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  #1  
Old 02-26-2014, 09:28 AM
bobw bobw is online now
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Finding Sleeves

We do almost exclusively commercial installs on new construction sites (shopping centers, condo complexes, etc) and probably the biggest issue we face with irrigation is finding sleeves a year after they've been installed.

Typically, we install PVC sleeves well before buildings are started and they just lie under ground until we come back to do the installation. By then, the buildings are done, pavement and curbs are down..and all of our survey stakes have vanished.

Anybody have any ideas on how to simplify the issue? We have contemplated using GPS systems, but high cost and the specialized knowledge we'd need to have to use it make it unattractive.

Anyone use detectable tape along the sleeve? or locator balls/disks?

Once we're done our install, we don't care anymore as we'll have an as-built to work from, but when the sleeves go in, there are very few landmarks to measure off of (and we've tried...boy, have we tried)
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Old 02-26-2014, 10:01 AM
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Wet_Boots Wet_Boots is offline
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Some bright outfit is probably already selling lithium-battery-powered pingers for this sort of application.
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  #3  
Old 02-26-2014, 10:36 AM
bcg bcg is online now
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Stick a piece of rebar in the ground by them and use a metal detector?

I've always thought there should be some sort of marker stick in the concrete for sleeves, like the blue W that's put in to mark water lines sometimes.
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Old 02-26-2014, 11:06 AM
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1idejim 1idejim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobw View Post
We do almost exclusively commercial installs on new construction sites (shopping centers, condo complexes, etc) and probably the biggest issue we face with irrigation is finding sleeves a year after they've been installed.

Typically, we install PVC sleeves well before buildings are started and they just lie under ground until we come back to do the installation. By then, the buildings are done, pavement and curbs are down..and all of our survey stakes have vanished.

Anybody have any ideas on how to simplify the issue? We have contemplated using GPS systems, but high cost and the specialized knowledge we'd need to have to use it make it unattractive.

Anyone use detectable tape along the sleeve? or locator balls/disks?

Once we're done our install, we don't care anymore as we'll have an as-built to work from, but when the sleeves go in, there are very few landmarks to measure off of (and we've tried...boy, have we tried)
ELM discs and balls and require a specialized receiver. SoCal has one I believe. It's a Dynatel. Boots has one if you believe him. It's a mumble mumble.

You're going to pay somewhere in the neighborhood of $2300-3600 for a handheld gps system with software (I have been checking) so you had better have multiple uses for the gps unit.

I used to take a pic of the placement and give them to the GC/superintendent but in years past have placed a length of rebar inside the sleeve and cap or tape both ends. I have a magna-wand id1200 to locate them with.

Btw, the locator SoCal has is multipurpose, affordable and the markers are about $500 a case and reusable. The locator Boots has requires a vivid imagination and a flux capacitor, it's priceless.

Try the rebar inside the sleeve and a metal detector.
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Old 02-26-2014, 12:38 PM
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Wet_Boots Wet_Boots is offline
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Boots has one if you believe him. It's a mumble mumble.
Oh ye of little faith. I did get one hit from the eBay keyword search today, but it was for an album of opera music.
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Old 02-26-2014, 03:40 PM
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1idejim 1idejim is offline
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Oh ye of little faith. I did get one hit from the eBay keyword search today, but it was for an album of opera music.
It was a play on words Boots, nothing more, nothing less.
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Old 02-26-2014, 01:08 PM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1idejim View Post
ELM discs and balls and require a specialized receiver. SoCal has one I believe. It's a Dynatel. Boots has one if you believe him. It's a mumble mumble.

You're going to pay somewhere in the neighborhood of $2300-3600 for a handheld gps system with software (I have been checking) so you had better have multiple uses for the gps unit.

I used to take a pic of the placement and give them to the GC/superintendent but in years past have placed a length of rebar inside the sleeve and cap or tape both ends. I have a magna-wand id1200 to locate them with.

Btw, the locator SoCal has is multipurpose, affordable and the markers are about $500 a case and reusable. The locator Boots has requires a vivid imagination and a flux capacitor, it's priceless.

Try the rebar inside the sleeve and a metal detector.
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Just a note. A high end consumer grade unit will at least get you in the ball park, which might be enough in some cases.
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Old 02-26-2014, 07:30 PM
bobw bobw is online now
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Thanks for the ideas, please keep them coming.

Kiril, Jim - GPS signals come in two types, L1 and L2. The regular signals (L1) have about a 2m (6 1/2 ft) degree of accuracy, which is too much error factor for us. Almost all GPS receivers use regular. Survey grade survey devices use the L2 and can use RTK (a real time correction setup) to get down to 1/10m (4") accuracy. That's what I dream of. Unfortunately, you're looking 15-20K to set that up. Also, there is a pretty steep learning curve. A huge advantage is that you can go and do a very accurate As-Built quite easily. Jim - If you've found sub-decimeter accuracy for $3500, please, please let me know what you found....

Jim - The rebar method hasn't worked great in the past for us, too much interference, especially due to rebar in curbs. I really like the thought of the marker balls... any idea on what the locator cost would be about?
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Old 02-27-2014, 09:50 AM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Kiril, Jim - GPS signals come in two types, L1 and L2. The regular signals (L1) have about a 2m (6 1/2 ft) degree of accuracy, which is too much error factor for us. Almost all GPS receivers use regular. Survey grade survey devices use the L2 and can use RTK (a real time correction setup) to get down to 1/10m (4") accuracy. That's what I dream of. Unfortunately, you're looking 15-20K to set that up. Also, there is a pretty steep learning curve. A huge advantage is that you can go and do a very accurate As-Built quite easily. Jim - If you've found sub-decimeter accuracy for $3500, please, please let me know what you found....
Bob, you can find a used survey grade unit for less than 10K, they exist if you look around, but do you really need that kind of accuracy to map & (re)locate a few assets? It takes time to setup a RTK base station, probably as much time as it would for you to physically locate the asset once your in the ballpark with a mapping grade GPS unit and a GIS map of the site.

What I was trying to get at is your cheapo mapping grade GPS unit, while less than accurate, it still gets you in the ballpark for locating a handful of assets. Couple that with post processing and an accurate GIS map of the site and your ballpark just became much much smaller. Verify your assets with physical measurements (control points) transferred to your GIS map and you end up with an accurate map. Use open source GIS applications to reduce your overhead.

Certainly this requires some additional steps and more back end processing to generate a relatively accurate map of the site to be used for return visits, but it also won't cost you 20K+ for a survey grade unit either.

Last edited by Kiril; 02-27-2014 at 09:54 AM.
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Old 02-26-2014, 07:45 PM
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CAPT Stream Rotar CAPT Stream Rotar is offline
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Burry solenoids in the ground attatch them to a field wire and common?

field wire is left spare in clock?
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