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  #1  
Old 12-20-2004, 04:15 PM
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TClawn TClawn is offline
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ray, do you have anything for short cut lawns such as seashore paspalum?
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If you are believing the Truth, it will never let you down.

A student taking a philosophy class had a single question on his final: "What is courage?" The student wrote: "This", signed it, and turned it in.

in Iraq, ever since the beginning of time, men have fought for, land, power, money, and greed. but what are we fighting for? .... we are fighting for something new, we are fighting, because it is the right thing to do.
  #2  
Old 12-20-2004, 09:02 PM
Ray@LebanonTurf Ray@LebanonTurf is offline
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Short Cut Turf

TC;

We have an extensive array of products, many of which are mid-size or greens-grade. These would be appropriate for short cut turf. I am not all that familiar with maintenance practices for Seashore Paspalum. I will certainly do some research for you. Tell me more about what you are trying to achieve I'm sure I can point you to a product. How much nitrogen do you use per season, timing, are there any idiosyncrasies, how short is the cut, and so on.

Regards

Ray
  #3  
Old 12-20-2004, 10:01 PM
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TClawn TClawn is offline
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I need something that would promote good root growth while greening without really fast growth.
__________________
If you are believing the Truth, it will never let you down.

A student taking a philosophy class had a single question on his final: "What is courage?" The student wrote: "This", signed it, and turned it in.

in Iraq, ever since the beginning of time, men have fought for, land, power, money, and greed. but what are we fighting for? .... we are fighting for something new, we are fighting, because it is the right thing to do.
  #4  
Old 12-22-2004, 12:11 PM
Ray@LebanonTurf Ray@LebanonTurf is offline
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Good root growth, green color, without fast growth...

OK so you want the holy grail of turf fertilizers! Here are some general recommendations. If you tell me what you target rates of N, P, and K are I can get more specific.

First of all good root growth and shoot growth go hand in hand. The growth cycle of the turf and the time of year have more to do with where nutrients are utilized than the type or source of nutrient. For example, nitrogen applied to cool season grasses in the fall and winter contribute to increased root mass. There is a lot of physiology to explain this, but the simple answer is that cool temperatures offer ideal growing conditions during a time when the plant is not genetically programed to be producing top growth or seed heads. The photosynthetic engine is efficient and less leaf area is needed so much of the applied nitrogen is absorbed and stored as carbohydrates in the plant. Where does a turf plant store excess carbohydrates? Primarily in the roots. Hence more N = more roots. Of course there is a practical limit to how much can be used. From September to December you can apply as much at 2-3 Lbs./1000 cool season. Warm season grasses make hay when the sun shines so you need to feed more heavily in the summer months. If your soil is clay or prone to compaction don't forget to consider aeration to improve root density and depth.

Our MESA nitrogen has been the star performer for color response. This is because of the ammonium sulfate. You could probably write a thesis on why ammonium sulfate is such a great N source, (someone probably already has?). The Cliff Notes version is that you get ammoniacal N which is very readily available to the plant for fast response and soluble sulfur which is key for chlorophyll production (chlorophyll = green). There is also an acidification effect in the root zone which is very beneficial, (yet another thesis.) So MESA gives you great color, quick response, long feeding relative to SCU or quick release N, and less surge growth. MESA is the only controlled release nitrogen source on the market that has slow release ammonium sulfate combined with microbial released methylene ureas in a single homogeneous particle. Sounds complicated, but once you use it it becomes very simple, reasonable cost, no burn, quick response, screaming green, long lasting, less surge growth.

We have many products with MESA and other unique nutrient technologies. Here are some questions that will help me to narrow down your search and give you better guidance:
  • How much N do you want to apply per 1,000 square feet per application, per season?
  • Do you need a greens or mid-sized granule? (Usually only with very short tight turf canopy like golf greens and tees.)
  • Do you have any soil test results to give some guidance on P and K rates?
  • Do you need any micros? (Don't say iron unless you really have a deficiency!)
  • How many applications do you want to do per season and about when do you want to do them?
  • Are there any applications that you would like to do with combination products such as grub control or preemergents / postemergent weed controls?
  • Is there any need for high K or desire to use a 1:1 product during any part of the program?
  • Are the number of applications set in stone? Can you take advantage of cost savings if it would mean making fewer applications per seaon?

Sorry to answer a question with a barrage of questions but I don't want to give you a marginal recommendation.

Regards

Ray
  #5  
Old 12-22-2004, 05:44 PM
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TClawn TClawn is offline
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in hawaii the growing season is year round. so the numbers I give are for a 365 day season.

1. 4 pounds N per 1,000.

2. my grass is being cut at 3/4 inch with a tru-cut. so if thats what tees are cut at then yes.

3. no I don't but I'll tell you right now it VERY salty.

4. I don't believe that I NEED and micro nutrients but some would be nice.

5. the number of applications that I am currently doing are 8. but I am willing to change that.

6. I would like to control crab grass and kyllinga but the only thing that I know that works on kyllinga is manage. in the past I've been leary of using weed and feed products on seashore paspalum (paspalum vaginatum swarz) because in many parts of the country it is considered a weed.

