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  #1  
Old 03-18-2013, 06:12 PM
cbass139 cbass139 is offline
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Retaining wall base

I have always used 3/4" stone base as my base for my walls and am curious to the differences and best methods and aggregate for wall base as I understand that 3/4" clean stone is acceptable... I can't wrap my head around it but looking for some thoughts as to 3/4" base vs 3/4" clean stone for walls and what process is used to use 3/4" clean stone as a wall base
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Old 03-18-2013, 07:31 PM
OUTLANDER OUTLANDER is offline
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NEVER
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Old 03-19-2013, 10:15 AM
cbass139 cbass139 is offline
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NEVER
Never what?
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Old 03-19-2013, 11:45 AM
OUTLANDER OUTLANDER is offline
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Never what?
never clean for your base. Only clean gravel for your drain field (backfill)......you dont want erosion qualities under your wall, or (base) what holds the wall. Clean has no compaction, and has voids....I've heard of some using fabric and all, but still its just not right. You dont want drainage under your wall, only behind it (controlled drainage)....#57 crusher is very good base
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Old 03-19-2013, 11:54 AM
cbass139 cbass139 is offline
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never clean for your base. Only clean gravel for your drain field (backfill)......you dont want erosion qualities under your wall, or (base) what holds the wall. Clean has no compaction, and has voids....I've heard of some using fabric and all, but still its just not right. You dont want drainage under your wall, only behind it (controlled drainage)....#57 crusher is very good base
That's what I thought.. Do some research.. It's acceptable???? but why?? I'm totally on board with you in the thought process but I can't see how the other way is ok! I preached the same and decided to look it up and was really thrown off!!
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Old 03-19-2013, 12:05 PM
OUTLANDER OUTLANDER is offline
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I know what you're saying....i just look at these opinions sometime like, why do what can work instead of what does work?..
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Old 03-19-2013, 06:32 PM
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DVS Hardscaper DVS Hardscaper is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OUTLANDER View Post
never clean for your base. Only clean gravel for your drain field (backfill)......you dont want erosion qualities under your wall, or (base) what holds the wall. Clean has no compaction, and has voids....I've heard of some using fabric and all, but still its just not right. You dont want drainage under your wall, only behind it (controlled drainage)....#57 crusher is very good base

Not sure where you obtained your knowledge, but what you wrote - AIN'T correct.

Number 1: Clean aggregate (#57) self compacts.

Number 2: It is PERFECTLY acceptable to use. Infact, if you look at most engineers specs you will see where they list for the base that you can use: a) Concrete. B) crusher run. C) #57. All 3 are acceptable.

Also - think of a french drain (dry well). A french drain consists of #57!!!! Because IT DRAINS!!!

So, if you think about it, you do not want water standing at the base of the wall. With that said - #57 clean is perfect because water can drain through it.

Ok, so there is probably someone reading this thinking "why would water collect at the base of the wall, what is this idiot DVS talking about?" Well - I have a buddy in Hinkley Ohio whom had a wall built by a decent size, busy, well known contractor. And that large, well known contractor turned out to be a contractor from He!!. And he built the wall with water collecting at the base. He used crusher run for the base and directed water to collect behind the wall! Had they at least used 3/4" clean - then maybe, just maybe, the water could drain.

Sometimes we use clean. Sometimes we use crusher run. Both are 110% acceptable. And we been building walls since 1997.



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Last edited by DVS Hardscaper; 03-19-2013 at 06:39 PM.
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Old 03-19-2013, 08:00 PM
cbass139 cbass139 is offline
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Originally Posted by DVS Hardscaper View Post



Not sure where you obtained your knowledge, but what you wrote - AIN'T correct.

Number 1: Clean aggregate (#57) self compacts.

Number 2: It is PERFECTLY acceptable to use. Infact, if you look at most engineers specs you will see where they list for the base that you can use: a) Concrete. B) crusher run. C) #57. All 3 are acceptable.

Also - think of a french drain (dry well). A french drain consists of #57!!!! Because IT DRAINS!!!

So, if you think about it, you do not want water standing at the base of the wall. With that said - #57 clean is perfect because water can drain through it.

Ok, so there is probably someone reading this thinking "why would water collect at the base of the wall, what is this idiot DVS talking about?" Well - I have a buddy in Hinkley Ohio whom had a wall built by a decent size, busy, well known contractor. And that large, well known contractor turned out to be a contractor from He!!. And he built the wall with water collecting at the base. He used crusher run for the base and directed water to collect behind the wall! Had they at least used 3/4" clean - then maybe, just maybe, the water could drain.

