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  #41  
Old 12-09-2005, 07:14 PM
allinearth allinearth is offline
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Arkansas
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I use triple 13 when seeding usually about 50lbs per 700 gal. I always recomend customer follows up w/ another fert app in 30 days and offer the service if they prefer. Seems when we follow up w/ second app lawn does much better. I am considering pricing in second app automatically this year. What is your most common seed? We do primarily bermuda here.
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  #42  
Old 12-09-2005, 08:16 PM
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HydroRI HydroRI is offline
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muddstopper

I have read a lot of your posts both on Lawnsite and the Hydroseeding Forum and I know you are very knowledgeable with fertilizers. I have posted a link to the fertilizer I have been using in my slurry for the past year with great results. I just want your opinion on my choice and how much seed damage would occur with this fertilizer if any. Thanks

http://www.lebturf.com/index.cfm?fus...etails&pid=130
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  #43  
Old 12-09-2005, 10:59 PM
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muddstopper muddstopper is offline
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Without looking at the product my first response is that the fertilizer is good only if it contains the nutrients your soil needs first. Only way to find out what your soil needs is by doing a soil test and then developing a blend suitable for your seeding conditions.

After looking at the label a couple of things stand out. One, The K source is muriate of potash, a better choice could be a fertilizer containing sulfate of potash as the k source. Sop contain about half the salt of Mop. This doesn't mean your fertilizer isn't any good, just maybe not as good as it could be. Food for thought, most soils, but not all, in the USA already contain sufficient K in the soil for good plant growth. This K is derived from weathered mica and feldspar. It isn't always readily available to the plants because it is held tightly in acidic and low organic, heavy clay, content soil. Because the K is held so tightly in the soil, the additional K can be beneficial at planting but the additional K can also become bound-up in the soil and not readily available. In sandy soil the K has a tendency to leach from the soil.

Second, the nitrogen is derived from 9.4% Ammoniacal and 5.6 percent Urea. The Urea contains more salt than the Ammonical, again not bad but maybe not as good as it could be. Another point about Urea, as little as 5 lbs Urea per ACRE placed in direct contact with the seed, (cant get much more contact that soaking the seed in a solution of the stuff), has been proven to reduce grain crop yields by as much as 50%. Grass is a grain. The loss occurs because under the right conditions, dry, hot weather, the urea will gas off and actually kill the seed and even newly germinated seed or new shoots of grass. Coated urea, (such as SCU) isn't much better if used in a hydroseeder. The agitation and mixing in water has a tendency to crack or dissolve the coating leaving the seed in direct contact with the urea fertilizer. The gassing off isn't as big a problem on properly irrigated areas since the water helps carry the nitrogen down into the soil. Another point is that with the gassing off, you lose your nitrogen to the air. It is safer to use Urea if you are incorporating it into the soil. The soil will act as a buffer between the urea and seed. Gassing off can still occur but it is usually slower and less harmful to the seed.

As a side note, I have my fertilizer blended according to an average of soil samples taken around my area. My blend is not perfect for every site I seed but it is generally closer than anything I can buy off the shelf. The blend is made using 18/46/0 and 0/0/50 SOP and contain no Urea. the blend is 15/39/7 applied at the rate of 350lbs per acre. I get good germination using this blend and amounts and as Earthworker stated, the new grass responds well to followup fertilizations 3 to 4 weeks after seeding. I mostly seed fescue and other cool season grasses.
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  #44  
Old 12-13-2005, 08:52 PM
tractrpowr45 tractrpowr45 is offline
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Hi, I'm just getting into the lawn/landscaping business and I have a couple questions about hydroseeding. How many gallons of hydroseed mixture do you need per 1000 sq ft? Where do you by your bales of hydroseed mulch,
and how much do you need per gallon of water? Also, how much seed do you mix per gallon? Thanks for your input.
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  #45  
Old 12-14-2005, 12:11 AM
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muddstopper muddstopper is offline
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Good questions, but not easy to answer. Different areas of the contry require a different approach to get maximum results. Generally, the more materials you can mix in a load the larger the area you can cover. This varies from machine to machine and pump type to pump type. You can pump a heavier slurry with a machine that uses a positive displacement pump such as the Bowie gear pump or Finns progressive cavity pump,(PC pumps adds mega $$$ to cost of machine). Most Finns and a lot of Bowie machines use centrifical pumps. You can mix a heavier slurry with a mechanical agitated machine than you can with a jet agitated one. Mulch rates needed also determine the amount of seed, fert, and other materials you need to add to your hydroseeder. A good starting point for your mulch rate would be to try for around 1500lbs of mulch per acre. One 50lb bale will cover 1452 sqft at the 1500lb per acre rate. Northern folks might use a little less mulch and Southern folks a little more, but 1500lbs per acre sort of puts you in the middle ground for a starting point.
I use 200lbs in my 600gal capacity machine. Because of the mulch and other material I add, I can only get 500gal of water in the machine. This means I am mixing about 40lbs of mulch per 100 gal of water. The machine will handle a thicker slurry but I have less problems with these ratios so I stick to them. You can apply any mulch rate with any type of machine, it depends on your application technique. I can mix 50lb of mulch in 1000 gals of water and still apply a 3000lb per acre rate, might be a little muddy when I get done and is certainly more time consuming, but the point is dont get hung up on the mixing capacity of the machine as much as the efficiency and cost effectivness.
200lbs is 4 bales of mulch, 4 x 1452 = 5808 sqft total coverage area at the 1500lb per acre rate. At this rate it would take about 7 1/2 loads to do an acre. Figure the correct amount of fertilizer, seed and lime to do that acre and divide that by 7.5 and thats how much you should add to your tankloads.
You can visit the mulch manufacturers websites and find dealers close to you. Lesco and Ewing Irrigation are a couple of distributors with a lot of stores nationwide. You can also find suppliers by simply asking whoever you purchase a machine from. More info can be found at http://www.hydroseeding.org/. You will also find a very active forum, (well its a little slow now because of the time of year), there that is dedicated to hydroseeding.

