is because you ran the float bowl empty, Otherwise it takes a half dozen pulls to re-fill the bowl for start-up.

Check the choke butterfly and make sure it's closing FULLY when choke is applied.....
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Old 02-25-2013, 06:53 PM
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Ed,

The fuel filter will not empty because you closed off any way for the pump to suck any air, It's got to get air to empty a filter. The fact it wouldn't start after you reopened the valve is because you ran the float bowl empty, Otherwise it takes a half dozen pulls to re-fill the bowl for start-up.

Check the choke butterfly and make sure it's closing FULLY when choke is applied.....
Ok that all makes sense. The chokea is dead closed absolutely necessary
on this unit. I can pull until I get tired and it will not start. One little bitty squirk of ether and away she goes. And I can shut if off and on at intervals of about 10 minutes and it starts right up. But after 12 hours no startee. Fuel filter is new.
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Old 02-25-2013, 07:47 PM
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Take a look inside the spark plug boots and see if there's any rust or corrosion.....
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Old 02-25-2013, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Restrorob View Post
Take a look inside the spark plug boots and see if there's any rust or corrosion.....
I will look but this unit had the spark plugs replaced and I use a diaelectric when I put the wires back on. The wires are less than a year old but I will take another look. At least one side should fire.

I am hoping you don't suggest I go into that carb. It has that little hidden chamber that you have to pry the lid off then glue it back. I don't like gluing inside a carb. By the way I checked to be sure it wasn't leaking fuel into the carb overnite but it was dry as a bone.
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Old 02-25-2013, 09:25 PM
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It has that little hidden chamber that you have to pry the lid off then glue it back.

Huh, I've never heard of such or done anything like that ?

Is it shown in this pic ?



How many hours are on this engine..... Guestimate ?

There's a few things that could be causing this, Low/weak compression (not pulling enough fuel when cold), Slightly restricted main circuit in the carb, Weak spark when cold even though the coils were replaced. Leaking intake manifold gaskets, It's just going to be a process of elimination until you find the culprit.....
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Old 02-26-2013, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Restrorob View Post
Take a look inside the spark plug boots and see if there's any rust or corrosion.....
Another thing to check is the airgaps on the coils...
If the coils are too close to the flywheel...you will have a weak spark when the engine is cold..
When the engine warms up...the engine expands the airgaps from .002 to .004.....allowing the engine to start every time...
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Old 02-26-2013, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by piston slapper View Post
Another thing to check is the airgaps on the coils...
If the coils are too close to the flywheel...you will have a weak spark when the engine is cold..
When the engine warms up...the engine expands the airgaps from .002 to .004.....allowing the engine to start every time...
I just learned something new....
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Old 02-26-2013, 10:39 PM
herler herler is online now
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Hard to start = Spark plug Gap too wide.

Guaranteed you forgot to set it when you installed them, or you set it too wide.
It's all too easy, many a times have I thought I set them right but upon re-checking they came out to some way open setting, if what you are saying from your description I'd guess yours are probably .040 or wider.
That's why it's hard to start, but with a shot of ether it fires and then runs fine after.

And I know the manual calls for .030 but that's the problem, just a tiny miss on the adjustment gauge and you're .035 or worse, then your engine has brand new plugs yet it won't start.

Set those things to .025
Maybe get a new gauge, too.

Last edited by herler; 02-26-2013 at 10:45 PM.
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Old 10-04-2013, 07:08 PM
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I brought the unit into the shop, will not start without quick start. Put in new plugs. You can see condition of one plug. No doubt it is using oil. Swapped out carburetor and fuel pump, no difference. Pulled top off checked gap on coils good. Intake gaskets seem okay.

I am guessing valves not closing, but the plug on one side didn't look bad. Why wouldn't it start on that cyclinder? Should I do leak test or just pull one of the heads.
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