Sometimes we use clean. Sometimes we use crusher run. Both are 110% acceptable. And we been building walls since 1997.



.
I value your opinion I have read a lot of your posts... What do you use to determine which stone to use... I can not understand the concept and in order to sustain a good reputation I should. I understand using a crusher run base and drainage to redirect collecting water but would you pitch your subgrade to drain away and then install #57 creating a large French drain under the wall? Is using #57 stone preferred for smaller walls where drainage is not a huge necessity for added protection. Is #57 stone base used in conjunction with drainage behind wall... So many questions! I feel like a noob agian! Someone help me with this concept! I know a lot of others viewing are in the same boat as me.. I'm not afraid to say Im clueless to this concept of #57 as an srw base. Their has to be some methodology behind it.. Heads ... Tails... #57...cr8.... Just doesn't cut it for me haha
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Old 03-19-2013, 09:06 PM
OUTLANDER OUTLANDER is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DVS Hardscaper View Post



Not sure where you obtained your knowledge, but what you wrote - AIN'T correct.

Number 1: Clean aggregate (#57) self compacts.

Number 2: It is PERFECTLY acceptable to use. Infact, if you look at most engineers specs you will see where they list for the base that you can use: a) Concrete. B) crusher run. C) #57. All 3 are acceptable.

Also - think of a french drain (dry well). A french drain consists of #57!!!! Because IT DRAINS!!!

So, if you think about it, you do not want water standing at the base of the wall. With that said - #57 clean is perfect because water can drain through it.

Ok, so there is probably someone reading this thinking "why would water collect at the base of the wall, what is this idiot DVS talking about?" Well - I have a buddy in Hinkley Ohio whom had a wall built by a decent size, busy, well known contractor. And that large, well known contractor turned out to be a contractor from He!!. And he built the wall with water collecting at the base. He used crusher run for the base and directed water to collect behind the wall! Had they at least used 3/4" clean - then maybe, just maybe, the water could drain.

Sometimes we use clean. Sometimes we use crusher run. Both are 110% acceptable. And we been building walls since 1997.



.
hahahahahahaaaa so you're saying a wall should work like a french drain
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  #10  
Old 03-19-2013, 09:35 PM
OUTLANDER OUTLANDER is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DVS Hardscaper View Post



Not sure where you obtained your knowledge, but what you wrote - AIN'T correct.

Number 1: Clean aggregate (#57) self compacts.

Number 2: It is PERFECTLY acceptable to use. Infact, if you look at most engineers specs you will see where they list for the base that you can use: a) Concrete. B) crusher run. C) #57. All 3 are acceptable.

Also - think of a french drain (dry well). A french drain consists of #57!!!! Because IT DRAINS!!!

So, if you think about it, you do not want water standing at the base of the wall. With that said - #57 clean is perfect because water can drain through it.

Ok, so there is probably someone reading this thinking "why would water collect at the base of the wall, what is this idiot DVS talking about?" Well - I have a buddy in Hinkley Ohio whom had a wall built by a decent size, busy, well known contractor. And that large, well known contractor turned out to be a contractor from He!!. And he built the wall with water collecting at the base. He used crusher run for the base and directed water to collect behind the wall! Had they at least used 3/4" clean - then maybe, just maybe, the water could drain.

Sometimes we use clean. Sometimes we use crusher run. Both are 110% acceptable. And we been building walls since 1997.



.
first of all DVS its simple, i dont by into everything im told to sell...i dont build it unless i know its correct. It dont take a rocket scientist to know that river rock does not compact, and since it does not compact therfore it has drainage properties....now talk till you're blue in the face and you just make yourself sound like one of the guys you were talking about that dont even know much about building walls (and go ahead with what everyone else tells you is right, i guess).....answer me this, if its correct to backfill a wall with #57 for drainage (would that not (SELF)compact behind the wall then and prevent drainage as you said? WRONG!!.......and i'll tell you why. Because proper drainage behind a wall does not go all the way down to the base, and should actually be even above first course, then follow grade or (FLOW) away from the highest point to the lowest, if not daylighted.....and what good would that do to extend base of drainable properties wider than the block?...so daylighting would flow right back under the base..hahahahahaaa......and dont even go there with concrete as a base. Even engineers should know that limestone or concrete has no drainage properties and is asking for problems to the opposite extent. #57 crusher is perfect for its compaction as well as drainage indeed for any ground water to flow slowly...............but for all folks that do as they are told instead of using common sence. I imagine there could possibly be some applications where this would work, or i should say, make it work (i mean i could if i want....BUT I DONT PERIOD!!.........but i assure you there is a correct way to do everything
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