7. I would like a 1 to 1 ratio of N to K.

8. no it really doesn't matter to me how many applications I do. as long as my lawn is looking good I'm for it.
__________________
If you are believing the Truth, it will never let you down.

A student taking a philosophy class had a single question on his final: "What is courage?" The student wrote: "This", signed it, and turned it in.

in Iraq, ever since the beginning of time, men have fought for, land, power, money, and greed. but what are we fighting for? .... we are fighting for something new, we are fighting, because it is the right thing to do.
  #6  
Old 12-27-2004, 09:34 AM
Ray@LebanonTurf Ray@LebanonTurf is offline
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Seashore Paspalum

TC;

I'm going to try to move our exchange on Seashore Paspalum to a new thread. I think I can do that? The reason is that there may be a bunch of people out there that would like to share advise or get a little on this topic. Right now our exchange is hidden in a thread called "Great Products". I would not read that if I were looking for info on Seashore Paspalum.

To clarify are you using 4 Lb. of N / 1,000 or 4 Lb. of total product? How many Lb. of N do you use in a complete growing season? Do you know if Seashore Paspalum is considered a cool or warm season (C3 VS C4) grass.

See you on the Seashore Paspalum thread, I hope.........

Regards

Ray
  #7  
Old 12-27-2004, 01:21 PM
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TClawn TClawn is offline
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right now I am using 4lb of n/1,000. a growing season is 365 days or one year.

seashore paspalum (paspalum vaginatum swarz) is a warm season grass. in the USA it is grown in lower texas, hawaii and florida. in fact, the university of florida has been studying the grass extensively due to it's high salt tolerance.

what they have found out: 1. seashore paspalum does best with a 1/3 salt water (20,000 ppm or ocean water) and 2/3 fresh water.

golf courses in florida and mexico have been watering there whole courses with water streight from the bay.

seashore is at it's best when mowed below 1.5 inches. above that it starts to "open up" giving weeds a better chance of germinating. over 1.5 inches faster thatch buildup has been observed.

right now I'm mowing my yard at 1 1/4 and am going to verticutt and topdress on thursday. I eventually want to get my yard down to 3/4.

thanks. chris.
__________________
If you are believing the Truth, it will never let you down.

A student taking a philosophy class had a single question on his final: "What is courage?" The student wrote: "This", signed it, and turned it in.

in Iraq, ever since the beginning of time, men have fought for, land, power, money, and greed. but what are we fighting for? .... we are fighting for something new, we are fighting, because it is the right thing to do.
  #8  
Old 01-04-2005, 02:47 PM
Ray@LebanonTurf Ray@LebanonTurf is offline
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Seashore Paspalum Recommendations

Chris;

Based on your input and Chad's I would look at some of our products that contain Expo slow release potassium. Apparently SP really likes K2O so this new technology may give you an edge. There are numerous products with Expo on our web site, some in combination with preemergents. To learn more about Expo go here:

Expo Information

To see specific products go to our home page and type 'expo' in the search box in the upper left corner of your screen:

LebanonTurf.com Home

Here are a few of the products that might interest me if I were in your shoes. There are many more choices but this is just a sampling:

NX-PRO 17-4-20 4.6 WIN 50% Expo
NX-PRO 21-2-14 46% MESA 62% Expo
Par Ex 16-0-25 7.1 WIN 64% Expo

Chad is recommending that you use lots of potassium. Do you know if you prefer or need KCL (potassium chloride) VS SOP (potassium sulfate)? SOP is generally considered the better source and is more costly. The lower salt index might not matter to SP but lack of chlorine and soluble sulfur could be big advantages.

At a cutting height of 1.0 to 1.5 I think you can use any fairway or midsized product. SP has a fairly coarse texture I think so you should be able to avoid the very expensive greens grades.

Regards

Ray
  #9  
Old 01-04-2005, 06:04 PM
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TClawn TClawn is offline
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Location: kihei, maui, hawaii
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Ray,
thanks so much for all your help. my brother is going to hawaii grower products today so I will have him either order some or get it if they have it in stock. thanks so much for all your help.

chris.
__________________
If you are believing the Truth, it will never let you down.

A student taking a philosophy class had a single question on his final: "What is courage?" The student wrote: "This", signed it, and turned it in.

in Iraq, ever since the beginning of time, men have fought for, land, power, money, and greed. but what are we fighting for? .... we are fighting for something new, we are fighting, because it is the right thing to do.
  #10  
Old 01-05-2005, 08:03 AM
Ray@LebanonTurf Ray@LebanonTurf is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Stewartsville, NJ
Posts: 57
Your Welcome!

Chris;

Our rep that handles HGP is Jeff Freeman, you can email him at jfreeman@lebsea.com if need be. You can also use the Contact Us page on our web site to send him a message.

I don't know what volume of product you are interested in, but HGP may be willing to bring in what you need on their next order if it is not something they already stock.

The products I showed you were only a few of the products available that would be appropriate. HGP may also have some ideas on maintaining SP. Since they are local you might want to ask them for their advise as well.

Regards

Ray
 

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