Administrators, if you feel you must edit out the link please leave the rest of the post
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  #46  
Old 12-15-2005, 04:24 PM
tractrpowr45 tractrpowr45 is offline
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building a hydroseeder

Thanks for your info, Muddstopper. I appreciate your time to answer my question. This might be a dumb question, but is it possible to build your own hydroseeder. I would assume that you need a pump, tank, hose, and fittings. I would like to do new lawn installs without subbing out the hydroseeding, but I don't want to spend a ton of money on a hydroseeder because I'm just getting into the business. I could probably find a tank pretty easily; what size pump would I need? Any opinions or advice appreciated.
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  #47  
Old 12-15-2005, 10:21 PM
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impactlandscaping impactlandscaping is offline
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Buy one...there is too much learning curve to just throwing one together. The correct pump type, GPM, PSI, fitting placement is too much headache to deal with...unless you have a degree in engineering, lol.. It's a lot simpler to purchase one, even if it's used, than to try the monumental task of building and constantly tweaking and changing something. I have seen 300 gallon jet units sell locally and on the net for as little as 1500.00. Once you make some $$ with a used machine,(and some experience with seeding) buy new.That's my .02
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  #48  
Old 12-15-2005, 11:05 PM
tractrpowr45 tractrpowr45 is offline
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Where do hydroseed operators refill the tank. Let's say you have a job that requires 800 gallons of liquid, and your machine only has a 300 gallon capacity. Where do you get a quick refill during the job, a fire hydrant?
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  #49  
Old 12-15-2005, 11:33 PM
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impactlandscaping impactlandscaping is offline
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Our primary machine is a 300 gallon unit. I carry a nurse tank on the flatbed that holds almost 300 gallons. If I am at a residential, and have to fill from a garden hose, I leave it run into the nurse tank, then use a 15000GPH transfer pump to fill the seeder. If we have the luxury of filling from a pond or lake, I can fill the machine with water in about 1-2 minutes. I always try to go to the job with my first tank loaded, and start filling the nurse tank immediately as soon as I am on site. Our local water board did away with meter rentals for tapping onto hydrants about 5 years ago. You can still fill up at the local water pumping station for about $2 per 1000K gallons.
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  #50  
Old 12-16-2005, 03:20 PM
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muddstopper muddstopper is offline
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building a jet machine isnt as hard as it might seem. Most materials can be found at the local farmers co-op and plumbing suppliers. The expensive parts are the tank and the engine/pump combo. Most of the little 5hp trash pumps dont work that well so you need to find something with more hp. I almost burnt up my 5hp honda pump just trying to pump a slurry out of one machine that had broken down and that slurry was already mixed. Used machines are for sale all over the internet, jet and mechanical ones of all different sizes. By the time you figure your cost in parts and materials you can probably by a used one just as cheap. Even if you build one you still have to buy hose and nozzles to make it work and these should come with a used machine.

Refilling out of the customers garden hose is one source of water. I never liked that approach because most outside spicketts wont supply enough water to fill as fast as i can spray a load out. A nurse tank helps because you can just stick the hose in it and let it run while you are empting your hydroseeder. I usually fill from ponds and streams, I have a nurse tank mounted on a seperate truck. I just send the truck after a load of water while I am seeding. The nurse tank is usually back by the time I empty the seeder. I have also used my larger hydroseeder as a nurse tank for the smaller machine. It will hold enough water for two tank loads in the smaller machine. I only do this when I am seeding areas i am afraid to take the bigger machine into. I have used the smaller seeder and nurse tank to feed the larger machine to, but requires an extra driver so that doesnt happen much. I always go to a job with the hydroseeder full and the nurse tank as well, if the job requires more than one load. If a creek or stream is close, I wont use a nurse tank, I just unhook the hoses and take the machine to the water. I can adverage 2-600gal loads an hour this way.
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